jalether:

@ dayo, Follow the link below, BTW how do you guys embed videos


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1KRYc5hnJE

[flash=400,328]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1KRYc5hnJE[/flash]

Is this not a bleeping disgrace?

You have to summarise Joe Coles 28years into 6minutes of video?

Bring one game he totally dominated and show us.

I brought Schweinsteiger vs Portugal at the World cup and Schweisteiger vs Portugal at the Euros

As a rejoinder to Nateevs and Jalethers earlier discussion, I would like to contribute the following points:

(a.) Blaming players for the formation not working is counterproductive. The 4-3-3 formation covers players individual deficiencies allowing the team to shine. These players have ALWAYS been successful with 4-3-3. The players are not bad, the management is!!!


I shall expatiate:


JM: 2004/2005: 4-3-3 formation: Successful!

JM: 2005/2006:  4-3-3 formation: Successful!

JM: 2006/2007: Diamond formation: Failure! Lot of people forget JM played diamond formation in 07 to accomodate Shevchenko

Avram Grant: 2007/2008: 4-3-3 formation: Successful!

Phil Scolari: 2008: Diamond formation: Failure!

Guus Hiddink: 2009: 4-3-3 formation: Successful!

Carlotti: 2009/2010: Diamond formation: Trending toward failure (certainly on no of games won)



Based on average points per game, Avram Grant and Guus Hiddink would have won the league if given the full season. Therefore I posit that we have NEVER lost the league playing our favourite 4-3-3, and we have ALWAYS lost the league playing with a diamond midfield.



We used to say the same thing about the players having lost it last season. As soon as Guus Hiddink came, all those complaints were swept away.

The fundamental weaknesses of the diamond formation remain: Not enough space for strikers because the box is overcrowded. Also defence is too exposed to the counterattack.

The diamond formation does have its merits. It allows you to dominate possession and play pretty football. However I think you need excessive pace at the back to play the diamond and unfortunately, it leaves players like Mikel, Ballack and Terry severely exposed on the counterattack.

If I were Carlotti, I would be really careful. There may be a reason why GH turned down the Citeh job. I do not believe a Director of Football position is preferrable to a management position for GH.

Well. . . . twice the ligue shield has been put into Chelsea's hands and twice they've failed to take a firm grip on it - maybe, just maybe its just not going to happen for the diamond!

Schweinsteiger is a better player than Joe Cole for two main reasons, EFFICIENCY & CONSISTENCY.
Schweinsteiger's a much more efficient player. . . he doesnt do silly tricks but he gets the job done, Joe Cole does step overs facing his own goal. . . it's embarrassing
Schweinsteiger can play 10 games and perform well in 9 of them. . . Joe Cole is like Diaby, 1 excellent game followed by 9 woeful ones.

Schweinsteiger is a better player than Joe Cole for two main reasons, EFFICIENCY & CONSISTENCY.
Schweinsteiger's a much more efficient player. . . he doesnt do silly tricks but he gets the job done, Joe Cole does step overs facing his own goal. . . it's embarrassing
Schweinsteiger can play 10 games and perform well in 9 of them. . . Joe Cole is like Diaby, 1 excellent game followed by 9 woeful ones.

Thank You oh. Tell jalether

only a fool will compare Joko with Sch.

ritchboy:

Schweinsteiger is a better player than Joe Cole for two main reasons, EFFICIENCY & CONSISTENCY.
Schweinsteiger's a much more efficient player. . . he doesnt do silly tricks but he gets the job done, Joe Cole does step overs facing his own goal. . . it's embarrassing
Schweinsteiger can play 10 games and perform well in 9 of them. . . Joe Cole is like Diaby, 1 excellent game followed by 9 woeful ones.

you are a fool. . .

I bet Schweinsteiger will wumble more if played in the Diamond formation.

dyabman:

you are a fool. . .

I bet Schweinsteiger will wumble more if played in the Diamond formation.

Schweinsteiger DOES play in the diamond formation.


IMO, comparing Scwheinsteiger and JC is like comparing apples and oranges. They play different positions and have a different physique.

@Ibime.

This I think is very much open to interpretation. Permit me to see it in this light.

Ignoring the underlying technical problems (personnel) I believe is the counter-productive thing.

I understand that we've always played the 4-3-3. .Well, you then could criticize JM for always playing the 4-3-3 in-spite of the opposition. . Something we doing to Carllotti now.

The most convenient thing to do is to play 4-3-3. . it's safe, tried and trusted. . but every manager can't be the same. . everyone has their own ideology of football. . .

One thing we can't do however is to say these players have always performed, therefore they will perform now. . . A handful of them are over 30. . . There has to be a time where all just grinds to a halt. .

Our transfer policy over the years I have always said is a joke. I am never a fan of concealing the inadequacies of the squad. . I am an advocate of buying right or trying to buy right first time. .

Take ManU for instance. . The crop of players Fergie has got will play a 4-3-3 when desired. . a 4-4-2 if they want to. . and guess what they will play the diamond without having to do a lot of "getting used to". . They will find a player in the squad for every position in every formation.

So we ask our players to switch to the diamond and things fall apart? . .Meaning we have a squad of 25 maybe 27 players and they all can only play one way? That is a fundamental problem. . . and destruction is imminent with such mentality.

Even Wenger sis a little tweaking with his squad and switched to a 4-3-3 in one season without having to buy an extra player. . that is buying right from the start. .

That means we can only employ managers who can provide a YES to a basic question during their recruitment process. . "Do you play 4-3-3 - Yes or No" ?



All that to me is rubbish. . We will never be able to play Barca, ManU or Arsenal without defending for 80mins and hoping we get a break to score one. . our midfielders just can't carry the ball, can't dribble, can't run, can't pass and can't cross. . We can't take the game to them . .

I don't subscribe to such footballing policy. We have to let Carllotti buy the right type of players for the diamond who will also naturally be able to play a 4-3-3 if they have to.

WE have to buy in the January transfer . . and we have to buy well well sef.

ritchboy:

Schweinsteiger is a better player than Joe Cole for two main reasons, EFFICIENCY & CONSISTENCY.
Schweinsteiger's a much more efficient player. . . he doesnt do silly tricks but he gets the job done, Joe Cole does step overs facing his own goal. . . it's embarrassing  
Schweinsteiger can play 10 games and perform well in 9 of them. . . Joe Cole is like Diaby, 1 excellent game followed by 9 woeful ones.

O boy! hope say u dey think before you talk!

Schweinsteiger consistent?? Where was this consistency for the past 2 years with bayern playing crap all over! No player is 100% efficient and Consistent so dont go there!! If he was that efficient why isnt he World footballer or European footballer of the year by now? How many times has he been nominated sef? remind me abeg!  

If you cant prove the bolded part of your post then your word of mouth dont mean shit!
Joe cole 2005/06 leaves Schwe at 25 now starring at football like he's starring at a ladies bobbie!

Forever Chelsea.

Dyabman
u have been posting on this forum for ages and u havent made one single post a brain dead frog on life support would be proud of. . . Tell me, does ur brain use a condom when it interacts with the rest of ur anatomy?

Joe Cole is sh.t . . . There i said it. If u dont like it, u can shave ur pubic hair with a needle

now chelsea fans want 4-3-3. . . And who would play wide? Joe Cole? Malouda? Kalou? Anelka? Terry?
4-3-3 worked for chelsea b4 cos they had better wingers then(Duff, Robben, SWP) and Joe Cole was twice the player he is today. Face it, ur current wingers are wack!
4-3-3 means Joe Cole & Malouda/Kalou STARTING games as wingers and Anelka/Drogba dropping to the bench. . . That spells DOOM with 54 O's

Really embarrassing una capitani na runs guy

Schweinsteiger consistent?? Where was this consistency for the past 2 years with bayern playing crap all over! No player is 100% efficient and Consistent so dont go there!! If he was that efficient why isnt he World footballer or European footballer of the year by now? How many times has he been nominated sef? remind me abeg!

If you cant prove the bolded part of your post then your word of mouth dont mean poo!
Joe cole 2005/06 leaves Schwe at 25 now starring at football like he's starring at a ladies bobbie!

You can also ask where was Fabregas consistence when GAYYners were going 5 seasons without a trophy

Tell us a single top game where Joe Cole dominated the way Bastian schweinsteiger dominated Portugal at both the Euro cup and the World cup.

IMO, comparing Scwheinsteiger and JC is like comparing apples and oranges. They play different positions and have a different physique.

Messi and Fabregas might play in difference position but its still insane to try and compare their ability.

Schweinsteiger had 3 years ago what Joe Cole cant have in a life time. Tell us about a TOP GAME Joke Cole dominated someone was showing us meaningless turnings against QUEENS PARK RANGERS another eve went to the extent of gathering all of JOKE COLE on 6 youtube minutes. PATHETIC

Better sell Jo[i]K[/i]e Cole and get Schweinstegers left boot.

@Ibime, I agree that sometimes you need to switch formation according to the opposition but I totally disagree that the diamond formation is the problem.

Remember we were  bangin.g in goals like no man business just 2 months ago? We even kicked them L'arses right where it pains most? Tell me what formation were we playing then? was it not the same diamond?

From your earlier post, you stated this . . ."The diamond formation does have its merits. It allows you to dominate possession and play pretty football".

This precisely is the problem. . .we dominated nada! Take the matches against Wigan and Westham as examples?

Against Villa - We did dominate but fell to set pieces. In fact most of the goals conceded this season were from set pieces. How sad!

You know, some prefer zonal marking to man-to-man marking but the point is, nothing can stop that ball going in if it will go in. Someone will definitely make a mistake and it is mistakes that lead to goals. That's what this game is all about.

Formation I don't think is the problem. The players to execute it maybe but then again, what formation do you have to play to make Kalou score regularly or at least hit the target? I'm not the type to talk down on our players but we all know that this boy can miss 10 chances out of 9!!! 

Joe Cole? His sharpness ain't just back yet. A couple of more games and you will see the difference.

DS came on and did well. . .looks sharper and more relaxed which is good.
Borini? After that "miss-of-the-day" against Portsmouth needs to cool down. If he does that again, I'm afraid his next chance won't come soon.

One question though, why are we not playing The Prince? What happens if the ban comes into play? Meaning that he won't be playing for another 2 months for Chelsea?

@ Chelseans
Supposing the transfer ban comes into effect, can we realistically last for 2 seasons with our current squad? Do we hope to win anything during that period?

Me thinks We need to buy 3 players. 2 - MFs and maybe 1 roaming forward like Nic. We play much faster that way. The down side though is that Nic sometimes stays too freaking long on the ball.

The problem here is who do we buy? What are the chances of making QUALITY signings during the winter window?

@ritchboy

You are just the Universal set of fools on this forum comparing joe cole to sweinrubbish

@FBS

about the transfer ban issue, all we need is two good striker maybe Aguero or Lavezzi , a perfect Midefielder like Hamsik. Get back Stoch , we should go for emmanuelson , or Afellay.

ritchboy:

now chelsea fans want 4-3-3. . . And who would play wide? Joe Cole? Malouda? Kalou? Anelka? Terry?
4-3-3 worked for chelsea b4 cos they had better wingers then(Duff, Robben, SWP) and Joe Cole was twice the player he is today. Face it, your current wingers are wack!
4-3-3 means Joe Cole & Malouda/Kalou STARTING games as wingers and Anelka/Drogba dropping to the bench. . . That spells DOOM with 54 O's

Were you typing this rubbish when Guus Hiddink was blowing everyone apart with common Malouda and Anelka on the wings?


@ Nateevs & FBS,

A manager is supposed to get the best out of whatever squad he has at its disposal. You say our players cant dribble, cant do this or cant do that. Well either buy players that can, or devise a system that best suits them. A manager must be pragmatic first, everything else is secondary.

What was Scolaris excuse? That our players couldnt dribble like Robinho? Well I tell you what, Id rather have our current set of players than Robinho.

Also Nateevs talking about lightweights like Giovinco. FFS, the nucca isnt built for the prem. Why should we take a Juventus reject? He's a tactical liability.

Almost every playmaker Nateevs has recommended for Chelsea over the years has flopped. This shows that the problem is not with the playmaker themselves but the idea that the playmaker is still relevant in modern football. The much-hyped Diego is a flop at Juventus, likewise VDV and every other playmaker Nateevs has recommended for Chelsea. We need to come off this playmaker/diamond formation idea and worry about getting skillful but versatile players.

Now, the good thing about the 4-3-3 is that it is a fluid system. It is 4 or 5 formations in one. It can adapt to any circumstance. It can be a 4-5-1 ala Greece in Euro 2004 in hard matches, or it can be a 4-3-3 ala Barcelona when you are playing little teams. If your wingers can tuck in, you can make extra midfielders, with your wing-backs providing the width. Or your wingers can play upfront making a 3 man strike-force. It can also be a 4-2-3-1 ala Liverpool, and you can play with a holding midfielder so deep, he becomes an auxilliary centre-back when your fullbacks are caught out of position. It all depends on the kind of opposition you face.

Not many teams have a 2-in-1 striker like Drogba, hence not many teams can play a 4-3-3. We do, so that should give us the tactical advantage of having more bodies in midfield.

@Ibime, but we were scoring lots of goals (and kept clean sheets) even with the diamond formation, yes?
How do you explain that?

FBS:

@Ibime, but we were scoring lots of goals (and kept clean sheets) even with the diamond formation, yes?
How do you explain that?

When winter comes, the diamond formation becomes extinct. You cannot be passing the ball back and forth in this cold weather, with the hard pitches we have in winter.

Perhaps thats why Arsenal form drops almost every winter? 

I still believe in the diamond

FBS:

@Ibime, but we were scoring lots of goals (and kept clean sheets) even with the diamond formation, yes?
How do you explain that?

Your stance on buying 3 or more players as the solution to the teams crisis on the pitch, is highly contradictory, you clearly acknowledge the teams

excellent performance from both ends of the pitch, just over a month ago with the SAME CROP OF PLAYERS, if i could recollect vividly, Aguero, Gourcuff et al

were not in the Chelsea line up when we were decimating teams or were they?

jalether:

Your stance on buying 3 or more players as the solution to the teams crisis on the pitch, is highly contradictory, you clearly acknowledge the teams

excellent performance from both ends of the pitch, just over a month ago with the SAME CROP OF PLAYERS, if i could remember vividly, Aguero, Gourcuff et al

were not in the Chelsea line up when we were decimating teams or were they?

Don't you know how to read in between the lines? Do you realistically think we can last 2 seasons with our current squad? The basis of my analysis was that formation is not our problem but how you execute it.
For the record: I said 3 and not 3 or more. Besides, I have not even suggested any player for us to buy.

FBS:

Don't you know how to read in between the lines? Do you realistically think we can last 2 seasons with our current squad?
For the record: I said 3 and not 3 or more. Besides, I have not even suggested any player for us to buy.

Aite my bad,  of course I'm talking about short term here therefore THIS season, my stance still remains the teams quality and depth is sufficient

to deliver trophy(s) at the end of the season, however I can understand the need to deploy a long term strategy, but what I oppose is some people's

(not implying anyone specifically,just speaking generally) believe that the teams problem is down to lack of adequate and/or right players to play the diamond system.

If the formation is not the problem FBS, then you must be betting your bottom dollar that we would not have more points playing 4-3-3 at this stage of the season with GH?

Speak to me at the end of January.

I believe we will drop more points in this cold weather if we persist with this diamond.

Ibime
"rubbish" is too soft a word to describe what u typed. If u reckon a 4-3-3 with 'common' Malouda and Anelka wide is better than a diamond(which has worked very well so far), u belong in a form-fitting cage in a Malawian zoo.

Dyabman
are u receiving any royalties to be an idiot? Joe Cole is the living equivalent of sh.t, u can take that to ur grand mother's funeral

Ibime:

If the formation is not the problem FBS, then you must be betting your bottom dollar that we would not have more points playing 4-3-3 at this stage of the season with GH?

Speak to me at the end of January.

I believe we will drop more points in this cold weather if we persist with this diamond.

There is no research to back up your claim that cold weather directly influences the way a team plays, come on now, Barca and Arsenal play

beautiful football all year round, so how did you come up with this outrageous claim

Una dey mind Ibime? MEND spokesman dey yarn puff-puff!

Are you blaming the weather or the formation? Take a stand.

@Jalether. . .Correct me if I'm wrong but you also said we need to change our defense, no?

Am telling you'se lot. . . . weather and blustery wind affects a passing side. . . its not scientific. . . its common sense. . . .

ritchboy:

Ibime
"rubbish" is too soft a word to describe what u typed. If u reckon a 4-3-3 with 'common' Malouda and Anelka wide is better than a diamond(which has worked very well so far), u belong in a form-fitting cage in a Malawian zoo.

It is not surprising that someone of your ilk should entrench his stupidity in the face of facts. With Malouda and Anelka on the wings last season, we won 11 games and drew 1 under Guus Hiddink. The only game we lost under GH was away at Spurs, where we played. . . . you guessed it. . . . the diamond formation!!!

Can you compare 11 wins, 1 draw with what obtains presently?

Your medula oblangata must suffering the dehydrating effects of reverse osmosis.

FBS:

Una dey mind Ibime?   MEND spokesman dey yarn puff-puff!  

Are you blaming the weather or the formation? Take a stand.

@Jalether. . .Correct me if I'm wrong but you also said we need to change our defense, no?

YES, however that proposition was a knee jerk reaction, Cech in all fairness is not the same keeper he was pre-injury, we all know that

nevertheless, he is still one of the best EPL goal keepers, after all every player make mistakes once in a while ala Casillas vs AC milan

the problem arises with the increase in consistency and frequency of errors, how many times during the season has Cech made a

silly mistake to concede goals, at least 6 times already, my knee jerk reaction is therefore justifiable.

Ibime
you are 89 years old and the chances of your IQ ever transcending -12 are as thin as an orphan on a diet in Darfur.
Chelsea winning 101 games out of 100 using the 4-3-3 under a different manager is as irrelevant as ur presence on earth.
No matter what formation a team plays, they will have bad spells. That is as certain as the sun rising from the east. Its normal for fans to find something to blame. Well, u can blame Joe Cole, Kalou & Ballack for being useless. . . Blaming the formation, the weather, oil prices etc is as daft as ur next post.