ijawkid: I think the best answer I can give is linked to Gods only Son(Jesus) coming to the earth and be tested.....Jesus did not waver in his integrity to GOD and so set a precedent for all others(angels and prospective heaven goers)......

ijawkid:
Satan wanted worship and so developed a presumptuous spirit and was ousted.......Jesus' fine perfect example of obedience and subordinacy for all eternity should solve that proplem of one sinning in heaven...........

ijawkid:
I try??........

striktlymi:
But Lucifer sinned despite the beauty and splendour of heaven.

mazaje:

Sacred scriptures are exactly what they are..the works of men that is why you see the endless confusion and very different interpretations of it. . .

mazaje:
Your truth never manifest its self only when people die, eh. . ."truth" indeed. . .

striktlymi:

I have studied Sacred scriptures and I do not see any confusion...all I see are men misinterpreting and misrepresenting what is written in Sacred scriptures.

Missonas:

Everything happened as God wanted to.1 cor 10:13.'GOD is faithful,He will not let you be tempted beyond what u can bear' bro i believe this statement is applicable to heaven as well.

Missonas:
God allowed all these to happen for jst as He disciplines His sons and saves them,He makes advanges out of disadvantages,theres a part in d bible that explains this i'l luk it up latr.

Missonas:
Luk at it this way,wat if d devil had nt sinned?then there wud have been no reasn for God's future glory.

mazaje:

To claim that the bible is not confusing is to just lie outrightly. . . .The bible is very confusing that is why those that read it get confused and disagree with each other all the time. . .How do you know that people are misinterpretening or mis representing what ws written. . .On whose or what standard are you measuring these things?. . .

Missonas: Jesus changed all that.He was able to defeat the devil in human form and so we free from sinning here and after if we work hard at it

striktlymi:

I have been thinking about what you have up there and if I am correct...the summary is that if eventually you make it to heaven, you would choose to align your will completely to that of God by asking him to remove your capacity to be rebellious?

If the above is what you are saying then would I be correct to say that you hold the belief that in heaven there won't be the freedom to sin? In order words, free-will will become limited to only what is pleasing to God?

striktlymi:

When you used the word 'confusing', I took it that you meant that Sacred scriptures was 'mixed indiscriminately' and this might not be far from what you meant as against it being difficult to understand...

whatofyou:
No. What I was saying is that used to be my old fear till I fell on this topic. By disintegration I mean that I should become non-existent. That is, if I make heaven I would like to decide by myself whether to be in heaven, enjoy the new life or stop existing because of my old fear that the satanic cycle might repeat itself.

whatofyou:
Nevertheless, so many things are creeping outta my mind since I set eyes on this topic.

mazaje:

When I say confusing, I mean that in one place the bible says one thing and in another it says something completely different. . .Example in some places, it says only the wicked and the guilty shall suffer here on earth, while in some places it says only the righteous will suffer here on earth. . . .There are so many such contradictions in the bible. . .

striktlymi:

Sacred scriptures seems to be contradictory but after going through the so called contradictions myself, I discovered that what we have basically are people misunderstanding it.

mazaje:

We will always disgree on that. . .

striktlymi:

I guess so...I really have no ish if we disagree but all I ask is that we are sincere in our disagreements.

I understand how someone can see contradictions in Sacred scriptures...I try as much as possible to look at each argument from both sides of the divide...

Even in cases where the Quran had been accused of propagating some very terrible teachings, I have come to the conclusion that those who say this basically do so out of misunderstanding...

Some of these misunderstandings are sincere but others sadly are not...if we must disagree I will like it to be very sincere and devoid of any sentiments...though difficult.

striktlymi:
Some of these misunderstandings are sincere but others sadly are not...if we must disagree I will like it to be very sincere and devoid of any sentiments...though difficult.

musKeeto:
Ah, the non-olodoist striktlymi shows up on Sunday.. lmao.. oya, go do penance..

Nice one sha..

striktlymi:

I believe Jesus is the ideal model and he accomplished a lot by his coming, death and resurrection but do we say that until he came, Angels like Michael still had the capacity to be rebellious?

striktlymi:

Do those who finally make heaven have the freedom to choose whether to follow the example of Christ or not? Or at least would they have the capacity to say NO?

striktlymi:

The bold still brings us to the same ish...if Lucifer can want worship, what stops Michael or any other person who makes heaven from wanting worship along the line? Eternity is indeed a very long time and it is said that change is the only constant thing...

striktlymi:

If we have the right to choose between following the precedence of Christ or not, won't it be possible that we just might decide not to follow it at some point if we make heaven?

striktlymi:

Or is it that like Lucifer who got punished for his disobedience, judgment will be swift in heaven...anyone who commits sin will be sent out?

striktlymi:

If this is so, then can we not say that the promise of Eternal life is partial to the extent that one only make heaven and continue to be in heaven if and only if he continues to be good on Earth and in heaven?

striktlymi:


Yes you did

ijawkid:
God has already done the seperation process......the war in heaven has jettisoned all rebels and God knows that the remaining ones(his spirit sons) who have stood faithful all through satans gra gra in heaven would stick to God for all eternity..........even the other angels in heaven underwent serious temptations from satan.......

All angels and Jesus himself have all been tempted and those who have passed that test are meant to stay for all eternity....
I don't envisage another renegade squad in heaven after Christ must have handed over rulership to God the Father........


Those who make heaven have already here on earth chosen to follow Christ and have been tested,some even to the point of death......if on earth with all the weaknesses they summounted temptations or fought against the rebellious spirit they would never waver in heaven......

They would never say NO......No way!!!...


angels who had stayed steadfast for aeons of years through out satans rebellion would never and can never be presumpteous....like I said earlier,everyone(the almighty excepted) has faced satans temptations.......they've all been tested and those who scaled through are trusted.....

Lol....NO way.....all those who remain in heaven are refined........No going back....


Lol........no one would go on disobeying......those days of disobedience would be a thing of the past......remember every servant of God has learned obedience in one way or the other.......refinement!!!......they are no longer Just created beings,but rather refined ones.......




I even forgot to add that those on the new earth would also be persons who have been refined..........



Did I try again.....

wazobia_for_u:
Please don't turn the logical reasoning question. How could Satan be able to sin heaven? If you all get to heaven and someone sin again will the person also tag as Satan or what?

striktlymi:

I believe Jesus is the ideal model and he accomplished a lot by his coming, death and resurrection but do we say that until he came, Angels like Michael still had the capacity to be rebellious?

Do those who finally make heaven have the freedom to choose whether to follow the example of Christ or not? Or at least would they have the capacity to say NO?



The bold still brings us to the same ish...if Lucifer can want worship, what stops Michael or any other person who makes heaven from wanting worship along the line? Eternity is indeed a very long time and it is said that change is the only constant thing...

If we have the right to choose between following the precedence of Christ or not, won't it be possible that we just might decide not to follow it at some point if we make heaven?

Or is it that like Lucifer who got punished for his disobedience, judgment will be swift in heaven...anyone who commits sin will be sent out?

If this is so, then can we not say that the promise of Eternal life is partial to the extent that one only make heaven and continue to be in heaven if and only if he continues to be good on Earth and in heaven?




Yes you did

striktlymi:

I have studied Sacred scriptures and I do not see any confusion...all I see are men misinterpreting and misrepresenting what is written in Sacred scriptures.

ijawkid:
God has already done the seperation process......the war in heaven has jettisoned all rebels and God knows that the remaining ones(his spirit sons) who have stood faithful all through satans gra gra in heaven would stick to God for all eternity..........even the other angels in heaven underwent serious temptations from satan.......

All angels and Jesus himself have all been tempted and those who have passed that test are meant to stay for all eternity....
I don't envisage another renegade squad in heaven after Christ must have handed over rulership to God the Father........

ijawkid:
Those who make heaven have already here on earth chosen to follow Christ and have been tested,some even to the point of death......if on earth with all the weaknesses they summounted temptations or fought against the rebellious spirit they would never waver in heaven......

They would never say NO......No way!!!...

ijawkid:
angels who had stayed steadfast for aeons of years through out satans rebellion would never and can never be presumpteous....like I said earlier,everyone(the almighty excepted) has faced satans temptations.......they've all been tested and those who scaled through are trusted.....

ijawkid:
Lol....NO way.....all those who remain in heaven are refined........No going back....


Lol........no one would go on disobeying......those days of disobedience would be a thing of the past......remember every servant of God has learned obedience in one way or the other.......refinement!!!......they are no longer Just created beings,but rather refined ones.......


I even forgot to add that those on the new earth would also be persons who have been refined..........

ijawkid:
Did I try again.....

striktlymi:

You do not believe anyone would commit sin in heaven...I believe this too but the question remains: will God allow our free-will, knowing full well that with free-will the capacity to commit sin is always there?

striktlymi:

Disobedience is not an option? Will this be as a result of a 'partial free-will' or we still have the capacity to choose between good and evil but decide to choose good for all eternity?

striktlymi:

Note too that a good man according to Sacred scriptures is capable of committing sin seven times a day.

striktlymi:

But still we are talking about Eternity...will trust be enough to keep someone from committing sin if he wants to?

striktlymi:

Does being refined mean being without the capacity to commit sin?

whatofyou:
At striktlymi, too much thuggish music I listen to. I meant my eyes are opening the more.

whatofyou:
Back to the topic, let us see this topik from another angle, the angle of the present world being a test ground.

whatofyou:
Before I proceed, let me present this to the house: Was the satanic rebellion before God created the garden of Eden and man or after.

whatofyou:
If the rebellion was before man got moulded, then I see the the Job's scenario playing out. It seems the real reason why the tree of life was finally put in the garden could have been satan challenged that man will only worship God if man didn't see something better, had everything going for him positively, just like was in Job's case.
Adam, unlike Job, failed his test. Had it been Adam passed his test, a time will come when the trees would have been uprooted and taken out of the garden, and satan punished alone for his sins.

whatofyou:
This leads to one of my best scriptural statements: Many are called but few are chosen. This statement is beginning to form a new meaning for me. After the destruction of the present world the FEW will be chosen from the many, saved because they are sheep in Jesus' flock.
Those who make it to the new world and heaven will not fail like Adam did his test. Like Job, they passed once and for all, and tested shall they never be again! All the things that forced us into sin in their former lifes would be gone: sex, fear, poverty, inequality, malnourishment and starvation, death, sickness et c. Nobody can defeat God. Moreover, seeing the punishment granted the sinful ones, man has no option than be loyal. God is God, who can battle him and prevail. My people say "anaghi arapu ebe a n'echi ozo jebe ebe a n'aro agwu."
I do not know whether he has "eaten the fruit." Anyways, just my assumptions.

Missonas: If we can scale through d temptations on earth then dat of heaven should be a piece of cake.lol.aiye yi le gan!

plaetton:

Just to respond to the bolded , I dont know where you get your facts from. But I think Jesus, even if the stories are true, accomplished less than zero.
He definitely left the world a far worse, much more rancurous place than he met.
The reasons are obviously the fact his teachings were subverted and perverted to create a mind-enslaving religion- the very opposite of what he sought to do.

plaetton:

If people are habitually misinterpreting and misrepresenting what is written, then how can you still say, in the very same sentence , that the bible is not confusing?
It is very confusing , and that is why it is open to many many conflicting interpretations. Not so?

striktlymi:

When you used the word 'confusing', I took it that you meant that Sacred scriptures was 'mixed indiscriminately' and this might not be far from what you meant as against it being difficult to understand...

ijawkid:
well I think the best question you should ask is:::::: can Jesus one day sin against God??....

ijawkid:
There would be no evil to even choose.....there woud be just one option....doing good and obeying the Father.........

That's an imperfect man bro....imagine a man who was once imperfect,in that state of imperfection he stuck to doing the will of God and his Son,later on that person is rewarded with eternal life and made perfect,please tell me how can such man think of sin.......


Yep if you ask me....these tested and trusted individuals have shown beyond reasonable doubt that they are ready to obey God for all eternity......that is why the struggle for life eternal is not one easy one....it is arduous....


I would have to agree...one who has been refined is made extra strong and dogged in his service to God.....the thought of rebellion would not even come up into the minds of such ones because they've worked so hard to win that prize........

Mr anony:
The person becomes transformed, filled with the Holy Spirit with new desires and conformed to God's righteous nature.