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If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? - Religion (5) - Nairaland

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If Lucifer Is The "Bringer Of Light",...why Then Is He The Bad One ? / Who Sinned First, Satan Or Adam ? / If Lucifer ............ Then Who?? (2) (3) (4)

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Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Mranony: 11:01am On Jun 15, 2013
striktlymi:

Good morning Anony,

Thanks for keeping your promise...I guess I would have bugged you about it but didn't cause I followed that thread for a while and a lot of the questions I had were answered on that thread which proved to be quite insightful after the 'run around' with Thehomy.

Now, the only question that is left unanswered is: Why did the 'morning star' (Lucifer) commit sin? Image has provided an interesting perspective to the discourse....he believes that Lucifer did not sin in heaven but somewhere outside the divine majesty's abode i.e not inside heaven.

I was not satisfied with Image's perspective for two reasons: Angels live in heaven before the great battle and it was stated categorically in the book of Revelations that the 'battle' took place in heaven...

You and the others have provided plausible explanations to why man will not sin when he makes heaven i.e the flesh that is prone to sin will be discarded and the glorified body will be God's gift to man.

This is understandable in the sense that the flesh is Earthly and so is its desires while the glorified body is heavenly and so will be its desires.

But in the case of Angels there is no flesh to lead them to sin but Lucifer sinned all the same. What assurance do we have that what happened to Lucifer will not happen to some other Angel sometime in the future?

Sorry I decided to go back to my former id
It's good to have you back. The argument I'll make here is that we as humans are not the same kind of being as angels. I'll link you to an article here:

http://www.learnthebible.org/the-free-will-of-angels.html

Give it a read and let us discuss further.
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Nobody: 11:39am On Jun 15, 2013
Mr anony:
It's good to have you back. The argument I'll make here is that we as humans are not the same kind of being as angels. I'll link you to an article here:

http://www.learnthebible.org/the-free-will-of-angels.html

Give it a read and let us discuss further.

It's quite an interesting read...

The underlying theme of the article for me is basically that Angels were created good but still have a choice to decide whether they remain all good or delve into the depth of badness.

According to the article there is nothing like being partially good or bad for Angels, just like it is for man because of the dictates of the flesh. An Angel becomes all good if it chooses to be good and all bad if it decides to be bad.

Though I still do not get what is meant by an Angel going below it's 'Estate' and 'habitat' as revealed in Jude's letter but I see two possible scenarios to this: 1) Some Angels chose to leave heaven for probably a place like Earth as revealed in Sacred scriptures; and 2) The Angels decision to disobey God, hence prompting the dismissal from it's abode.

Now, one thing the article failed to reveal is whether or not an Angel who chooses to be good, still has the capacity to say NO to God some time in the future.

Maybe I am missing the point you are trying to bring out here.
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Mranony: 12:13pm On Jun 15, 2013
striktlymi:

It's quite an interesting read...

The underlying theme of the article for me is basically that Angels were created good but still have a choice to decide whether they remain all good or delve into the depth of badness.

According to the article there is nothing like being partially good or bad for Angels, just like it is for man because of the dictates of the flesh. An Angel becomes all good if it chooses to be good and all bad if it decides to be bad.

Though I still do not get what is meant by an Angel going below it's 'Estate' and 'habitat' as revealed in Jude's letter but I see two possible scenarios to this: 1) Some Angels chose to leave heaven for probably a place like Earth as revealed in Sacred scriptures; and 2) The Angels decision to disobey God, hence prompting the dismissal from it's abode.

Now, one thing the article failed to reveal is whether or not an Angel who chooses to be good, still has the capacity to say NO to God some time in the future.

Maybe I am missing the point you are trying to bring out here.
I'm afraid I am unable to answer the question in bold. It is beyond my knowledge
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Nobody: 12:19pm On Jun 15, 2013
Mr anony:
I'm afraid I am unable to answer the question in bold. It is beyond my knowledge

Okay, cool!


Thanks!
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by MrTroll(m): 12:42pm On Jun 15, 2013
Mr anony:
I'm afraid I am unable to answer the question in bold. It is beyond my knowledge
really? shocked
Thehomer needs to see this!!!
*searching* where's that thread about heaven oOoº°˚ ˚°ºoOo !
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Nobody: 1:53pm On Jun 15, 2013
Mr Troll: really? shocked
Thehomer needs to see this!!!
*searching* where's that thread about heaven oOoº°˚ ˚°ºoOo !

Can you go troll somewhere else?

You guys are becoming very suspicious by the day.


I wonder if there is one true Atheist on nairaland.

Everything seem to be one big sham!

I just might put up a thread on this one of these days.
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by MrTroll(m): 2:33pm On Jun 15, 2013
striktlymi:

Can you go troll somewhere else?

You guys are becoming very suspicious by the day.


I wonder if there is one true Atheist on nairaland.

Everything seem to be one big sham!

I just might put up a thread on this one of these days.
and who told you I'm an atheist? undecided
Pls make a thread o! My bizness needs to boom cheesy
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Nobody: 3:13pm On Jun 15, 2013
Mr Troll: and who told you I'm an atheist? undecided
Pls make a thread o! My bizness needs to boom cheesy

LWKMD!!!

Instincts man..Instincts...

...and my instincts are yet to let me down.


I suspect you are musky but after some events, I have reasons to suspect other persons as well...including Thehomy, though he seems 'clean'.


Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by cashflowpc(m): 4:01pm On Jun 15, 2013
Mr anony: 
I'm afraid I am unable to answer the question in bold. It is beyond my knowledge



The question in bold was actually the initial question. It was just asked in another way.

It's obvious, there is no reasonable answer to your question strictklymi...All that has attempted to answer you were just beating around the bush! 

Religion is pure dogma and you must know that the mind is one powerful tool, it will make you experience whatever you have chosen to believe and such experiences will futher strengthen your beliefs!

Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Nobody: 4:07pm On Jun 15, 2013
cashflowpc: 


The question in bold was actually the initial question. It was just asked in another way.

It's obvious, there is no reasonable answer to your question strictklymi...All that has attempted to answer you were just beating around the bush! 

Religion is pure dogma and you must know that the mind is one powerful tool, it will make you experience whatever you have chosen to believe and such experiences will futher strengthens your beliefs!


Thanks cash but the bold is the reverse in my case...my experience is the reason why I believe and still continue to believe whatever God chooses to reveal, even when I or someone else can't explain it.

I only requested for answers because I am very curious by nature but it seems I would have to wait this one out till God chooses to satisfy my curiosity.
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Mranony: 4:08pm On Jun 15, 2013
cashflowpc: 


The question in bold was actually the initial question. It was just asked in another way.

It's obvious, there is no reasonable answer to your question strictklymi...All that has attempted to answer you were just beating around the bush! 

Religion is pure dogma and you must know that the mind is one powerful tool, it will make you experience whatever you have chosen to believe and such experiences will futher strengthen your beliefs!

Actually it isn't. Stiktlymi asked about the possibility of humans sinning in Heaven. We have settled that as a No.

The second question is about the possibility of angels revolting in the future to which I have answered I don't know

Your comment about religion can apply to anything you choose to believe really. Besides, it isn't true.
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Nobody: 4:10pm On Jun 15, 2013
Mr anony:
Actually it isn't. Stiktlymi asked about the possibility of humans sinning in Heaven. We have settled that as a No.

The second question is about the possibility of angels revolting in the future to which I have answered I don't know

Yep!!!
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by MrTroll(m): 4:48pm On Jun 15, 2013
striktlymi:

LWKMD!!!

Instincts man..Instincts...

...and my instincts are yet to let me down.


I suspect you are musky but after some events, I have reasons to suspect other persons as well...including Thehomy, though he seems 'clean'.


nice pix grin

Bizness don de boom *dancing azonto ontop peeps falling over themselves trying to identify me*


*stright face* I put it to you striky that you're one more deep thought away from leaving christianity. tongue
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by MrTroll(m): 4:53pm On Jun 15, 2013
Mr anony:
Actually it isn't. Stiktlymi asked about the possibility of humans sinning in Heaven. We have settled that as a No.

The second question is about the possibility of angels revolting in the future to which I have answered I don't know

Your comment about religion can apply to anything you choose to believe really. Besides, it isn't true.
do I smell anonyism here?undecided
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Nobody: 5:15pm On Jun 15, 2013
Mr Troll: nice pix grin

Bizness don de boom *dancing azonto ontop peeps falling over themselves trying to identify me*


*stright face* I put it to you striky that you're one more deep thought away from leaving christianity. tongue


Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by MrTroll(m): 10:40pm On Jun 15, 2013
striktlymi:


nah! Most times you're an. . .



























[size=18pt]olodo!!![/size]
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Nobody: 5:12am On Jun 16, 2013
Mr Troll: nah! Most times you're an. . .



[size=18pt]olodo!!![/size]


Muskeeto, go troll somewhere else!
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by UyiIredia(m): 5:34am On Jun 16, 2013
Mr anony:
I'm afraid I am unable to answer the question in bold. It is beyond my knowledge

Any being with the ability to arbiter moral choices can arbitrate against God. What it can't do is kill God. I think it is very much within your God-given knowledge, more importantly, I suspect the implications of this question is why you claimed it's beyond your knowledge.
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by UyiIredia(m): 5:34am On Jun 16, 2013
Mr anony:
I'm afraid I am unable to answer the question in bold. It is beyond my knowledge

Any being with the ability to arbiter moral choices can arbitrate against God. What it can't do is kill God. I think it is very much within your God-given knowledge, more importantly, I suspect the implications of this question is why you claimed it's beyond your knowledge. Quite frankly, the aspect of Christianity that insists we can't understand a God who freely gave understanding is befuddling.
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by UyiIredia(m): 5:39am On Jun 16, 2013
cashflowpc: 


The question in bold was actually the initial question. It was just asked in another way.

It's obvious, there is no reasonable answer to your question strictklymi...All that has attempted to answer you were just beating around the bush! 

Religion is pure dogma and you must know that the mind is one powerful tool, it will make you experience whatever you have chosen to believe and such experiences will futher strengthen your beliefs!


Just so you know. You are being dogmatic by saying that.
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by MrTroll(m): 7:41am On Jun 16, 2013
striktlymi:


Muskeeto, go troll somewhere else!













FAIL!!!tongue
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by Mranony: 12:56pm On Jun 17, 2013
First of all, your comment is quite unrelated to what I was talking about. However it seems you are trying to force me to engage in a particular discourse so I'll oblige you and we'll see how it goes.

Uyi Iredia: Any being with the ability to arbiter moral choices can arbitrate against God.
Interesting, but on what basis?

What it can't do is kill God.
ok

I think it is very much within your God-given knowledge, more importantly, I suspect the implications of this question is why you claimed it's beyond your knowledge.
Urhm no. I simply don't know that much about angels.

Quite frankly, the aspect of Christianity that insists we can't understand a God who freely gave understanding is befuddling.
Re: If Lucifer Sinned, Why Can't We? by UyiIredia(m): 2:19pm On Jun 17, 2013
Mr anony: First of all, your comment is quite unrelated to what I was talking about. However it seems you are trying to force me to engage in a particular discourse so I'll oblige you and we'll see how it goes.

It was. The question you shied away from was whether good angels can choose to say NO to God. You answered you don't know. I pointed out beings that can choose good can do bad (or say no to God). I was hoping you would accept what I said. I think you may disagree with me.

Mr anony: Interesting, but on what basis?


My God-given intellectual capacity to imagine, invent, intuit, appreciate, contemplate etc.

Mr anony: ok


Fine then.

Mr anony: Urhm no. I simply don't know that much about angels.

Or you don't want to know that much about angels. I wonder if you've had a discussion on angels. BTW are you open to learn about angels from anyone.

Mr anony:


Should I rephrase it so you can believe it.

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