Bidam: My point is you can be religious and yet not really be a born-again child of God. But when you are born again, the very same Bible that you have been reading looks different. The Bible becomes clear and easy to understand when you are born again.It takes the Holy Spirit(The third person in the God head) to explain these things we are saying to you.

You are not "born again"! Nowhere in Scripture will you ever find a doctrine concerning a "third person in the God head." This is only one more deceptive doctrine that you offer concerning YOUR "God" that can not be found taught in Scripture. Scripture is where we are to get our doctrine for reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness, that we may be perfect and thoroughly furnished unto all righteous works. We are not to get our doctrine from so-called "Church" creeds divised by men at some later point in time, but we are to live by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of Father Yahweh. His inspired prophetic word is Scripture and is THE SWORD OF THE SPIRIT. The sword of the spirit is not the "unknown" tongues that you deceptively profess to speak.

Bidam: Too bad,my bet is that you would have believed,seeing you are an unbeliever. BTW,You are yet to address my post to the false heretic teacher you posted.

No, it is not "too bad", but righteous! You lose the bet BTW! I am a believer that does not believe in the false doctrine of speaking in "unknown" tongues. As far as the excerpt of the article that I posted, it speaks for itself in plain English and not an "unknown" tongue! As far as addressing your post, it is nothing but lies of deception!

shdemidemi:

... Anyway I don't have a clue of what you said there.

Maybe Bidham was speaking in an "unknown tongue" Nah! Gibberish!

Bidam: My trying hard is in defense of the real gospel,yours is in propagating deceptive doctrines and lies.You see the difference?

Your twisting ["wrest" {2 Kepha (Peter) 3:16}] and perversion of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word is in fact propagating deceptive doctrines and lies. I have never once witnessed anyone speaking in tongues in all of the many churches that I have visited throughout my lifetime. I have never received any edification whatsoever from any of these churches that deceptively proclaimed that they spoke in tongues.

Speaking In Tongues (Languages)
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/Franklin4YAHWEH/Tongues.html

Speaking in Tongues is Only Mentioned at the Carnal Church of Corinth
Speaking in tongues is of the Devil!

By David J. Stewart

Speaking-in-Tongues is a demonic form of witchcraft allowed and practiced in many churches today; such as Pentecostal, Assemblies of God, Victory Chapel, The 700 Club, TBN, Benny Hinn, Charismatic, Church of Christ (Lax Lucado) and many Ecumenical Churches that sinfully encourage inter-denominational fellowship at the expense of Biblical doctrine and Biblical moral standards.

One of the clearest evidences from the Bible that speaking-in-tongues is not for today is the fact that the Apostle Paul ONLY mentioned speaking-in-tongues to the church at Corinth. If, as Pentecostals claim, Paul was instructing the church on how to speak in tongues, then why only the church at Corinth? Clearly, Paul was rebuking them for the carnal and worldly heresy of speaking-in-tongues. Notice carefully in 1st Corinthians 3:1 that Paul even refers to the believers at Corinth as being “carnal” and “babes in Christ.” The heresy of tongues had crept into the church at Corinth and God put it in Paul's heart to expose this wicked practice.

In all of Paul's 14 writings in the New Testament, it was only to the church of Corinth that Paul mentions the subject of speaking-in-tongues. This speaks volumes.

If speaking-in-tongues were a sign of being saved or filled with the Spirit, then certainly the Apostle Paul and the other Apostles would have mentioned tongues in every epistle; but they do not. In 1st Corinthians, Paul is really rebuking the church for being selfish as carnal Christians, for only edifying themselves instead of doing something to edify the church.

In John 14:16 Jesus promised us the “Comforter,” but there is no mention of speaking-in-tongues. None! The apostate Churches of Christ are notorious for demonic speaking-in-tongues, which is actually dealing in familiar spirits of devils. Anyone who claims to have spoken in jibber-jabber tongues is admitting that thy are carnal, likely not saved, and woefully ignorant of the Word of God.

Of all the churches that Paul wrote to in the New Testament, it was ONLY the church at Corinth whom he mentions as having had the experience of speaking-in-tongues. That plainly teaches us that speaking-in-tongues is NOT a sign of salvation or being filled with the Spirit. Here are 20 differences between what happened in Acts 2 (legitimate tongues) verses the carnal demonic experience of tongues in 1st Corinthian: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/Speaking%20in%20Tongues/speaking_in_tongues.htm

The speaking-in-tongues movement is supposedly spiritual and Scriptural; but Catholic Pentecostals have claimed that speaking-in-tongues has deepened their devotion to Mary...

Excerpt From: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/Speaking%20in%20Tongues/only_corinth.htm


Speaking In Tongues (Languages)
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/Franklin4YAHWEH/Tongues.html

benalvino:

when you debate with frank you can get like that... because you will be talking to a wood.

And when one debates with you they are talking to a peice of dung!

hisblud:

Sure you are confused.... coming out to shot yourself by turning against what you have uphold as "truth:"

I uphold what Scripture SAYS to be truth and nowhere in ANY Scripture translation does it ever uphold the doctrine "Deity of Jesus Christ." You will never find me unholding a foolish, false, deceptive, and demonic doctrine such as this!

hisblud: I think da guy is theorizing scripture by logicalizing it wit some mathematical analysis that is why frosy is aligning wit him even tho contradicting the spirit behind the scripture.

And I am supposed to be the one who is confused?

hisblud: to be as confused as you who contradict himself SMH.

Where have I contradicted myself? Simply to say someone is confused and has contradicted themselves with no further explanation as to why you believe they are or have, is totally useless in a discussion.

Again, NOWHERE in Scripture (Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word) from where we are to get our doctrine for reproof and correctrion and instruction in righteousness and by Whose EVERY WORD we are to live by, will you EVER find a "blessed Deity of Yahshua" doctrine.

There most definately is no confusion and contradiction here!

hisblud: frosbel will agree wit each and everything as long as it would disagree with the blessed Deity of Yahshua.

It would be wise to reject the "blessed Deity of Yahshua" doctrine, since such a foolish doctrine is never once mentioned or taught in Scripture from where we are to get our doctrine for reproof and correctrion and instruction in righteousness.

See: "Jesus IS God!"?
http://yahweh.yolasite.com

benalvino:

Can you point out the lie?

Its like am talking to an idol... So no point continuing with you anyway. Point have been made... Every one know you are confused person except frosbel

"both of you are not even close to what you believe concerning colossians... you just go to the internet pick any useless article that says Jesus did not preexist... even if same article says YAHWEH doesn't exist... you dont care as long as it says Jesus did not preexist."

frosbel: Sorry to say this but the Trinity doctrine makes otherwise intelligent people reason like 'imbeciles', no insult intended

I'm not sorry to say it! Insult intended!

benalvino:

oh please... the Jehovah's witness dont believe in it... but they know jesus exist before he came to earth... you are hiding or dodging by bringing the trinity into this... this is about if Jesus exist before he came to earth. so far you have tried and twist the bible and failed badly... funny how you and frank differ in colossians 1:16... according to you the all things was not all things... it was things like thrones authority etc "refers to the things needed to administer the Church."

this is from your post... and i call you deceiver again.
the authority that was in even and earth before Jesus come was what? the throne David sat on was what? when did Jesus created those things? how can David be king when Jesus hasn't been born to create authority?

before Jesus was born isaiah speaks of the government " and the government shall be upon his shoulder" if there is no authority which government is isaiah talking about then? look at your stupid post again and



^^ compare with your partner frank who says Jesus never created anything that it was only YAHWEH that created all the thrones and bla bla bla...

both of you are not even close to what you believe concerning colossians... you just go to the internet pick any useless article that says Jesus did not preexist... even if same article says YAHWEH doesn't exist... you dont care as long as it says Jesus did not preexist.

What a liar!

Isee that FATHER Yahweh "ALONE", "BY HIMSELF", with "NO ONE BESIDE HIM" is nothing but "bla bla bla..." to you!

Emusan:

I agreed.

No you don't! I agree with his being the firstborn of all creation in that he was the firstborn from the dead. You do not!

Emusan:
Ok! You're right.

And your wrong! You actually agree with all that I said as follows?:

"This is speaking specifically of him being the first resurrected from the dead, since this is what the word 'resurrection' means, being brought back from being dead. FATHER Yahweh was not brought back from being dead, but it was His SON whom FATHER Yahweh redeemed from being dead."

Emusan:
No as what, Yehweh or Yeshua?
Remember whosoever you chose is the rest of the verse is talking about, According to Whom=Him & Who=He rules as explained above by this poster

You do not like my answer? Scripture as a whole will decide for me who the rest of this verse is speaking of, not you!

Emusan:
This's the problem you people have, does that verse look like figurative statement or direct statement?

Very soon I know the whole words of Yewhew and Yeshua will be turn to a figurative speech by people who fails to open their heart to the truth.

You don't have any objection to the verse rather you resolted to figurative.

Yes, looks like a figureative statement to me!

I object to your false presentation of this verse!

Emusan:
Just give me a concise answer to my question, of that verse 14, is the blood of Yehweh or Yeshua was sheld for our sins?

Your question does not even make sense, so how am I supposed to give a consise answer to it?

Bidam: Ha! if you take that as an insult, my apologies.It wasn't intended to belittle your vast professorial knowledge and translations of the bible.But as for this 'tongues' sorry i don't agree with your opinions.

Referring to me as ignorant "wasn't intended to belittle ..."?

Emusan:

He is the first born of All creations.

Yes, he is the first born of all creation from the dead!

Emusan:
"The worlds was framed by the word of God" can anyone seperate your word from you?

And your reason for asking this?

Emusan:
He didn't, even when He said before Abraham was, I am. They want to kill Him.

When Yahshua said "Before Abraham was, I am.", he was speaking of his pre-eminence to Abraham. He was answering their question "Are you greater than our father Abraham." They most certainly did not like his answer in making it known that he was greater than Abraham!

Emusan:
What I need has been explained. Yeshua is the firstborn from dead! Is it He was the first person to died and go to heaven or resurrected?

Answer my question above!

This is speaking specifically of him being the first resurrected from the dead, since this is what the word 'resurrection' means, being brought back from being dead. FATHER Yahweh was not brought back from being dead, but it was His SON whom FATHER Yahweh redeemed from being dead.

Emusan:
See @frank oooo oh my God, I simply explained how you twisted the above verse yet you're claiming who is the creator? Yes God is the creator....I will ask you again according to that verse 14" In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"---who His blood was sheld for our sins, Yahweh or Yeshua?.... Know that the person you chose is the rest of the verse was talking about......

Is the Father Yahweh's blood was sheld for man's sins?

No!

Emusan:
I have gone through your site but what you're really talking about is "coming down from heaven as a phrase or figure of speech" which is totally different from what Jesus said in John 6:62 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?"

NOTICE the phrase "...Where he was before.." (not where He came from) why can't you just open your heart once to accept the truth?

Many people who doesn't read their Bible would have been misleaded through your site.

God help us all!

Yahshua also spoke in a figurative sense and in parables (illustrations).

No, people are directed to the truth of what Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS in that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of FATHER Yahweh and not FATHER Yahweh ["God"] as many deceptively teach.

Bidam: Where is the insult in my post

Just a few posts back you falsely accused me of being ignorant! Need I go back any further for insults (plural)? Now, would you like to know which false doctrines of the Catholic Church that you adhere to?

Bidam: God hates a feudal hierarchy,this is called the doctrine of the nicolaitanes which the roman catholics are practicing.It is the separation of God's people by elevation of the clergy or laity over the other.Jesus said the rulers of the gentiles lord over them and the great ones exercise authority upon them.The roman catholics are guilty of exercising authority as a taskmaster or supreme being over the saints which is anti-scriptural.If you check throughout the scripture,there is nothing like a lone ranger like we have as pope.Even the church in Jerusalem was run by a pluralistic eldership.Peter was never the pope. Moses was not called alone but the whole levetical tribes.Anyway this is derailing the thread,why not open a thread and let's discuss this issue maturely without throwing insults and tantrums.God bless.

I would be great if you did not adhere to the false doctrines of the Catholic Church and stop with your insults!

benalvino:

In what way are you teaching what the bible Is saying?

According to you it was the plan of Yahweh for Satan to temp Adam, for humans to suffer for death and everything bad that is happening today... Because we all exist in the plans of Yahweh so are those like Satan Adam who bring mayhem into this world. How dare Yahweh have plans like Adam and Satan and carry out his plan so we could suffer. How dare Yahweh bring bad people into this world so he could destroy them because it was his plan?

Why can't Yahweh just cancel is plan and erase the bad people from his plan?

How dare Yahweh need a virgin birth why dont he just use Elijah or moses or Abraham to save us from sin since Jesus is just human as them?

Why does the word that was in the beginning have to become flesh for Jesus and it didn't become flesh for Abraham?

Despite all the sarcasm here... They are legit reasoning and question for your deceitful teaching of the holy scripture...

U arguing with emusan... We know firstborn of all creation is not thesame as firstborn from the dead... Keep sinking in deceit

Now you sound like Bill Maher on Religulous when he said "What is He waiting for!"

Yes, FIRSTBORN of all creation is the same reference when it is says that he is the FIRSTBORN from the dead!, just as it is in the same reference to his being the FIRSTfruit of the "FIRSTfruits of the dead and Yahshua's being the "FIRST and the last."

If you believed what the Scripture says, then you would agree with me!

benalvino:

you are wasting your time... he doesn't think the bible is correct... he thinks the bible should be interpreted the way he pleases... if the bible cant convince him we cant. he has the bible but he doesn't take anything written in it.

Both of you are wasting your time in presenting lies concerning what is actually taught in Scripture, but you instead continue to promote false "Church" doctrine.

Emusan:

You're right! That's what I'm emphasing on, "FIRSTBORN of all creation" this phrase has ended all the argument about Yeshua... How can someone be called FIRSTBORN, if the person doesn't exist before others?

Yahshua is the firstborn of all creation from the dead, not first born at the beginning of creation.

Emusan:
Through Yeshua!

No, All things were created "because of", "on account of" or "for" Yahshua, not "by" or "through" him. Nowhere in the so-called "New Testament" will you find Yahshua proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING!

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

Emusan:
What do you mean by this?

You mean to tell me you set yourself up as knowing the meaning of what Scripture says, but you do not know what Scripture means when it says that Yahshua is the firstborn from the dead? You may know the meaning of your "Church" doctrine, but you definately do not know the meaning of Scripture!

Emusan:
How can Yeshua claim the FIRSTBORN of all creation, if He doesn't exist before His birth?

One need not be a pre-existent being to be the firstborn of all creation to be born from the dead!

Emusan:
Ok I agree with you. But my Whom=Him is right because you ignored it?

By removing all the puntuations mark from verse 14-18, let's see how it goes by replacing 'Whom=Him & Who=He'

Colo 1:14-18 "In whom we have redemption through his blood even the forgiveness of sins "Who is the image of the invisible God the firstborn of every creature "For by whom were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created by whom and for whom "And who is before all things and by whom all things consist "And who is the head of the body the church who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead that in all things who might have the preeminence.

Where you got it wrong is when you're switching from 'Whom to Who' whereas Whom & Who are referring to the same person.

Who:- is used as the subject of a sentence or phrase, to denote who is doing something (like he or she). While!

Whom:- is used as the object of a verb, to denote who has something done to it (like him or her). While a preposition(at, by, for, in, with, etc.) often comes before "whom", Whom is in form of speaking in a Passive voice not Active voice.

Where you have it wrong is in who is our Creator. It is FATHER Yahweh, not His SON Yahshua. This passage speaks of FATHER Yahweh as our Creator, not His SON!

Emusan:
I made mention about Matt 6:62 which says "What and if ye shall see the son of man(Yeshua) ascend up WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?" but you ignored it, why?

No, I have not ignored this, since I have been asked about it many times here and have given answer to it.

Yahshua Came Down From Heaven
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/708052764/yahshua-came-down-from-heaven

hisblud: stop lying arrogantly.

Stop arrogantly calling me a liar when this is exactly what Scripture teaches!

hisblud:

which is which, while Yashua was in the form/nature of God or form of a Servant, that the father is greater?

Yahshua said that the FATHER was GREATER than he! Why is that so hard for you to understand?

The fist Adam (man and woman) were also created in the form or image of FATHER Yahweh and He is GREATER than them.

benalvino:

hahahahaha... so we should through this away? this is a problem for you isn't it? and it also says Jesus alone created the Heavens... you remember the post this thread opens with that you cant answer?

There is One YAHWEH... Jesus is identified as that YAHWEH also and the Holy spirit...

We? You can do what you like, but as for me and my house, yes, we will throw your twisting or perverting of Scripture and your false doctrines away! In fact, I flushed that CRAP long ago!

Nowhere in ANY translation of Scripture will you EVER find it said and taught "Jesus alone created the Heavens."

Yahshua is NEVER identified in Scripture as his and our FATHER Yahweh and 'the Holy spirit." Yahshua is specifically identified in ALL translations of Scripture as "A MAN" and as the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh. No, not as a "God-Man" or "God the Son."

Just because you are not satified with my answer to a question does not mean that I can not answer it!

benalvino:

Sorry mate it agrees with Colossians and many Verses... especially Hebrew 1:2... you can try all you can but you cant run from the rest...
when you go to colossians you will say the world was created through YAHWEH. still trying.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom{JESUS} he{YAHWEH} appointed heir of all things, and through whom{Jesus} also he{YAHWEH} made the universe.

am helping you for the last time on the verses. let me see how you will disfigure hebrew 1:2

Again, there are "OVER 100 SCRIPTURE verses" CLEARLY proclaiming that it was FATHER Yahweh "ALONE", BY HIMSELF" with "NO ONE BESIDE HIM." This most certainly beats the FEW Scripture verses that you twist or pervert in an attempt to make FATHER Yahweh out to be a liar by deceptively proclaiming that it was His SON who created.

Your presentation of Hebrews 1:2 only proves your "Jesus IS God!" doctrine to be false and that Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as a spokesman of FATHER Yahweh's word in so-called "Old Testament" times.

benalvino:

Ephesians 3:9
"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"

You and frosbel can start printing your own bible, because you have proven that you are here to confuse people and turn the bible up side down.

EPHESIANS 3:9
THREE ADDED WORDS
11/5/96

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things <<by Jesus Christ>>" (Eph 3:9, KJV).

Agreeing with this message are the following versions:

New King James Version
Holy Name Bible Amplified Version
William Tyndale Version
The Koster Version
The N.T. In Hebrew & English
Know Version Young's Literal Translation
The Geneva Bible (1602)
King James Version (1611-1996)

Bullinger's notes in the Companion Bible indicate the words "by Jesus Christ" are not in the Greek text. When we consult the NIV Interlinear Greek/English New Testament, we find the words "by Jesus Christ" are not in the text. The same is true of the Emphatic Diaglott and The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.

That these three words <<by Jesus Christ>> have been added to the text is evident, because this message disagrees with many Old Testament Scriptures. Yahweh is the Creator, not Yahshua the Messiah. Here are just three from more than 100 Scriptures which reveal that Yahweh is the Creator:

"My help comes from Yahweh, who made heaven and earth" (Ps. 121:1).

"By the word of Yahweh the heavens were made, and their hosts by the BREATH of his MOUTH. He gathered the waters of the sea as in a bottle; he put the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear Yahweh, let all the inhabitants of the earth stand in awe of him! For he SPOKE, and it came to be; he COMMANDED, and it stood forth" (Ps. 33:6-9, RSV).

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, he who formed you from the womb: "I am Yahweh, the Maker of all things, I ALONE stretched out the heavens, and founded the earth BY MYSELF" (Isa. 44:24, Berkeley Version).

It is evident then, that the message (in Eph. 3:9 in the versions noted above) in incorrect. Yahweh alone created the heavens and the earth and all things in them. No one was with him. No one helped him (Isa. 40:12-14; 44:6; 44:24; 45:4,6,12; 48:12,13; Mal. 2:10). The same Apostle Paul who wrote Ephesians 3:9 wrote as follows:

"For who has known the mind of Yahweh, or who has been his councilor?" (Rom. 11:34).

The implication is: No one was with him. No one helped him. This is exactly the message we have found in the writings of the ancient prophets.

Below is a list of version which do not contain the added words: that is, the false message that Yahweh created all things <<by Jesus Christ>>." The New Century Version states the message as clear as any, perhaps:

"And Yahweh gave me the work of telling all people about the plan of his secret, which has been hidden in him since the beginning of time. He is the One who created everything" (Eph. 3:9, New Century Version; Emphasis added).

Version Which Agree

American Revised Version
Beck Version
Twentieth Century N.T.
Emphasized Version
James Duncan Version (1836)
Revised Standard Version
The Bethel Bible
American Standard Version
Moffatt Translation
Bible In Basic English
New American Bible
Kingdom Interlinear Greek/English N.T.
Douay-Rheims Version
The Living Bible
The Bekelely Version
The New English Bible
The Fenton Version
The Estes Version
The Concordant Version
The Charles B. Williams Version
New Century Version
New International Version
Coneybeare Version
Phillips Version
Lamsa Version
NIV Interlinear Greek/English
Weymouth Version
New American Standard Version
Wuest Version
Good News Bible
The Jewish N.T.
Emphatic Diaglott (1863)
Cassirer Version of the N.T.
The New World Translation
The Jerusalem Bible
The Norlie Version
The John Wycliffe Version (1385)
The Barclay Version
The Charles K. Williams Version
SOURCE: http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/759235287/three-added-words

benalvino:

his answers will be: NO, only FATHER YAHWEH receives worship. lol

My answer would only be no to you, since you deceptively set yourself up to speak for another. I believe Yahshua is also worthy of "worship". Shows how much you have been paying attention!

hisblud: again i ask you, is it God is ONE as in numeral one or God is ONE as in a unity?

Yahweh is ONE as in numeral, since He clearly says that there is no mighty one ["god"] beside Him and that He knew not any and that it was He ALONE Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. FATHER Yahweh is the ultimate or supreme source of power and there is not other! Other mighty ones such as "false mighty ones or 'no mighty ones ['gods', idols]" have no power whatsoever. There are also righteous mighty ones who have power (authority), might, and strenght, but it is because of FATHER Yahweh that they receive this power. This is the case with FATHER Yahweh's SON, since Yahshua said that ALL power in heaven and in the earth had been given to him by His and our FATHER Yahweh.

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/761316151/elohim-one-or-more-than-one

benalvino:

i know you wont take it... you never take the point of the bible

No, you said "thats my point." It is your point that I will never take!

benalvino:

its funny how Jesus was just in the plans of YAHWEH yet partook in the creation of the universe just as the Holy spirit... so funny how he was just the plan yet he was in the Beginning and he was before all things.

It is only funny because of the false doctrines that you have combined with the righteous doctrines of FATHER Yahweh. Yahshua did not partake in the creation of the universe, did not exist in the beginning at the creation of the heavens and the earth and all things in them and he was not before all things.

hisblud: [url][/url] so according to your belief, Yashua was just an idea before He was born?

Yes, just as we did not pre-exist our birth, Yahshua also did not pre-exist his birth, since he has the same origin as all men. We were all in Father Yahweh's plan before we were born or came into existence.

benalvino:

all the honor and praise you give YAHWEH you Give Jesus equally thats my point

That is a point that I never take!