Tsiya:

Actually the British did not leave power in the north. The British left a loose federation of 3 nations, where individual regions control their economic and political system.

Yes the British left three loose regions but the British also doctored the census figures to make the North have a electorate. It is no secret that the British wanted to rule Nigeria indirectly post-independence.

Beaf:

Everywhere I look, it says Ondo state has an indegenous Ijaw population called Apoi and Arogbo.

This link describes the Arogbo as middlemen in the slave trade http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arogbo_clan

from your link

The Arogbo migrated to their present location from the town of Gbaran in the central Niger Delta

capturing slaves from where and selling to who?

OAM4J:

The hausas, Kanuris, nupes, fulanis and the other tribes that made up the north had little in common pre the formation of Nigeria as a state. But Amadu Bello succeded in creating one political North.

But it so difficult/impossible for us to have one south

Uthman Dan Fodio had already united the North with the Jihad. Northern Emirs were already subservient to the Sultan of Sokoto before the British came. Ahmadu Bello was Dan Fodio's grandson. The North had/has a feudal system similar to what the Europeans had in the middle ages. Would such unity have been possible in the South where everyman has a voice?

Ahmadu Bello was Dan Fodio's grandson

really

Would such unity have been possible in the South where everyman has a voice

that's putting it extremely nicely and whitewashing the state of things in the south.

Disorganized and anarchic is more like it.

Here is the information i found at the link provided by a user on this thread . . .

Katsumoto:

I don't need to provide any academic link; let the Ijaws claim they were part of Ondo state before Independence. To answer your question, yes, they are guests. T[b]hat is the problem with Migration sometimes; guests forget they are guests. Just like the Asian muslims clamouring for Sharia law in the [/b]UK.

you are right. . . but then everyone is a guest. . . why are you people so focus about this minor thing

@katsumoto

I don't know if it is true . . .but I think i have heard somewhere before that the language spoken around the Areas of Ondo and Itsekiri is closer to the ancient Yoruba than the normal Yoruba that every one is now generally speaking . . .

Can u confirm whether this is true or not . . .

tpia.:

really






that's putting it extremely nicely and whitewashing the state of things in the south.

Disorganized and anarchic is more like it.

Yes he was, thats why he had such a god-like status in the North.

No2Atheism:

@katsumoto

I don't know if it is true . . .but I think i have heard somewhere before that the language spoken around the Areas of Ondo and Itsekiri is closer to the ancient Yoruba than the normal Yoruba that every one is now generally speaking . . .

Can u confirm whether this is true or not . . .

I have heard that but I don't know how true it is. Its similar to the Yoruba dialect spoken by the Ilajes.

@@@@@
na wa oh

lets face this!!! all yall something

is fractionising the country really the way to go

ehhhh??


what a hell; was it not the same lagos and "this is ogun state sign post"i drove by on the way to lagos like two women sorting it out in the market sq

is this how these fake faceless coward will run their buisness?

just wondering in the end half of the habitant will be take over by aliens u never anticipate

Katsumoto:

I don't need to provide any academic link; let the Ijaws claim they were part of Ondo state before Independence. To answer your question, yes, they are guests. That is the problem with Migration sometimes; guests forget they are guests. Just like the Asian muslims clamouring for Sharia law in the UK.

- Unfortunately . . . you are making a very serious claim and allegation against the Ijaws . . . hence the protocol of discussion requires you to at least provide a third party source of referenc with which we can use to verify your information.

- Yes i understand the perspective of that of Asian muslims in the UK that is why i sometimes simply do not understand the mindset of muslims . . . in general . . . cus from history, what happened in Britain also happend in Ilorin in that Fulani can to ilorin as invitees . . .yet here you have today they seem to be ruling Ilorin almost as indigenes .

That is why it is weird when i see a muslim openly claiming they want to islamise Britain considering that they are guests in britain and considering that Britons have every right to kick them out of the country for even dearing to try to take over a country that never belonged to them in the first place.

Tsiya:

you are right. . . but then everyone is a guest. . . why are you people so focus about this minor thing

because there's a lot of fighting and killing in the region when people struggle over land or whatever.

I don't know if it is true . . .but I think i have heard somewhere before that the language spoken around the Areas of Ondo and Itsekiri is closer to the ancient Yoruba than the normal Yoruba that every one is now generally speaking . . .

dont know about that.

Some parts of the midwest speak an ancient Yoruba dialect which isnt found anywhere else though.

Katsumoto:

Uthman Dan Fodio had already united the North with the Jihad. Northern Emirs were already subservient to the Sultan of Sokoto before the British came. Ahmadu Bello was Dan Fodio's grandson. The North had/has a feudal system similar to what the Europeans had in the middle ages. Would such unity have been possible in the South where everyman has a voice?

No wonder the British found it easier to hand over to the Northerners since it would be easier to exploit Nigeria as they Northerners already had an exploitative and control system similar to what existed in europe centuries earlier . . .

This raises the question as to why Southerners then agreed to continue in the abberation known as Nigeria . . .immediately the British left . . . cus reports shows that the British knew the Southern Nigeria was more developed than Northen Nigeria in economic terms . . . yet they were hell bent on handing over power to the North . . . (Divide and rule concept)

Tsiya:

you are right. . . but then everyone is a guest. . . why are you people so focus about this minor thing

We are not focusing on it; it is important to state facts. The Ijaw migrated to the Ilaje areas of Ondo state.  Not everyone is a guest; the japanese are not guests in Japan, the Fulani's are not guest in the North-western part of Nigeria, the Igbos are not guests in the Southwest. The Ijaws being riverine, easily migrated along the coastal areas from Rivers to Ondo.

tpia.:



dont know about that.

Some parts of the midwest speak an ancient Yoruba dialect which isnt found anywhere else though.

Edit:

@tpia

So you also heard about that ancient Yoruba . . . thingy . . .


It seems Yoruba areas and people might actually be larger than people imagined cus . . . I even remember speaking to a Ghanaian here in the UK and to my suprise the Ghanian was saying with confidence that they were a group of Indigenous people in Ghana who are actually Yorubas . . . even though I don't think they were using the name Yorubas to refer to themselves.

@Katsumato
Ijaw people are not guests. The very first people in Southern Nigeria were the Ijaws, others are their guests. Everybody migrated from somewhere else, but the Ijaws have been around like forever. They even have indegenous settlements in Lagos too.

No2Atheism:

- Unfortunately . . . you are making a very serious claim and allegation against the Ijaws . . . hence the protocol of discussion requires you to at least provide a third party source of referenc with which we can use to verify your information.

- Yes i understand the perspective of that of Asian muslims in the UK that is why i sometimes simply do not understand the mindset of muslims . . . in general . . . cus from history, what happened in Britain also happend in Ilorin in that Fulani can to ilorin as invitees . . .yet here you have today they seem to be ruling Ilorin almost as indigenes .

That is why it is weird when i see a muslim openly claiming they want to islamise Britain considering that they are guests in britain and considering that Britons have every right to kick them out of the country for even dearing to try to take over a country that never belonged to them in the first place.

Actually, Uthman Dan Fodio and the Jihadists sacked Ilorin, which was an out post town of the Oyo Empire, around the 18th century. It was their, the Jihadists, to islamatise the South-West but they only succeeded in sacking Ilorin before the Oyo Empire, which was an ailing empire at that time, fought back.

No2Atheism:

@tpia

So you also heard about that ancient Yoruba . . . thingy . . .


It seems Yoruba areas and people might actually be larger than people imagined cus . . . I even remember speaking to a Ghanaian here in the UK and to my suprise the Ghanian was saying with confidence that they were a group of Indigenous people in Ghana who are actually Yorubas . . . even though I don't think they were not using the name Yorubas to refer to themselves.

You people better stop this bullsh*t. If you can't travel and see things for yourselves then you aren't living, There's no need talking stupidly about places you know nothing about. Tpia is a fool, you don't have to join her.

Beaf:

@Katsumato
Ijaw people are not guests. The very first people in Southern Nigeria were the Ijaws, others are their guests. Everybody migrated from somewhere else, but the Ijaws have been around like forever. They even have indegenous settlements in Lagos too.

If you go all over the world, you are bound to see old portugese relics. You can even see them in Warri and other parts of the ND. Thats because the portugese were early travellers but it does not mean the portugese can claim any other country as theirs. The Ijaws were travellers; end of story.

No2Atheism:

@tpia

So you also heard about that ancient Yoruba . . . thingy . . .


It seems Yoruba areas and people might actually be larger than people imagined cus . . . I even remember speaking to a Ghanaian here in the UK and to my suprise the Ghanian was saying with confidence that they were a group of Indigenous people in Ghana who are actually Yorubas . . . even though I don't think they were not using the name Yorubas to refer to themselves.

a lot of migration happened in past centuries.

Some societies also brought in slaves from other tribes and kept some of them permanently instead of selling or sacrificing them. The slaves became part of the host tribe and even joined the army on occasion, with the attendant duties. Many of the ones spared were skilled workers though.


many other explanations for the widespread presence of "displaced" tribes in other places.

Katsumoto:

Actually, Uthman Dan Fodio and the Jihadists sacked Ilorin, which was an out post town of the Oyo Empire, around the 18th century. It was their, the Jihadists, to islamatise the South-West but they only succeeded in sacking Ilorin before the Oyo Empire, which was an ailing empire at that time, fought back.

Edit:

- Yes I know about the Jihadist thingy . . .

- However what i am saying is that Yorubas own Ilorin and still do (even though Fulanis are ruling)

- The point I am making is that: Afonja was the one that initially invited the Fulanis to Ilorin so that they could help fight the Alafin . . . (whom Afonja had fallen out with).

- According to historical records, the Fulanis then turned around and took over Ilorin from Afonja . . .and hence how fulani rule started in the Yoruba land known as Ilorin. .

No2Atheism:

@tpia

So you also heard about that ancient Yoruba . . . thingy . . .


It seems Yoruba areas and people might actually be larger than people imagined cus . . . I even remember speaking to a Ghanaian here in the UK and to my suprise the Ghanian was saying with confidence that they were a group of Indigenous people in Ghana who are actually Yorubas . . . even though I don't think they were not using the name Yorubas to refer to themselves.

That is because the Oyo empire stretched from Yorubaland all the way to parts of Ghana. It was necessary for trade in those days.

tpia.:


a lot of migration happened in past centuries.

[b]Some societies also brought in slaves f[/b]rom other tribes and kept some of them permanently instead of selling or sacrificing them. The slaves became part of the host tribe and even joined the army on occasion, with the attendant duties. Many of the ones spared were skilled workers though.


many other explanations for the widespread presence of "displaced" tribes in other places.

The ones your family sold.

No2Atheism:

- Yes I know about the Jihadist thingy . . .

- However what i am saying is that Yorubas own Ilorin and still do (even though Fulanis are ruling)

- The point I am making is that: Afonja was the one that initially invited the Fulanis to so that they could fight the Alafin . . . (whom Afonja had fallen out with).

- According to historical records, the Fulanis then turned around and took over Ilorin from Afonja . . .and hence how fulani rule started in the Yoruba land known as Ilorin. .

You are correct.

Beaf:

@Katsumato
Ijaw people are not guests. The very first people in Southern Nigeria were the Ijaws, others are their guests. Everybody migrated from somewhere else, but the Ijaws have been around like forever. They even have indegenous settlements in Lagos too.

Katsumoto:

If you go all over the world, you are bound to see old portugese relics. You can even see them in Warri and other parts of the ND. Thats because the portugese were early travellers but it does not mean the portugese can claim any other country as theirs. The Ijaws were travellers; end of story.

@katsumoto

Do you now see why i said it helps to provide a third party source of informatino . .  .cus as far as protocol of a discussion is concerned. . . beaf cannot be faulted and neither can what he is saying be confirmed.

Hence until u provide a third party source of information, for everyone to very . . . it would all just be back and forth banter . . .that can go on for ever  . . .


For example . . .

- Reports indicate . . . that Itsekiri are actually a group of Yoruba people whose language and culture has become a very different from the general yoruba people . . .

- This statement above was backed up by the image  below . . .

- Hence other people can then convince themselves based on that there might be a very high element of truth in the statmeent that Itsekiri are actually Yorubas by blood . . .

Hence i would advise you at least provide something similar so that we can be sure about what you are saying about the Ijaws . . .

^
If you read from the beginning, I provided a link with some info.

Beaf:

The ones your family sold.

try to be coherent and not let sentiment color your common sense.

You were the one claiming Ijaws in Ondo state bought and sold slaves from and to somewhere.

Did I say I'm Ijaw?

Do you get what I'm saying or are you a lost cause.

Beaf:

^
If you read from the beginning, I provided a link with some info.

- I saw it

- It is wikipedia . . . I don' t reckon with wikipedia. . .I inheretly distrust anything on wikipedia cus i know even me can add and create history on wikipedia. Hence i always advise people not to use wikipedia.

- Even the link (which i don't reckon with) made a statement that Ijaws migrated from somewhere else to the part of Ondo . . .

- According to the link (which i don't reckon with) present location is in Ondo . . . former location is in Gbaran

- According to the maps . . . Gbaran is located in an Area which to my own untrained eye looks like the main non-yoruba Nigeria Delta . . . that does not include Ondo state.

- Since I am not good at reading longitudinal and latitudinal coordinates, can someone please help me inteprete whether those Gbaran coordinates fall within Ondo State or not . . .


Check the image yourself . . .

additional

final one

See map!

Are becomerich in disguise? You just put me off the topic.