I disagree about the cultural thing.

Many Hausa xtians stillmarry one wife and the dont breed irresponsibly.

Hausa Moslems do it
Yoruba Moslems do it

Hausa Xtians dont do it
Yoruba xtians dont do it

Cant you all see that the religion is the common denominator here?

Has anyone here ever been to a xtian northern state before? E.g Plateau, Benue and tell us your experience.
They are almost as civilised as any SOuthern state if not more.

Kobojunkie:

I think so too.

I want to believe that the issue of marrying more than 1 wife is more of a cultural thing than religious thing and it also has to be identified as a disorder in the society.

talking about educating the women, i dunno how far it will go in helping this cause given the following examples below.

Just this saturday, Nafisa, the 21-yrs old President's daughter got married to the Bauchi State governor as the fourth wife. I'm told she schooled in the UK so what further education could have helped her. by the way, I think her education was a waste of tax payers money that was stolen to educate her. It's noteworhty also that her elder sister is married to Kebbi State governor not as first wife also. But the irony is their mum is an only wife! By the way, the wedding was a roll call of looters and would-be looters.

The Evil genius (IBB) also has a daughter married to the zamfara state governor (I think) as 2nd wife. she had all the education possible and we can't say money was her problem. Her father can make any man of her choice rich in 1 day and even make him governor in 2011.

The Adamawa state governor has four wives all of them with good education including Justice Nyako of Abuja High Court.

There are many muslims scattered over UK, US, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. and most do not have more than 1 wife.

I may not have addressed the post but suffice it to say, the issue of marrying many wives and I dare say, not fending for them is a northern culture to me rather than religious although some people have found it attractive in the south too.

stillwater:

If you make a concoction of the fact that a religion allows for begging and mix it with poverty, GBAM, there goes your SURGE. That is why the Yorubas are in the news today

Na career guide you dey teach us?

KarmaMod:

While that is true, it's usually the ones forced into these "unions" that have several kids that end up street urchins.

Yorubas don't force people into marital unions,it's Awusa's that do that. So the women involved did so on their own accord.

KarmaMod:

That aside, most of these urchins in Lagos o arent Yoruba.

It's funny how when it comes to things like this, people remember Lagos is a Yoruba state. For everything else it's a "All Nigerian State"

May be you don't know that alaaye is a very lucrative profession and over 90% of them are Yorubas. If you are not omo isale eko, no show for you, I tell you. I sabi lagos pass you wey be obodo oyibo pikin. Even those Yorubas from osun,Kwara or Ekiti find it difficult to rise to the top in the alaaye industry.

I disagree about the cultural thing.

Many Hausa xtians stillmarry one wife and the dont breed irresponsibly.

Hausa Moslems do it
Yoruba Moslems do it

Hausa Xtians dont do it
Yoruba xtians dont do it

Cant you all see that the religion is the common denominator here?

Has anyone here ever been to a xtian northern state before? E.g Plateau, Benue and tell us your experience.
They are almost as civilised as any SOuthern state if not more.

Let us be very careful when pointing religion as the major factor. While I agree that religion contributes to a large extent, there are other factors especially poverty. Some christians practice polygamy too and they breed children like dogs. The common factor here is poverty. University education now in Nigeria is very very expensive and things are getting worse because with time a civil servant that is earning about N100K a month cannot afford to train just one child in college. why make 20 children when you can hardly afford to pay for one?. the past generation may be ignorant about condoms and family planning but when i see the younger ones breeding like dogs, i cry. There is this muslim dude that helps me run around in lagos for my business for a stipend, can you imagine that he has 3 wives and 10 children and he is barely 40. You and I know that those children will pass through an eye of a needle to make it in life and street will be their best option.

Women should be blamed for what? Undecided
Ok, I agree, some shameless women should be blamed.
But I guarantee you that most of those women had no choice but one fate. Especially when their life is being destined by their earthly "owner".

it's nobody's fault actually. I'll rather blame it on illiteracy. I can comfortably claim here that igbo women are the most educated in Nigeria and it helped curtail polygamy in the east and set the men straight from irresponsible behavior. Most igbo parents make it a priority to educate their daughters even if it is at the expense of their sons and it's paying off. Educate those women and you'll see them running away from that polygamy nonsense, religion or no religion.

You cannot call them shameless either because you are not wearing their shoes. they that wear those shoes know where it pinches most. Poverty is evil.

May be you don't know that alaaye[b] is a very lucrative profession[/b] and over 90% of them are Yorubas. If you are not omo isale eko, no show for you, I tell you. I sabi lagos pass you wey be obodo oyibo pikin. Even those Yorubas from osun,Kwara or Ekiti find it difficult to rise to the top in the alaaye industry.

Just came across and read thru the discussion going on here.
I am a Muslim and a Yoruba. First and foremost, Islam does not sanction begging. In fact our Prophet(PBUH) explicitly warned against begging. He said ''going to the bush to get and sell firewoods is better than begging''. Imagine the indignity of being a firewood seller. We were warned that engagaing in that job is better than begging. That is how forbidden begging is in Islam. There is also a hadith that one traveller once came to Prophet and asked, among other questions,that ''I WANT PEOPLE TO RESPECT ME ALWAYS'' and the Prophet told him ''NEVER EXTEND YOUR HANDS OF NEEDS AT PEOPLE''.Begging brings dishonour and disrespect to people, and Islam frowns at that.Begging is only allowed in very rare, exceptional situation.

It is therefore clear that begging is not part of Islam.
However,only the blind will deny the fact that vast majority of the beggars in Nigeria are Muslims. This is very sad and unenviable, but that does not make it part of Islam.
The qur'anic schooling system in the north is a very good plan for transmitting knowledge from generation to generation. The almajiri practice, associated with it, is however wrong. The system needs to be reformed. Some state governments in the north have taken up this challenge, and we hope it's not going to be another political statement that will not see the light of the day. Western education may also be introduced into the system to ensure that these children get western education in addition to their Islamic training.

Coming to the south here, most of the beggars are actually not almajiri children(if we say almajiri children are Qur'anic school children).They are grown-ups,most of whom have one deformity or the other, and some physically able, with their children piloting them in the business. Pitiably, majority of these people are hausas again and Muslims. I think poverty and lack of education, more than religion, are largely responsible for this.
-Christians are more educated than Muslims
-Hausas are the least educated(no offence intended pls)

Poverty is rife in the south as it is in the north.But education, in a way, gives somebody a sense of shame. I therefore think the little education the poor Christians down south here have make them feel shy to openly beg as our equally poor Hausa and Yoruba Muslim brothers do.

http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/28937-almajiri-no-more-northern-affair.html

i wonder who lateesha is?  (some people have all the time in the world)

maybe i should start a thread about ibos littered with criminals:


http://www.modernghana.com/news/106841/1/nigerian-criminals-invade-ghana-.html

dayokanu:

I disagree about the cultural thing.

Many Hausa xtians stillmarry one wife and the dont breed irresponsibly.

Hausa Moslems do it
Yoruba Moslems do it

Hausa Xtians dont do it
Yoruba xtians dont do it

Cant you all see that the religion is the common denominator here?

Has anyone here ever been to a xtian northern state before? E.g Plateau, Benue and tell us your experience.
They are almost as civilised as any SOuthern state if not more.

ask 2face idibia  - or maybe he is muslim  ,  i wonder what you equate with civilisation -

perhaps the ibo's obssesion with lucre can also be linked to christianity - enogh fake drug barons were knighted by the church, if my memory serves me well. maybe their psychotic armed robbers, who gave rise to the dreaded bakassi boys are also linked to Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggar

excerpts:

There is also a long traditional of rather less spiritual beggars, in India and elsewhere, who are simply begging as a means to obtain material wealth. Some are even beggars for generations, and continue their family tradition of begging. A few beggars in the subcontinent even have sizable wealth, which they accumulate by "employing" other, newer beggars. They can claim to have territories, and then may engage in verbal and physical abuse of encroaching beggars.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States

excerpts

As many as 3.5 million people experience homelessness in a given year (1% of the entire U.S. population or 10% of its poor), and about 842,000 people in any given week.[10] Most were homeless temporarily. The chronically homeless population (those with repeated episodes or who have been homeless for long periods) fell from 175,914 in 2005 to 123,833 in 2007.[11]
Familial composition[12]
40% are families with children—the fastest growing segment.
41% are single males.
14% are single females.
5% are minors unaccompanied by adults.

1.37 million (or 39%) of the total homeless population are children under the age of 18.[12]
Ethnicity[12]
49% are African American (compared to 11% of general population).
35% are Caucasian (under-represented compared to 75% of general population).
13% are Hispanic (compared to 10% of general population).
2% are Native American (compared to 1% of general population).
1% are Asian-American (under-represented compared to 4% of general population).
Health-concerns.[10]
22% are considered to have serious mental illnesses, or are disabled.
30% have substance abuse problems.
3% report having HIV/AIDS.
26% report acute health problems other than HIV/AIDS such as tuberculosis, pneumonia, or sexually transmitted infections.
46% report chronic health conditions such as high blood pressure, diabetes, or cancer.
55% report having no health insurance (compared to 16% of general population).
58% report having trouble getting enough food to eat.
Backgrounds.[10]
23% are veterans (compared to 13% of general population).
25% were physically or sexually abused as children.
27% were in foster care or similar institutions as children.
21% were homeless at some point during their childhood.
54% were incarcerated at some point in their lives.
Education[13]
38% have less than a High School diploma.
34% have a High School diploma or equivalent (G.E.D.).
28% have more than a High School education.
Employment[14]
44% report having worked in the past week.
13% have regular jobs.
50% receive less than $300 per month as income.
Location.[10]
71% reside in central cities.
21% are in suburbs.
9% are in rural areas.

i suppose these homeless people are also muslims - if only they'd been born and raised as christians - this would never have happened. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Argentina

http://www.feliceslosninos.org/en/nosotros/situacion.html

yes - see the burgeoning army of homeless street  children - viva christainity !

Honestly the level of ignorance and lack of intellectual depth on NL is shameful. Here is a thread that we as nigerians most of us living abroad should have a real intellectual debate on the reality at hand but soo sad it has become an ANTI-MUSLIM thread.

Funny kobojunkie highlighted that he thinks this might just geberate into a tribal bashing and something similar is just playing out. Apart from OYB and kobojunkie i dont recall any sensible input on this thread.

Quote from Earthmama

[/quote]Did I not insinuate this few minutes ago?.  Those that are responsible know themselves. They litter our streets with hoodlums in the name of allah

Tell the Muslims to give up polygamy and maybe these hungry mouths will be able to catch some food

Here is a quote from Osisi

Next to Hausas,Yorubas have the next concentration of Muslims in Nigeria and it must be the Muslims amongst them giving a whole tribe of very hardworking people this bad name.[quote]

Honestly the quotes above just exemplifies the mindset of some Nigerians.

It is true almajiris in the north are muslims but just a simple intellectual research into islam would highlight to you street begging is forbidden in islam. As Oyb highlighted above you have this practice in India, Nepal  and so many poor countries.

Now how can we just insinuate that the southern beggers in the yourba lands are muslims. Rather than us debate the level of poverty in the society here we are dumping the blame at the doorstep of Islam.

Talking of Polygamy - i dont seem to understand when people restrict polygamy just to islam. Our fore fathers had been practising polygamy before any religion came to Nigeria. There are several christians that ppractise polygamy in the igbo lands and yourba lands. An example is our former president OBJ a friend of the highly rated Pastor Adeboye and who has been given the pulpit a few times to address christians. OBJ has several wives and children from at least 10 different women, Diya is a christian and has at least two wives, Bode George has several concubines all around town and he his christain. We are just a bunch of hypocritical people. It is somewhat ok for a man to have 1 wife and ten concubines like many southerners do but very wrong to have 2 wives and no concubine.

What has polygamy got to do with street begging? Are we saying children from monogamous homes don’t resort to begging as well?

“Islam is the problem becomes islam allows polygamy and polygamy is the cause of street beggars” This is the summary of the current trend of the debate and if we can take a minute to be objective it is such a senseless thought.

Poverty and lack of education is the cause and this is due to the lack of vision and selfishness of our leaders and not based on religion in the least. The funny thing is the looters in power are not religous bigots like most fellas here. There are united in thieving and currption but rather than we citizenry should be united in fighting them, here we are blaming begging on Islam. It is indeed shameful

@OYB

Thanks for the post. It is just absurd how people attach any bad thing happening to humanity to a faith. OBJ has a diploma in theology and increased Nigerias poverty, himself a polygamist , aggressively curropt. Is it fair to now say he his bad because he his christian? What significant thing did he do to reduce almajiri syndrome. Most of the nothern governors of those states were his pal and he never arrested nor prosecuted any of them.

Lets shed religious bigotry and learn to view issues from another angle.

True talk Lagosboy

@DayoKanu, I seriously hope you do not believe all that you posted above.

jacobs123:

I want to believe that the issue of marrying more than 1 wife is more of a cultural thing than religious thing and it also has to be identified as a disorder in the society.

talking about educating the women, i dunno how far it will go in helping this cause given the following examples below.

Just this saturday, Nafisa, the 21-yrs old President's daughter got married to the Bauchi State governor as the fourth wife. I'm told she schooled in the UK so what further education could have helped her. by the way, I think her education was a waste of tax payers money that was stolen to educate her. It's noteworhty also that her elder sister is married to Kebbi State governor not as first wife also. But the irony is their mum is an only wife! By the way, the wedding was a roll call of looters and would-be looters. The Evil genius (IBB) also has a daughter married to the zamfara state governor (I think) as 2nd wife. she had all the education possible and we can't say money was her problem. Her father can make any man of her choice rich in 1 day and even make him governor in 2011.

The Adamawa state governor has four wives all of them with good education including Justice Nyako of Abuja High Court.

I am not against polygamy at all but I would not be caught dead in one of those relationships. Education will definitely not eliminate that desire to have or be in a polygamous relationship but at least it would add some needed layer of shame to the idea of having kids one is not able to fend for. If a rich man chooses to marry 20 wives and all 20 women agree to this, and it is legal, I see nothing wrong with it. What I have a problem with is the idea that WOMEN ARE IDIOTS and so should not be held responsible for their choosing to continue to have babies they are unable to adequately fend for.

jacobs123:

There are many muslims scattered over UK, US, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. and most do not have more than 1 wife.

I may not have addressed the post but suffice it to say, the issue of marrying many wives and I dare say, not fending for them is a northern culture to me rather than religious although some people have found it attractive in the south too.

The issue of having more than one wife is not a problem to me and is certainly not the main issue being addressed in the article. Even persons in monogamous relationships, Christians and Muslims, Hausas, Yorubas and Ibos need to understand they can not continue to have children they are unable to fend for and feel it is not their fault.

Only a couple of months ago, I saw a documentary on PBS on the issue of poverty in Ethiopia. I am not sure what faith these people belonged to but what was clear was that even in poverty, many of the women were busy popping out babies, most of which do not live past age 1 due to starvation and death by preventable disease. Now, think about this for a second. Why would a caring woman choose to, knowing there is no food to feed herself or even her husband, choose to have yet another baby, and another and another? WHY? Are these caring mothers?

There are bound to be more, a nation where they produce nothing, import everything and the dollar rate is over the roof.
A nation where everyone will jack price up at every single rate of dollar rise, and the price will never come down.

;d

.

tpia:

um, can you lay off your morbid predilections once in a while.

Today alone I'm reading about the Iceland govt collapsing on account of recession, tens of thousands more layoffs announced in the US, and just general worry all over the world and this kind of continuous half-truths by some typical nagging Nigerian bushmen, can get irritating sometimes.

Erhmmm our problems have existed long before the current global recession, it's only natural for him to have morbid thoughts this early.

Erhmmm our problems have existed long before the current global recession, it's only natural for him to have morbid thoughts this early.

Lol, I guess it's our way of life now. Global recession shouldn't be an excuse now for our hardship. I guess we have the advantage of living with it without so much chaos like the westerners. Pain can be beneficial sometimes.

oyb kicks redhottrick in the ass with heavy duty steel toed engineering boots!

"ow! why did you do that"

"pain is beneficial sometimes. this will shut you up and we will all benefit from that "

earTHMama:

Lol, I guess it's our way of life now. Global recession shouldn't be an excuse now for our hardship. I guess we have the advantage of living with it without so much chaos like the westerners. Pain can be beneficial sometimes.

Hehehe, what a laugh!!!

ask 2face idibia Grin - or maybe he is muslim Grin, i wonder what you equate with civilisation -

perhaps the ibo's obssesion with lucre can also be linked to christianity - enogh fake drug barons were knighted by the church, if my memory serves me well. maybe their psychotic armed robbers, who gave rise to the dreaded bakassi boys are also linked to Christianity.

Using one person again to judge a whole state. I think you have serious issues.

49% are African American (compared to 11% of general population).

First and foremost, every African American is not christian and their family structure is akin to the polygamous setting in Nigeria. One common ground here is the men are breeding with as many women as possible and that is why their poverty rate is the highest in the US. Compare that with the situation in Yorubaland today and you'll see that although the word 'marriage' is attached to it, it's basically the same thing. African Americans are still better off because they have a working system, a welfare, school loans and all that. Who will give all those kids you are breeding in the name of Allah school loans? OIC or what?. You must be delusional. All I ask is for you guys to look at what is on our plate and stop populating Yorubaland with almajiris.

earTHMama:

Using one person again to judge a whole state. I think you have serious issues.

First and foremost, every African American is not christian and their family structure is akin to the polygamous setting in Nigeria. One common ground here is the men are breeding with as many women as possible and that is why their poverty rate is the highest in the US. Compare that with the situation in Yorubaland today and you'll see that although the word 'marriage' is attached to it, it's basically the same thing. African Americans are still better off because they have a working system, a welfare, school loans and all that. Who will give all those kids you are breeding in the name of Allah school loans? OIC or what?. You must be delusional. All I ask is for you guys to look at what is on our plate and stop populating Yorubaland with almajiris.

please tell me - are the majority of African Americans not raised as Christian and with christian values?

you seem to be switching your argument - now uncontrolled procreation is a black thing. . .

i suppose the women the men are breeding with are doing it against their will

please tell me - are the majority of African Americans not raised as Christian and with christian values?

You need to leave that your village and travel for once. Do you even have a passport?.Majority of them do not have any religion at all even though they will tell you they are largely baptist. What kind of christian goes to church only once a year and some dont even go at all. Americans are not as religious as you think. Get your facts right.

you seem to be switching your argument - now uncontrolled procreation is a black thing. . . Grin

i suppose the women the men are breeding with are doing it against their will

Religion is a very powerful tool over a man's psyche. Your 'group' use that to dominate your women and education contributes it's own quota. That is why i think you are an educated illiterate. If you think Igbos are thugs and all that but turn a blind eye to yorubas doing the same, then you need to see a shrink. Come to MD, over 90% of WEWE boys are yorubas. Ask anybody that desires to tell you an unalloyed truth. At home, your religious group are replenishing our population through polygamy. If polygamy fueled by religion is not the problem, why the surge in area boys in the west? . Can you compare their population to the population of thugs in the east or south south?. Get real my friend and stop yarning bull shit because you wanna be a tribal bigot. If Yoruba christians did it, then your muslims brothers can do it. 80% of the successful families in yorubaland can be traced to their christian background, Go figure. You may also tell me how many of Abiola's over 100 children as rich as he was are up and about. Bloody gay.

see nairaland's most notorious ashawo fresh from spreading her legs in sexuality threads calling me gay

wetin dey happen ? because i no gree join the train on your ass? ?

if you take a quick shot of penicllin, it ill clear the fog tertiary syphilis has made in your brain long enough for you to come to terms with the fact that most of my knocking on your new found friends is in response to their attacks on muslims.

Roflmao!!!

if you take a quick shot of penicllin, it ill clear the fog tertiary syphilis has made in your brain long enough for you to come to terms with the fact that most of my knocking on your new found friends is in response to their attacks on muslims.

People like you walk around with your manliness in your hand believing that penicillin will cure you. Syphillis is an incurable disease and no amount of penicillin can make it go away. Do you have one?. Eheww

na wa o. enough hate to make isreal and palestine seem like preamble.

earTHMama:

People like you walk around with your manliness in your hand believing that penicillin will cure you. Syphillis is an incurable disease and no amount of penicillin can make it go away. Do you have one?. Eheww

ouch. forgot that you are a pharmacist. so you actually do know something. . .i truly thought that skull of your was a new design, intended to house hot air. . .

though your knowledge of the drugs for STDs undoubtedly arises from your familiarity with STDs  

ouch. forgot that you are a pharmacist. so you actually do know something. . .i truly thought that skull of your was a new design, intended to house hot air. . .

though your knowledge of the drugs for STDs undoubtedly arises from your familiarity with STDs

I repeat, if you have syphilis, Herpes or HIV, stay away from our women because you will be doing Nigeria more harm than breeding children. Why am I wasting my time here with this nincompoop?.

.