HeatFusion:

Some naija men are just plain selfish and greedy and just disgusting. Why must they marry more than 1 wife and get them all pregnant.
This issue is beyond poverty and lack of education, it's the case of disorder.
There is no order in this nation. Most of this issues are based on religion, makes it harder to govern.

Why must women and children suffer like this? So unfair!

You speak as if naija women are idiots. At what point does society start making these women more responsible for their choices? You can not tell me that all of them were FORCED into such unions so why are you not scolding the stupid women in this case?

i agree the men there are selfish the cries of their 3rd leg is very important to them

Sky Blue:

Sorry, i am not even looking at it from a "yoruba angle", rather just the culture of begging. Allow me to post an article, its an interesting read with images (and no i am not trying to become the new Nigeria1 : ) )

I read it and it's a sad read. I'm very much aware that people actually consider begging as a profession. Anyway Nigeria has always had influx of beggars from neighbouring countries, it's not new.

*Hauwa*:

i agree the men there are selfish the cries of their 3rd leg is very important to them

Sexist!!!

stillwater:

I read it and it's a sad read. I'm very much aware that people actually consider begging as a profession. Anyway Nigeria has always had influx of beggars from neighbouring countries, it's not new.

There are beggars everywhere. More people beg in Lagos state cos it's the centre of excellence in Nigeria.

Kobojunkie:

You speak as if naija women are idiots. At what point does society start making these women more responsible for their choices? You can not tell me that all of them were FORCED into such unions so why are you not scolding the stupid women in this case?

Most of the women that find themselves engaged in this union are Muslims and traditionally, as Muslim U have no right but to be subservient.

Uche2nna:

Most of the women that find themselves engaged in this union are Muslims and traditionally, as Muslim U have no right but to be subservient.

HUH?? Which version are you speaking of here? The ones in the north or the muslims in the south? LOL You know that they are not all the same . . . . roflmao!!

Kobojunkie:

HUH?? Which version are you speaking of here? The ones in the north or the muslims in the south? LOL You know that they are not all the same . . . . roflmao!!

So the Muslims in the south read a different version of the Koran? I did not know that they are two different versions? Care to educate me some more?

.

Uche2nna:

So the Muslims in the south read a different version of the Koran? I did not know that they are two different versions? Care to educate me some more?

I don't know about them reading a different version of the koran, but I can tell you that they do not practise the same way the muslims in the north do. 5 of my primary school mates ended up getting married to men who already had wives, against the wish of their parents. lol . I had some more high school mates who had affairs and went on to marry older and already married men  in the name of love. All muslims but not the same as the north, at least the way I think it happens up there. During college, I noticed life changing for some of them. About 2 ended up out of their marriage for one reason or another; one ran away. My point is, they are not always forced into these things. Some of them choose against their own parents wishes to engage in these marriages down in the south.

While that is true, it's usually the ones forced into these "unions" that have several kids that end up street urchins.

That aside, most of these urchins in Lagos o arent Yoruba.

It's funny how when it comes to things like this, people remember Lagos is a Yoruba state. For everything else it's a "All Nigerian State"

Kobojunkie:

I don't know about them reading a different version of the koran, but I can tell you that they do not practise the same way the muslims in the north do. 5 of my primary school mates ended up getting married to men who already had wives, against the wish of their parents. lol . I had some more high school mates who had affairs and went on to marry older and already married men  in the name of love. All muslims but not the same as the north, at least the way I think it happens up there. During college, I noticed life changing for some of them. About 2 ended up out of their marriage for one reason or another; one ran away. My point is, they are not always forced into these things. Some of them choose against their own parents wishes to engage in these marriages down in the south.

I dont think I know much about that to raise an argument. So I would just take ur word for it.

About ur mates choosing to marry men who already have wives, all I can say is Wow!!!.

But I cant help but wonder,

How many muslim ladies end up in polygamous marriages in the south?
How many christian ladies end up in polygamous marriages in the south?

I dont know the answer to that but I have a hunch that the answer(s) would be interesting.

Uche2nna:

At least thats the stance of the article.

Well, give me an alternative hypothesis.

And U must be prepared to explain why it is more prevalent in these two areas

and what proof do you have to make you come to this conclusion. if u make this based on statistics then provide it. if its based on the article which in itself didnt do any research on the other regions of the country before postulating such then i wouldnt even bother trying to come up with any hypothesis to counter urs.

You speak as if naija women are idiots. At what point does society start making these women more responsible for their choices? You can not tell me that all of them were FORCED into such unions so why are you not scolding the stupid women in this case?

I agree with you, women need to be more responsible for their choices.
But at the same time, men need to stop being selfish and understand that Nigeria has been hit with poverty, therefore, impregnating more than one woman is just plain stupidity.
I mean, if you can't provide for them, why marry them to send them out to beg for food. If that does not signify evil, then I wonder what does?

Uche2nna:

I dont think I know much about that to raise an argument. So I would just take ur word for it.

About ur mates choosing to marry men who already have wives, all I can say is Wow!!!.

But I cant help but wonder,

How many muslim ladies end up in polygamous marriages in the south?
How many christian ladies end up in polygamous marriages in the south?

I dont know the answer to that but I have a hunch that the answer(s) would be interesting.

Well, having lived in the south, I can tell you that religion is not always by the book ( be it quran or Bible). People pick and choose mostly. lol

must_a_far:

and what proof do you have to make you come to this conclusion. if u make this based on statistics then provide it. i[b]f its based on the article which in itself didnt do any research on the other regions of the country before postulating[/b] such then i wouldnt even bother trying to come up with any hypothesis to counter urs.

Oh, well. U should have spent ur time , right from the get go, raising concerns about the veracity of the article. That to me is an entirely different line of discourse.

Since we dont have the same premise on this issue, we should not even be trading banter. I agree with U, dont bother.

HeatFusion:

I agree with you, women need to be more responsible for their choices.
But at the same time, men need to stop being selfish and understand that Nigeria has been hit with poverty, therefore, impregnating more than one woman is just plain stupidity.

Please, forgive me for saying this, but at this time, that is BULL CRAP! Women know that poverty has hit the country as well and in a big way. They know more than the men of what poverty can do to a family so, I am sorry but they need to be made to bear part of the responsibility in all. We have all lived in that country; we have all seen Nigerian men continue to make one idiotic mistake after another. By we, I mean men, women and children. So Sorry if I do not believe the men should continue to hear it. Women need to step up and do their part in all this. These woman are the mothers of the men who grow up to do stupid; women are the ones who send off their daughters into marriages knowing that there is the high possibility they are sending their child into hell. Come on!! It is time for the women to start taking part of the blame for the situation in that country.

HeatFusion:

I mean, if you can't provide for them, why marry them to send them out to beg for food. If that does not signify evil, then I wonder what does?

If you can’t provide for them why get pregnant with them? Why marry a man who cannot provide for you and then choose to allow yourself get pregnant knowing full well you do not have enough to take care of the kid?

Kobojunkie:

Well, having lived in the south, I can tell you that religion is not always by the book ( be it quran or Bible). People pick and choose mostly. lol

Right and most times we choose to our own convenience.

But I also think that there some people who dont even have the right/maturity to choose.

I happened to be in the North where a gal (of 16yrs) married a very important man in the area. He goes by the title " Mai Inguwa" meaning Owner of the area. Not only that this guy was already married to 3 women but he was also in his late 50's.

The parents of the bride were very happy with the union and as for the bride, I wouldnt know what she was thinking cos she just sat there with a solemn look on her face. Is that based on culture or religion?
The gal in question , obviously had no say in the matter, I think.

And this is exactly why I would that we focus on educating people; if anything, at least give this girl information to help her understand her place as human being on this planet so she does not go into this marriage feeling she has to accept anything as just her lot. In fact, if possible, I would rather we have more gals who find themselves in her place be able to stand up and say NO to this nonsense.

its more of a cultural thing than a religious thing.

must_a_far:

its more of a cultural thing than a religious thing.

I think so too.

Kobojunkie:

Please, forgive me for saying this, but at this time, that is BULL CRAP!

Give it any name you wish, the issue still stands as the case of disorder in the nation.

Kobojunkie:

Women know that poverty has hit the country as well and in a big way. They know more than the men of what poverty can do to a family so, I am sorry but they need to be made to bear part of the responsibility in all.

Are you trying to imply that the blame should on the women?
Some women that were given husbands without nay choice? Some women that were used as pawn?
Please, if religion was not applied, do you think this woman wouldn't do anything not to have their children suffering?
What I've come to learn about most Nigerian women is that they are mother first, before being a wife. They WILL do anything for their children.
This situation is also a result of lack of education and misinterpretation of the bible.
Polygamy another cause. Man 1 marries 5 women, possibly impregnates all of them. Now man one has a total of 20 children, making it a family of 26. 25 people he cannot provide for now has to suffer on the street and beg for feed while he carries his abunna to another woman.

Now don't you dare tell me that those women know their responsibilities and that they're just ignoring it.

Kobojunkie:

We have all lived in that country; we have all seen Nigerian men continue to make one idiotic mistake after another. By we, I mean men, women and children. So Sorry if I do not believe the men should continue to hear it. Women need to step up and do their part in all this. These woman are the mothers of the men who grow up to do stupid; women are the ones who send off their daughters into marriages knowing that there is the high possibility they are sending their child into hell. Come on!! It is time for the women to start taking part of the blame for the situation in that country.
If you can’t provide for them why get pregnant with them? Why marry a man who cannot provide for you and then choose to allow yourself get pregnant knowing full well you do not have enough to take care of the kid?

Like I said before, women, that do have choices, indeed need to step up and stop this crisis.
But I still say, if our men are blessed with common sense and a sense of responsibility, then we'd be seeing less female/children suffering.

@the bolded, that is rarely the case.
As the head of the family, in Nigeria, the man speaks for the family.
And as a muslim, do you think women barely get their voice heard? Are they not meant to be seen not heard?

must_a_far:

its more of a cultural thing than a religious thing.

If u say so

Hannibal, me sexist

yoruba muslims are typically more liberal than their Northern Counterparts. especially the yeye ones at Lagos and Ibadan .

The thread title is inflammatory by the way. typical nigeria1

HeatFusion:

Give it any name you wish, the issue still stands as the case of disorder in the nation.
Are you trying to imply that the blame should on the women?

What I am saying is the women are equally to blame and so we should stop reprimanding the men without making sure to offer an equal portion to the women.

HeatFusion:

Some women that were given husbands without nay choice? Some women that were used as pawn?

Please, even those are not stupid and not in the majority.

HeatFusion:

Please, if religion was not applied, do you think this woman wouldn't do anything not to have their children suffering?

LOL . . .  I lived in the south most all my life and I can tell you that NOT  EVERY WOMEN CARES FOR HER CHILDREN AS YOU THINK.  It is not about religion, it is a fact. Some women out there do not care and so they are willing to bring kids in to the world, knowing they cannot deal with them. You only need to look around to see what women do with these kids. From those getting pregnant simply so they can get the man to those willing to have as many as they can so they can be the most loved wife in the bunch. I am sorry, this is not religion at play here.

HeatFusion:

What I've come to learn about most Nigerian women is that they are mother first, before being a wife. They WILL do anything for their children.

Maybe we need to define what it really means to be a mother here. Is woman who chooses to bring 20 kids into the world more a mother than the one who knows she can only fend for 1 and chooses to bring in just that one, until such a time when she can afford more?  While you are at it, tell us who would be a good man/father? At least let us have some base to work with here.

A real mother, in my opinion, is one who is willing to put the interest of the child first, before hers. Now, mistakes do happen but not at the rate we have it happening in Nigeria with many of these so called CARING mothers.

HeatFusion:

This situation is also a result of lack of education and misinterpretation of the bible.
Polygamy another cause. Man 1 marries 5 women, possibly impregnates all of them. Now man one has a total of 20 children, making it a family of 26. 25 people he cannot provide for now has to suffer on the street and beg for feed while he carries his abunna to another woman.

Again  you are trying to play me the WOMEN ARE IDIOTS song. Next you will follow it with all 5 women, knowing full well that man 1 cannot take care of all the babies he has been popping out, continue to allow him to impregnate them out of love for their babies.  .  . COME ON!!

HeatFusion:

Now don't you dare tell me that those women know their responsibilities and that they're just ignoring it.

That is exactly what your example shows.

HeatFusion:

Like I said before, women, that do have choices, indeed need to step up and stop this crisis.
But I still say, if our men are blessed with common sense and a sense of responsibility, then we'd be seeing less female/children suffering.
@the bolded, that is rarely the case. As the head of the family, in Nigeria, the man speaks for the family. And as a muslim, do you think women barely get their voice heard? Are they not meant to be seen not heard?

Again, women are not stupid and so they can be the ones blessed with common sense and a sense of responsibility here, in fact they have a greater reason here; love for the welfare of their child would be enough reason for any woman to do all she can to ensure she only gets pregnant when she is ready to deal. 
As for muslim women not being able to stop themselves getting pregnant, I don’t buy that. This is the 21st century and we need to start treating everyone as if they live here with us – not continue to create cushions of stupidity for some while we do not provide same for others. Would you say a woman in a Christian marriage then should be held more accountable than a woman in a muslim marriage? Come on !!

Please, if religion was not applied, do you think this woman wouldn't do anything not to have their children suffering?

i don't think you understand the mentality the mentality of these women (usually illiterate). Lots of these women are full believers in the culture because they don't know better.

Like I said before, women, that do have choices, indeed need to step up and stop this crisis.

and who says most women don't have choices, birth control no dey? kids are a blessing from God. don't stop their blessing o

@Kobojunkie

What I am saying is the women are equally to blame and so we should stop reprimanding the men without making sure to offer an equal portion to the women.

Women should be blamed for what?
Ok, I agree, some shameless women should be blamed.
But I guarantee you that most of those women had no choice but one fate. Especially when their life is being destined by their earthly "owner".

Please, even those are not stupid and not in the majority.

Of course, no one claimed that they were stupid! It all comes down to superiority and choices.
Who is likely to be more superior, male for female?
Whose decision matters?

LOL . . . I lived in the south most all my life and I can tell you that NOT EVERY WOMEN CARES FOR HER CHILDREN AS YOU THINK. It is not about religion, it is a fact. Some women out there do not care and so they are willing to bring kids in to the world, knowing they cannot deal with them.

Well, I've lived in the SOUTHWEST some of my life, and I've got to tell you, the women I come across tend to do anything to care for their children.
Kobo, what fact? You telling me that religion does not play a role?

Maybe we need to define what it really means to be a mother here. Is woman who chooses to bring 20 kids into the world more a mother than the one who knows she can only fend for 1 and chooses to bring in just that one, until such a time when she can afford more? While you are at it, tell us who would be a good man/father? At least let us have some base to work with here.

LOL, a woman bringing 20 children into this world? se o fe pka ni?
kobo, don't put words in my mouth for the grace of God, I said 5 women bringing a total of 20 children into this world.

To be, there's a difference between being a mother and being called mother.
We seems to have been exposed to different terms "mother", my story, the women I know knows what being a mother is all about.

Again you are trying to play me the WOMEN ARE IDIOTS song. Next you will follow it with all 5 women, knowing full well that man 1 cannot take care of all the babies he has been popping out, continue to allow him to impregnate them out of love for their babies. . . COME ON!!

Kobo, shut up!!
Women are not idiots, some women, religious, they have no choice.
Some lack education enough to know how to prevent pregnancy.
And some were forced into the situation as a solution to poverty.

As for muslim women not being able to stop themselves getting pregnant, I don’t buy that.

Plz, don't buy it, sell it. [quote][/quote]

bawomolo:

i don't think you understand the mentality the mentality of these women (usually illiterate). Lots of these women are full believers in the culture because they don't know better.

Since education is not enforced, how should they know any better?
If they were educated about the consequences of marrying into a polygamous family and how to prevent unwanted pregnancy, you think they'd be in this situation?
If the men were ordered not to marry more than one wife, do you think they'd be in this situation?
If men were required license to have more than one wife, given that a minimum salary is required for a certain amount of wives, do you think women would be in this situation?

Men are to be blamed for this situation most of the time. They need to be issued chastity belt!!!

bawomolo:

and who says most women don't have choices, birth control no dey? kids are a blessing from God. don't stop their blessing o

and how many of these women are given the choices to be educated before they get carted off to their husband's house at the age of 8- up?

Kids are blessing from God, but God never asked you to misuse his blessing.

damn shame

 Women should be blamed for what?      

Woman should get the blame for choosing to bring a child in to this world for a looser father. And when I say looser father in this case, I mean a man that has proven he is not able to fend for her child.

 Ok, I agree, some shameless women should be blamed.

Whether you choose to tag them shameless or not, fact is we did not get to the stage we are not in that country, with millions of children living in poverty without the women contributing to the problem. Last I checked, men cannot have babies on their own. The woman carry the vessels for carrying babies to term and so woman are equally to blame for the littering of the streets with hungry child beggars.

 But I guarantee you that most of those women had no choice but one fate. Especially when their life is being destined by their earthly "owner".

I am sorry, the whole ARRANGED marriage deal, definitely happens more in the north than it does in the south, so please spare me your guarantee. In my knowledge that is seldom the case in the south. In fact, southerners are more cautious with their own kids than northerners are when it comes to arranged marriages. The Southerners tend to make sure that the man has money to offer before they give her away.

 Of course, no one claimed that they were  stupid! It all comes down to superiority and choices.
Who is likely to be more superior, male for female?
Whose decision matters?

Well, we might as well close case and accept that women should not even be allowed equal place in society if you are, in the year 2009, asking me such questions. Let us just pack this up and basically accept women are inferior and therefore deserve whatever comes to them.

Well, I've lived in the SOUTHWEST some of my life, and I've got to tell you, the women I come across tend to do anything to care for their children.
Kobo, what fact? You telling me that religion does not play a role?

The fact is caring or not caring for their kids is not about religion here. There are so many uncaring mothers in the south today that send their kids out to beg while they sit back at home expecting the kids to return to feed them. When you say Nigerian women are caring, I ask that you please be sure you know this to be a fact. We have women bringing in 4, 5 or even more kids they are financially and sometimes, physically unable to fend for, and they watch those babies die of hunger or one preventable disease. You come here to tell me that these are caring mothers?  May I please ask that you readjust your lenses here on what it means to be a caring mother and what it does not?

LOL, a woman bringing 20 children into this world? se o fe pka ni?
kobo, don't put words in my mouth for the grace of God, I said 5 women bringing a total of 20 children into this world.

I was going by your example of 5 women bringing a total of 20 kids in to the world. Are they not 5 stupid women in the example? ( assuming they did not all have quads the first time around). Lol

To be, there's a difference between being a mother and being called mother.
We seems to have been exposed to different terms "mother", my story, the women I know knows what being a mother is all about.

I am not so sure cause going by the examples you have given me so far, I see more of the first case than the latter.

Kobo, shut up!!
Women are not idiots, some women, religious, they have no choice. .

Religious woman have choices. No religion says you must have a child everytime your husband sleeps with you. None. No religion that I know of prohibits a woman from using her brain when the life of another( her unborn child) is on the line.

Some lack education enough to know how to prevent pregnancy.
And some were forced into the situation as a solution to poverty.

Sure, I will agree that there are those that lack education, and I do believe that in order to have them know they need to be educated in ways to prevent this, they ought also to know that they are to blame for the children being born in to such conditions as well. That way they go out and educate other women who are living in oblivion of this fact.
Please! Enough of the “Women are just insecure, and powerless Morons, so blame the men for it” excuse. Women need to start hanging their heads in shame when they continue to bring children into poverty (I know that mistakes). The world over, women are fighting for equal rights ,but here you are telling me that I should bake an EXCUSE CAKE for women in Nigeria, who continue to pop out thousands of hungry kids to fill our streets but lay the blame on the men for not having common sense? If the women gave the men common sense as children, maybe we would not have as many men with not a lot of it now, would we? ROFLMAO!!!

u talk about the yorubas littered with beggers?

Com'on, take a look at the Hausas for G O D's sake!!!!

Huh, Nigerians

Africans and Nigerians need to realize that children are not an asset anymore.
They are expensive in this day and age. You have grandmothers raising children in Africa. Never thought it would happen.