ritchboy:

Ibime
you are 89 years old and the chances of your IQ ever transcending -12 are as thin as an orphan on a diet in Darfur.
Chelsea winning 101 games out of 100 using the 4-3-3 under a different manager is as irrelevant as your presence on earth.
No matter what formation a team plays, they will have bad spells. That is as certain as the sun rising from the east. Its normal for fans to find something to blame. Well, u can blame Joe Cole, Kalou & Ballack for being useless. . . Blaming the formation, the weather, oil prices etc is as daft as your next post.

Your cranial capacity is similar to that of an aardvark.

In response to my statement that 4-3-3 would stand this set of players in better stead, you submitted that a 4-3-3 with Anelka and Malouda on the wings is useless.

Holding all constraints equal, I have shown that this same set of players achieved feats incommensurate with their level of ability when played in a 4-3-3 formation just a few months ago. Your only riposte is to allude to an unquantifiable dogma about players having bad spells. I dare say that if Carlotti was supplanted by Hiddink today, and the formation reversed to 4-3-3, that bad spell would disappear as quickly as a waft of smoke overcome by wind turbulence.

I have provided empirical evidence of Chelsea's 100% record with the 4-3-3 formation from 2004 till date, and also proved the 100% failure rate of the diamond formation, and all you can do is wheel out unscientific rhetoric.

If your wealth is commensurate with your level of intelligence, then I dare say that the name Ritchboy must be a misnomer.

@Jalether, did I hear you say knee jerk reaction? I wonder what you would have done if you were a manager? Sell your players once they make mistake?    

True Cech has made very costly errors just as he done brilliantly well this season. _{I understand that's what he is paid to do}. That said, there are no better keepers out there of late and to this you have confirmed.

Knee jerk reactions are never justifiable 'cos you stand the risk of coming off as someone you does not believe in his team.

Ibime:

Am telling you'se lot. . . . weather and blustery wind affects a passing side. . . its not scientific. . . its common sense. . . .

It doesn't affect Arsenal at the Emirates. . . . . .
They have an underground heating system under their pitch. . . . . .The pitch at the Emirates won't get frozen.

@Ibime

You still do not get my argument. It is not an argument of which formation is better but that we have a problem. How are other teams able to switch between formations and we can't?

I won't back down on my claim that we don't need to move away from the diamond to be successful. We just have to do the right thing to make it work. . . even if it means we don't win anything this year. We continue to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to at best average midfielders who happen to be one dimensional as well. . .

I agree Drogba was smoking hot in a 4-3-3 . . He is even hotter in a diamond scoring 17 goals already in mid December How about if we pass well. . ? How about creating more opportunities for him . . ? In four more games he could surpass his all-time goal scoring record in the prem.

I don't say we should always play the diamond. . I am asking us to buy right and that should start from this January.

You have talked about Gourcuff before and you are a staunch supporter of the fella. . Can he not play on the top of the diamond? He can dribble, run with the ball,  pass and shoot from distance and our creativity in front of goal would increase by a massive percentage.

I just want better players. . That's all.

nateevs:

@Ibime

You still do not get my argument. It is not an argument of which formation is better but that we have a problem. How are other teams able to switch between formations and we can't?

I won't back down on my claim that we don't need to move away from the diamond to be successful. We just have to do the right thing to make it work. . . even if it means we don't win anything this year. We continue to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to at best average midfielders who happen to be one dimensional as well. . .

This is a rant at the Gods. . . . who is the subject of your ire?. . . Mourinho for not buying the right players. . . or Carlotti for not doing the best with the players he inherited?

The subject of our conversation is Carlotti. . . . does he maximise player utility or not?

4-3-3 was Chelsea's best formation . . .especially when they had Robben, Duff and co.

Ibime:


This is a rant at the Gods. . . . who is the subject of your ire?. . . Mourinho for not buying the right players. . . or Carlotti for not doing the best with the players he inherited?

The subject of our conversation is Carlotti. . . . does he maximise player utility or not?

Naah! . . until the last four matches. . we were flying. And not with the 4-3-3. . What do you call that? Not getting the best out of our players. . . playing the 4-3-3 is playing safe at best.

We beat Arsenal 3-0, Liverpool 2-0 and ManU 1-0. . I didn't see you coming here to say the best was not being gotten off the players. . suddenly there's a dip in form and all this fickle news abound. .

Jose's last days were filled with a serious dip in form . . drawing and losing matches here and there and playing awfully as well. . and what's funny these players were playing a 4-3-3 then. . So what happened then?


Teams go through a patch - a dip in form somtimes. . Carllotti has made it work so far. . I believe he can make it work further. If we go on a run and perhaps increase the gap you won't be here saying he's not getting the best out of the players.

As far as I am concerned. . . 4 four matches are too few to conclude Carllotti is not getting the best. . when we've been flying in the previous 14 . .

nateevs:

We beat Arsenal 3-0, Liverpool 2-0 and ManU 1-0. . I didn't see you coming here to say the best was not being gotten off the players. . suddenly there's a dip in form and all this fickle news abound. .

That was a dodgy result for Chelsea as all pundits in the UK admitted United were clearly robbed at SB.
Ferguson blew the diamond formation into bits but a spastic referee ensured all the 3 points went to Chelsea.

nateevs:

Jose's last days were filled with a serious dip in form . . drawing and losing matches here and there and playing awfully as well. . and what's funny these players were playing a 4-3-3 then. . So what happened then?

Dont tell me your cerebro-cortex is suffering from an ephemeral aneurism.

What was Jose's formation in his last few games. . . . infact, what was Jose's formation in the whole of 06/07?

STOP PRESS!!!


Lets see what the winter holds for Carlotti's diamond. . .

Anyone who cant see that the problem is structural rather than personell needs to visit specsavers. . . .

Do I need to tell you that no amount of skill can break through 10 men packed on the edge of the box?. . . . if you like, go and buy VDV, Diego or any other playmaker you wish. . . if the other team sit 10 men in their box, you will find it difficult to break through. . . . and do I need to stress that having 3 on 3 counterattacks against us is a structural deficiency?. . . . pray tell, in which formation do these deficiencies surface?

Ibime
i thought i had seen the height of stupidity but u just executed a gravity defying back-flip over it with consummate ease
this chimpanzee faced chipmunk actually thinks he's "proven" chelsea have a "100%" success/failure rate with the 4-3-3 & diamond since 2004. . . my finger-nails are laughing at you.
First of all, since 2004, personnel has changed. Robben, Duff & SWP have left. Chelsea are top of the league with the diamond this season. . . so far so good. You say JM played the diamond in 06/07. . . Chelsea won two trophies that season. How that translates to "100% failure" only a seasoned crap slurper like Ibime can explain.
Then u add more gloss to ur idio-cy by saying GH w/ 4-3-3 would have more points than CA w/ diamond. Are u a psychic or a psycho? My cultured guess is the latter.

This matter is very simple.

One of Ibime, Nateevs and Ritchboy is a consummate pillock.
There's also 80% probability that ALL of them are brainless.

~Sauron~:

This matter is very simple.

One of Ibime, Nateevs and Ritchboy is a consummate pillock.
There's also 80% probability that ALL of them are brainless.

you don craze finish

ritchboy:

Ibime
i thought i had seen the height of stupidity but u just executed a gravity defying back-flip over it with consummate ease
this chimpanzee faced chipmunk actually thinks he's "proven" chelsea have a "100%" success/failure rate with the 4-3-3 & diamond since 2004. . . my finger-nails are laughing at you.
First of all, since 2004, personnel has changed. Robben, Duff & SWP have left. Chelsea are top of the league with the diamond this season. . . so far so good. You say JM played the diamond in 06/07. . . Chelsea won two trophies that season. How that translates to "100% failure" only a seasoned crap slurper like Ibime can explain.
Then u add more gloss to your idio-cy by saying GH w/ 4-3-3 would have more points than CA w/ diamond. Are u a psychic or a psycho? My cultured guess is the latter.

One should not ordinarily try to dignify this gobbledygook with a response.

The limpidity of my argument has been obvious from day dot. We cannot draw comparison on variables such as cup form. Any slowpoke following the thread of this argument knows we are talking about the league here, so trying to categorise 06/07 as a success is outside the constraints of this discussion.

I do not need to explain to this simpleton that the 100% record alludes to a binary verdict on "winning the league" or "not winning the league". The 4-3-3 formation has never lost the league 100% of the time. In contrast, the diamond formation has failed to win the league 100% of the time (taken over JM and Scolari). Anyone who needs further explanation should consult his textbooks. Must I temper my expressions just to clarify my arguments to simpletons?

If we agree that both Avram Grant and GH played enough games to be judged, it is categorically proven that based on their average points per game, they would have won the league. We also deduce that GH would have more points than CA at this point using the same criteria of points per game.

A rational deduction, one would suppose.

Trying to justify rational thought to this fugazi is like trying to seek reason with an elephant in musth.

As I expressed with great perspicuity of language earlier, if Ritchboy's level of wealth is commensurate with his level of intelligence, then his name must be a misnomer.

Ibime:

As I expressed with great perspicuity of language earlier, if Ritchboy's level of wealth is commensurate with his level of intelligence, then his name must be a misnomer.

He is a [b]poor[/b]boy.

See Grammar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Ibime. .

We have played 18 games this season already and I am yet to see us concede defeat or drop points from the "deficiencies" of the diamond.

The games we lost
Villa - Set-piece 2 goals. .
ManCity - set-piece 2 goals.

The games we drew,
Everton - set-piece. 3 goals.
Westham 1 goal penalty.

Where's the deficiency? . . . In fact, one can argue that playing the 4-3-3, we would have lost and drawn the same number of matches if we fail to defend set-pieces well.

Your argument holds no water. . .Even the best teams have not been able to exploit the so called deficiencies of the diamond. .  There's nothing structural about it. . We have even scored more goals than we even did at this stage in the Prem. .

At this stage, I do not see anything wrong with the diamond . . I just don't.

Please tell us what we don't know.

nateevs:

@Ibime. .

We have played 18 games this season already and I am yet to see us concede defeat or drop points from the "deficiencies" of the diamond.

The games we lost
Villa - Set-piece 2 goals. .
ManCity - set-piece 2 goals.

The games we drew,
Everton - set-piece. 3 goals.
Westham 1 goal penalty.

Where's the deficiency? . . . In fact, one can argue that playing the 4-3-3, we would have lost and drawn the same number of matches if we fail to defend set-pieces well.

Aw did we concede the penalty against West-Ham? Was it not from a counterattack that left us overexposed?

Rewind tape to the set-pieces conceded against Portsmouth and Man City. Were they not won from counterattacks?

Prior to this we had been playing well, but rival managers av wised up.

Aw do you square-up the fact that we were camped on the edge of the West-Ham and Portsmouth box for 90 minutes with no pen.etration. We simply had no space to score. Did it not remind you of Scolari?

Dont worry. . . . more to come. . . . Fergie exposed all the deficiencies of the diamond, and other managers know exactly aw to play against it. . . . you will see korokoro with your own eyes, Chelsea camped in the opponents box wiv no space to score, then the opponents picking Chelsea off on the counterattack. . . .especially wiv Essien now injured and Mikel too slow to break off counterattacks. . .

Best insult of the day. . . .

u belong in a form-fitting cage in a Malawian zoo.

Classic!!  

Back to topic - it can't be the fault of the formation. . . .if that formation has gotten you to the top of the league, 4 points ahead of your closest rival then it MUST be working well. The other clubs aren't slouches so something is most definitely going well with that goal.

What is likely lacking is the type of defensive coaching/strength that Chelski has exhibited in previous years.

In my opinion, this is down to the decline of Cech of recent, and Terry's poorer quality organisation. In that regard, Carlo's defensive tactics either have either failed, are inadequate or have not been sufficiently taken on board by the boys.

Ibime:

Aw did we concede the penalty against West-Ham? Was it not from a counterattack that left us overexposed?

Rewind tape to the set-pieces conceded against Portsmouth and Man City. Were they not won from counterattacks?

Prior to this we had been playing well, but rival managers av wised up.

Aw do you square-up the fact that we were camped on the edge of the West-Ham and Portsmouth box for 90 minutes with no pen.etration. We simply had no space to score. Did it not remind you of Scolari?

Dont worry. . . . more to come. . . . Fergie exposed all the deficiencies of the diamond, and other managers know exactly aw to play against it. . . . you will see korokoro with your own eyes, Chelsea camped in the opponents box wiv no space to score, then the opponents picking Chelsea off on the counterattack. . . .

I watched the highlights of the match before I posted. The ball was launched in by the Green from a goal-kick. It wasn't a counter attack.
Also arguing that a counter attack led to conceding free-kicks is like arguing that there can't be counter attacks in a 4-3-3 or free-kicks can't be conceded on the edge of our box in the 4-3-3. . and that, my friend, will be utterly ridiculous.

The problem remains, we were always one step away from the score scored. . . that one step we failed to deal with. That's not a result of using the diamond.


Managers have not learnt to exploit the diamond. . the have learnt to stifle Chelsea. . We can't make the triangle passes. . we can't pass in tight spaces, we can't dribble and we can't run with the ball. They know this and that's what the exploit. . not the formation.

We are not the first team to play teams that park the bus. Every small team parks the bus against ManU. ManU have width but they hardly ever score goals from crosses. . but watch how Rooney, Carrick, Fletcher, Berbatov make those lovely triangles in front of the 18 and score goals. . It's a beauty to watch. . that's because they have the skill in the midfielders to execute such. . . We just can't.

Arsenal always play teams that park the bus and they score truck load of goals. . How do they do it. . It's not because they play 4-3-3. . It's because of a football philosophy that breaks you down no matter what.

Therefore if we have a manager who is trying to bring that philosophy to the club along with strength . . I can't fight it. . More-so it's worked so far. . a few defensive glitches and we seem all over the place.

I trust Carllotti to understand that he needs better players to execute this. He's managed to make it wok this far with player that can hardly adapt. . While you are slagging him off. . I say kudos to him because I think of what he may be able to achieve should he have the right players to do so.

Ibime
it's apparent ur mouth is in it's last gear but ur brain is in reverse. . . end product = nonsense.
Can u actually quote the posts that suggest "we" are talking about the league alone? Ur imminent failure to do so is evidence u are a big fat smelly liar and should be put in a plastic bag labelled "Ibime's Delusion" in Kirikiri
how do u expect me to understand "100%" success/failure means winning the league or not winning the league? again, not every one is as psychic psycho as u.
Scolari didnt have the luxury of a full season but u cited his tenure as part of the "100% failure" or not winning the league with the diamond. . . Is the league decided in February? How much idio-cy can one PH man possibly exhibit?
The argument is about Chelsea's current squad and this 0.5 witted buffoon is telling me how the 4-3-3 won the league for Chelsea years ago when they had Robben, Duff, SWP.
How does AG's/GH's average points per game tell us they would have won the league if they were in charge from the start? Incase ur too busy being an slowpoke to understand, FOOTBALL IS NOT MATHEMATICS.
You, my friend, have the intellectual capacity of an incapacitated parasite dwelling within an intoxicated rodent's severed knee ligaments

ritchboy:

You, my friend, have the intellectual capacity of an incapacitated parasite dwelling within an intoxicated rodent's severed knee ligaments

[i]F[/i]ucking Hell. . . . .

Ibime 5-6 Ritchboy.

This battle is fierce. . . . . .Who is going to carry the day?
Fat Ibime or PoorBoy??

ritchboy:

How does AG's/GH's average points per game tell us they would have won the league if they were in charge from the start? Incase your too busy being an slowpoke to understand, FOOTBALL IS NOT MATHEMATICS.
You, my friend, have the intellectual capacity of an incapacitated parasite dwelling within an intoxicated rodent's severed knee ligaments

You lack the linguistic flourishes to duel with me boy. You're vocab is so limited, your best riposte to my verbal volleys was to talk about me having "the intellectual capacity of an incapacitated parasite dwelling within an intoxicated rodent's severed knee ligaments."

Ask yourself this pertinent question:

How is the intellectual capacity of a parasite characterised by the fact that:

(a.) he is incapacitated
(b.) he lives inside a rodents knee ligaments

Whilst describing the parasites living condition, you lack the linguistic ability to describe how that parasite relates to my honourable self, or how the parasites living condition relates to its intellectual capacity. 

Ibime:

You lack the linguistic flourishes to duel with me boy. Your vocab is so limited, your best riposte to my verbal volleys was talk about me having "the intellectual capacity of an incapacitated parasite dwelling within an intoxicated rodent's severed knee ligaments."

Cheese n Rice. . . . . . .Don't hit below the belt, Ibime.
Fair Play is a virtue all and sundry must deploy.

Ask yourself this pertinent question:
How is the intellectual capacity of a parasite characterised by the fact that:

(a.) he is incapacitated
(b.) he lives inside a rodents knee ligaments

Holy Moses!!!!
Ibime's gone NUCLEAR.
Touche, rent boy. . . . Touche.

Whilst describing the parasites living condition, you lack the linguistic ability to describe how that parasite relates to my honourable self. 

PRICELESS.

Latest Score:
Ibime 13-6 Ritchboy.

ritchboy:

Can u actually quote the posts that suggest "we" are talking about the league alone? your imminent failure to do so is evidence u are a big fat smelly liar and should be put in a plastic bag labelled "Ibime's Delusion" in Kirikiri
how do u expect me to understand "100%" success/failure means winning the league or not winning the league?

The following should teach you never to get jump into arguments without knowing the why's and wherefores and the constraints that bind the argument.

Ibime:

As a rejoinder to Nateevs and Jalethers earlier discussion, I would like to contribute the following points:

(a.) Blaming players for the formation not working is counterproductive. The 4-3-3 formation covers players individual deficiencies allowing the team to shine. These players have ALWAYS been successful with 4-3-3. The players are not bad, the management is!!!


I shall expatiate:


JM: 2004/2005: 4-3-3 formation: Successful!

JM: 2005/2006:  4-3-3 formation: Successful!

JM: 2006/2007: Diamond formation: Failure! Lot of people forget JM played diamond formation in 07 to accomodate Shevchenko

Avram Grant: 2007/2008: 4-3-3 formation: Successful!

Phil Scolari: 2008: Diamond formation: Failure!

Guus Hiddink: 2009: 4-3-3 formation: Successful!

Carlotti: 2009/2010: Diamond formation: Trending toward failure (certainly on no of games won)



Based on average points per game, Avram Grant and Guus Hiddink would have won the league if given the full season. Therefore I posit that we have NEVER lost the league playing our favourite 4-3-3, and we have ALWAYS lost the league playing with a diamond midfield.

You, my friend, have the intellectual capacity of an incapacitated parasite dwelling within an intoxicated rodent's severed knee ligaments.

See grammar.

Ibime:

Therefore I posit that we have NEVER lost the league playing our favourite 4-3-3, and we have ALWAYS lost the league playing with a diamond midfield.

I disagree. . . . . .
What about the age factor? What about the maturity of SAF's fledglings that coincided with the period of Chelsea's diamond formation?
Surely, the likes of Terry, Carvalho, Cech, Lampard and Drogba have aged considerably and nowhere near the pristine condition they were between 2004 and 2006.

~Sauron~:

What about the age factor? What about the maturity of SAF's fledglings that coincided with the period of Chelsea's diamond formation?
Surely, the likes of Terry, Carvalho, Cech, Lampard and Drogba have aged considerably and nowhere near the pristine condition they were between 2004 and 2006.

Of course we have to factor in age. In an attempt to qualify this statement I have shown that Guus Hiddinks ave points per game would have guaranteed the league (based on the statistics) knowing that 2004-2006 has less relevance than 2009.

My statement is not ambiguous:

"Therefore I posit that we have NEVER lost the league playing our favourite 4-3-3, and we have ALWAYS lost the league playing with a diamond midfield."


Whilst we cannot categorically say that GH would have won the league (because who knows how Man Utd would have reacted to GH copping points), we can categorically say that GH never lost the league. Scolari's diamond lost the league.

Again I say: We have NEVER lost the league playing our favourite 4-3-3.

Disprove!

~Sauron~:

I disagree. . . . . .
What about the age factor? What about the maturity of SAF's fledglings that coincided with the period of Chelsea's diamond formation?
Surely, the likes of Terry, Carvalho, Cech, Lampard and Drogba have aged considerably and nowhere near the pristine condition they were between 2004 and 2006.

Which is a very valid argument.
All other arguments like having enough capital to blow around . .
Having a bigger squad in 04/05.
Selling more players than buying over the years. .

Losing players like Gallas, Makalele, Eidur, Crespo, Robben, Duff, SWP - highly gifted and technically astute players (except SWP of course)  and replacing them with Malouda, Mikel, Kalou, Belletti, Shevchenko and Ballack.

Several others things that come into the picture. . . It's not enough to suggest we stopped succeeding when we started playing the diamond.

What's up with all this grammar sef, abeg ibime and ritchboy no crash my PC with una grammar oo

incapitated,intoxicated say wetin, na verb/adjective abi na name of shoe polish

Ibime:

Of course we have to factor in age. In an attempt to qualify this statement I have shown that Guus Hiddinks ave points per game would have guaranteed the league (based on the statistics) knowing that 2004-2006 has less relevance than 2009.

This is preposterous!!!!
Liverpool's run between August 2008 and Jan Dec 2008 would have guaranteed the league(based on statistics).
I fail to see how that applies. Have you considered the fixtures played under Guus Hiddink?
Did he face Man Utd or Liverpool in the league throughout his stay @ SB?

My statement is not ambiguous:

"Therefore I posit that we have NEVER lost the league playing our favourite 4-3-3, and we have ALWAYS lost the league playing with a diamond midfield."


Whilst we cannot categorically say that GH would have won the league (because who knows how Man Utd would have reacted to GH copping points), we can categorically say that GH never lost the league. Scolari's diamond lost the league.

The ambiguity in this sentence can sink the titanic.
Scolari's diamond did not lose the league for Chelsea. The attitude of your senior players did.
Drogba was rotten under Scolari. Players like Terry, Lampard, Malouda regressed in leaps and bounds.
The loss of Michael Essien for a long period of time was also a HUGE factor.

Again I say: We have NEVER lost the league playing our favourite 4-3-3.

Disprove!

I agree 100% you have never lost the league playing your 4-3-3 formation BUT Ancellotti won 2 European cups playing the diamond formation.
He shoulda won 3 but for Gerrard's antics.
Ancellotti did not stumble on the diamond formation by circumstance. . . . . .It has always been his preferred formation and if i were you, i will trust him to deliver with it having done so with AC Milan.

Ibime
what u quoted doesnt suggest u were talking about the league alone by any means. As predicted, u have failed to show us how a sane person who doesnt speak ur psycho-lingo would've known, thus illuminating ur status as the LRNA(last real nigga nincompoop alive)
then u ask me to describe how the parasite relates to ur "honorable self"? Ibime is clutching at Ribena straws. . . For a man who claims to "flourish linguistically", u couldnt decipher ur intellectual capacity(or lack of) is the binding factor? Ur English teacher should be shot 11 times in his navel.
if we were in a cypha, u wouldve been thrown out of the stage drenched in the juices of various fruits thrown at ur ugly face.
U have lost, woefully. . . now go home and lick ur wounds b4 i pour adulterated acid on them

The mathematical analysis of the periods Hiddink and Grant were in charge is flawed at best.

You cannot extrapolate a run of games and extend it over the entire season. If you could do so, Newcastle would've won the league with their superb 12 point lead over Utd a while ago. . . .Arsenal would've won the league in 07/08 given the team's form up till mid March.

Defensive weaknesses have led to your downfall - I don't think it's a failure to score since Chelski has scored almost as many goals as anyone else this season. It's primarily the defensive flaws that have led to this current situation.