Tayo-D:

@gabe_logan,

Where are you getting your info from - The Gospel according to Barnabas? I shudder when peple who have no biblical understanding or foundation starts telling us tales to bolster their non-biblical stance.

since na u know bible pass, can u please show us a portion in the bible where it was stated that Jesus christ had any earthly possesions beyond the ones i stated?

yyuui

Tgirl4real:

I get all ya problem. You can't come to terms with the fact that your honourable man of gawd is a thief. Sorry, that is what the bible has labelled them.

WOW! Pastor Adeboye a thief?
But why do people believe that God's people shouldn't have the best things i life?

@ Tgirl4real

obviously talk is cheap and accusations can be made off the cuff - back up your claims with proof and you run away. I thought you saw the fruits that made him a thief? Kindly display them here for us to see, or are you the only one able to see the alleged fruit?

@ gabe

I do not know the veracity of your prostitute story, but lets leave that aside for now. Once again I ask - did Jesus not have money to pay for where they slept every night when they moved from place to place? Did he not possess enough to carry out his ministry? That is the real question here - Is the jet being bought for the ministry or for self? If you can answer that question, then please do.

On the issue of being poor, a lot of you have gotten it wrong.

2 Corinthians 8:9
For you see the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, how though he had wealth, he became poor on your account, so that through his need you might have wealth.

I am in no way supporting anyone fleecing others to be rich, but this promise is clear and unequivocal - Jesus was made poor so we could be wealthy. If you want to remain poor, then that is a choice you can make.

Like I said before, here we go again. . . faithfuls vs critics vs bad belle.


The big question is "is $20million on a jet justifiable"?

Firstly, for those of you that are worried that the money belongs to the 'gullible members of RCCG that have 'sown seeds'', thats a completely different issue that has been exhaustively discussed on the most recent thread on Tithing.

Moving on, those who think that a lot more can be done with $20 million for the less priviledged, you are absolutely correct!! However, many of you are hypocrites. Sure, 20 mil is quite a lot but lets consider Einstein's theory of relativity. Most of you cannot confidently say that there are monies you spend on other luxuries (probably including your laptop) that you would not have fed someone else. I'm not particular about the amount, I'm particular about the principle and therefore in principle, most of you us fall short.

That aside, is it the will of God for the man to own such an expensive luxury? Here's a scripture that I find handy:
Psalm 37:4 Delight yourself in the LORD
      and he will give you the desires of your heart.

Does Adeboye delight Himself in God? None of us can answer that accurately so lets not even try!

Sister T4real.

R u sure your name dosnt mean Tyrant 4 real

I cannot stop following Jesus, if thats what you mean

and the Word is always a guide to my path.

JEsus was a carpenter, he must have been poor>

Tayo-D, its your turn to answer.

You want us to analyse the motive behind the purchase of Jet. Firstly, when asked, the motive will be to furtherance the work of the ministry becauce he has branches all over the world. Can you give me scriptures to substantiate the vision of RCCG to build churches on every 5mins drive.

A lot of Pastors own private jets. I know it’s for the cause of the gospel.

So am sure he would surely get it. Sooner than u expect.

Cheers!!!

If Jesus was poor because he wanted to. Abi? If you think you should be poor because you are following Jesus, good for you. I'm sure Jesus doesn't want us to be poor. My bible says so

Tgirl4real:

Tayo-D, its your turn to answer.

You want us to analyse the motive behind the purchase of Jet. Firstly, when asked, the motive will be to furtherance the work of the ministry becauce he has branches all over the world. Can you give me scriptures to substantiate the vision of RCCG to build churches on every 5mins drive.

I'm 100% sure that if the jet is bought(that is if the story is true) it will be for commercial purposes

Tgirl4real:

Tayo-D, its your turn to answer.

You want us to analyse the motive behind the purchase of Jet. Firstly, when asked, the motive will be to furtherance the work of the ministry becauce he has branches all over the world. Can you give me scriptures to substantiate the vision of RCCG to build churches on every 5mins drive.

are you kidding me?

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Matthew 28:19-20

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, a[b]nd to the ends of the earth[/b]" (Acts 1:

Unless you are being facetious, I'm sure you know you can't ride a donkey to the ends of the earth and have time to do everything else.

"Jesus was a Carpenter, he must have been poor".  I like that.  How's that for example?  After all "the servant is not greater than his master", No?

True, being a carpenter is not synonymous with poverty - but neither is it synonymous with being rich, at least in the material sense of it.

You see, I think one major problem is that many consider life here as the ultimate and definitive one.  While it is true that man needs a minimum of well being to be able to serve God, the danger remains for the one who now begins to consider these 'goods' as ends in themselves.  

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be"

@Tgirl4real,

Tayo-D, its your turn to answer.

You want us to analyse the motive behind the purchase of Jet. Firstly, when asked, the motive will be to furtherance the work of the ministry becauce he has branches all over the world. Can you give me scriptures to substantiate the vision of RCCG to build churches on every 5mins drive.

I find something to agree with you in this statement. I personally don't see where the Bible teaches that a pastor can set up branches like we find in many cases in naija. However, you could have an evangelist or someone who stands in the office of a Prophet or Apsotle who needs to go around a lot to preach the Gospel.  Pastor Adeboye clearly stands in this role and needs a reliable and confortable means of transportation to go to and fro.

there is nothing wrong with vision or an aspect of his vision for that matter. While Davidylan is concerned about not enough churches, you are concerned that there are too many. Remeber that the earth must be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

KunleOshob:

Jesus was a carpenter, he must have been poor>

lets even assume this is true:
2 Corinthians 8:9 For you see the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, how though he had wealth, he became poor on your account, so that through his need you might have wealth.

is this too difficult to comprehend?

@ agboifo

well said, but where is the evidence that this jet in question is being seen as an end in itself?

tundebabzy:

I'm 100% sure that if the jet is bought(that is if the story is true) it will be for commercial purposes

So it is now ok for churches to engage in commercial ventures despite the fact the the law makes it illegal for churches to engage in profit making ventures since they don't pay taxes.

Nobody said as a christian you should be poor, what we are saying is that a man of God should be christ like and that means humble (not extravagant) also he should concentrate on showing love to less priviledge not preaching the gospel to those that brought the gospel to us in the first instance when there are still several communities in Nigeria that are yet to hear the gospel.

KunleOshob:

Nobody said as a christian you should be poor, what we are saying is that a man of God should be christ like and that means humble (not extravagant) also he should concentrate on showing love to less priviledge not preaching the gospel to those that brought the gospel to us in the first instance when there are still several communities in Nigeria that are yet to hear the gospel.

I will take exception to that last comment. Are you placing yourself in God's shoes to determine where the man preaches or doesn't preach?

Were all the Jews reached before Paul started preaching to the Gentiles? Did Mr. Jesse Smith who lives in Texas and doesn't believe in God bring you the gospel? Does he not also deserve to hear the word preached? Were there no Jews needing salvation when Jonah was sent to prophesy and bring about repentance in them? Were there no Jewish people needing salvation when the Centurion was saved? Were there no Jews requiring baptism when Phillip baptised the Ethiopian?

People have specific callings as given by God, for you to sit down and say he should reach every Nigerian who has never heard about Christ FIRST, before going on elsewhere, I think your are arrogating more rights to yourself than you have.

Tayo-D, we don't validate things basedv on what we think but on what scriptures says. Nothing supports RCCG vision in the bible. Since, the discusion is getting out of hand, I shall rest my case at this juncture.

debosky:

lets even assume this is true:
2 Corinthians 8:9 For you see the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, how though he had wealth, he became poor on your account, so that through his need you might have wealth.

The wealth Jesus promised us is wealth in heaven and not earthly riches so stop quoting the bible out of context.
Passage John 14:2:

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Yet another one of those threads. . .

All we will see is ranting between the faithfuls, the critics and the bad belles!

Hmmm,

from the comments, who are the faithfuls, the critics and the bad belles

@Tgirl4real,

Tayo-D, we don't validate things basedv on what we think but on what scriptures says. Nothing supports RCCG vision in the bible. Since, the discusion is getting out of hand, I shall rest my case at this juncture.

Of course the Bible is the final authority. The problem here is "how readest thou?" I see absolutely no basis for you to call the man a thief. A Jet, like your car or bicycle is just a tool. These are the things the Bible refer to as what we "use" in the world. the biblical injunction to those who use the world is "not to abuse it". if you can establish any abuse through the salient points clearly outlined by debosky, then you have a case. until then, please learn to use the scriptures scripturally.

debosky:

I will take exception to that last comment. Are you placing yourself in God's shoes to determine where the man preaches or doesn't preach?

Were all the Jews reached before Paul started preaching to the Gentiles? Did Mr. Jesse Smith who lives in Texas and doesn't believe in God bring you the gospel? Does he not also deserve to hear the word preached? Were there no Jews needing salvation when Jonah was sent to prophesy and bring about repentance in them? Were there no Jewish people needing salvation when the Centurion was saved? Were there no Jews requiring baptism when Phillip baptised the Ethiopian?

People have specific callings as given by God, for you to sit down and say he should reach every Nigerian who has never heard about Christ FIRST, before going on elsewhere, I think your are arrogating more rights to yourself than you have.

As usual more questions than answers, since you have refused to answer the question and instead ask more irrelevant questions i would answer them for you. Our pastors are more interested in taking the the gospel back to Europe and America because of Pound$, Dollar$ & Euro$. The gospel as already reached every where in the western world it is left for them to accept or reject it. However in our back yard here several communities are yet to receive the gospel yet our pastors concentrate on "spreading" the gospel to europe and America and lately South Africa. The truth is that what they are doing is not spreading of the gospel they are just expanding on their earthly territories

So Jesus answered and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[a] or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel’s, 30 who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. Mark 10:29-30

Is that also wealth in heaven? I like the way we spiritualise simple things 2 Corinthians 8:7-10

7But just as you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in your love for us[a]—see that you also excel in this grace of giving.

8I am not commanding you, but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others. 9For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.

10And here is my advice about what is best for you in this matter: Last year you were the first not only to give but also to have the desire to do so. 11Now finish the work, so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it, according to your means.

Now this passage is obviously talking about GIVING, here on earth, so why would the part about Jesus simply become spiritual alone? Jesus became poor so we could be wealthy both here on earth and in heaven as well.

wat is wrong wit getting a jet for the church? is it not for  spreading the gospel?

WAKE UP GUYS, WHT MAKES U THINK THE GIST IS TRUE?

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED THAT THESE PM GUYS ARE JUST TRYING TO SELL THEIR STUFF BY COOKING U STORIES.

@ naijacutee,

hmm,

WAKE UP GUYS, WHT MAKES You THINK THE GIST IS TRUE?

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED THAT THESE PM GUYS ARE JUST TRYING TO SELL THEIR STUFF BY COOKING UP STORIES.

KunleOshob:

As usual more questions than answers, since you have refused to answer the question and instead ask more irrelevant questions i would answer them for you. Our pastors are more interested in taking the the gospel back to Europe and America because of Pound$, Dollar$ & Euro$. The gospel as already reached every where in the western world it is left for them to accept or reject it. However in our back yard here several communities are yet to receive the gospel yet our pastors concentrate on "spreading" the gospel to europe and America and lately South Africa. The truth is that what they are doing is not spreading of the gospel they are just expanding on their earthly territories

Once again you have set yourself out as judge, jury and prosecutor. So you know for a fact that God did not send pastors from Nigeria or elsewhere to preach in those places? Is simply 'spreading' the gospel all that is required? Is Jesus' command not to make disciples (an ongoing process)?

Did the missionaries who came to Africa ensure that every part of the Western World had FIRST received the gospel before coming here? You say my questions are irrelevant because you cannot answer them. Had every single Jew heard the gospel before Paul went to the Gentiles?

I like the way you have concluded already, it leaves no room for any further questioning. Good job.

fela was right after all,
"pastor's house na him dey fine pass, my people dem dey do bad bad bad things to Jesus christ our lord, Amen , Amen , Amen, by the grace of almighty God, ascramento ladksosuuekumukeenyata Amen , Amen, Amen, my people open ur eyes very well, popu na enjoinment, Imamu na gbaladun, aa a a a a aaa my people juba bishop, dem go juba popu, dem go juba imam ah ah ah aaaaa
20 million Dollars, OMG and my fellow Nigerians keep shouting , governement this , government that, Damn it, this buisness is booming like crazy man,

20 million dollars, 20 million dollars, 20 million dollars, 20 million dollars.
i fell for my country and its people

Gamine

@Mr Gabe.
Thanks be to God, i didnt need scholarship.
Those that needed it direly got it!

So how many who needed it direly do you know received scholarships.
The last time I checked the school's web site it was soliciting $165m for endowment fund specifically for scholarshi but nothing, none at all about criteria for giving students or how many have received.
Yet, mugu sheeple go dey follow cause dem wan prosperity like oga pastor abi na GO too, meanwhile we, Nigerians & our country, continue to be known as the worst on earth.