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Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Sissy3(f): 10:41pm On May 11, 2009
Tgirl4real:

Lol @ u guys. I am sorry I have been away and I will still be away for sometym. I read dis thread a couple of days ago, but I couldn't finish up. Thanx to u all for keeping it real.

@ Sissy, who be FL Gators again? Don't tell me it's my Ebony. . . Lol.

I am trying to talk Seun into getting a co-mod. Ebony, wetin do ur ID na?

gal glad u bck and ok. really miss ya presence sad sad

LOL Ebony is a case! grin grin grin grin grin
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by FLGators1: 11:37pm On May 12, 2009
@Sissy
na me be case?

Abi wetin I do to the bobo? grin grin

e be like say he wan stroke our love fire grin grin grin



Lol @ u guys. I am sorry I have been away and I will still be away for sometym. I read dis thread a couple of days ago, but I couldn't finish up. Thanx to u all for keeping it real.

@ Sissy, who be FL Gators again? Don't tell me it's my Ebony. . . Lol.

I am trying to talk Seun into getting a co-mod. Ebony, wetin do ur ID na?

LOL, welcome back. kiss kiss

Nothing do my ID tongue tongue
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by netotse(m): 10:02am On May 13, 2009
FL Gators!:

@Sissy
na me be case?

Abi wetin I do to the bobo? grin grin

e be like say he wan stroke our love fire grin grin grin



LOL, welcome back. kiss kiss

Nothing do my ID tongue tongue
next thing someone'll be calling me a master derailer
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Nobody: 12:27am On May 15, 2009
netotse:

next thing someone'll be calling me a master derailer
After so long, you came back with this? undecided
No hi no hello, no how you dey toyin?

Oya, go back to where you came from tongue



@topic
How do you stop a toddler from ging inside the fridge,taking out the stuff inside and pouring it on the floor?

Terrible two is his baby chiar as a climing stool to get to th mixer, pouring eggs, milk, cheese, etc and trying to mix them.

I can't leave him for 5 mins withot finding the kitchen all messed up undecided
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by netotse(m): 11:35am On May 15, 2009
awwww. . .oya come and collect a hug(see ur mouth like fish! [size=5pt]*i really need to stop saying that*[/size])
BTW we saw a croc on sunday guess who it reminded me of?


@question
its simple, lock the fridge, its one of those things u're sure wont result in a bad habit in future(unless the child is the reincarnation of chucky) so there's no need to apply any advanced principles here. . .(besides a a fridge is something that children should not be allowed to play with who knows what cld happen)
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Nobody: 1:00am On May 16, 2009
awwww. . .oya come and collect a hug(see ur mouth like fish! *i really need to stop saying that*)
BTW we saw a croc on sunday guess who it reminded me of?
rotflmao, you better stop it, alright angry tongue
FYI, my mouth be like Gator, not fish cool

Hmm, me? tongue tongue
B,T,W Why do ppl continue to call me Crocs, Gators and Crocs are diff animals. Like hello! cool cool


@question
its simple, lock the fridge, its one of those things u're sure wont result in a bad habit in future(unless the child is the reincarnation of chucky) so there's no need to apply any advanced principles here. . .(besides a a fridge is something that children should not be allowed to play with who knows what cld happen)

Yea, lock the fridge. Bright Idea.

So what happens when we lost the key?

No food till the lock is broken?
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by netotse(m): 5:49pm On May 17, 2009
FL Gators:

Hmm, me? tongue tongue
B,T,W Why do ppl continue to call me Crocs, Gators and Crocs are diff animals. Like hello! cool cool

i figured u were going to say that!(babe they're both amphibians as warri ppl would say. . .all join!)



FL Gators:

Yea, lock the fridge. Bright Idea.

So what happens when we lost the key?

No food till the lock is broken?
my thought: lost the fridge key, how careless!
my other thoughts:come to think of it the fridge in the kitchen doesnt hv a key. . .(i plead male chauvinism)

ummmm wellllll u cld carry the child to the nearest MFM church for deliverance, if that doesnt work then u shld treat it the same way u'd treat the child disobeying u

better yet u need to make the child understand that there's stuff u can play wiv and stuff u cant. . .the fridge is for adults to play wiv get him/she a substitute!
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Nobody: 11:09pm On May 18, 2009
netotse:

i figured u were going to say that!(babe they're both amphibians as warri ppl would say. . .all join!)
the child understand that there's stuff u can play wiv and stuff u cant. . .the fridge is for adults to play wiv get him/she a substitute!
But crocodile stinks, Gators don't tongue

netotse:

my thought: lost the fridge key, how careless!
my other thoughts:come to think of it the fridge in the kitchen doesnt hv a key. . .(i plead male chauvinism)

ummmm wellllll u cld carry the child to the nearest MFM church for deliverance, if that doesnt work then u shld treat it the same way u'd treat the child disobeying u

better yet u need to make the child understand that there's stuff u can play wiv and stuff u cant. . .the fridge is for adults to play wiv get him/she a substitute!
On a serious note, am not going to be the only one using the key.
So others that use it and do not return it back to the OP nko? Even the baby could have gotten his claws on the key.
I think your idea is okay, it just lacks convenience.

LOL @ deliverance, is that what they did to you? tongue tongue

Have you forgotten that the child is 2? How can he understand that?
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by MadMax1(f): 2:02pm On May 20, 2009
We're adopting. You know how you meet a kid and know he's your son or daughter, even if you're not the biological parents? Well-
The problem is, do we let the child know he's adopted or not? I'm not in favour of letting him know, I think it's irrelevant and might create unnecessary,avoidable psychological barriers between us and our kid. There are differences between how kids relate with their parents, and with people they might come to regard as just playing 'mom' and 'dad', like trustees or something.

We're really torn up about this. We really love him, and no doubt we'll meet his brothers and sisters in other places and bring them home too. Should they be told they're adopted?Does it matter? I really need good advice about this.
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Nobody: 4:47pm On May 20, 2009
tell them now when they are young before someone else does

if you tell them when they are older then they'll begin to question everything you've ever done for them.
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Nobody: 1:27am On May 22, 2009
Tell them at an age you KNOW they'll understand.
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by vescucci(m): 4:06pm On May 22, 2009
FL Gators:

Tell them at an age you KNOW they'll understand.



Best and most succinct advice here. I completely think the same thing. Either you run off to Nepal and with the adopted kid and come back and pass it as yours (so nobody but you and your man knows) or you take the advice cuz somebody will definitely let it slip. That I assure you.
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by mohawkchic(f): 6:23pm On May 22, 2009
Mad_Max:

We're adopting. You know how you meet a kid and know he's your son or daughter, even if you're not the biological parents? Well-
The problem is, do we let the child know he's adopted or not? I'm not in favour of letting him know, I think it's irrelevant and might create unnecessary,avoidable psychological barriers between us and our kid. There are differences between how kids relate with their parents, and with people they might come to regard as just playing 'mom' and 'dad', like trustees or something.

We're really torn up about this. We really love him, and no doubt we'll meet his brothers and sisters in other places and bring them home too. Should they be told they're adopted?Does it matter? I really need good advice about this.




~Yes! Yes! & Yes! To all three Q's . . .here's why . . . . .

~I totally understand you feeling telling the child will create "unnecessary,avoidable psychological barriers between you and the child" but not telling the Child will be a "Secret" . . .whatever you look at it!! As much as your intensions for Not telling are well founded,those same feelings you fear will create barries if the child becomes aware they're adopted & you've been keeping it a secret,i think it will be much worse if the child by then has grown up to be an Adolescence/Adult!

~The way i see it,its a double edge sword between telling the child & in some cases having to deal w/ the child ask Questions about their birth parents,the constant reassurance you'll have to give that child to make them understand they hadnt done nothing wrong or their Birth parents didnt want them. . . .

. . . .And not telling the child & having to deal with mistrust issues,defend your reasons for not telling etc Having said that tho,every Individual is differnt so you wudnt likely have to deal w/ scenarios listed!

~I'll Suggest You read up on the Pros & Cons of Not Telling/Telling the child,see what challenges lies ahead,you should be able to make a decision . . .

~Ideally,On the basic of telling the child,if the child isnt already at an age wherein they're aware they are adopted,some Experts suggest 2-4 yrs . . .i have to say tho the Experts cant agree on when's the best age to tell the child . . .


"Many experts believe the child should be told at the youngest possible age. This approach provides the child an early opportunity to accept and integrate the concept of being "adopted." Other experts believe that telling a child too early may confuse the young child who can't really understand the information. These experts advise waiting until the child is older.


In either case, children should learn of their adoption from the adoptive parents. This helps give the message that adoption is good and that the child can trust the parents. If the child first learns about the adoption intentionally or accidentally from someone other than parents, the child may feel anger and mistrust towards the parents, and may view the adoption as bad or shameful because it was kept a secret. "




"Several excellent children's story books are available in bookstores and libraries which can help parents tell the child about being adopted. Children have a variety of responses to the knowledge that they are adopted. Their feelings and responses depend on their age and level of maturity. The child may deny the adoption or create fantasies about it. Frequently, adopted children hold onto beliefs that they were given away for being bad or may believe that they were kidnapped. If the parents talk openly about the adoption and present it in a positive manner, these worries are less likely to develop."


Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by MadMax1(f): 7:45pm On May 22, 2009
Thanks FL, Salsera & Vesc. I truly appreciate that.

mohawkchic:

[color=#550000]~Yes! Yes! & Yes! To all three Q's . . .here's why . . . . .

~I totally understand you feeling telling the child will create "unnecessary,avoidable psychological barriers between you and the child" but not telling the Child will be a [b]"Secret" . . .whatever you look at it!! As much as your intensions for Not telling are well founded,those same feelings you fear will create barries if the child becomes aware they're adopted & you've been keeping it a secret,i think it will be much worse if the child by then has grown up to be an Adolescence/Adult![/b]

~The way i see it,its a double edge sword between telling the child & in some cases having to deal w/ the child ask Questions about their birth parents,the constant reassurance you'll have to give that child to make them understand they hadnt done nothing wrong or their Birth parents didnt want them. . . .

. . . .And not telling the child & having to deal with mistrust issues,defend your reasons for not telling etc Having said that tho,every Individual is differnt so you wudnt likely have to deal w/ scenarios listed!

~I'll Suggest You read up on the Pros & Cons of Not Telling/Telling the child,see what challenges lies ahead,you should be able to make a decision . . .

~Ideally,On the basic of telling the child,if the child isnt already at an age wherein they're aware they are adopted,some Experts suggest 2-4 yrs . . .i have to say tho the Experts cant agree on when's the best age to tell the child . . .


"Many experts believe the child should be told at the youngest possible age. This approach provides the child an early opportunity to accept and integrate the concept of being "adopted." Other experts believe that telling a child too early may confuse the young child who can't really understand the information. These experts advise waiting until the child is older.


In either case, children should learn of their adoption from the adoptive parents. This helps give the message that adoption is good and that the child can trust the parents. If the child first learns about the adoption intentionally or accidentally from someone other than parents, the child may feel anger and mistrust towards the parents, and may view the adoption as bad or shameful because it was kept a secret. "

"Several excellent children's story books are available in bookstores and libraries which can help parents tell the child about being adopted. [b]Children have a variety of responses to the knowledge that they are adopted. Their feelings and responses depend on their age and level of maturity. The child may deny the adoption or create fantasies about it. Frequently, adopted children hold onto beliefs that they were given away for being bad or may believe that they were kidnapped. If the parents talk openly about the adoption and present it in a positive manner, these worries are less likely to develop."[/[/b]color]

What an eye-opener. I've been worried about what happens when we have biological children, and other things. I don't want a 'their real kids' and 'us' psychological split. I figured if none of them know we'll all integrate better, and by the time they do know we can't un-integrate; it wouldn't mean a thing. There really isn't a difference;biological or adopted, they're ours. But the thought of 'secrets' and having someone else let it slip is awful. We can't live like that.
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Nobody: 8:46pm On May 22, 2009
Mad_Max:

Thanks FL, Salsera & Vesc. I truly appreciate that.

What an eye-opener. I've been worried about what happens when we have biological children, and other things. I don't want a 'their real kids' and 'us' psychological split. I figured if none of them know we'll all integrate better, and by the time they do know we can't un-integrate; it wouldn't mean a thing. There really isn't a difference;biological or adopted, they're ours. But the thought of 'secrets' and having someone else let it slip is awful. We can't live like that.

I'm sorry to say this, but trying to protect the kid(s) from the truth is really not the ideal way to deal with a situation.
Somehow, someway, the truth is going to leak out. When day comes, whatever happened at night becomes revealed.

Personally, I think your move is selfish.
Are you really trying to protect them or are you trying to safe yourself from the "You're not my parents" drama?

The psychological split you're trying to prevent is inevitable.
Kids are kids, they speak out of turn, they act out of vexation.
No matter how loving they are to each other, one day, they WILL utter those statement.
I mean, c'mon, even biological siblings say some condescending verbs to each other, they even sometimes feel that one of them is being loved more than the other.

Well, my advice is this, tell them when you KNOW they can handle it.
Waiting till they grow up to tell them will be heart shattering and harder to swallow.
You don't want them thinking their whole life has been a lie, do you?
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Sissy3(f): 11:23pm On May 22, 2009
Mad, this is really a hard one i must admit. Adoption is a subtle issue.

one of my relative adopted a boy and a girl that their moms abandoned, (they weren't related though) and she raising them up, they are now in their tweens and they call her mom and she really spoils those kids. however, one day the boy came home crying and he went and told the mom how one woman was telling him and his sister to "go and find out where they were picked up from" as if they were garbage dumped on the side of the road. and this wasn't the first time this has happened, so he wanted to know exactly why that lady keep telling them that.

all she could do at that moment was only to console them and trying diverting away from the issue, telling how them not to mind her blah blah. though inside she was uncomfortable with it and telling those kids at age wasn't right cox they wouldn't comprehend what in the hell she was blahing knowing how they have from little kids called her mom. till now, she is yet to tell them, though they are still growing i think she is waiting for the right time to really tell them about this in a way they will fully understand and be able to reason with her.

telling any child they were adopted is hard both for the child and the parents too. there are stereotypes people tend to associate with "adoption", so many a times parents are a little hesitant about letting the cat out of the box, which is very understandable.  

Personally, i think the days of hiding the truth about adoption are now history. it is better you use your mouth and kindly explain to them about how they came to be than for them to eventually find out from their friends, or other people cause honestly, those people will make fun of it, and oftentimes in a very harsh tone, which isnt a pretty picture cause then if you have a lot to explain and the trust issue between both of you might be weaken cause the child might not understand the reasons you didn't tell him/her early so as to be ready for any flare up.

telling them when they are young i think is better cause they will tend to adjust better to it than telling them when they are older which they may see as a betrayal. gradually introduce the concept of being "adopted" as being very special. whenever you decide to tell him/her that he/her was so special, that why you chose him/her to be your child. and that you love them so very much. use gentle and simple words that wouldn't complicate or confuse things. There’s no easy way to have the conversation or guarantees on how your child will react. The only way to prepare is to build an open and honest relationship with your adopted child and to confront the subject directly.

whatever decision you use to embark on please always remember to put the interest of the child as a priority.  the secret wouldn't be held for a long time before it is eventually known one way or the other. It is important to establish a bond of trust and honesty with your child.
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Sissy3(f): 7:51am On May 23, 2009
@ Ebony

Why not maybe try using an motion alarm. you put it in the refrigerator and whenever he opens it, the alarm will sound and maybe deter him from at least taking a peck. this will keep him at bay from the fridge for a little longer maybe.

or try Fridge Guard Appliance Child Lock it is a plastic refrigerator safety latch appropriate for his age
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Sissy3(f): 8:17am On May 23, 2009
or motion detectors and attach them.  the second pic is a no no,  it kinda looks too drastic. if only the child has eating disorder then it might have been appropriate
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by MadMax1(f): 6:14pm On May 23, 2009
Hmmm. I've never had a 'You're not my parents' drama before, and don't know enough about it to want to save myself from it. Frankly, the thought never occurred to me. All my thoughts are for my boy. I didn't think about how not saying anything might constitute a lie by 'omission', and a 'secret', and I made it plain we can't live that way.

~Sissy~:

Mad, this is really a hard one i must admit. Adoption is a subtle issue.
telling them when they are young i think is better cause they will tend to adjust better to it than telling them when they are older which they may see as a betrayal. gradually introduce the concept of being "adopted" as being very special. whenever you decide to tell him/her that he/her was so special, that why you chose him/her to be your child. and that you love them so very much. use gentle and simple words that wouldn't complicate or confuse things. There’s no easy way to have the conversation or guarantees on how your child will react. The only way to prepare is to build an open and honest relationship with your adopted child and to confront the subject directly.

I love idea of 'adoption' as 'being very special'. It actually made me smile. Hmmmm. Thanks.
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Nobody: 6:43pm On May 23, 2009
~Sissy~:

@ Ebony

Why not maybe try using an motion alarm. you put it in the refrigerator and whenever he opens it, the alarm will sound and maybe deter him from at least taking a peck. this will keep him at bay from the fridge for a little longer maybe.

or try Fridge Guard Appliance Child Lock it is a plastic refrigerator safety latch appropriate for his age

I never knew there was a Fridge Guard Appliance Child lock and a motion alarm fro fridge.

Well, I won't have to go through with this troublemaker for long, but I'll tell his mom about it wink

~Sissy~:

or motion detectors and attach them. the second pic is a no no, it kinda looks too drastic. if only the child has eating disorder then it might have been appropriate
That's the thing! He doesn't eat all those stuff, just plays chef with it. embarassed

Mad_Max:

Hmmm. I've never had a 'You're not my parents' drama before, and don't know enough about it to want to save myself from it. Frankly, the thought never occurred to me. All my thoughts are for my boy. I didn't think about how not saying anything might constitute a lie by 'omission', and a 'secret', and I made it plain we can't live that way.
Don't omit anything. Let it out
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Sissy3(f): 7:00pm On May 23, 2009
@ ebony

the boy is probably just curious as to what is inside the fridge cheesy cheesy
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Nobody: 11:49pm On May 23, 2009
~Sissy~:

@ ebony

the boy is probably just curious as to what is inside the fridge cheesy cheesy
I thinks he's more curious about the "sensitive" touch of his father's belt.




ahhh jokin cheesy cheesy
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Sissy3(f): 12:09am On May 24, 2009
lol ;d ;d ;d ;d
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by sistawoman: 3:48am On May 27, 2009
I cant tell parents how important it is to take a CPR class.

Tonight my youngest (7) was eating some pizza and talking, I was on the front porch when he started to choke. I ran in the house and did three Heimlich maneuver and out came a very large piece of cheese.

When I came in the house his face was red and he was having a very hard time breathing. My baby was dieing right in front of me. I was able to hold my composure and perform the maneuver and get the cheese out but that is because I have taken a CPR class and God was watching over me to help me perform it correctly.

I cant describe the fear that over came me the minute my child was safe. I cried for 30 mins and am still tearing up now as I type. My training equipped me with the skills to be able to save his life. There is no way EMS would have made it here on time. As I think back on it, it scares me to think how close I came to loosing him.

Please, please, please dont put it off. Take your CPR class ASAP.

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec24/ch299/ch299d.html
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Sissy3(f): 4:02am On May 27, 2009
glad u were able to revive him before it was too late. yup, cpr is important and having a first aid kit at home too. hope he is okay now.
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by sistawoman: 4:06am On May 27, 2009
~Sissy~:

glad u were able to revive him before it was too late. yup, cpr is important and having a first aid kit at home too.

We have three first aid kits in the house one on each level and one in each vechile.  I restock them every Christmas when I do my Xmas shopping.  That way I know they are done every year and dont have to worry about items missing or expiring.  We buy during the year but at Xmas I alwasy have Flexspending left over and I also buy all my meds for the rest of the winter, like childrens asprin, pepto etc.

I am so happy I was right there and my daughter yelled that gave me a good extra few seconds before I would have heard him.

Thank you God. Thank you God.
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Nobody: 1:19pm On May 27, 2009
Thanks Sis. I already renewed my CPR/ First Aid license tongue

Even though I still prefer not to do any mouth to mouth lipsrsealed lipsrsealed
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Sissy3(f): 10:07pm On May 27, 2009
FL Gators:


Even though I still prefer not to do any mouth to mouth lipsrsealed lipsrsealed

hehehe dnt think u will even remember dat one when the time comes cuz u will be more focused on saving the child grin grin grin
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Nobody: 2:03am On May 28, 2009
~Sissy~:

hehehe dnt think u will even remember dat one when the time comes cuz u will be more focused on saving the child grin grin grin
Oh no, I'm not talking about pediatric CPR. I'm talking about regular CPR, and you gotta do it if you have the license.

Thats why I prefer walking the opposite direction anytime I see that kinda problem on campus cheesy cheesy
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Sissy3(f): 2:05am On May 28, 2009
FL Gators:


Thats why I prefer walking the opposite direction anytime I see that kinda problem on campus cheesy cheesy

OMG! lmao!!!!!!! grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by mohawkchic(f): 2:28am On May 28, 2009
~As a Parent or Guardian/Cousin/Sister/Aunt/Uncle,the most scary thing that can happen to you is having a child do the "disappearing act" on you . . for Instant while shopping or out & about!!It only takes a second for this to happen & kids as we know they are a lil bit too adventurous & get distracted easily . .

~First time it happened to me i nearly peed myself w/ Worry/Panic . . .i was getting money out of the Cash Point . . .my all to eager 3 yr old at the time wanted to punch in the code,which he did,for a spilt second when i focused on the ATM's option of "Would You Like A Receipt" & get the money out,my son has disappeared from right beside me!! I immediately paniced when i looked around & cudnt see him . .I dont even recall dropping my Shopping bags/Handbag/Wallet. . . . words cannot describe how i felt at that moment,my tummy was doing funny noises . . i was hyperventilating! i just stood right there & screamed his name,everyone stopped/turned. . .some stared at me,some enquired what's up? I just cudnt get my mind to focus on the colour of clothes he had on as people enquired,i just kept thinking,His name & my contact details are written on his Jacket . . .i was shaking like a leaf thro a windy storm!! All tips i've read up on losing a child had gone right off my head. . . .i was going round in circles sobbing & screaming my son's name,then out of nowhere he appeared distraught & crying "Mummy" . . . I got down on my knees & bundled him up crying uncontrolably & repeating "Dont You Ever Do this to me again!"! He'd wandered into a store he'd spoted "Teletubbies Toys". . i tell you what! I never want to feel like that Again!!



~Pray to God you dont experience this but should you find yourself in this suitation,here are a few tips i got form a child safety leaflet on how to keep a child "Safe & Found" . .



Child Safety Tips

~Encourage children to stay close to you at all times & keep them within your sight!

~Arrange a meeting point for kids a lil bit older just in case you get lost where you should meet up

~Dont leave a child unsupervised . .

~If You have to,use reins or wrist Links {Almost every child i've been around hate them but it helps knowing they are at the end of that link}

~Make Sure your child knows Never to walk away with a Stranger{this is a bit tricky,considering the child is lost &  it will be a stranger who'll walk up to them . . }


~If You Lose a Child. . .

1.Stop,Stand Still & Look,Dont Run About

2.Stay close to where you last saw the child

3.For parents,carry an Up to date Photo

4.Always try to make a note of what the child is wearing

5.Get someone to Alert Security or look for "Child Safe Zones" stickers In some Shopping Malls
Re: Parental Guide: Bringing Up A Child by Sissy3(f): 3:07am On May 28, 2009
nice tips MC smiley smiley

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