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The Descendant Of Apes - Religion (8) - Nairaland

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Re: The Descendant Of Apes by gotizsata: 8:28am On Nov 22, 2011
@folaski
astral travel OBE
hahhahhahahhaahhah
there is really no difference btwn reading about that and reading about unicorns or jesus or santa claus
there is not a shred of credible evidence out there
Like I said, there is a difference btwn what we would like to be real and what is real
it is like the stories of going to heaven, anyone can say and claim anything it is their right
it does not make it true
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 10:58am On Nov 22, 2011
Folaski, you are absolutely right. Those who can see into the spirit world are called Babalawos. When you die its only your body that dies not your soul, you become an ancestor, the ancestors live closer to the orishas, closer to Eledumare. The ancestors do still have significance here in our lives and they can guide you. Its very important to remember and honour you ancestors.

ase!
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by folaski: 11:14am On Nov 22, 2011
@gotizsata & kay17: your expressed ignorance of the spiritual is very scarery and your blunt refusal to search. Is that not an evidence of brainwash?
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by UyiIredia(m): 11:30am On Nov 22, 2011
thehomer:

Is it a conjecture? Where did God expect Cain to find a wife?

Feel free to ask God. Or continue with your conjectures.

thehomer:
As usual, you've started chasing your own tail rather than actually say something useful.

Really ! This is your explanation on your answer. You have proven beyond all doubt you have no point to make.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by UyiIredia(m): 11:49am On Nov 22, 2011
Malstrom:

You people need to update, we did not evolve from apes. We share a common ancestor BUT that ancestor walked upright and was more like a human thus apes evolved from humans!

I get that part. The problem is there is no concrete proof that this ancestor ever existed talk-less of us evolving from it. The well-known case of the Piltdown man was a fraud and the currently forwarded Australopithecus are actually known to be members of the ape family. Put simply, fossils adduced thus far (as pointers to our ancestors) are either fraudulent or misinterpreted.

Malstrom:
I believe in evolution. The creation in the bible for me is pure fantasy, or it could be a codified description in metaphors not to be taken literally.

You should familiarize yourself with the arguments of creationists and ID advocates b4 making this statement.

Malstrom:
The theory of evolution and big band does not exclude the existence of the creator!

You are wrong. Evolution in its entirety precludes the existence of a Creator. One of the fundamental basis of evolution is the belief that matter and energy are sufficient enough to create life. This is the basis of the origin-of-life aspect of evolution
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:51am On Nov 22, 2011
This is Your True Family
[img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/after-eden/20090828.gif[/img]
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 12:13pm On Nov 22, 2011
Uyi Iredia,

But evolution is about the life on earth, the creator is supposed to have existed before that and even before the whole universe. Also the power of Eledumare could be described as a kind of energy that we cannot see. I believe The creator made the universe happen, then made life happen and then life evolved into different life forms according to the will of God.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by UyiIredia(m): 12:17pm On Nov 22, 2011
Evil Brain:

Humans didn't descend from modern-day apes, that's not what the theory of evolution says. It says humans and apes descended from a common ancestor. We're like cousins.

Agreed

Evil Brain:
Also, chimpanzees are never going to evolve into humans. Chimpanzees are not "less evolved" than us. They've merely adapted differently to a different environment. They live in dense jungle, an environment where high intelligence is not that useful. Instead, they are expert tree climbers, are far stronger than humans and are extremely fast over short distances.


Okay

Evil Brain:
An average human wouldn't survive one week in the Jungles where chimpanzees thrive. Just like chimps don't do so well when taken out of their habitat.

I disagree. Based on what I've seen in programs like Survivor I can reasonably conclude that man can survive in those kinds of habitats (that chimpanzees live in) and even worse. Consider also the existence of tribes in the Amazonian jungle, Eskimos in the Artic and the pygymy peoples who live in the rainforests of Central Africa.

Evil Brain:
You need to get a proper understanding of the theory of evolution before you start criticizing it. Its about survival of the best adapted leading to gradual change over time. Its a really simple concept if you ignore all the disinformation creationists have been spreading.

And what drives these adaptations, mutations ? I hope you know mutations are almost never beneficial. In the few cases where they are beneficial (such as in antibiotic-resistant mosquitoes) they involve loss of genetic information. I am aware some creationists misrepresent evolutionists but i can assure you it isn't all of them. Besides, the evolutionists are equally guilty of this too.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Kay17: 12:25pm On Nov 22, 2011
@Uyi

Evolution does not touch on the origin of life. Microorganisms are classic cases of mutations. Also you yourself, are a product of mutation, since your parents provided the same number of chromosomes for you and your siblings but u are different, with unique variations like fingerprints

Also, ID is not science. It violates the foundations of science.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by UyiIredia(m): 12:29pm On Nov 22, 2011
Malstrom:

Uyi Iredia,

But evolution is about the life on earth, the creator is supposed to have existed before that and even before the whole universe. Also the power of Eledumare could be described as a kind of energy that we cannot see. I believe The creator made the universe happen, then made life happen and then life evolved into different life forms according to the will of God.

I believe in Young-Earth creationism and ID (the type espoused at Creation.com) When you say

I believe The creator made the universe happen, then made life happen and then life evolved into different life forms according to the will of God.

What do you mean ? Do you mean that God created all kinds of animals and allowed them to evolve within fixed limits. Or do you mean that He created the first molecule/cell and then evolution did the rest (according to His will) Whichever one is your position, evolution as truly believed does not allow for God's existence. Evolutionists only pretend otherwise to gain more supporters amongst religionists (especially Christians)
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 12:31pm On Nov 22, 2011
I think the idea of natural selection is very logic, everybody is different, some happen to be better suited for the environment they are born into, and those who are lucky enough manage pass on their offspring. Its a never ending process in nature.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 12:34pm On Nov 22, 2011
I mean the latter  smiley  and by: "according to "his" will" I mean that God is a force behind the evolution process itself and decided that it would be humans etc,

Everything was created and everything is still in control of the divine creator until infinity. Scientists who have simulated the conditions when the first life on earth started trying to make life happen have always failed, they only find themselves with a green lifeless soup lol. God is behind life its the force/energy that rules the universe. That's my view smiley
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by UyiIredia(m): 12:47pm On Nov 22, 2011
Kay 17:

@Uyi

Evolution does not touch on the origin of life.

It does. The Miller-Urey experiment was (and is still) cited as proof of the spontaneous origin of life. As a matter of fact, in Darwin's classic "On the Origin of The Species" Darwin speculated on the possibility of life starting in a biotic soup of sorts. Educate yourself more on this through websites and books.

Kay 17:

Microorganisms are classic cases of mutations. Also you yourself, are a product of mutation, since your parents provided the same number of chromosomes for you and your siblings but u are different, with unique variations like fingerprints

I am a product of genetic variation (the kind caused by sex) not mutation. Mutations are changes (usually harmful) in genetic information due to DNA copying errors sometimes spontaneously or due to environmental effects (usually excess radiation). Variations (due to sex), on the other hand, are due to the shuffling of genetic information to produce new genetic information.

Kay 17:
Also, ID is not science. It violates the foundations of science.

How does ID violate the foundation of science ? I will tell you that ID is

* based on empirical data: the empirical observation of the process of human design, and specific properties common to human design and biological information (CSI).

* a quantitative and internally consistent model.

* falsifiable: any positive demonstration that CSI can easily be generated by non design mechanisms is a potential falsification of the ID theory.

and it makes empirically testable and fruitful predictions such as the predictions on functionality of non-coding DNA made by behe, Denton and Dembski.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by UyiIredia(m): 12:50pm On Nov 22, 2011
Malstrom:

I mean the latter  smiley  and by: "according to "his" will" I mean that God is a force behind the evolution process itself and decided that it would be humans etc,

Everything was created and everything is still in control of the divine creator until infinity. Scientists who have simulated the conditions when the first life on earth started trying to make life happen have always failed, they only find themselves with a green lifeless soup lol. God is behind life its the force/energy that rules the universe. That's my view smiley

Okay. But i will tell you that if I believed in evolution, I will be an atheist. It (Atheism) is heavily implied in the theory.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Kay17: 1:10pm On Nov 22, 2011
^^ No Darwin didnt say that! Also variation is the manifestation of mutations. Check out Lenski's experiment. Besides, shuffling delicately weaven genetic info is not harmful?
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 1:24pm On Nov 22, 2011
BTW, the modern Bible is false because crucial things in it has been changed by people from its original form.

Interesting facts!
in the more original bible there is:
No resurrection to heaven for Jesus

No where that Jesus says "father forgive them because they know not what they do"

the Jews are to blame for the death of Jesus according to the old bible.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:40pm On Nov 22, 2011
Guess what Darwin said about the black man and the apes.

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes … will no doubt be exterminated. The break will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla." -- Charles Darwin

[img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/after-eden/20090925.gif[/img]
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by UyiIredia(m): 1:46pm On Nov 22, 2011
Kay 17:

^^ No Darwin didnt say that! Also variation is the manifestation of mutations. Check out Lenski's experiment. Besides, shuffling delicately weaven genetic info is not harmful?

He did. Read his book. I know of Lenski's experiment with bacteria and I am aware that mutation causes variations (which was why I mentioned that I said variations (due to sex) - check it !). However, even in cases where mutations are beneficial, it involves loss of genetic information.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by UyiIredia(m): 1:48pm On Nov 22, 2011
OLAADEGBU:

Guess what Darwin said about the black man and the apes.

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes … will no doubt be exterminated. The break will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla." -- Charles Darwin


And some people will pretend that evolution had nothing to do with racism and (negative) eugenics.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 2:00pm On Nov 22, 2011
Of course Darwin was one of the biggest racists in the world, no sensible person has said different. Darwin actually believed that humans where divided in real BIOLOGICAL races! just as many animals. And to that he applied his theory of "survival of the fittest" very very disturbing.

Evolution theory now is one thing, and Darwin's racist ideas and inaccurate applying of it among humans as races is another.
it can be applied between Humans and monkeys as races/species.

Even if evolution theory is rational and believable, it does not make Darwin a hero because he was not only a successful scientist but also rather a sick racist bastard!

Other examples of those historical individuals that white people look up to and glorify:
Carl Von Linné (father of racism)
Emmanuel Kan[/b]t (Sick racist)
[b]Voltaire (Sick racist)
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 2:12pm On Nov 22, 2011
Evolution should not be reduced to that low life Darwin himself, or how it in the beginning was corrupted by racism. When you talk about evolution today, and believe in the theory does certainly not mean you think like Darwin. Today we know there are no human races in any biological sense, but that was what scientists(whites) tried to prove at that time of course with support from the state and public opinion.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Kay17: 2:49pm On Nov 22, 2011
Pls Uyi provide the passage where he said so. Thanks! Of course, its through reproduction mutation occurs, how else apart from radiation.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:58pm On Nov 22, 2011
Uyi Iredia:

And some people will pretend that evolution had nothing to do with racism and (negative) eugenics.

The fact that our black atheist evolutionists cannot even see that Darwin and his disciples are insinuating that we are closely related to the apes is what beats me. Is this brainwashing or what? undecided
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 3:53pm On Nov 22, 2011
You do not have to be atheist to believe in evolution and you do not have to agree with Darwin's racists beliefs or the racist aspects in the young years of the theory of evolution. We are not all fundamentalists. We know humans do not even have [b]biological[/b]races to be divided by, so there falls Darwins racist theory about black people vs. white people. flat!

I believe in evolution in itself and I also think Darwin was a sick racist scum of humankind for thing that he said and thought about black people.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 3:57pm On Nov 22, 2011
Its interesting some Christians say white people and others are our sisters and brothers when they are in fact our offspring! grin

That's why racism is so ironic, because it is like shunning your own mother! They came out of us and so did their civilisations. cool
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by UyiIredia(m): 4:24pm On Nov 22, 2011
Kay 17:

Pls Uyi provide the passage where he said so. Thanks! Of course, its through reproduction mutation occurs, how else apart from radiation.

I am sorry I can't recall the part of the book where he said so. Variations occur through mutations, gene flow and sex. So you can see that mutation causes variation but not vice-versa. however you talk of mutations as if it has the power to create. It doesn't. BTW, i can't understand how you believe in evolution and not know that origin of life has lots to do with evolution. Check the term Abiogenesis on Wikipedia.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:44pm On Nov 22, 2011
Malstrom:

You do not have to be atheist to believe in evolution and you do not have to agree with Darwin's racists beliefs or the racist aspects in the young years of the theory of evolution. We are not all fundamentalists. We know humans do not even have biological[/b]races to be divided by, so there falls Darwins racist theory about black people vs. white people. flat!

I believe in evolution in itself and I also think Darwin was a sick racist scum of humankind for thing that he said and thought about black people.

William Provine sums up all the modern evolutionary biology:

[b]"Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear . . . There are no gods, no purpose, no goal-directed forces of any kind."

William Provine(Professor, Cornell University), Origins Research, Vol.16:1/2(1994),p.9, quoted in Technical Journal, vol.10:1(1996),p.22.

Evolution is an ideology that says that there does not have to be a God for the universe and all that is within it to exist.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 6:52pm On Nov 22, 2011
But what is it called then if I believe in God and also believe in natural selection and that all life on earth evolved trough time into different species?I believe God started everything and is the force behind the whole process and how humans and all life came to be

Because I do believe in Eledumare
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by thehomer: 6:59pm On Nov 22, 2011
Uyi Iredia:

Feel free to ask God. Or continue with your conjectures.

Why don't you help me ask him? He doesn't usually respond to inquiries. Maybe you'll be more successful.

Uyi Iredia:

Really ! This is your explanation on your answer. You have proven beyond all doubt you have no point to make.

No, that isn't an explanation. I'm simply pointing out what you're doing with your statements.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by thehomer: 7:06pm On Nov 22, 2011
Uyi Iredia:

I believe in Young-Earth creationism and ID (the type espoused at Creation.com). . . .

Not surprising. Though it does explain a lot of things about your mistaken notions.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:24pm On Nov 22, 2011
Malstrom:

But what is it called then if I believe in God and also believe in natural selection and that all life on earth evolved trough time into different species?I believe God started everything and is the force behind the whole process and how humans and all life came to be

Because I do believe in Eledumare

You are mixing apples and oranges here. If you believe in God you will believe that He created heavens and earth by His supernatural Power. Believing in the molecule to man evolution does not need divine intervention. Natural selection and the molecule to man evolution are different things. Natural selection doesn't drive evolution as evolutionists may like us to think. The molecule to man evolution does not add new information to the genome. Natural selection works with information that already exists. If you believe the first verse of the Bible you will not need to believe that He needed to use evolution. There is no need for compromise.
Re: The Descendant Of Apes by Malstrom(m): 8:40pm On Nov 22, 2011
It does require God to make life happen from lifeless matter. Molecule to man might not be necessary but that does not mean its not possible. God could have developed life on earth through such a process. How else do we explain the gradually changing of species over long periods in time, how do we explain the gradual change in appearance in humans as we go further and further back in time. And the Neanderthals?? That's not apes and but its not exactly like modern humans or "Homo sapiens" undecided

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