"Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! - Religion (11) - Nairaland
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| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 4:08pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: benalvino he made him self not instructed... you are finding fault from that verse  |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 4:17pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
benalvino: The bolded is the most rubbish and inconsistent answer my eyes have ever beheld...... first of all Jesus was in the form of God,he wasn't God himself or equal to the God he was in form of......I cannot be in the form of adam and claim I am adam or adams equal..... Why should Jesus come to show us the way to the Father??...why the Father...??...does this Father ring a bell in you head as the one true GOD alone??...  ....Jesus should have just shown us the way to himself and then full stop........ What surprises me is how you guys dribble yourselves into madness...... Why did Jesus amongst the 3 Gods who are co-equal choose to be the one who is humble and to be sent??... Is the Father and the holy spirit proud or what??...has Jesus stopped obeying the Father now that he is back to heaven??......has The Father stopped been superior to Jesus??.... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 4:36pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
@benalvino see obvious contradictions here in your statements; benalvino; on the issue of who decide wheather jesus was sent or he sent himself hear yourself: .......'he came to show us the way to the father', .....'he was obedient to the father', you contradict yourself again that 'he made him self not instructed' , my brother, why are you doing this to yourself, if you make this varying statements to your child, he will be pissed with you! |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 4:53pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
benalvino; he made a decision to become man let me prove this above wrong with ease; hebrews 2: 9; But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. jesus was made (who was made) to become human and taste death, it was'nt him that decides, but he accepts his fathers decision thats why while on earth before the death he said, 'father, remove this cup from me, not by my will but your will' luke 22:42 2 Likes |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 5:04pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
ijawkid:how is it rubbish? you can be biased as you want... but he emptied him self and took the form of a man. lol you don come with another excuse? read john 1:1 and stop drinking Kool-Aid. we always say he is distinct from the father. the bible says he didn't consider equality with GOD but he dropped his deity... you cant wrestle with the scriptures... Jesus come to show us the way to the father because we need salvation... to get to the father first you have to get to Jesus... now you know why Jesus is the power of GOD.. that is why you will honor the son equally as you honor the father... that last day Jesus will get all his power and authority. cause it was made for him. na you dribble your self cos u no understand GOD... Jesus call him self GOD almighty you say na lie... alpha n omega u say na lie... why him choose? na me you they ask? there is a bible verse that tells you it was because of your sin. he came to save you... if you wan know why wait when the trumpet blow you ask am... very silly questions at the end... was there anything jesus disobeyed the father or the father did same to the son? |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 5:18pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: @benalvino Philippians 2:5-11 New International Version (NIV) 5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature[b] of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross! I said it the way I see it... I did not insert those words :p he is praying to the father so what has it got to do with him making him self man? again what you people do is misunderstand the trinity... The first person of the trinity is the father... greater than the son and the 3rd is the holy spirit... 3 of them are the 1 GOD... Jesus the WORD of GOD. Jesus is an attribute of GOD... that is why he is the same nature are GOD... I did not contradict my self... if you like misunderstand simple English. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 5:21pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: and yet Philippians 2:5-11 says he made him self that way. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 5:21pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
benalvino:Emptied himself and then after he filled up himself did he stop obeying the same person who sent him??... Do you knw that from your stiff stance we can conclude it wasn't the Father who sent Jesus....abi??..... How could Jesus have considered equality with God a thing to hold on to when he isn't like satan who infact thought it not robbery to be equal with GOD.... ...That's the difference there between Jesus and satan........one was obedient and the other wanted to be viewed as GOD.. benalvino:Why did he have to come to show us to get to the Father??....why is the Father important if Jesus out of his own volition alone came to the earth??.. You said Jesus would get all the power,but behold he would still remain subject to the Father has he has always been.... You are the one confused here...please read 1 corinthians 15:24-28 if you have still not gotten any point from this discussion.. benalvino: No....I insist Jesus was only refered to as first and last in revelation....... You guys have chosen not to be able to differentiate the Father from his son and servant.... benalvino:Why na Jesus come earth??...why no be the Father come??......why na Jesus come??... And as Jesus na equal with God whi him come be son of the Father instead of mayb the brother to the Father or maybe a cousin or twin brother??...... Do you realize you are saying Jesus only came to the earth because of his own will and not because its the Fathers will??....do you realize you are spewing jargons??..... benalvino: Answer it..... Is Jesus not still under the will of his Father??...is Jesus now acting on his own originality as we speak??..... Isn't Jesus still subject to the Father??.... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 5:25pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
benalvino: Do you know Jesus' humility is obvious when it is viewed from our own lens??..... From Gods stand point Jesus was obedient..... it is like saying me obeying Jesus' commands or words is solely because I am humble,not because Jesus is my superior and has the right to lay down commands for me to adhere to......... Do you know christians are doing the will of Christ and not there own will even if there humility is 100 percent??.... We obey Jesus because he is the head of us........ Please read 1 corinthians 11:3 and adjust your thinking..... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 5:46pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
ijawkid: you and Jesus are not equal but he was equal with God... cant you understand it. he did not use it as an advantage but emptied him self. how you wan use understand am again? he is the word of GOD he is GOD. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by truthislight: 7:56pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
benalvino: ^^^ Please, is your Jesus satan ? Please answer. It seems that is what your God is, not the son of God we know. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 8:19pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
truthislight: am not who tampered with the bible and render jesus as an idol a god. if anything is u people who call jesus angel etc. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by Itsfacts: 8:24pm On Jun 16, 2013 |
truthislight: this mumu boy is here. has the watch tower finished washing your brain? 1 Like |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 1:05am On Jun 17, 2013 |
and yet Philippians 2:5-11 says he made him self that way. you lied, phillipians never said that |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by BERNIMOORE: 1:11am On Jun 17, 2013 |
@benalvino benalvino: again what you people do is misunderstand the trinity...[b] The first person of the trinity is the father... greater than the son [/b]and the 3rd is the holy spirit... 3 of them are the 1 GOD... Jesus the WORD of GOD. Jesus is an attribute of GOD... that is why he is the same nature are GOD... oh, so you (a trinitarian)believed that the father is greater than the son? but yet equal with the son, thats strange and different from other trinitarians |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 5:46am On Jun 17, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: @benalvino Could you translate the verse you said never said that? Yes the father is greater than the son but equal in nature... That is the simple truth... just like Obama is greater than you because of his office but he is not better than you cause you are him are of the same nature. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 8:10am On Jun 17, 2013 |
benalvino: Obama was voted in by people to be the president of united states....... ....and you said obama is not better than any american because he is the same nature with them...meaning Yahweh is not better than Jesus....... I am dissappointed in you for the bolded statement.......you have believed in the trinity so tey you don rub Yahweh for mud.....smh!!!!!...... This Yahweh that is supplying Jesus with revelations in heaven.......I can't believe you would make this degrading statement.... Who voted Yahweh the Father to be greater than Jesus and to even be the GOD and Father of Jesus??...who??...... I believe na all of us go for election go do the voting............ Just stick to your false stance that the Father and Jesus are co-equal to the core and that not even the Father is by anymeans greater than the son by an inch and stop bending truth to fit into lies.......... My problem is if you can finally say Yahweh is greater than Jesus why argue with Jesus in the first place when He made it clear that his Father is greater than he is...??...why  ?....it means you argued for nothing all to still agree with Jesus...are u just confused or what??Obama can be your superior for now but won't in the future when a new president is elected........ God would be and has been Jesus' superior from times past and for all eternity....... Jesus would be subject to Yahweh forever and ever and ever and ever........ Maybe you can explain which persons carried out this everlasting election...... You are just a funny trinitarian....... ......1 Like |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 8:37am On Jun 17, 2013 |
ijawkid:I didn't finally say it is what U dont get from the get go... Countless time we have told you that Jesus is the 2nd person in the trinity... The example I gave is based on office and nature and you misunderstood the whole point and start talking about election which is not the point. You acknowledge Obama is greater for now but in the future he won't which backs of my claim of the office... Because he is the very nature of me he is not better. That's a simple example that you can't understand. Smh Jesus was in the very nature of God... You call you self god aree you in same Nature as the father? Can you create? If not you just an idol there is only one God. All 3 have their role in saving man the father didn't do it alone Jesus didn't do it alone the holy spirit didn't do it alone they all have their work to do... The bolder point make real sense unless you are holden your mind to comprehend it... Show me a verse where it states the father is better than Jesus in God's form? Infact when he says he is the son of God he is claiming same nature and equal to God that is why they wanted to kill him. I know one God and you people know one God and one idol since you make Jesus idol and we will pray or Go to God through an idol... Didn't he warn people not to worship him through idol or image? What about you shall not go to any other god for salvation yet U go to another god an angel for that matter for salvation. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by true2god: 8:44am On Jun 17, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: @benalvino,When u were 'Barrister' i have knwn u, so u need to change to Bernimoore in order to start afresh in ur blind argument asking me to 'scan', 'show' proof even if all the evidence is before u. I dnt tink its wise using my limited MB on someone who's not willing to learn. Just as typical of wen u were Barrister u r asking me to 'show me the proof of apology'. I wont cos it wont make sense to u and u will use it as a basis for further blind argument which im not ready for. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by Itsfacts: 8:46am On Jun 17, 2013 |
true2god: When u were 'Barrister' i have knwn u, so u need to change to Bernimoore in order to start afresh in ur blind argument asking me to 'scan', 'show' proof even if all the evidence is before u. I dnt tink its wise using my limited MB on someone who's not willing to learn. Haha he is a JW and a barister how will they let him. We all know lawyers are liars |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by true2god: 9:12am On Jun 17, 2013 |
Ok to put it on a simpler perspective, (Ijawkid, Bernimoore, truthislight) can Jesus be worshipped? |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 9:55am On Jun 17, 2013 |
true2god: Ok to put it on a simpler perspective, (Ijawkid, Bernimoore, truthislight) can Jesus be worshipped?You want ijawkid to define worship for you here... Or talk about exclusive worship that doesn't exist lol |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by Nobody: 10:12am On Jun 17, 2013 |
ijawkid:you pple love to quote this scripture without even understanding what the scripture is actually saying. Jesus is not inferior to Jehovah; They are equal. But for the purpose of salvation, He submitted Himself to a position in which He could fulfill the requirements of salvation and the scripture you quoted explained it very well in the sense that a woman isn't any less than her husband, they are equal before God; however, for God's purposes, it is her position to submit. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 10:20am On Jun 17, 2013 |
benalvino:So who made Yahwehs office higher than that of Jesus??....how did come about that Yahwehs office is greater than that of Jesus??....who made appointments ...who arranged that headship arrangement??.....What I see here is one who does not even understand the trinity he believes in... benalvino:Would the Father ever change his office??....obama would stop being president in the next 3 yrs,...would Yahweh stop being the head of Jesus anytime soon??.... And who tells you obama isn't better than you??....he is older than you...has got more experience than you...he is more knowledgeable than you...he existed before you...he has authority over you...he is more powerful than you...... How can you say obama is not by far better than you??..... benalvino: What example??...an example that squashes your doctrine to the ground... benalvino:Amongst Gods there are ranks bro.... I must not be able to create to be called GOD by GOD himself.... All those called Gods do not have equal abilities and strenght........ Like I said earlier which none of you could dispute,there is not a single thing Jesus can do or what ever knowledge or power he possesses that wasn't given to him by the Father.......I lie??... benalvino:But they all did the Fathers will..right or wrong??.... They all coincidentally acceded to the Fathers authority for some bizzare reasons??....... Are we not all playing a role in Gods purpose as well......??. Are we not??...how does that make us equal with our God and Father??.. benalvino:Cheiii.......I am finished..... You are just so pathetic.... Please if Jesus is as good as his Father what is he receiving revelations from,from the Father for??..... What is he doing the Fathers bidding for??...why is the Father still his GOD...why is Jesus still doing his Fathers will In heaven??....why??......why is he the high priest of God in heaven acting as a go-between between God and man if he is as good as his GOD?? Have you been smoking ciggerates recently or you just want to be blind...... You are asking how one who elevated another person is better than the person he elevated and gave authority??..... You are sick...go to the hospital??... benalvino: The Father sent his son and appointed him as saviour to rescue his people...Yahweh has not done anything wrong by sending a represntative to do that......he has always done that to save his people...... Yahweh has always raised prophets,saviours and redeemers to do his bidding..... I know one GOD and he is the Father alone... You can keep worshipping your triune triology GODs........ And please where did you see me worship The Father through an image??... Jesus as high priest takes my prayers and offerings to the Father.... The isrealites who had earthly high priests with them did not make them there idols...these high priests only were mediators between God and the people..... Jesus is the new high priest of God...so I have every right to pass through him to get to the one GOD the Father..... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 10:27am On Jun 17, 2013 |
Bidam: you pple love to quote this scripture without even understanding what the scripture is actually saying. Jesus is not inferior to Jehovah; They are equal. But for the purpose of salvation, He submitted Himself to a position in which He could fulfill the requirements of salvation and the scripture you quoted explained it very well in the sense that a woman isn't any less than her husband, they are equal before God; however, for God's purposes, it is her position to submit. Do you realize that we are not inferior to Jesus??... Do you agree you are equal with Jesus since you have worn the trinitarian lens to read 1 corinthians 11:3??.... But I would make this one thing clear.... A woman is not equal to a man.... I want you guys to open 1 corinthians 11 and read it all through and see that a man is greater than a woman by all standards.... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by benalvino(m): 10:52am On Jun 17, 2013 |
ijawkid: Last time I check U did not create anything. 2 Likes |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by Nobody: 10:53am On Jun 17, 2013 |
ijawkid:NO. Do you knw that from your stiff stance we can conclude it wasn't the Father who sent Jesus....abi??.....So who sent Jesus if it wasn't the Father? How could Jesus have considered equality with God a thing to hold on to when he isn't like satan who infact thought it not robbery to be equal with GOD....because you don't know scriptures you will keep on dancing on your opinion. That's the difference there between Jesus and satan........one was obedient and the other wanted to be viewed as GOD..satan was an angel. Jesus was never an angel. God created satan through Jesus allow this truth to sink into ur muddled brain Why did he have to come to show us to get to the Father??....why is the Father important if Jesus out of his own volition alone came to the earth??..Jesus did not come of his own volition..i wonder where you got that idea from. you are stepping into dangerous terrain if you keep on arguing what your lil brain can't comprehend..timely warning sha!! You said Jesus would get all the power,but behold he would still remain subject to the Father has he has always been....Amen to the scripture you quoted. God the father is always that source of light..i keep on telling you but you refuse to listen. No....I insist Jesus was only refered to as first and last in revelation.......He wasn't reffered. He is the first and the last. You guys have chosen not to be able to differentiate the Father from his son and servant....servant, prophet, priest are all roles played by Jesus. He is God the Son. Why na Jesus come earth??...why no be the Father come??......why na Jesus come??...let's make an example that God is the source which can be likened to the human soul or mind and The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit also likened to the spirit in a man.Jesus is God's WORD(became flesh) and was sent by that Source. as a human being do you send your soul on errands or your body? And as Jesus na equal with God whi him come be son of the Father instead of mayb the brother to the Father or maybe a cousin or twin brother??......foolish reasoning..deal with my example above. Do you realize you are saying Jesus only came to the earth because of his own will and not because its the Fathers will??....do you realize you are spewing jargons??.....there is only one WILL. Answer it.....Jesus is subject to the Father becos He came from the Father. amen. |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 11:08am On Jun 17, 2013 |
benalvino: The last time I checked Jesus was the first of Gods creation and still is........ That is why God is his God and head over him...... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by true2god: 11:19am On Jun 17, 2013 |
true2god: Ok to put it on a simpler perspective, (Ijawkid, Bernimoore, truthislight) can Jesus be worshipped?@ Ijawkid, can Jesus be worshipped? |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 11:25am On Jun 17, 2013 |
Bidam: NO. Why??...why is Jesus still obeying his Father in heaven??....why are all of us including Jesus obeying this one Father over all??.... Bidam:Your colleauge said its only because Jesus was humble that's why he came to the earth not also because he was obeying a superior....... Bidam:Oh yes....why would he even think of equality with GOd when he knew God was greater than him... Bidam: I know through Jesus satan was created....I'm on the fact of one who is loyal to his superior.....Jesus displayed obedience while satan didn't .......they both had the free will to be subservient to the Father or not.... Bidam: Please talk to benalvino who insists it is only because Jesus was humble that's why he came to the earth.... Bidam: Then why argue Jesus is equal with the Father,when you know the Father is his(Jesus) source??.... Or you guys just love running around... Bidam: In what respect??... Bidam: He is the son of God not God the son...stop the twistings and heresy....smh!!!.... Bidam:Your use of human soul and spirit is complete rubbish.....you do know ya analogy is one I reject with utmost displeasure I don't send my soul on errand I send someone who is distinct from me on errands....and may I re-iterate that Jesus isn't the literal words coming out of Yahwehs mouth....smh!!!.... Bidam: Lol...how come one is Father and the other son...why not brothers so that we can confirm there co-equality.. Bidam: And that will is who's will??...please be succinct....who's will??... Bidam: Only??....why are we subject to Jesus??..... |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by ijawkid(m): 11:30am On Jun 17, 2013 |
true2god: @ Ijawkid, can Jesus be worshipped? 1 chronicles 29:20 King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king. _____________________________ Philippians 2:9-11 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. ______________________________ Like benalvino said it depends on what you define worship to be...... I know the God I give exlusive devotion to...... I revere/adore and honour Jesus as Gods appointed king,judge,high priest...... Thank you.... 1 Like |
| Re: "Firstborn" Does It Mean First Created? Jehovah's Witness! by true2god: 11:39am On Jun 17, 2013 |
ijawkid:Ur response sounds very cunny and diplomatic, u r not straight-forward with ur response. I worship God (the father) and i worship the son (Jesus). Is it ok by ur own doctrine and belief? |
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