PhysicsMHD:

Oza nogogo has not been absorbed.

Oza nogogo is Bini. When I tried to rightfully claim them as Bini (which they are) somebody here fought very hard for them to be denied of who they are based on claims of some imperial lordship over them by a certain kingdom! I'm starting to think that this is motivated more by mineral royalties than common sense.

Somebody is talking about Benin kingdom when I am instead talking about the Bini ethnicity and I think it is a deliberate attempt to mislead. Under any reasonable definition of ethnicity, the oppressed Oza nogogo people are of the Bini stock and not of the Anioma sub-group of the Igbos. This whole claim of them being "Anioma" is absurd. Anioma is an identity created only a few decades back but it did not exist prior to the 20th century and did not even exist at the beginning of the 20th century. This claim simply has no basis. There is no way that they are absorbed when they are clearly Bini.

Why aren't they part of Edo State? Anyway this issue is about Edo migrants that have been absorbed in other communities with some of their names and government left behind.

Anyway it's tiring hearing from people who have probably never met an Anioma or Ika person, never been to a Anioma or Ika meeting, never been to an Anioma town, never witnessed Anioma culture or probably have never heard an Anioma dialect give comments on what they "know" Ika and Anioma is and what it isn't just because some loud mouth nobody's who call themselves "Ika" have no job's but to write fairytales online.

Let's settle the issue now: Go to an Arochukwu village and ask them what they call Culture and Customs, then go to an Agbor village and ask them what they call Culture and Customs. After that, rest.

ezeagu:

Why aren't they part of Edo State? Anyway this issue is about Edo migrants that have been absorbed in other communities with some of their names and government left behind.

I do not think that when Bendel state was split, an actual vote was taken on where every single community should belong. Hence you have the Oza nogogo who would prefer to be with the other Oza communities in Edo state being stuck in Delta state. This is only because of a certain river. Otherwise, despite their historical ties to Agbor, they would prefer to be with the other Oza groups.

And then you have the Igbanke. Ogbuefi has stated this elsewhere (and I can produce his specific quote), but the Igbanke were originally in Agbor district council of Asaba division in colonial times, but the obnoxiousness of the Agbor kingdom, which claimed to be their overlords, drove them away and they (the Igbanke) requested to be merged with the Benin division. They got their request granted. If not for this misbehavior on the part of Agbor, they would probably already be in Delta state today.

Also, I am extremely skeptical of claims that the Omo N'Oba arbitrarily decided one day, apropos of nothing, that the six communities of Igbanke should get six enogies and positions in the Benin Traditional Council, and I think the whole story is not actually being told there because we are hearing it from someone who is not actually from Igbanke. The move to integrate the Igbanke into Edo south as far as the Benin Traditional Council, probably has more to do with actual initiatives from people in Igbanke than it has to do with anybody in Benin. Just as Binis in Benin or the Benin palace did not make any request for the Igbanke to be in Benin division in colonial times, I doubt that this is all due to the handiwork of the Benin palace.

, Agbor is a very pompous clan, everyone around them have a sort of inferiority complex to them to point that some communities will introduce themselves to an Agbor person by explaining that they are from the bush, even agbontaen is constantly claiming Agbor even though he is Owa. Igbanke is seen as bush by the Agbor and therefore they are seen as beneath them, there's no need to lie, but the same way the Igbanke decided to be carved out of Asaba would be the same way Ozarra should have requested the same.

abagoro:

@tpia.Read this link.I opened up a thread on it but I just discovered that it was deleted.I think there is conspiracy to cover up some truth on nairaland.http://www.tribune.com.ng/sun/index.php/features/2357-a-yoruba-enclave-in-the-heart-of-igboland-story-of-ugbodu-others-in-delta-state.

Read it before they will delete.

this is actually common knowledge to people around that area and i have no idea why it's just coming out now.

like i noticed, i dont think the issue is considered that important by the people there, because they've blended into the general ika identity.

creolized as a matter of fact.

but its very interesting reading, i agree.

PhysicsMHD:



I also responded to your statement about a planned "all out attack on the Ika area" by Benin under the moniker PhysicsQED, but the spambot caught/hid the post.

what was the response?

you're welcome to feel it didnt happen ie that there was no such planned attack.

i just study history that's all. And unraveling the history of nigeria is very complicated, hence the need to have better understanding of particular eras.

PhysicsQED:

@ tpia, regarding your statement that Benin was preparing for an all out attack on Ikaland, I am very skeptical of that claim and I would like to know where you came across it when you remember your source.


So I don't think Benin was planning anything against the Ika when they had other serious issues to deal with.

I think your source possibly mixed up a Benin princes in Esan land (Orokhorho) with Ika land.

remember back then there was no ika.

i believe the punitive war was planned specifically for a town or village/s in that region.

i got this information before i even joined nl, so i cant recall which source it was from.

however, the attack would have gone ahead had the british party not been killed.

from all indications and as far as i know, which isnt much.


also, it was centuries ago so all things being equal, isnt supposed to still be a problem or incite emotions now.

physics we dash una igbanke, who wants such inferiority complex people anyway?
If una want agbor take dem too cos dey are bush too.

come and claim oshimili na thunder go fire ur yansh

igbo boy:

If una want agbor take dem too cos dey are bush too.

Which Agbor is bush? The Agbor village in your town or the mighty Agbor kingdom?

Abagworo,
I think you are biased against my participation on this forum. The way you guys are re-defining lands is scary. You are using language map to lay claims to people and land that are clearly not native tongue Igbo.

Just because a people speak Igbo today does not make them native Igbo. Beside, the recognition and respect for self-determination and self-will is the theme in contemporary society. Igbo is known to have disregarded and kidnapped the will of your neighbors in past. Your insinuations and assertions continue to point to the fact that, if you are left unchecked you will repeat the violation. Hence, it is within reason and propriety to be alert and stop you and get you to backtrack from this grandeur ambitions.

So you might as well just lay the "red carpet" for me and share your snuff 'cos Negro is not going anywhere.

The likes of Ogbuefi must not be allowed to bend and denigrate other people's heritage in the interest of getting a sixth Igbo state and as a result a buoyed population count.

I will observe and not talk unless provoked. In fact, I have not broken similar commitment on "the origin of igbo people" post. You remember?

Although the topic doesn't suggest but given the emotions you can see we are talking about some critical issues here. Nobody likes their land to be taken from them.

I refuse to wait for you to start talking about Igbo enclaves in Yoruba lands before I join, as Ogbuefi has disrespectfully demonstrated when he talked about Bini pushing into Yorubaland, clearly on a plot to start connecting dots in his phantom dream of a great Anioma.



<Quote>
PhysicsMHD:
Quote from: Negro_Ntns on Yesterday at 11:56:38 PM

It is expected that the move to create Anioma state will meet with great pushback in both Edo and Delta states.



Quote from: tpia@ on Today at 12:07:15 AM

most likely it will.


Who will oppose it in Edo state? On what grounds? What makes you think Edo state politics is even remotely concerned with what happens in Anioma?

The only possible objection I can think of is this Oza nogogo issue, but that issue is not even well known. There will most likely be no "pushback" from Edo state.

And who will oppose it in Delta state? Are you aware of the statements about "Real Delta" vs. Anioma that some of the people there make? Are you unaware of the grumbling about Warri not being the capital?

@@@ Yes, you are right about Delta. They want a managable state void of preventable discords, I forgot!@@@




I also responded to your statement about a planned "all out attack on the Ika area" by Benin under the moniker PhysicsQED, but the spambot caught/hid the post.



Quote from: ezeagu on Today at 12:40:16 AM

Their ethnicity is no longer Yoruba and never will be ever again. Their Yoruba past is evident in some things, but they have been absorbed just like the Edo migrants have. Something people will have to get over.


Oza nogogo has not been absorbed.

Oza nogogo is Bini. When I tried to rightfully claim them as Bini (which they are) somebody here fought very hard for them to be denied of who they are based on claims of some imperial lordship over them by a certain kingdom! I'm starting to think that this is motivated more by mineral royalties than common sense.

@@@ of course, and the manipulation of head count for poitical access and budgetary windfalls@@@

Somebody is talking about Benin kingdom when I am instead talking about the Bini ethnicity and I think it is a deliberate attempt to mislead. Under any reasonable definition of ethnicity, the oppressed Oza nogogo people are of the Bini stock and not of the Anioma sub-group of the Igbos. This whole claim of them being "Anioma" is absurd. Anioma is an identity created only a few decades back but it did not exist prior to the 20th century and did not even exist at the beginning of the 20th century. This claim simply has no basis. There is no way that they are absorbed when they are clearly Bini.

@@@ native language vs missionary influence @@@

Negro-ntns, your problem is that you have yet to define "native Igbo" for us, yet you're kicking against the use of speech as a determinant; the only real determinant.

ezeagu:

Which Agbor is bush? The Agbor village in your town or the mighty Agbor kingdom?

mighty gini? Agbor people are bush o, come delta state and see for yourself

igbo boy:

mighty gini? Agbor people are bush o, come delta state and see for yourself

You can't mention Anioma without Agbor. How are they bush? You know they are capable of feeding the whole of Igboland?

ezeagu:

You can't mention Anioma without Agbor. How are they bush? You know they are capable of feeding the whole of Igboland?

Can you stop that silly joke?.

Ah, Ngo "the brute".
Lmao, Tell am!

Ngodigha:

Can you stop that silly joke?.

Have you ever stood anywhere west of Onicha?

igbo boy:

physics we dash una igbanke, who wants such inferiority complex people anyway?
If una want agbor take dem too cos dey are bush too.

come and claim oshimili na thunder go fire your yansh

No way, no Igbo territory should be lost to non Igbo areas again.

ezeagu:

You can't mention Anioma without Agbor. How are they bush? You know they are capable of feeding the whole of Igboland?

technically you can mention Anioma without Agbor
A- Aniocha
N- Ndokwa
I - Ika, which i guess u can place these bush people, oh i see is it the bush that made you say they can feed the whole igboland? ok bush= fertile area
O-Oshimili where the great NZeogwu comes from


Infact i will be campaigning for Oshimili state from now on no longer anioma state cos i dont want to share a state with such bush inferiority complex people, tufiakwa. chineke ekwe kwala ihe ojoor. OSHIMILI STATE

Andre Uweh:

No way, no Igbo territory should be lost to non Igbo areas again.

At times u need to sacrifice a limb for the greater good.

If u have gangrene on one foot and u wanna survive u berra cut off that foot

igbo boy:

technically you can mention Anioma without Agbor
A- Aniocha
N- Ndokwa
I - Ika, which i guess u can place these bush people, oh i see is it the bush that made you say they can feed the whole igboland? ok bush= fertile area
O-Oshimili where the great NZeogwu comes from


Infact i will be campaigning for Oshimili state from now on no longer anioma state cos i dont want to share a state with such bush inferiority complex people, tufiakwa. chineke ekwe kwala ihe ojoor. OSHIMILI STATE

There's no difference between the claims of Ika people Oshimili people. The only difference is one is in the water and one is on fertile land.

Ogbuefi 1: @Physics,
1)I think you are the one who is being dishonest here not me.I lost count of the times I have corrected you when you deliberately tried to misrepresent facts on this thread and the language I usually see is either "mix up" , "error" and so on , Instead of admiting that your attempt to mislead (via lies ) the readers of our  comments have met a brick wall.Dont think I will leave this thread for you.No way, After all what is being discussed here was the ethnographic status of the Anioma people.

Do you actually want to compare the number of lies and errors on your part to my own errors?

Errors from me:

1. Saying that Urhobo are the group with several clans of Igbo origin when it is actually Isoko.

(Was wrong there, but the Urhobo did not have any really serious ancient conflict with the Igbo, so there was no ancient turbulent relationship there as with Benin.)

2. Forgetting that the moats were 8th century, not 7th century

(Trivial)

3. I posted a quote by some source claiming that Awolowo did something for the Oza nogogo, but there is no direct source for that provided in the article itself.

(I was too trusting of that writer there.)

4. Saying Ala and Ali do not refer to the same thing in Igbo, when it turns out that they are variants of the same thing among different subgroups.

(A complete error. Nevertheless, you couldn't explain the name Alilehan if your life depended on it.)

5. Forgetting to state that the first primary school in the Midwest in Benin city was the first non-missionary primary school, rather than the first one outright.


6. Misinterpreted the "40,000 killed" as referring to the 1967 Midwest killings alone when you meant for the entire 1966-1970 period.

(This had more to do with your vagueness in what you were referring to, actually. We were discussing the Anioma Midwestern massacres of 1967 and you instead brought up all the killings from 1966 to 1970 that I was not discussing.)




Now, here are some (but not even all) of your mistakes and deliberate lies. I noticed at least 8 lies and at least 15 errors.

Lies from you:


1.  You said every Benin historical figure in Benin is traceable to a specific family or lineage. This is so absurd and such a blatant lie that I almost can't fathom how you cooked it up.

What family was Akurankuran (the native doctor) from?

What family was Oba Ozolua's general, Laisolobi, from?

What family was the diviner Azagbaghedi from?

What family was the Iyase Ogina (the Iyase who rebelled against Oba Ohuan) from?

What family was Iken (the war hero from Uselu who inspired the title of Edaiken) from?

You have said that you are not a neophyte, but an expert on the Midwest, so I would like to think that you are sensible enough not to pretend that whatever bizarre stipulation that you can think up (such as claiming that every single Benin historical figure could easily be associated with a certain family) is actually sensible.

The problem here is that you claim to be an expert on the Midwest, but you hadn't really attempted to study all of the cultures in the Midwest.


2. Ijaws are really the ones who call Gele Gele "Gilly Gilly"

This is a blatant lie.

When I brought up the fact that Ijaws call Gele Gele by the name Gelegelegbini/Gelegelegbene and not its real name, you lied and said they called it Gilly Gilly simpy because in the 1906 quote I provided by Dennett, he decided to spell it Gilly Gilly! This same quote said a whole province of Benin had been named for Gilly Gilly in precolonial times and you're here telling people that this was all named after one Ijaw village! Rubbish.

What's even more ludicrous is that you didn't even know that Gilly Gilly vs. Gele Gele is just a matter of spelling convention based on the (audial) interpretation by those who heard the name pronounced and not any actual difference in the name that is being called or referred to.

The only people I have ever seen spell it as Gilli Gilli (which is the same as Gilly Gilly) were Binis some other Europeans, and that R.E. Dennett guy. I have NEVER seen any Ijaw source spell it Gilly Gilly.  They either refer to it as Gele Gele (how most, but not all Binis spell it) or by their own name for it, which is Gelegelegbene/Gelegelebini (which is also the name that those Ijaw historians that wrote Izon of the Niger Delta used to designate it in chapter 18 of their book). I don't know how, when there is a wealth of evidence showing that Ijaws appended bini/bene (water) to the name, you are going to try and mislead people into thinking that Ijaws are the ones who call it Gilli Gilli.

How anybody can slip such an easily identifiable lie in here and start putting on airs as some sort of expert or start accusing others of propaganda is beyond belief. That Ijaws often appended bini/bene to GeleGele, rather than always calling it by its true name is beyond dispute.

I do not care even the least bit about how the dispute was "presented to the public" by whatever worthless newspaper you read in Delta state that gave such a presentation. In one of these same toilet rags pretending to be newspapers, a certain Mr. Igini, from Delta state, commenting foolishly on the Uniben VC issue, tried to claim that Anthony Osagie was a "mediocrity" because he was a Bini. How the hell is a biochemist that was ELECTED by his peers as PRESIDENT of Nigeria's biochemistry society a "mediocrity" when compared to those who have NEVER headed an academic department in their university (they were never Dean of Science in their university, for example), and are nowhere near qualified to be elected president of the professional/academic organization of their discipline in their country?

Whoever presented the dispute as a dispute as a dispute between the "Benins of Ughoton" and the "Ijaw of Gelegele" is more worthless than Mike Igini and should not be mistaken for a human being.

3. You claimed that I said that the Jan. 1966 coup was an Igbo coup!

I have never posted anything at any time even remotely implying that the first coup was an Igbo coup, let alone saying that it was an Igbo coup but your horrible reading comprehension led you to interpret the exact opposite of what I wrote.

4. You claimed that I said that Igbos were celebrating when the Jan 1966 coup happened.

See above. More reading and comprehension problems.

5. You said there were Benin sacrifices where pregnant women were killed!

Too senile to even remember what you read about that ceremony with a masquerade imitating pregnant women and with the women sent out of the city. Reread Bradbury's book if you're going to start pretending to be an expert. If you're going to read something and store it in your memory so that you can start calling yourself an "expert" on the Midwest, try to actually remember what you read before you criticize others for more trivial things like forgetting dates.

6. I made up the name "Aileleihan"

This is what you think I made up??

"Ailele - One who refused a wrong decision.

Aileleihan - One who refused to take wrong way.

http://edoworld.net/Edo_Africa_names_dictionary_A.html

That name has existed before I was born! I didn't make the Edo language.

7. You claim that I said that Chime must have been an Igbo man.

You confused me with somebody else and then started ranting about some claim that I didn't make and don't even care about. My only belief is that the overall group (his followers) was Igbo. I didn't discuss Chima's exact ethnicity. See below for details.

8. Professor Maduemezia was nominated for a Nobel prize

Who even told you this? I'm stunned by the gullibility and ignorance displayed here. My goodness. Please familiarize yourself with the work of those physicists who have won or were actually being considered for a Nobel prize before mouthing off like this. See my next posts for details.

ERRORS from Ogbuefi:

1. Percy Talbot was a woman.

A strange assumption to begin with, since Percy is almost always used by males.

2. The Iyoba is not considered a queen before becoming Iyoba, but is only a "king's consort".

Yet another error born out of ignorance.

3. The meaning of ogie is primarily king.

Yet another error born out of ignorance and pride. You told exotik to go use google and find out what the primary meaning of ogie was and to find out about the Oba of Lagos title. You could have used it yourself (but you apparently have difficulty using a simple search engine) and you would have come across something like this:

http://edoworld.net/Edo_Africa_names_dictionary_O.html

Read the definitions claimed there for words with "ogie" in them and tell me how many times the word "king" or anything like it appears and what the meaning of ogie is there. Does the meaning claimed there (prominent/exalted) fit more with exotik's definition (honored/praised), or the definition that you claimed (king) as a primary meaning as an ignorant assumption? You can't try to blame exotik here. The primary and original meaning of ogie IS NOT king. End of discussion, take correction here and be quiet and stop exposing your ignorance.

Andre Uweh corrected me on the meaning of Ali and I immediately accepted his correction. Exotik corrected you some pages and many posts ago and you're still here blabbing about what you don't know.

4. Oba Eweka II or Oba Akenzua II approved the "slave named Edo story" from Egharevba.

More assumptions without bothering to actually find out when and where the claim came from.

5. The word Ado among the Yorubas is necessarily much younger, because "Edo" did not exist until the 15th century

Didn't think things through at all.

6. The Idu in Idubor and Idumwonyi comes from Idu being an "ancient" and original variant on Edo

Too arrogant/prideful to ask if Idu has a primary and original meaning other than what you naively assume that it does. The overwhelming majority of names with Idu in them make no reference whatsoever to the Edo people and the notion of Idu being the "original name" among the Edo people is a recent (modern) concept.

7. The Olu Eko of Eko, has a unique title for his throne, unlike the Omo n'Oba n'Edo

Too arrogant/prideful to ask any Yoruba what Eleko means!

8. (Your most recent one) Nwanze has more citations that Osagie.

Too arrogant/prideful to ask how to use google properly!

9. You said that the capital of Edo state was backward, then you admitted that you were contradicting yourself and said

"Like I said and I am contradicting myself, Benin land apart from the capital is very backward, this is fact."

Which is just silly.

10. You claimed that Edo state had a status as one of the least viable states in Nigeria when your beloved UN Niger Delta report strongly disagreed with that claim throughout ALL of the report. I'm really wondering if you read that report like you claimed.

11. You said there were "many" other Ijaw villages in Edo state besides the few you initially listed, but when you saw the tiny list of Ijaw communities listed for Edo state by an actual Ijaw website written by Ijaw people, you got evasive and started claiming that the list was incomplete.

Here is yet another (different)Ijaw site by Ijaw people:

http://www.ijawland.com/history-and-culture/58-ijaw-clans.html

EDO STATE

Abere
Ayakoroma
Gbelebu
Gelegelegbene
Ikoro
Ikusangha
Inekorogha
Ingileuba
Ofoniama
Polobubo
Siluko
Ukomu
Zide

^^^^

13 settlements and they're asking for 3-4 LGAs? Is that even enough for one LGA? No. The Ijaws themselves are listing their less than twenty towns in Edo state (neither Siluko, "Ukomu" or Gele gele should be credited to them, though so it's just 10) and you are making claims about the list being incomplete or that there are "many" other Ijaw settlements in Edo state.

12. You claimed that one had to be an "assimilated Edo" to receive any title.

More ignorance. At least two complete foreigners have received titles. You're the one who hasn't done any research.

13. You claimed the Enogie of Obayantor was Prince Edun Akenzua when it is not.

14. When I brought up the odionwere practice you naively assumed that I was saying that they were once appointed by the Oba of Benin.

This is yet more ignorance on your part. Yes it's true that the Oba of Benin confirms and removes odionweres today, but the odionwere practice precedes any Benin monarchy (Ogiso dynasty or the second dynasty).

My point about odionweres is that the odionwere practice only comes from people of actual ethnic Edo descent! It's not a practice that could be adopted through mere trade or something and other non-Edo groups have other unique and original names for the head elder of a village so the presence of odionweres means that at some point they mixed with actual ethnic Binis, they were actual ethnic Binis to begin with, or that the Oba was appointing the odionweres. I was arguing for the former points, not claiming that the Oba was appointing odionweres, but you constructed some silly argument that assumed that I meant the latter.  I would advise you to go and read up on the council of odionweres that preceded the Ogisos, since you claim to be an expert.

I don't know how you got the impression that the odionwere practice truly derives from the Oba of Benin, but you should make sure to excise whatever gave you that impression from your library. There is no way that an ancient practice which precedes the monarchy can have been created by or derived from it.

15. You claimed that I called the Igbos "cannibals"

More reading comprehension problems. I simply have never said any such thing. The belief that slaves were eaten by Europeans was a belief that was not only found among the Igbo but also among the Nupe and other groups. My point is that if one believes that people are "cursed" for the actions of groups of their ancestors, then it ought to occur to one that many groups on the planet are cursed and that certain people who are talking about the curses on others should take a look at their own group's history.

But I really am not interested in unsupportable and unfounded claims by Europeans or other Africans about cannibalism in certain areas of Africa and I would not start claiming that "Igbos were cannibals" without any actual tangible evidence. It is not in my interest to start claiming that any Africans were cannibals.

8 lies, 15 errors, and still going! There are even more errors (if I were to go through all your posts in detail) but I can't be bothered to point them all out.

And you have the nerve to compare yourself to me.

Make sure to go back to "father's library" and reread the material you base your propaganda on before you embarrass yourself again. Your problem is arrogance.

Ogbuefi 1: 2)On the Oba of Lagos issue, I personally knw that a neophyte like Exothief will bring up the matter because the title is just an example that can easily be made.I did not personally go deep into that because I personally enjoyed the post by Negro not because I agree with all the points he made but rather I saw a little info which no matter how insignificant is worth appreciating.
Exothief using a cheap example of Lagos cannot be a match for me.The title of the rulers of Lagos have always been Olueko(Eleko).The reason why it became convenient to have the title of "Oba" of Lagos is that Lagos itself is not the actual name of the town. It would sound better to have an Oba of Lagos than an Eleko of Lagos. Another reason was possibly the colonialists simply used the title "Oba'' to describe the king and that title which is the generic names of all rulers in Yorubaland ( Benin borrowed theirs therefrom) got stuck with the rulers of the town.I will give an example , de Brazza the founder of modern Congo Brazzaville from what we were told had signed treaties with "King Makoko" but in the Teke language Makoko simply means king.I will advice you take a comprehensive research of the titles of Olu Eko and Eleko(Google will help) before you start your whines over here.

1. Who is asking you,about the Oba of Lagos? I asked actual Yorubas and they told me what I wanted to know. You were wrong, period. Eleko (Olu Eko) quite simply means ruler/lord of Eko. Your whole thesis there was rubbish. Now see how you're backtracking and rambling about the Congo.

2, The problem here is that you're just such a huge neophyte but you keep parading yourself as an expert.

The word "Ogiso" is a specific title, not some sort of general designation for a king and I don't see how anyone could think that Ogie-Iso is the general kingly word unless they were completely clueless about the language.

3. It is a fact, that in the very first edition of A Short History (in which he tried to claim that the entire Benin ethnic group came from Ife) Jacob Egharevba wrote that when Obagodo (Obagodo means "high king" so it is not a literal name, by the way) came from Uhe he later "took the title Ogiso."

So I don't see how people feel the need to try to use Egharevba for their claims about the monarchy's origins, but aren't willing to accept that Egharevba believed that Ogiso was merely a specific title of the earliest Obas.

All this stuff about the Yoruba Obas having unique titles in contrast to the Edo Obas is a fairytale from ignorant neophytes like yourself. The Edo kings (Ogisos) had unique titles just as early as the Yoruba kings (Oonis), but the title of the unsuccessful first dynasty was dropped.

4. You actually claimed that "praise/honor" was a secondary meaning of ogie. This is stark ignorance.

How can "praise/honor" come from "king"? This is not something that you will manage to circumvent.

I will explain the very very simple idea that exotik was trying to get you to comprehend, but this time using a language you should have a little more familiarity with.

In the English language, there is a certain word, "noble"

What is the primary meaning of "noble" and what is the etymology of the word?

Does it have anything to do with a certain land owning, title holding aristocrat in a medieval English kingdom? No.

If you trace the etymology of the word in any dictionary, you will ultimately come to find out that the root of "noble" is the idea of being known or well-known (i.e., prominent), not being an aristocrat.

What is the secondary meaning of "noble" (that is due to how the meaning of the word was used to refer to a certain rank)? The secondary meaning is a medieval aristocrat.

Now the million dollar question, is the primary, fundamental, and original meaning of the word noble, "an aristocrat"? No! But for obvious reasons, the same word was used to designate a rank.

Exotik schooled you here, but you refused to take correction.

3)On the claim Eze Chime being a " brianless thug" I just could not stop laughing.He assaulted an old woman and what is the big deal considering the kind of lives they were living those days, Life was about survival of the fittest and most of the people some of us claim to be heroes today had unacceptable characters judging from the modern perspective of civilization. One simple question , what can you say of your Obas ? They were so kind and far from being despotic I guess, My guy just keep that emotions elsewhere.One of the Obas was so kind hearted that he demanded that his people should mourn his dead sons for three years.That is just an example.I will insist you apologise for using that word "thug" for the founder and first Obi of Obior, or else .We will just thrash out the dirts of our pasts and I bet you , the past/history of Benin is very dirty in this regard.
The principal reason for creating the Omu title is because the Obior and Issele Uku people wanted to create for their kings , a matriarchical figure who saved Benin from the invading Igala warriors.The title was not even created by Eze Chime himself !

1. Wait just one minute. Why would I take the statement back? It might be extremely offensive to you, all the people descended from him, and all the people who say that he led their ancestors away from Benin, but your statement about one of Oba Eweka II's wives being used for sacrifice, was that not offensive?

What is there to take back in a discussion with someone who was very deliberately attempting to mislead people into thinking that Oba Eweka II used one of his wives for human sacrifice because of some affair?

If you had brought some story about some ancient Oba from many centuries back using somebody for human sacrifice, I would not even have blinked and I wouldn't see it the way I see this Oba Eweka II story that you tried to perpetuate. The difference is that while all sorts of cruelties can be attached to the names of lots of figures from hundreds of years ago (such as Oba Ewuare the Great who is not viewed favorably by some non-Bini groups), and while there is no way to decisively confirm or decisively refute the claims of cruelties without additional material evidence, Oba Eweka II lived and reigned less than a century ago and was not in any way a vague figure.

It might not have occurred to you, but Oba Eweka II - as the king who restored the Benin monarchy despite some obstacles - is thought very highly of among the Edo. And you are here talking about the Obi of Obior, descended from Chima/Chime, what about the descendants of Oba Eweka II? Your hypocrisy here is just startling.

Not only will I not take anything back, I will expound on the esteemed harbinger of civilization called Chime even further.

a) Who assaults an old woman because he thinks that her servants or workers started farming on his land? In the story, was there even an attempt made at diplomacy? Was there any attempt made at getting things cleared up between the servants who supposedly overstepped their boundaries, the Queen mother, and Chima/Chime and his people? No!

When the story is looked at objectively, and not just seen as some weak attempt to say that the Iyoba of Benin was once flogged, the story clearly seems to be about the barbarous nature of a certain lowlife called Chima.

b) You say that people lived rough back then. True, but the story about the earlier killing of even a king (Oba Ohen) in that very same Edo land that Chima was in, tells us that in some places, even when people "lived rough" they still got what they had coming to them if they were too rough. The order of the murder of the Iyase by Oba Ohen is remembered as a crime and he got and took the punishment for his crime and did not have a small loyal retinue carry him away somewhere when the rebellion happened, despite the fact that he was the king. This tells us that in some ancient societies, despite how rough people were living, there was still retribution for crimes.

Now in what particular society does "servants trampling on crops" or "servants harvesting other people's crops without permission" result in a grandmother being "flogged mercilessly" as a proper retribution?

In what society is the said grandmother accosted and assaulted without any extended period for a negotiation/compromise/settlement and without any evidence being brought that the alleged farming servants even existed or that they actually did what was claimed?

c) There is a very marked difference between "living rough" and beating up old women because a few crops are trampled on or harvested without permission. In fact, this Chima must have been a very beggarly and wretched prince or soldier for him to go haywire over a few yams.

The story that you insist upon paints a very clear picture. If you believe that story then the man was a poor criminal (thug) and possibly even a psychotic.

I don't think there is anything to take back. I think that the people who made up that story should have thought harder about it when they devised it and I think you should stop practicing a double standard where you get to make offensive statements about a person who lived less than a century ago as long as they aren't from your group, but you start demanding apologies over interpretations of stories about people from hundreds of years ago who are not as clearly understood.

I really don't understand how it is that Oba Ohen goes down in Benin history as a wicked king for the killing that he ordered, but Chime goes down in some parts of Anioma as a culture hero for assaulting an old woman over a few yams and then running away with his tail between his legs.

If you think people should accept that story about an old woman being flogged over some crops by some goon, then Chime/Chima was a social degenerate, a criminal, an ancient area boy, and a misfit.