ijawkid:
So who made Yahwehs office higher than that of Jesus??....how did come about that Yahwehs office is greater than that of Jesus??....who made appointments...who arranged that headship arrangement??.....

What I see here is one who does not even understand the trinity he believes in...





Would the Father ever change his office??....obama would stop being president in the next 3 yrs,...would Yahweh stop being the head of Jesus anytime soon??....

And who tells you obama isn't better than you??....he is older than you...has got more experience than you...he is more knowledgeable than you...he existed before you...he has authority over you...he is more powerful than you......

How can you say obama is not by far better than you??.....




What example??...an example that squashes your doctrine to the ground...


Amongst Gods there are ranks bro....

I must not be able to create to be called GOD by GOD himself....

All those called Gods do not have equal abilities and strenght........



Like I said earlier which none of you could dispute,there is not a single thing Jesus can do or what ever knowledge or power he possesses that wasn't given to him by the Father.......I lie??...



But they all did the Fathers will..right or wrong??....

They all coincidentally acceded to the Fathers authority for some bizzare
reasons??.......

Are we not all playing a role in Gods purpose as well......??.

Are we not??...how does that make us equal with our God and Father??..



Cheiii.......I am finished.....

You are just so pathetic....

Please if Jesus is as good as his Father what is he receiving revelations from,from the Father for??.....

What is he doing the Fathers bidding for??...why is the Father still his GOD...why is Jesus still doing his Fathers will In heaven??....why??......why is he the high priest of God in heaven acting as a go-between between God and man if he is as good as his GOD??

Have you been smoking ciggerates recently or you just want to be blind......

You are asking how one who elevated another person is better than the person he elevated and gave authority??.....

You are sick...go to the hospital??...





The Father sent his son and appointed him as saviour to rescue his people...Yahweh has not done anything wrong by sending a represntative to do that......he has always done that to save his people......

Yahweh has always raised prophets,saviours and redeemers to do his bidding.....

I know one GOD and he is the Father alone...

You can keep worshipping your triune triology GODs........

And please where did you see me worship The Father through an image??...

Jesus as high priest takes my prayers and offerings to the Father....

The isrealites who had earthly high priests with them did not make them there idols...these high priests only were mediators between God and the people.....

Jesus is the new high priest of God...so I have every right to pass through him to get to the one GOD the Father.....

Lol na you they talk about trinity say I no understand? just because you cant understand simple example... and you are asking question who made Yahweh office higher than jesus... a useless question I may say...
See Jesus is the Word of GOD... an attribute of GOD... the father Uses is word to create everything... the Word became flesh and dwell with us... Now the word is same nature as the father but not greater than the father... I really cant tell how you think really... when I make example of office you begin talk irrelevant things like election like its the point am trying to make...

does the father ever change is office.... oboy another stupid question... it is an example am showing aba... there is no office am just showing you the first person of the trinity and the 2nd who is the son how do you think or conclude that am talking about office in terms of jobs? now I see how its hard for you to grasp everything we are saying.

now to drag you asking if Obama is better than me... I will ask you how is he better? doesn't he get old? cant he die? can he turn water to wine? which kind koolaid you drink sef? sheiiii. Obama is better than you not me...
I just found out nothing you they understand you just make your self look like a joke for that statement. am not better than him he is not better than me cause we are of same nature.

an example you cant grasp I don shame... I don see where the problem is coming from that is why the contradiction is mounting on your side...

which rank? oh now you are talking about rank? abeg which rank? you no here say there is no GOD but ONE? if you call your self god you are no more than the wood and stone people carve and worship.

to be a GOD you must have the ability to create things you are GOD over so they will worship you that is Why our GOD is jealous. if you cant create you are nothing but an idol...

ijawkid let me ask you what are you god over? I know you are god over nothing which makes you not a god... answer this.

tell me when the father gave him the ability to create... oya talk... you don't even have a case on this one... if you are not GOD you cant create. my brother you lie... except you bring bible verse where he was given the power to create keep quiet.

Does it matters which will they did? they did the will of the one GOD. the reason is simple the father is the first person I have already explain about Office... the purpose or plan for God is to save mankind... respect no follow they work as a team he no matter Whose will is taking place all they know is that at the end GOD will be All in All . that's team is...

are we not playing a role? the only role you are playing is embrace Jesus and do what he tells you as for GOD he doesn't want to deal with you directly that is why Jesus came. you get to God through his son.

Am not pathetic... your problem is that you don't know the sacrifice Jesus make to become a man... He was in same nature as GOD and he dropped it... so abeg open your eyes to this no they ask stupid question... that is why Jesus is still a man today.
what are you doing your father's bidding for? is your father better than you? or is he greater than you? no they ask silly question.

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature[b] of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!

read this verse till it got into your head... you asking silly question because you don't understand the price Jesus paid to be human..

Yahweh sent prophets to do his work... the thing you don't get is during all those prophets Elijah etc... non of them came from heaven... No time during Elijah their time did we read that GOD manifest in the flesh... non of those men where perfect men... non of those men where the redeemer... non of them was GOD... so abeg you Shhhh!!!!

now you saying Jesus take you prayers to Yahweh who takes Jesus prayers to Yahweh? and I know you don't pray to Jesus or through Jesus so why are you making this statement?

this high priest Jesus is taking worship and prayers... you pray in his name baptize in his name... why not just pray to father direct?
the Israelites did not worship those priest but this one you will worship Jesus they bible said so. you will pray to him the bible said so...

the father say the same way you honor me is same way you will honor my son... they share that same glory if you like come with your rotten exclusive worship wayo... the father tell you say you will honor me and my son same way.

ijawkid:

The last time I checked Jesus was the first of Gods creation and still is........

That is why God is his God and head over him......

lol so GOD created Jesus through JEsus? hahahahaaha

ijawkid:



1 chronicles 29:20

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
And David said to all the
congregation, Now bless the LORD
your God. And all the congregation
blessed the LORD God of their
fathers, and bowed down their
heads, and worshipped the LORD,
and the king.
_____________________________
Philippians 2:9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him,
and given him a name which is above every
name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee
should bow, of things in heaven, and things in
earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the
Father.

______________________________

Like benalvino said it depends on what you define worship to be......

I know the God I give exlusive devotion to......

I revere/adore and honour Jesus as Gods appointed king,judge,high priest......

Thank you....

there is only one worship my friend... david got civil homage. the bible says you shall not worship anything except the father. no worry

true2god: Ur response sounds very cunny and diplomatic, u r not straight-forward with ur response. I worship God (the father) and i worship the son (Jesus). Is it ok by ur own doctrine and belief?

they don't even pray through Jesus or to Jesus... they saw Jesus as an ordinary god... but Jesus is calling him self first and last beginning and end alpha and omega. they are the only ones who translate him as a god then later they translate as Mighty God... see as they jump back to big letter G? cause it didn't say almighty there... that shows you how their doctrine is belittling Jesus... when he claim to be the I am they change it to I have been... my point is why do they have problem when Jesus claim to be GOD?

true2god: Ur response sounds very cunny and diplomatic, u r not straight-forward with ur response. I worship God (the father) and i worship the son (Jesus). Is it ok by ur own doctrine and belief?

Cunny??.......

I just said I adore and honour Christ the appointed and annointed king,high priest and judge of GOD...........

What more do you want??.......

benalvino:

they don't even pray through Jesus or to Jesus... they saw Jesus as an ordinary god... but Jesus is calling him self first and last beginning and end alpha and omega. they are the only ones who translate him as a god then later they translate as Mighty God... see as they jump back to big letter G? cause it didn't say almighty there... that shows you how their doctrine is belittling Jesus... when he claim to be the I am they change it to I have been... my point is why do they have problem when Jesus claim to be GOD?

Which GOD??.....

He isn't the Father.....

So case closed....

The one God I recognize is the Father,the God of Jesus..........

ijawkid:

Cunny??.......

I just said I adore and honour Christ the appointed and annointed king,high priest and judge of GOD...........

What more do you want??.......

You should worship him...

ijawkid:

Which GOD??.....

He isn't the Father.....

So case closed....

The one God I recognize is the Father,the God of Jesus..........

2 alpha and omega?

benalvino:

You should worship him...

worship him in what sense??as my God which is the Father??.....

benalvino:

2 alpha and omega?

That's the confusion u put up not me......



If you have decided to wallow in that confusion then you can as well agree with the 2 king of kings we have in the scriptures.......

ijawkid:

That's the confusion u put up not me......



If you have decided to wallow in that confusion then you can as well agree with the 2 king of kings we have in the scriptures.......

But there can be 2 king of kings but not 2 alpha and omega why did Jesus call him self that?

ijawkid:
worship him in what sense??as my God which is the Father??.....

I dont care how you worship but... If he is not One with the father God then you will be worshipping an idol simple as that... Revelation shows he is worshipped

He was even worshipped as a man

benalvino:
But there can be 2 king of kings but not 2 alpha and omega why did Jesus call him self that?

And I insist Jesus called himself first and last and the reasons where given......and not alpha and omega....

And why should you think there can be 2 king of kings??.....isn't it suppose to be an exclusive title to Jesus??......

ijawkid:

And I insist Jesus called himself first and last and the reasons where given......and not alpha and omega....

And why should you think there can be 2 king of kings??.....isn't it suppose to be an exclusive title to Jesus??......

He called him self alpha and omega more than once... The first an last you talk about is cooked up excuse to deny the deity of Jesus

benalvino:
I dont care how you worship but... If he is not One with the father God then you will be worshipping an idol simple as that... Revelation shows he is worshipped

He was even worshipped as a man

And scriptures just showed david was worshipped along with Yahweh.....

The day you differentiate the kinds of worship that is the day you would not be struggling this much.....

Hear Jesus' words...

John 4:22-24

22 You Samaritans worship what
you do not know; we worship(Jesus inclusive) what we do know,
for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time
is coming and has now come when the true
worshipers will worship the Father in the
Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of
worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit,
and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit
and in truth.
_____________________________

That God Jesus calls "MY GOD" is whom I give the utmost and exclusive worship to......


And mind you when you say Jesus is one with the Father it is exactly the way we are one with Jesus....

benalvino:

He called him self alpha and omega more than once... The first an last you talk about is cooked up excuse to deny the deity of Jesus

Naaaa........

First and last is what was clinged to Him and that was attched to his death and ressurection.....

You can deify Jesus for all I care,the one God is the Father whom Jesus himself worshipped....

ijawkid:

Naaaa........

First and last is what was clinged to Him and that was attched to his death and ressurection.....

You can deify Jesus for all I care,the one God is the Father whom Jesus himself worshipped....

what about beginning and end?

Bidam: Jesus was never an angel.

The word "angel" means messenger.

^

benalvino:

they don't even pray through Jesus or to Jesus... they saw Jesus as an ordinary god... but Jesus is calling him self first and last beginning and end alpha and omega. they are the only ones who translate him as a god then later they translate as Mighty God... see as they jump back to big letter G? cause it didn't say almighty there... that shows you how their doctrine is belittling Jesus... when he claim to be the I am they change it to I have been... my point is why do they have problem when Jesus claim to be GOD?

The challenge with JW is trying by all means to ensure that the deitiship of christ is erased frm the Bible even wen its written there, and thats the purpose the NWT is serving. The NWT is the only translation that renderd 'worship' wen it referd to Jesus as 'paying obeisance', it is the only translation that read Jesus response 'before Abraham I AM' to 'before Abraham i hav been'. Thats where their complication comes.

So many Bible verses specified christ as worthy of worship, worthy to receving glory and honour, power to forgive sins etc.

@benalvino

and yet Philippians 2:5-11 says he made him self that way.

are you saying that hebrews 2:9 which confirm that 'jesus was made' contradicts Philippians 2:5-11?

ijawkid:

And I insist Jesus called himself first and last and the reasons where given......and not alpha and omega....

And why should you think there can be 2 king of kings??.....isn't it suppose to be an exclusive title to Jesus??......

U r really confusing urself with the 1st statement u made and not me. 'Jesus called himself the 1st and the last...and not alpha and omega'.

By ur own submission angel michael is the 1st and the last (since u were meant to believe that angel michael=Jesus) and not the alpha and the omega. Angel michael is the only thing God created and angel micheal created the heaven and the earth & evrything (even angel Gabriel). Can u see the simple logic that u r wrong & fail\refuse to admit dat wat watch-tower is printing a wrong info? Thats serios!

I tink u should read the Bible ursef and stop depending on magazines that interprete the Bible with great bias in mind.

true2god: The challenge with JW is trying by all means to ensure that the deitiship of christ is erased frm the Bible even wen its written there, and thats the purpose the NWT is serving. The NWT is the only translation that renderd 'worship' wen it referd to Jesus as 'paying obeisance', it is the only translation that read Jesus response 'before Abraham I AM' to 'before Abraham i hav been'. Thats where their complication comes.

So many Bible verses specified christ as worthy of worship, worthy to receving glory and honour, power to forgive sins etc.

Learn to see what it means when one is given authority to do something or act with someone else's authority....

John 20:21-23

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As
the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”
22 And with that he breathed on them and
said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you
forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven;
if you do not forgive them, they are not
forgiven.”
_____________________________

Jesus can forgive sins because his Father gave him the authority to,so also can the disciples of Jesus(we).........

At least today you know that with the authority Jesus has given us just as he was given authority from his Father we can forgive sins......don't be shocked!!!!!

That does not in any way make all of us GOD the Father or equal to Him or equal to Jesus whom the Father sent.........

And it should interest you to know that the glory the Father gave to Jesus ,Jesus gave us that glory in return......

At the end of the day we would all have to acknowledge the Father as the supreme and most high over Jesus and all of us....

This is why I say emphatically that I give exclusive worship to the Father....because he is the one GOD ....

ijawkid:

And scriptures just showed david was worshipped along with Yahweh.....

The day you differentiate the kinds of worship that is the day you would not be struggling this much.....

Hear Jesus' words...

John 4:22-24

22 You Samaritans worship what
you do not know; we worship(Jesus inclusive) what we do know,
for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time
is coming and has now come when the true
worshipers will worship the Father in the
Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of
worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit,
and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit
and in truth.
_____________________________

That God Jesus calls "MY GOD" is whom I give the utmost and exclusive worship to......


And mind you when you say Jesus is one with the Father it is exactly the way we are one with Jesus....

Matthew 2:2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

Matthew 2:11 “And when they had come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 14:33 “Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9 “And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, Rejoice! And they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 28:17 “And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.”

John 9:38 “Then he said, ‘Lord, I believe!’ And he worshiped Him.”

Hebrews 1:6 “But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him

true2god: U r really confusing urself with the 1st statement u made and not me. 'Jesus called himself the 1st and the last...and not alpha and omega'.

By ur own submission angel michael is the 1st and the last (since u were meant to believe that angel michael=Jesus) and not the alpha and the omega. Thats serios.

I tink u should read the Bible ursef and stop depending on magazines that interprete the Bible with great bias in mind.

Lol.....and you baffle me again....

You ran with your shoes from the angel micheal thread all to be talking about it here.......

Jesus is first and last for a reason......have you for once looked at revelation to see why he is tagged first and last or you just feel first and last is a title that is exclusive to God??.....

BERNIMOORE:
@benalvino



are you saying that hebrews 2:9 which confirm that 'jesus was made' contradicts Philippians 2:5-11?

learn English... Jesus was made. who made him that way? in phil 2:5-11 it says he made him self.

Why did Jesus call him self beginning and end? alpha and omega? I no include first and last because una they bring silly excuse

benalvino:

Matthew 2:2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

Matthew 2:11 “And when they had come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 14:33 “Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9 “And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, Rejoice! And they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 28:17 “And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.”

John 9:38 “Then he said, ‘Lord, I believe!’ And he worshiped Him.”

Hebrews 1:6 “But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him

Since you can't differentiate between the contexts of the word worship,can you now agree david was worshipped...??...do you agree??

Because I aint biased...if Jesus isn't the Father then he isn't my God and so I know. What it means when worship is given to persons other than the Father .....


When I see where it is written that people worshipped Jesus I know what it means....


And you forgot to quote other scriptures were earthly kings were worshipped....

This is even Jesus' illustration


Matthew 18:26

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
The servant therefore fell down,
and worshipped him, saying, Lord,
have patience with me, and I will
pay thee all.


Until you know how to use worship in the right way and know how to apply it to persons other than the Father you would remain confused for all eternity until Jesus comes in the end to tell you that The Father is his GOD.....

benalvino:

Matthew 2:2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

Matthew 2:11 “And when they had come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 14:33 “Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9 “And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, Rejoice! And they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 28:17 “And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.”

John 9:38 “Then he said, ‘Lord, I believe!’ And he worshiped Him.”

Hebrews 1:6 “But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him

Since you can't differentiate between the contexts of the word worship,can you now agree david was worshipped...??...do you agree??

Because I aint biased...if Jesus isn't the Father then he isn't my God and so I know. What it means when worship is given to persons other than the Father .....


When I see where it is written that people worshipped Jesus I know what it means....


And you forgot to quote other scriptures were earthly kings were worshipped....

This is even Jesus' illustration


Matthew 18:26

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
The servant therefore fell down,
and worshipped him, saying, Lord,
have patience with me, and I will
pay thee all.


Until you know how to use worship in the right way and know how to apply it to persons other than the Father you would remain confused for all eternity until Jesus comes in the end to tell you that The Father is his GOD.....

benalvino: Why did Jesus call him self beginning and end? alpha and omega? I no include first and last because una they bring silly excuse

Vry shameless excuse indeed. The other time Ijawkid said 'Jesus is mighty God and not the Almighty God) and now he said 'Jesus christ is the 1st and the last and not Alpha and Omega'. I believe this pple are polished to defend lies at all cost.

benalvino:

learn English... Jesus was made. who made him that way? in phil 2:5-11 it says he made him self.

He humbled himself and the Father also made him lower than the angels by given him a body to stay on earth and do Gods will(the Fathers will)....

Jesus was humble and obedient to one who has authority over him.....

benalvino:

... Show me a verse where it states the father is better than Jesus in God's form? Infact when he says he is the son of God he is claiming same nature and equal to Go

you requested for a verse, let me supply 2 verses among many;
when paul was saying this below, jesus was already in the the heaven, yet he was 'reffered to as having a head' which is God and has glorified 'His servant', Jesus

1Corinthians 11:3

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

so if the head of christ is God, can christ also be equal with God?

again;

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham and of Isaac
and of Jacob, the God of our
forefathers, has glorified His
[size=14pt]servant, Jesus[/size], whom you, for
your part, delivered up

answer pls!

true2god: Vry shameless excuse indeed. The other time Ijawkid said 'Jesus is mighty God and not the Almighty God) and now he said 'Jesus christ is the 1st and the last and not Alpha and Omega'. I believe this pple are polished to defend lies at all cost.

And yes Jesus isn't the almighty God......

Read my lips if you can see it......

Revelation 1:1 already has told you guys that....