Our problem as Ibime, SapeleGuy and naijaking1 is the structure of the country. There is too much power in the centre, which makes it attractive to all sorts of miscreants, who use all manner of under hand means to get to the honey pot. Those that are well meaning are pushed out because they are too principled to apply dubious and criminal means to get their way.

Decrease the power in the centre and all problems go away, there will be no almighty battle for an FG seat and the country will not be thrown on the brink simply because the president is ill. Rotational presidency is just about who loots the wealth of the masses next, we need to restructure the country and do away with it once and for all.

The best thing is OUTRIGHT separation and the earlier the better.

Nchara:

It takes more than leading Lagos to be a nationally-acceptable president. Moreover Fasola sealed his fate by deporting fellow Nigerians from Nigeria. If you are one of the deportees, would you vote for him?

I am only calling for people to consider what ROTATIONAL system really means in Nigerian terms, not trying to vote for or against anyone. Just used him as an example of what we are potentially requesting be made permanent in that country.

Kobojunkie:

Why change the entire constitution? What part of the current constitution really needs to be changed?

I want to vote for Rotational system as a good way of making sure that each region gets a chance, but the evidence is OVERWHELMING that it will lead to more failure and little change from the status quo. When I consider what we have seen in the past 10 years of our democracy, I am not willing to place my bet on the same for the next 6 or so more years.
Why? Because it is clear at this point that as long as power remains in the hands of the few, it will continue to be manipulated as it has ,

a) Leadership will be based more and more on what region a potential leader is from and not on brilliance or qualification. We have an example in Yar adua. There was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING qualifying that man for the position to start with but in the name of rotational presidency, he was selected as the candidate with the least criminal past for the job


b) The power or chances of the people to regain power will continue to diminish with time


c) Criminals in government will continue to get away with crimes committed against the people


Think about it for a minute. Folks are out there calling for people like Fashola to get a go at the seat but guess what, he is likely never to get a go if we continue this rotational system.
Hmmm . . . .

The fact (just as Nchara above has opined) is that to rule Nigeria,you need not be a highly intelligent person sad but true.

The entire 1999 constitution as is presently written in my own opinion is illegal,why?

1.Its never been subjected to a referendum by  the people of Nigeria& was essentially passed on by the military .

2. Do you know there is provision in this flawed document for a group called 'Council of State' comprising all past 'presidents' of Nigeria including coup plotters like IBB,Buhari?

3.In addition things like the Police,creation of Local governments,revenue allocation & generally true federal principles are absent or severely watered down,so it needs serious 're-writing'.
If we have true federalism,& trully independent institutions ,including the police,press. .  . .most of your fears would be addressed.

illusion2:

The fact (just as Nchara above has opined) is that to rule Nigeria,you need not be a highly intelligent person sad but true.

As I explained, I used the Fashola example to explain how Rotational Government as it is in Nigeria DOES NOT promote the election of HIGHLY INTELLIGENT PERSONS but instead promotes the election of people first by region; qualifications comes in afterwards. We all saw Yar adua, a man who governed a state for 8 solid years, accomplishing next to nothing, getting elected to run a whole country mainly because he was from the right region for the job.

illusion2:

The entire 1999 constitution as is presently written in my own opinion is illegal,why?

1.Its never been subjected to a referendum by the people of Nigeria& was essentially passed on by the military .

2. Do you know there is provision in this flawed document for a group called 'Council of State' comprising all past 'presidents' of Nigeria including coup plotters like IBB,Buhari?

3.In addition things like the Police,creation of Local governments,revenue allocation & generally true federal principles are absent or severely watered down,so it needs serious 're-writing'.

If we have true federalism,& trully independent institutions ,including the police,press. . . .most of your fears would be addressed.

OK. I thought you meant to change the constitution in regards to this particular issue.

Kobojunkie:

As I explained, I used the Fashola example to explain how Rotational Government as it is in Nigeria DOES NOT promote the election of HIGHLY INTELLIGENT PERSONS but instead promotes the election of people first by region; qualifications comes in afterwards.

And this is precisely the point I'm trying to pass across. TO 'LEAD ' NIGERIA UNFORTUNATELY ,YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE INTELLIGENT.As a matter of fact,being intelligent/educated may be a limiting factor,because of the high illiterate population.

I recall when Awo tried to make education compulsory,he faced severe opposition because people felt their children wouldn't be available for farming,if they were forced to go to school.

In a nutshell,being streetwise is what is required to lead nigeria,not necessarily MBAs & PhD(these are useful for appointees).

So rotational presidency is good for stability & should be put into a reviewed constitution.

Kobojunkie:

As I explained, I used the Fashola example to explain how Rotational Government as it is in Nigeria DOES NOT promote the election of HIGHLY INTELLIGENT PERSONS but instead promotes the election of people first by region; qualifications comes in afterwards. We all saw Yar adua, a man who governed a state for 8 solid years, accomplishing next to nothing, getting elected to run a whole country mainly because he was from the right region for the job.

OK. I thought you meant to change the constitution in regards to this particular issue.

Poor example, Fashola works for Lagos. but will never make it on the national scene WITHOUT rotational presidency. As a governor, he is good; as a Nigerian, he is wretched - why deport fellow citizens?

You have always vigorously held that there is nothing wrong with the Nigerian structure, nothing needs to be changed in the constituition and advised that we employ unspecified "tried and tested methods". Well, here we are today in a country on its kness because the president is ill (there is a huge swathe of society praying for him to get well, only to avoid cataclysm); nothing wrong with the structure?

Beaf:

Poor example, Fashola works for Lagos. but will never make it on the national scene WITHOUT rotational presidency. As a governor, he is good; as a Nigerian, he is wretched - why deport fellow citizens?

You have always vigorously held that there is nothing wrong with the Nigerian structure, nothing needs to be changed in the constituition and advised that we employ unspecified "tried and tested methods". Well, here we are today in a country on its kness because the president is ill (there is a huge swathe of society praying for him to get well, only to avoid cataclysm); nothing wrong with the structure?

Nchara:

It takes more than leading Lagos to be a nationally-acceptable president. Moreover Fasola sealed his fate by deporting fellow Nigerians from Nigeria. If you are one of the deportees, would you vote for him?

he deported fellow nigerians and the rest of the country still wishes they had a govenor like him in their state.

If he can deport nigerians(if they were nigerians)out of Lagos sate, dont you think he will deport Niger migrants back to Niger?
thats why he made provisions in Lagos state

Beaf:

Poor example, Fashola works for Lagos. but will never make it on the national scene WITHOUT rotational presidency. As a governor, he is good; as a Nigerian, he is wretched - why deport fellow citizens?

He's not 'wretched' as a Nigerian. . . poor choice of words . Rather what I suspect you're implying is that his decision/actions as governor may work against a potential aspiration for national political office .

illusion2:

The entire 1999 constitution as is presently written in my own opinion is illegal,why?

1.Its never been subjected to a referendum by the people of Nigeria& was essentially passed on by the military .

3.In addition things like the Police,creation of Local governments,revenue allocation & generally true federal principles are absent or severely watered down,so it needs serious 're-writing'.
If we have true federalism,& trully independent institutions ,including the police,press. . . .most of your fears would be addressed.

GBAM!!!

Fasola is completely wrong to deport fellow Nigerians and I will wager that those he deported, their family members and indeed any constitutionally-minded Nigerian will not support anyone who vagrantly violates their right to lead them. He is over and done with in Lagos. He will never be a president in the present day Nigeria, and as somebody mentoned, except via Rotational president when it is SW's turn. Sorry for digressing, this is not about Fasola.

illusion2:

He's not 'wretched' as a Nigerian. . . poor choice of words . Rather what I suspect you're implying is that his decision/actions as governor may work against a potential national aspiration for political office .

Yes, that is what I meant; looking at it again, it was the wrong choice of words.

Beaf:

Poor example, Fashola works for Lagos. but will never make it on the national scene WITHOUT rotational presidency. As a governor, he is good; as a Nigerian, he is wretched - why deport fellow citizens?

I COMPLETELY disagree! Compared to those we have out there, that man is a saint. Even with the deportation thing, and if you add to that displacement of the poor in various parts of his own state, he is still a SAINT. I am of the mind that if given the chance in 2011, considering he will running against the likes of Yar adua and maybe his vice, Jonathan, people will vote for him( assuming that folks are really ready for an end to the status quo). So, he does not need ROTATIONAL system to get a turn.

The problem, however, remains that it seems we are more willing to continue with ROTATIONAL SYSTEM ( which creates a false picture of stability for all), rather than push to COMPLETELY OVERHAUL what we know does not work at all.

Beaf:

You have always vigorously held that there is nothing wrong with the Nigerian structure, nothing needs to be changed in the constituition and advised that we employ unspecified "tried and tested methods". Well, here we are today in a country on its kness because the president is ill (there is a huge swathe of society praying for him to get well, only to avoid cataclysm); nothing wrong with the structure?

STRUCTURALLY, I see NOTHING wrong with Nigeria. I have never stated that NOTHING needs to be changed in the constitution, only that before we run off changing the constitution, we ought to at least get some things right FIRST. As long as our democracy remains one where power continues in the hands of the minority, we will NEVER get it right. Been my stance from the get go and remains my stance no matter what.

The country is on its knees and you blame the structure? Why? Yar adua is ill and the structure of the country is to blame for his illness? Or the fact that our reps have not been bold enough to ensure for his removal to this minute? I don’t understand the link you make there.

Back to Jonathan, why should somebody ask him to resign?

naijaking1:

Back to Jonathan, why should somebody ask him to resign?

Looks more like rumour. Yaradua is not dead yet

Ibime:

GBAM!!!

@ ibime,you no agree with point No 2 about 'Council of State'?

naijaking1:

Back to Jonathan, why should somebody ask him to resign?

The problem with this 'Jonathan must resign' thingy is dat there's an inherent assumption that PDP will always win the presidential elections. . . this is indeed flawed,like the entire poilitical process if you ask me. . . .

Tho' its far better than a military regime sha !  

Kobojunkie:

I COMPLETELY disagree! Compared to those we have out there, that man is a saint. Even with the deportation thing, and if you add to that displacement of the poor in various parts of his own state, he is still a SAINT.

That is subjective, so maybe we get back to topic?

You have always vigorously held that there is nothing wrong with the Nigerian structure, nothing needs to be changed in the constituition and advised that we employ unspecified "tried and tested methods". Well, here we are today in a country on its kness because the president is ill (there is a huge swathe of society praying for him to get well, only to avoid cataclysm); nothing wrong with the structure?

What do you think of the above? Should we be thinking of copntituitional changes?

In a free and fair election Fashola would win votes from the southwest and North, Edo. Thats all thats need to win in Naija.
The north doesnt even care about its own citizens. Fashola fits the demographic to win in Nigeria a muslim and a southerner- Like Abiola  
rotation is only needed for those in the SS and SE

The only way for the whole rotational thing to work IS for the PDP to rig and win every election. Its impossible to put this rotational thing in the constitution. Thats why its a PDP thing.

Beaf:

That is subjective, so maybe we get back to topic?

I agree that it is, in some ways, subjective. But come on!!!  Do we compare him to Yar adua? Or Jonathan? Or even anyone else on the national scene( in leadership) right now?

I am completely against a rotational system as I care more that we get really intelligent beings up there working for us. And when I say intelligent, I am not even anyway speaking of education or the sort, but more on installing of competent minds who understand that this is not about them but about their ability to SERVE the people first and Last.
We are where we are right now because of rotational thinking. Why should we push for more of the same and expect something different this time around?

KnowAll:

With the throes our nation is going through, the dileman of our sick President should be- re- addressed and re-examinined in the context of performance appraisal and practicality. It would appear from sources that the the President has lost the dignity and necessity accompined with ferrying oneself from point A to Point B, having read a report in which it was indicative that the President could not even walk to the Plane carrying
him out of the country in the dead of the Night. This is rather unfortunate and embarassing,  not that it is embarassing he cannot walk, but the fact that the President and his entourage had to result into berging into a foreign country as refugees without visas speaks volume.

Have they thought for a moment that the Saudis might not want to issue a visa to this scronger to power Yardua is fast becoming, his antics and stubboness might have infuriated the Saudi doctors just as did the Germans.

The thought that a President requires a Visa sent a shiver down my spine, how come diplomats dont need one, and the President who sanctions diplomatic Passport requires one. Something is amiss here, that story does not hold water, Yardua's pressboys think we are kindergatens, we might behave and pretend to be stupid in Nigeria but we are not daft.

The German doctors have already told him in a clear voice without mincing words, that he requires a comprehensive medical care, that will mean his inceration in an hospital for months on end, but our power drunk first lady will not want Yardua to take this option for reasons best known to her.

Now we are hearing whether it is rumours or fact, that some dark powerful forces in the North are urging the VP to resign his post so that a Northerner can be selected as President. This ploy is not on, If our constitution does not beleive a VP can become the President in case of any eventualities then the clause and post of the VP should be expunged from the constitution and the post of the VP banned.

What I dont get about these so called power brokers is how come it is ok for deputy Governors to become Governors in case of any eventualities and when it comes to the Presidency and the VP the rules has to change. There are 2 solutions to the present impasse, it is either the VP resigns and the office of the VP banned for ever not to be used again since having an ambition of taking over from your boss is not part of the Job description, we might as well do without that post,  the nation will be saving a lot of money if one were to consider the amount spent in retaining the VP in his office.

If on the other hand we still want the post of the VP to be relevant in our polity, then future Presidential Candidates should know that their VP's are President-in-waiting except if something extra-ordinary happens. If one were to take continuity as a factor, it makes sense for a President to have his 2 terms and if all is well his VP should also be made to run for the next 8 years if he wins the election.  That will create an agenda and development plan that will spans 16 years, of course assuming they one all 4 elections.


If the post of the VP is still relevant today as I write I will suggest the following:

1. The NASS should convene a meeting in which the physical condition of the president should be the bone of contention, if for any reason Mr President cannot manouver himself round his office let alone the Nation, then it is not demeaning, it is factual he should be persuaded to resign or voted out of office.

2. If the Executives in the FEC realise the chairman of their meeting is not able to address main issues affecting the nation, they too should fulfill their constitional duties.

3. If the Politicians dilly-dally on these for too long without making a firm decsion b4 it is too late the Miliatary boys will take advantage of the these avoidable impasse.

4. Our last VP should be President  but for his strong views and personalty and his no-nonesense stance with OBJ.

5. This VP has being loyal to his boss and should be compensated accordingly. The VP should start making his own in-roads in this administration, especially with regards to the personalties in the army, navy and airforce. I will not want to go into details about these, I am sure he understands my drift. I will expect him to.  

Seconded.
One aspect of the current state of affairs is the alleged threats to Goodluck Jonathans life, should he fail to do their bidding and resign.
Personally, I believe the military cannot sieze power again without throwing the nation into bloodshed or possible war.

The militancy in the ND and the ability of the militants to hold the FGN to a battle has changed the equation for good. Either the North abide by rotational presidency or they face the liquidation of Nigeria.

Sjeeezy8,

Fasola will not win in the North without rotational presidency

Jonathan needs to step up to the plate,this is a democracy,not a military govt. The SS govs should also back him up & insist he will not resign.

He should push for proper electoral & constitutional reform & bow out in 2011.

illusion2:

Jonathan needs to step up to the plate,this is a democracy,not a military govt. The SS govs should also back him up & insist he will not resign.

He should push for proper electoral & constitutional reform & bow out in 2011.

needs to? The man has, hand in hand with Yar adua, held 140 million hostages for over 2 years and you still aren't satisfied? Granted, he is the Vice President and the next to replace Yar adua but come on!!

The VP becoming the P in the event that the current P dies shouldn't even be a question or a matter for discussion. Those so-called Hausa/Fulani king makers must be told that another June 12 cannot be tolerated in any shape or form.

Can we stop this Fashola propaganda, in terms of concrete achievement he can't tie Donald Duke's shoe laces.

Back to topic - Jonathan will not resign, he has some serious muscle behind him, not noisemakers but people that can make this country ungovernable.

Kobojunkie:

needs to? The man has, hand in hand with Yar adua, held 140 million hostages for over 2 years and you still aren't satisfied?

Sorry, but that is crap. He has been sheilded away from any power by Yar Adua and his goons. We do not know the real Goodluck Jonathan.

Kobojunkie:

needs to? The man has, hand in hand with Yar adua, held 140 million hostages for over 2 years and you still aren't satisfied?

Not really,the VP in most democracies(even in the US) is a glorified houseboy. Even the chief of staff holds more 'power'.
He did not appoint the service chiefs,ministers,parastatal heads etc. And because ,our 'democracy' is still shaky,people won't automatically defer to him as they should in the absence of the president. . . I daresay ,ministers may even give Turai official briefings instead. And thats why Jonathan needs to work at the necessary reforms asap !

SapeleGuy:

Can we stop this Fashola propaganda, in terms of concrete achievement he can't tie Donald Duke's shoe laces.

Back to topic - Jonathan will not resign, he has some serious muscle behind him, not noisemakers but people that can make this country ungovernable.

In terms of  Nigeria donald duke cant tie anyones shoes who will vote for him outside the SE and SS?  uhhh No one

back to topic badluck wont resign because those that control Nigeria arent notherners or southerners and what ever is needed to keep Nigeria as one will happen, even if it means having the vp as president.

SapeleGuy:

Can we stop this Fashola propaganda, in terms of concrete achievement he can't tie Donald Duke's shoe laces.

Donald Duke in 8 years vs Fashola in 2.5 years ? haba !

C/river with 2 million(mainly 2 tribes) vs Lagos with 17 million(with almost all tribes in at least their thousands?) .

Lets always leave sentiments & face facts. The thread is about Jonathan resigning,you can start another one titled Duke vs Fashola

kobojunkie,
Jonathan tolerates Yar adua and vice versa - This is evidenced by the latters refusal to hand power to Jonathan  in  the past even whilst on his sickbed.

Illusion2 - Jonathan can't be seen to initiate anything, that is down to the legislators, all he has to be is ready and an 'eligible bride' in the words of the late Azikiwe. This what Atiku did not understand.