all4naija: It is sad to see South African laying claim to independence his people fought for to be FREEDOM day and such is different from the actually independence the world recognized! My friend it is sad though. I know Nelson Mandela and others who lost their families fighting for independence won't be happy with this your statement.

Now, I know your country independence was given to you on a platter of gold by the Dutch.Huh!

agaugust:

the posts were quality not something else. modern weapons in nigeria, NOT available in south africa.

i replied @andrewza's naval blockade of nigerian waters, my war simulation defeated south africa navy...using nigeria's superior space technology advantage over south africa....and our better firepower on land stretching into the ocean 40km from nigerian coastal stacoashores...while we remain on land shooting form there.

Mbuisi:

Nigerian war history, same as that of Kenya. It does not have much impact.

agaugust:

the posts were quality not something else. modern weapons in nigeria, NOT available in south africa.

i replied @andrewza's naval blockade of nigerian waters, my war simulation defeated south africa navy...using nigeria's superior space technology advantage over south africa....and our better firepower on land stretching into the ocean 40km from nigerian coastal stacoashores...while we remain on land shooting form there, that is on page 236 of this thread.
if you want to remain in dreamland...its your choice. nigeria is NOT on the list of nations south africa can defeat in war, i have proved that on this forum beyond any reasonable doubt.

sithwell:

All4Naija - of all the arguments you've ever made, this is the one that's done the most harm to you and the statements you've made on this forum. What I thought was due to your Nigerian pride is actually due to your inability to tell independence and freedom apart.

This is a basic concept that shouldn't have to be explained to someone like you. That you keep pushing this argument through even though I've recommended you stop means this is entrenched in the thinking of Nigerians like you and that guy, whose tweet I shared yesterday. You really believe that you are right.

It's very disappointing, because time has been wasted debating things beyond the elementary, when we would have done better to start with the elementary.

all4naija: It is sad to see South African laying claim to independence his people fought for to be FREEDOM day and such is different from the actually independence the world recognized! My friend it is sad though. I know Nelson Mandela and others who lost their families fighting for independence won't be happy with this your statement.

Now, I know your country independence was given to you on a platter of gold by the Dutch.Huh!

sithwell:

No point restating things you've already stated to other debaters on this forum. I have read and the retorts from South Africans dealt sufficiently with the points that you now want to raise again.

Let's not go back. Come up with something new.

all4naija: This is among the reason I find your comments very funny at times. We have argued this particular matters with scores of South Africans in this forum who told us SA was just a 19 years independent country. We argued and took the same side your took but we later found out we were wrong. The truth is that your independence was recognized around the world in 1994, the so called FREEDOM day. So, you better learn to accept it or remained adamant.

all4naija: This is among the reason I find your comments very funny at times. We have argued this particular matters with scores of South Africans in this forum who told us SA was just a 19 years independent country. We argued and took the same side your took but we later found out we were wrong. The truth is that your independence was recognized around the world in 1994, the so called FREEDOM day. So, you better learn to accept it or remained adamant.

sithwell:

No. South Africa's democracy is 18 years old. Democracy is not independence. Since when do you listen to South Africans? You always do your own research. And now you want to tell me what South Africans say , in support of the most ignorant arguments you've come up with, to date?

You do have this tendency of thinking your finding arguments funny or laughable means they can be dismissed. It doesn't matter that you find arguments laughable. What matters is what you have in return. So far, you keeping beating the same drum and doing a disservice to all Nigerian debaters.

sithwell:

No. South Africa's democracy is 18 years old. Democracy is not independence. Since when do you listen to South Africans? You always do your own research. And now you want to tell me what South Africans say , in support of the most ignorant arguments you've come up with, to date?

You do have this tendency of thinking your finding arguments funny or laughable means they can be dismissed. It doesn't matter that you find arguments laughable. What matters is what you have in return. So far, you keeping beating the same drum and doing a disservice to all Nigerian debaters.

all4naija:
1.

From this in 1973





2.

To this in 1994



Each of them speaks for itself about SA independence.

Mbuisi:

Point of correction, 19 years in democracy is the right words to use.

Mbuisi:

And whose flag is that one above?

That is the reason I say you don't know anything about the history of SA. Google on that,dude!

agaugust:

they retorted with lies that even a fresh army captain will laugh at and throw in the gabbage bin.

even the chief of naval staff of south africa CANNOT break through the nigerian coastal defences i built up, only nations like america, china, britain will break through it.

you just wanna hide behind your own finger @sithwell. lol

if south africa is looking for who to defeat in war...go try kenya...you might be lucky, masai soldiers are very skinny !...and try avoid seleka rebels anywhere you hear that name.

agaugust: proudly naija

all4naija: The world recognized that as your independence day. You celebrate no other independence than that one. Jeez! You have no argument here,please.

all4naija: The world recognized that as your independence day. You celebrate no other independence than that one. Jeez! You have no argument here,please.

Mbuisi:

If the whole world thinks like then surely Kenya does not think like that. There's no so called independence day in SA calendar. If you are claiming SA fought for independence which was gained in 1994. From whom SA became independent by the way?

sithwell:

Isn't that what's always been your official position? South Africans are lying. So what's the point, then? You keep saying the same stuff. "Seleka and lies", you shout. Nothing more.

You've been told South Africa wants a stable Africa. It's got nothing to do with who to defeat next. So, no war is better than war.

Perhaps that difference in thinking is what explains the differences between South Africa and Nigeria. Wars aren't fought for the fun of it. Wars are fought to protect the freedoms and comforts of citizens.

Southern Africa has seen no war in recent times. Nigeria was military ruled until just yesterday. What's the point of all this military might (so called, anyway) if freedoms and comforts aren't guaranteed? Nigeria might as well forget about war, and spend is money building roads and forging peace within its borders.

Your countrymen keep talking about black and white in South Africa, but Nigerian nationhood is in tatters today. Have a look at the tweet below, to see the tribalism on display; and the call for a split. These are real-time conversations from ordinary Nigerians that we see everyday. Yet, you guys are here talking about a supposedly great military.

What business have you guys got fighting wars? What's the point, exactly?

Mbuisi:

If the whole world thinks like then surely Kenya does not think like that. There's no so called independence day in SA calendar. If you are claiming SA fought for independence which was gained in 1994. From whom SA became independent by the way?

agaugust:

post weblink sources to show us a war Kenya fought with half a million soldiers and airforce plus navy. post now my student...you need to finish school to learn wisdom....you just too small !

all4naija: This is funny of people who are going through different forms of internal disturbance, from resource control to black empowerment which have resulted in some horrible scenes.

Nigerians know war are fought for survival and for better future not for freedom alone.Many wars have not brought about peace in many countries.Fighting war for the single purpose of peace is over-exaggerated and might not likely bring about peace.

You are missing economic problems with military capacity to fight in wars. I think they are two different things. Seeing Nigerians around in your country is as a consequence of economic problems(in search of greener pasture) and the tendency of many want to travel out.

Mbuisi:

Please be informed that Nigerians are not that very good in flying machines. We as Kenyans we are the better pilots than Naija. Admit it, bad piloting is in your blood and no matter how they helped you to improve it, but it just couldn't work. You are too cowards to fly the plane with a skill and passion. No wonder why air passengers are always doubting your skills at Airports and always complain that they will not board a Nigerian plane.

sithwell:

South Africa has no ongoing conflict. Nigeria does. Yet, Nigerians are sitting here telling is they can defeat the whole of Africa. Well, how about your defeat your troublesome fellow Nigerians first? How about that? Curbing ongoing conflict is exactly what a country's military is there for. First and foremost. Everything else of secondary.

So, that you have a strong army is totally irrelevant. Never mind the question of whether your army is indeed strong. There's no point in the bravado.

all4naija: From the white rule. It is clear in what I posted before. Independence from white minority rule in 1994, which is the recognized independence by the world and the celebrated one in SA, my friend.

Mbuisi:

It is just that you want to agree with us but you are using the wrong terminology. In accordance with your understanding independence=freedom. The truth of the matter is that black people in SA never fought for independence, because by independence you will be insinuating that black people in SA wanted to establish their own state/country in SA, more like Lesotho or Swaziland. Black people in SA fought for freedom from oppressive laws called apartheid. They finally realised their struggle in 1990 when the then National Party agreed to negotiate for the Government of Unity through CODESA 1 and 2.

sithwell:

That's your argument? Because we celebrate no other Independence Day, then the advent of democracy is the same thing as independence?

What kind of logic is that? Whenever you read about April 27, it says clearly - this is the day South Africa had its first democratic elections. Now, if the world (wonder who) decides to call this Independence Day, then it means we had independence on April 27? How so now?

If I call Christmas Easter, then suddenly the birth of Christ is the same as his death? Come, Sir. Reconsider.

all4naija: Military is mainly meant to defend the sovereignty of any nation.

The internal disturbances in Nigeria are typical and as such not conflicts which require what you are asking for.

Terrorism is indeed world problem as such it is not restricted to Nigeria. Many developed countries are fighting it one time or the other. There is no single country that can boast to defeat it once and for all.

The last paragraph of your comment does not justify your military capacity though.