dorox: Hello striktlymi, did youget my pm?

Yes! I responded! You can send your message now.

striktlymi: Evening peeps,

I have been doing quite a bit of thinking and meditations if you like but still I am at a dilemma. If we are capable of committing sin here on Earth, why then can't we be capable of sinning in heaven?

I guess the answer that might jump right out would be 'free-will'...but again it can be argued that since Lucifer was able to sin in heaven then it is probable that we might just be able to sin too.

If we think that it is impossible to sin in heaven then the question I ask everyone is: Why was Lucifer able to sin?

yes I believe it is possible for us to sin in heaven but I doubt if anyone who eventually make it to heaven would want to try such a thing knowing what fate awaits him.

mazaje:
Why did christ come into the world according to christian theology? Was it to defeat satan or not?. . .How has satan been defeated, since he still remains strong as you have just stated?. . .

2defeat satan and d world(d evil in it).d whole world will see the glory of God.wait til d tym comes,dead or alive it wud be made visible 2all.one thg i knw is dat d truth will prevail,u have ur version of d truth and i have mine,we all have ours.we wait...shalom!

sylve11:

first of all, what do u understand by the word heaven?

Why don't you humour me with what you think heaven is?

musKeeto:

Hmm.. I remember asking a similar question on another thread. Following.

Logicboy03: Following

Following for good reasons I hope...

mazaje: Someone has now started wearing his thinking cap and not accepting stories without reasoning. . .Satan sinning and being thrown out of heaven is nothing different from how the tortoise got lines all over its back story we were told as kids in primary school. . .

Lol!!!

My thinking cap has always been on...I even go to bed with it

I shyt you not when I tell you that Sacred scriptures is not exactly what you think it is.

striktlymi:

Yes! I responded! You can send your message now.

How do i send a message across to you

i.chuka:

Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become CONFORMED to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
New International Version (©2011)2 Corinthians 3:18
And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being TRANSFORMED into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
When we have been fully conformed/transformed to His Being how can sin be found in us?...Jhn14:30

I believe firmly in the passages above but the question begs to be asked: Are the passages referring to the life after or the life after one has accepted Christ here on Earth?

Considering that Peter after being born again in Christ, was found wanting still be Paul...in order words, he might be said to have sinned after accepting Christ...how do you reconcile this with the passages above?

dorox:
How do i send a message across to you

I guess you can use the message system in my profile.

k2039: There will be a new heaven, not the old one. Rev 21-22

New heaven? You mean one different from the one Lucifer found himself? But really, is committing sin about the place? Do you believe that sin cannot be committed in this new heaven?

striktlymi:

I guess you can use the message system in my profile.

It doesn't allow me to type a message.

dorox:
How do i send a message across to you

Dorox you can use sstriktlymi@yahoo.co.uk

Missonas: Jesus changed all that.He was able to defeat the devil in human form and so we free from sinning here and after if we work hard at it

Hmmm...I understand it when a Christian works hard here on Earth to avoid sin but does this same Christian need to work hard to avoid sin when in heaven?

If it is about working hard to avoid sin, does this mean that those who will eventually make heaven will still get tempted to commit sin?

Mr anony: ...for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure...
Phil 2:13

Does this apply to both the life we have now and the life after?

striktlymi:
Does this apply to both the life we have now and the life after?

can you think of any reason scripturally why it shouldn't apply to the life after?

striktlymi:

Dorox you can use sstriktlymi@yahoo.co.uk

Just sent you a mail.

Mr anony:
can you think of any reason scripturally why it shouldn't apply to the life after?

The only case I can think of right now would be that of Lucifer....he was with God in heaven but still had the ability to sin. Are we saying that that part of sacred scriptures is only relevant for man and not angels?

Another question I might add would be that, if Lucifer was able to sin what assurance do we have that Angel Michael, Raphael and Gabriel would not do the same some time after?

You do believe that man will continue having free-will in the life after...I still do not understand how man can have free-will and still not have the capacity for sin.

dorox:

Just sent you a mail.

I have seen it and responded.

striktlymi:
Hmmm...I understand it when a Christian works hard here on Earth to avoid sin but does this same Christian need to work hard to avoid sin when in heaven?

If it is about working hard to avoid sin, does this mean that those who will eventually make heaven will still get tempted to commit sin?

Well i dnt knw much abt heaven until i get there *life's wish*bt i believe dat everythg unGodly ends here on earth.the bible made us undrstnd dat when u mke it through, it means u have been redeemed!everlasting glory!!who or what wud probably want to lead u 2seen in such a beautiful place?

Missonas:

Well i dnt knw much abt heaven until i get there *life's wish*bt i believe dat everythg unGodly ends here on earth.the bible made us undrstnd dat when u mke it through, it means u have been redeemed!everlasting glory!!

I believe the bold...

Missonas:
who or what wud probably want to lead u 2seen in such a beautiful place?

But Lucifer sinned despite the beauty and splendour of heaven.

striktlymi:

The only case I can think of right now would be that of Lucifer....he was with God in heaven but still had the ability to sin. Are we saying that that part of sacred scriptures is only relevant for man and not angels?

Another question I might add would be that, if Lucifer was able to sin what assurance do we have that Angel Michael, Raphael and Gabriel would not do the same some time after?

You do believe that man will continue having free-will in the life after...I still do not understand how man can have free-will and still not have the capacity for sin.

Yes, the bible was written thousands of years ago, so how does one know whether other angels have not joined the satanic alliance? I once replied a pastor asking for my stand on making heaven, "if I was opportuned to be among the 'sheep', I would request God disintegrated my whatever form I had then." He asked my reason, I did not give him a reply. This topic was my reason, fearing a repeat of the satanic feat.
Going with the bible, satan's sin was different from the other angels' stains. While satan is roaming the world with his colleagues: humans and some fallen angels, some fallen angels or demons are locked up in nether prisons, waiting for the day they, satan and his other demons, and a part of mankind who thought the gospel of Jesus was a joke, would be,given their punishment in the lake of fire.
Loyalty. Whether God decides to make us robots or still continue with His freewill approach, man would have finally, loyally too, found the answer to Joshua's command to Isreal of old: "Choose you today whom to serve." Seeing all the past consequences that come with turning against God, reaping those present gains that goes with serving Him, that new set of mankind will serve God wholeheartedly. Afterall they fought the good fight and won.
Off topic or new topic, I think not every 'sheep' will make heaven, this world was created was created for a purpose. If not that our first parents erred...

striktlymi:

The only case I can think of right now would be that of Lucifer....he was with God in heaven but still had the ability to sin. Are we saying that that part of sacred scriptures is only relevant for man and not angels?

Another question I might add would be that, if Lucifer was able to sin what assurance do we have that Angel Michael, Raphael and Gabriel would not do the same some time after?

You do believe that man will continue having free-will in the life after...I still do not understand how man can have free-will and still not have the capacity for sin.

Hmm, the reply I would give might be quite long. Permit me to come back to this at a later time

Mr anony:
Hmm, the reply I would give might be quite long. Permit me to come back to this at a later time

Morning Mr Anony,

I can wait for a response...there is no hurry.

I think the best answer I can give is linked to Gods only Son(Jesus) coming to the earth and be tested.....Jesus did not waver in his integrity to GOD and so set a precedent for all others(angels and prospective heaven goers)......

Satan wanted worship and so developed a presumptuous spirit and was ousted.......Jesus' fine perfect example of obedience and subordinacy for all eternity should solve that proplem of one sinning in heaven...........

I try??........

Mr anony:
The person becomes transformed, filled with the Holy Spirit with new desires and conformed to God's righteous nature.

Such people still go off line and break their god's laws and commandements. . .Are y our born again?. . .Do you sometimes violate your god's laws. . .I am puting it to you that the answer is YES. . .By the way if satan and his demon who were former angels created in your god's righteous nature could rebel against him in his holy place, why won't humans do the same. . .Humans with free will that are even worse off than angles according to the narative. . . .

Missonas:

2defeat satan and d world(d evil in it).d whole world will see the glory of God.wait til d tym comes,dead or alive it wud be made visible 2all.one thg i knw is dat d truth will prevail,u have ur version of d truth and i have mine,we all have ours.we wait...shalom!

Your truth never manifest its self only when people die, eh. . ."truth" indeed. . .

striktlymi:

Lol!!!

My thinking cap has always been on...I even go to bed with it

I shyt you not when I tell you that Sacred scriptures is not exactly what you think it is.

Sacred scriptures are exactly what they are..the works of men that is why you see the endless confusion and very different interpretations of it. . .

ijawkid: I think the best answer I can give is linked to Gods only Son(Jesus) coming to the earth and be tested.....Jesus did not waver in his integrity to GOD and so set a precedent for all others(angels and prospective heaven goers)......

Satan wanted worship and so developed a presumptuous spirit and was ousted.......Jesus' fine perfect example of obedience and subordinacy for all eternity should solve that proplem of one sinning in heaven...........

I try??........

You no try, you sef know. . .Speak am for Ijaw maybe we will under stand you better. . .

mazaje:

You no try, you sef know. . .Speak am for Ijaw maybe we will under stand you better. . .

Lol.......

At least people for heaven no go say God dey play partia.......him firstborn don experience a share of temptation.......

So I see no reason why anyone would want to be presumptuous in heaven...no way.....!!!!.....

There would be absolute unity and not disorderliness......

ijawkid:

Lol.......

At least people for heaven no go say God dey play partia.......him firstborn don experience a share of temptation.......

[b]So I see no reason why anyone would want to be presumptuous [/b]in heaven...no way.....!!!!.....

There would be absolute unity and not disorderliness......

There would be freewill, and I go like commot Yahweh for im throne.. either that or heaven would be like North Korea...

ijawkid:

Lol.......

At least people for heaven no go say God dey play partia.......him firstborn don experience a share of temptation.......

So I see no reason why anyone would want to be presumptuous in heaven...no way.....!!!!.....

There would be absolute unity and not disorderliness......

because Ijaw kid don declare am for Ijaw?. . .We are told that a war once broke our there, some claim that angles don't have free will like humans do. . .if angles can rebel in heaven which we are tld is a place without sin, what about humans that are sinful by nature?. . .Humans can use their free will not to worship god in heaven and disobey him for example. . .

whatofyou:
Yes, the bible was written thousands of years ago, so how does one know whether other angels have not joined the satanic alliance? I once replied a pastor asking for my stand on making heaven, "if I was opportuned to be among the 'sheep', I would request God disintegrated my whatever form I had then." He asked my reason, I did not give him a reply. This topic was my reason, fearing a repeat of the satanic feat.
Going with the bible, satan's sin was different from the other angels' stains. While satan is roaming the world with his colleagues: humans and some fallen angels, some fallen angels or demons are locked up in nether prisons, waiting for the day they, satan and his other demons, and a part of mankind who thought the gospel of Jesus was a joke, would be,given their punishment in the lake of fire.
Loyalty. Whether God decides to make us robots or still continue with His freewill approach, man would have finally, loyally too, found the answer to Joshua's command to Isreal of old: "Choose you today whom to serve." Seeing all the past consequences that come with turning against God, reaping those present gains that goes with serving Him, that new set of mankind will serve God wholeheartedly. Afterall they fought the good fight and won.
Off topic or new topic, I think not every 'sheep' will make heaven, this world was created was created for a purpose. If not that our first parents erred...

I have been thinking about what you have up there and if I am correct...the summary is that if eventually you make it to heaven, you would choose to align your will completely to that of God by asking him to remove your capacity to be rebellious?

If the above is what you are saying then would I be correct to say that you hold the belief that in heaven there won't be the freedom to sin? In order words, free-will will become limited to only what is pleasing to God?