Frank4YAHWEH:

Yes, just as we did not pre-exist our birth, Yahshua also did not pre-exist his birth, since he has the same origin as all men. We were all in Father Yahweh's plan before we were born or came into existence.

stop lying arrogantly.

Frank4YAHWEH:
"FATHER Yahweh's SON is the FIRSTBORN of all creation, not FATHER Yahweh!

You're right! That's what I'm emphasing on, "FIRSTBORN of all creation" this phrase has ended all the argument about Yeshua... How can someone be called FIRSTBORN, if the person doesn't exist before others?

FATHER Yahweh is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM, not His SON Yahshua!

Through Yeshua!

Yahshua is the FIRSTBORN from the dead,

What do you mean by this?

Well, it it is obvious that I did not fail to make known that Yahshua is the firstborn and in turn it is quite obvious that you are a liar!

How can Yeshua claim the FIRSTBORN of all creation, if He doesn't exist before His birth?

FYI, your remarks concerning punctuation are moot, since there is no punctuation in Hebrew and Greek.

Ok I agree with you. But my Whom=Him is right because you ignored it?

By removing all the puntuations mark from verse 14-18, let's see how it goes by replacing 'Whom=Him & Who=He'

Colo 1:14-18 "In whom we have redemption through his blood even the forgiveness of sins "Who is the image of the invisible God the firstborn of every creature "For by whom were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created by whom and for whom "And who is before all things and by whom all things consist "And who is the head of the body the church who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead that in all things who might have the preeminence.

Where you got it wrong is when you're switching from 'Whom to Who' whereas Whom & Who are referring to the same person.

Who:- is used as the subject of a sentence or phrase, to denote who is doing something (like he or she). While!

Whom:- is used as the object of a verb, to denote who has something done to it (like him or her). While a preposition(at, by, for, in, with, etc.) often comes before "whom", Whom is in form of speaking in a Passive voice not Active voice.

I made mention about Matt 6:62 which says "What and if ye shall see the son of man(Yeshua) ascend up WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?" but you ignored it, why?

Shalom!

Emusan:

You're right! That's what I'm emphasing on, "FIRSTBORN of all creation" this phrase has ended all the argument about Yeshua... How can someone be called FIRSTBORN, if the person doesn't exist before others?



Through Yeshua!



What do you mean by this?




How can Yeshua claim the FIRSTBORN of all creation, if He doesn't exist before His birth?



Ok I agree with you. But my Whom=Him is right because you ignored it?

By removing all the puntuations mark from verse 14-18, let's see how it goes by replacing 'Whom=Him & Who=He'

Colo 1:14-18 "In whom we have redemption through his blood even the forgiveness of sins "Who is the image of the invisible God the firstborn of every creature "For by whom were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created by whom and for whom "And who is before all things and by whom all things consist "And who is the head of the body the church who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead that in all things who might have the preeminence.

Where you got it wrong is when you're switching from 'Whom to Who' whereas Whom & Who are referring to the same person.

Who:- is used as the subject of a sentence or phrase, to denote who is doing something (like he or she). While!

Whom:- is used as the object of a verb, to denote who has something done to it (like him or her). While a preposition(at, by, for, in, with, etc.) often comes before "whom", Whom is in form of speaking in a Passive voice not Active voice.

I made mention about Matt 6:62 which says "What and if ye shall see the son of man(Yeshua) ascend up WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?" but you ignored it, why?

Shalom!

you are wasting your time... he doesn't think the bible is correct... he thinks the bible should be interpreted the way he pleases... if the bible cant convince him we cant. he has the bible but he doesn't take anything written in it.

Frank4YAHWEH:

EPHESIANS 3:9
THREE ADDED WORDS
11/5/96

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things <<by Jesus Christ>>" (Eph 3:9, KJV).

Agreeing with this message are the following versions:

New King James Version
Holy Name Bible Amplified Version
William Tyndale Version
The Koster Version
The N.T. In Hebrew & English
Know Version Young's Literal Translation
The Geneva Bible (1602)
King James Version (1611-1996)

Bullinger's notes in the Companion Bible indicate the words "by Jesus Christ" are not in the Greek text. When we consult the NIV Interlinear Greek/English New Testament, we find the words "by Jesus Christ" are not in the text. The same is true of the Emphatic Diaglott and The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.

That these three words <<by Jesus Christ>> have been added to the text is evident, because this message disagrees with many Old Testament Scriptures. Yahweh is the Creator, not Yahshua the Messiah. Here are just three from more than 100 Scriptures which reveal that Yahweh is the Creator:

"My help comes from Yahweh, who made heaven and earth" (Ps. 121:1).

"By the word of Yahweh the heavens were made, and their hosts by the BREATH of his MOUTH. He gathered the waters of the sea as in a bottle; he put the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear Yahweh, let all the inhabitants of the earth stand in awe of him! For he SPOKE, and it came to be; he COMMANDED, and it stood forth" (Ps. 33:6-9, RSV).

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, he who formed you from the womb: "I am Yahweh, the Maker of all things, I ALONE stretched out the heavens, and founded the earth BY MYSELF" (Isa. 44:24, Berkeley Version).

It is evident then, that the message (in Eph. 3:9 in the versions noted above) in incorrect. Yahweh alone created the heavens and the earth and all things in them. No one was with him. No one helped him (Isa. 40:12-14; 44:6; 44:24; 45:4,6,12; 48:12,13; Mal. 2:10). The same Apostle Paul who wrote Ephesians 3:9 wrote as follows:

"For who has known the mind of Yahweh, or who has been his councilor?" (Rom. 11:34).

The implication is: No one was with him. No one helped him. This is exactly the message we have found in the writings of the ancient prophets.

Below is a list of version which do not contain the added words: that is, the false message that Yahweh created all things <<by Jesus Christ>>." The New Century Version states the message as clear as any, perhaps:

"And Yahweh gave me the work of telling all people about the plan of his secret, which has been hidden in him since the beginning of time. He is the One who created everything" (Eph. 3:9, New Century Version; Emphasis added).

Version Which Agree

American Revised Version
Beck Version
Twentieth Century N.T.
Emphasized Version
James Duncan Version (1836)
Revised Standard Version
The Bethel Bible
American Standard Version
Moffatt Translation
Bible In Basic English
New American Bible
Kingdom Interlinear Greek/English N.T.
Douay-Rheims Version
The Living Bible
The Bekelely Version
The New English Bible
The Fenton Version
The Estes Version
The Concordant Version
The Charles B. Williams Version
New Century Version
New International Version
Coneybeare Version
Phillips Version
Lamsa Version
NIV Interlinear Greek/English
Weymouth Version
New American Standard Version
Wuest Version
Good News Bible
The Jewish N.T.
Emphatic Diaglott (1863)
Cassirer Version of the N.T.
The New World Translation
The Jerusalem Bible
The Norlie Version
The John Wycliffe Version (1385)
The Barclay Version
The Charles K. Williams Version
SOURCE: http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/759235287/three-added-words

I agree with you that <<by Jesus Christ>> is not in the original. But on a second tot, why would paul claim that the mystery hidden, is that God created all things; when we know that in the Old testament, they already knew that YHWH created all things... how will that be mystery if i may ask?

Isaiah 45:12 - I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Genesis 1:1-31 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Isaiah 40:26 - Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these [things], that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that [he is] strong in power; not one faileth.

So how can the "mystery" be God created all things when of a fact, they [Old testament] already knew that except paul was revealing "something" deeper in the context?

hisblud: stop lying arrogantly.

Stop arrogantly calling me a liar when this is exactly what Scripture teaches!

Emusan:

You're right! That's what I'm emphasing on, "FIRSTBORN of all creation" this phrase has ended all the argument about Yeshua... How can someone be called FIRSTBORN, if the person doesn't exist before others?

Yahshua is the firstborn of all creation from the dead, not first born at the beginning of creation.

Emusan:
Through Yeshua!

No, All things were created "because of", "on account of" or "for" Yahshua, not "by" or "through" him. Nowhere in the so-called "New Testament" will you find Yahshua proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING!

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

Emusan:
What do you mean by this?

You mean to tell me you set yourself up as knowing the meaning of what Scripture says, but you do not know what Scripture means when it says that Yahshua is the firstborn from the dead? You may know the meaning of your "Church" doctrine, but you definately do not know the meaning of Scripture!

Emusan:
How can Yeshua claim the FIRSTBORN of all creation, if He doesn't exist before His birth?

One need not be a pre-existent being to be the firstborn of all creation to be born from the dead!

Emusan:
Ok I agree with you. But my Whom=Him is right because you ignored it?

By removing all the puntuations mark from verse 14-18, let's see how it goes by replacing 'Whom=Him & Who=He'

Colo 1:14-18 "In whom we have redemption through his blood even the forgiveness of sins "Who is the image of the invisible God the firstborn of every creature "For by whom were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created by whom and for whom "And who is before all things and by whom all things consist "And who is the head of the body the church who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead that in all things who might have the preeminence.

Where you got it wrong is when you're switching from 'Whom to Who' whereas Whom & Who are referring to the same person.

Who:- is used as the subject of a sentence or phrase, to denote who is doing something (like he or she). While!

Whom:- is used as the object of a verb, to denote who has something done to it (like him or her). While a preposition(at, by, for, in, with, etc.) often comes before "whom", Whom is in form of speaking in a Passive voice not Active voice.

Where you have it wrong is in who is our Creator. It is FATHER Yahweh, not His SON Yahshua. This passage speaks of FATHER Yahweh as our Creator, not His SON!

Emusan:
I made mention about Matt 6:62 which says "What and if ye shall see the son of man(Yeshua) ascend up WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?" but you ignored it, why?

No, I have not ignored this, since I have been asked about it many times here and have given answer to it.

Yahshua Came Down From Heaven
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/708052764/yahshua-came-down-from-heaven

benalvino:

you are wasting your time... he doesn't think the bible is correct... he thinks the bible should be interpreted the way he pleases... if the bible cant convince him we cant. he has the bible but he doesn't take anything written in it.

Both of you are wasting your time in presenting lies concerning what is actually taught in Scripture, but you instead continue to promote false "Church" doctrine.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Stop arrogantly calling me a liar when this is exactly what Scripture teaches!

In what way are you teaching what the bible Is saying?

According to you it was the plan of Yahweh for Satan to temp Adam, for humans to suffer for death and everything bad that is happening today... Because we all exist in the plans of Yahweh so are those like Satan Adam who bring mayhem into this world. How dare Yahweh have plans like Adam and Satan and carry out his plan so we could suffer. How dare Yahweh bring bad people into this world so he could destroy them because it was his plan?

Why can't Yahweh just cancel is plan and erase the bad people from his plan?

How dare Yahweh need a virgin birth why dont he just use Elijah or moses or Abraham to save us from sin since Jesus is just human as them?

Why does the word that was in the beginning have to become flesh for Jesus and it didn't become flesh for Abraham?

Despite all the sarcasm here... They are legit reasoning and question for your deceitful teaching of the holy scripture...

U arguing with emusan... We know firstborn of all creation is not thesame as firstborn from the dead... Keep sinking in deceit

benalvino:

In what way are you teaching what the bible Is saying?

According to you it was the plan of Yahweh for Satan to temp Adam, for humans to suffer for death and everything bad that is happening today... Because we all exist in the plans of Yahweh so are those like Satan Adam who bring mayhem into this world. How dare Yahweh have plans like Adam and Satan and carry out his plan so we could suffer. How dare Yahweh bring bad people into this world so he could destroy them because it was his plan?

Why can't Yahweh just cancel is plan and erase the bad people from his plan?

How dare Yahweh need a virgin birth why dont he just use Elijah or moses or Abraham to save us from sin since Jesus is just human as them?

Why does the word that was in the beginning have to become flesh for Jesus and it didn't become flesh for Abraham?

Despite all the sarcasm here... They are legit reasoning and question for your deceitful teaching of the holy scripture...

U arguing with emusan... We know firstborn of all creation is not thesame as firstborn from the dead... Keep sinking in deceit

Now you sound like Bill Maher on Religulous when he said "What is He waiting for!"

Yes, FIRSTBORN of all creation is the same reference when it is says that he is the FIRSTBORN from the dead!, just as it is in the same reference to his being the FIRSTfruit of the "FIRSTfruits of the dead and Yahshua's being the "FIRST and the last."

If you believed what the Scripture says, then you would agree with me!

Frank4YAHWEH:

Now you sound like Bill Maher on Religulous when he said "What is He waiting for!"

Yes, FIRSTBORN of all creation is the same reference when it is says that he is the FIRSTBORN from the dead!, just as it is in the same reference to his being the FIRSTfruit of the "FIRSTfruits of the dead and Yahshua's being the "FIRST and the last."

If you believed what the Scripture says, then you would agree with me!

You dont understand English then... Firstborn of all creation...
Means preeminence... It also goes with the he is before all things...
Key word is "of" and "creation"

Firstborn from the dead key word is "from" and "dead" it means he is the firstfruit from the dead...

You are utterly blind sir

[quote author=benalvino]

You dont understand English then... Firstborn of all creation...
Means preeminence... It also goes with the he is before all things...
Key word is "of" and "creation"

Firstborn of all creation means pre-eminence ? What arrant nonsense, lol.

Firstborn from the dead key word is "from" and "dead" it means he is the firstfruit from the dead...

You are utterly blind sir

A blind MAN calling another 'BLIND' , wonders will never end with IGNORANCE.

The Brain God gave us is not a decorative component of our make-up, it is there for a purpose, to be used for reasoning, thinking and making informed decisions based on fact.

The Trinitairans will always hide around the 'mystery' and 'spirit' words, which really is a veiled admittance on their part that the Trinity dogma is a nonsensical and illogical 'mystery' , which can only be explained by highly educated scholars , Phd bible students or confused adherents.

"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles." - Romans 1;18-21

The above scripture is a serious indictment against Trinitarians and all those who try to twist the person of GOD into Pagan myths and fables.

1. God has made it plain to all creatures, not just Christians.
2. His divine nature has clearly been seen
3. These polytheists remake God into a Pagan image , " to look like a mortal human being ".


Note, God referred to exclusively as immortal as opposed to Man who is referred to as Mortal.


Any suggestion that remakes God into a mortal being is blasphemy , and I advice caution in your pushing of this Pagan illogic too far, and possibly to your destruction.

frosbel: Firstborn of all creation means pre-eminence ? What arrant nonsense, lol.

yeah arrant non sense to you as long as it makes sense it is non sense...
you want to follow your partner in deceit to translate firstborn of all creation as firstborn from the dead? lmao i guess even if its arrant nonsense as you say... it still make better sense to anything you will try to cook out of that verse... you want to bet?

frosbel: A blind MAN calling another 'BLIND' , wonders will never end with IGNORANCE.

Ok i am blind as you may say... but i sure can see what the verses says and not twist it...
to help you with your ignorance i will let the bible define what firstborn of all creation mean...
Psalm 89:27 "I also shall make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth."

let dictionary help you now
pre·em·i·nent or pre-em·i·nent (pr-m-nnt)
adj.
Superior to or notable above all others; outstanding. See Synonyms at dominant, noted.
if david was God's firstborn, is he the firstborn from the dead?
or is he the elder brother to jesus?
if so how can jesus be the first born?
so tell me for what reason other than preeminence that david is God's firstborn?
if he is the last child of his parents how is he the firstborn?

Ephraim is also God's firstborn...
so what is he firstborn for? we know he is not the firstborn in his family...

I know you will run away without answering this question... its your style.

frosbel: Colossians 1:16

6. An important figure of speech in Colossians 1:16 is called “encircling.” Bullinger notes that the Greeks called this figure of speech epanadiplosis, while the Romans labeled it inclusio (p. 245), and he gives several pages of examples from the Bible to document the figure. He writes: “When this figure is used, it marks what is said as being completed in one complete circle…giving completeness of the statement that is made.” With that in mind, note that the phrase “all things were created” occurs at the beginning and end of the verse, encircling the list of created things: “For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.” The things that are “created” are not rocks, trees, birds and animals, because those things were created by God. These things, “thrones, powers, rulers and authorities,” are the powers and positions that were needed by Christ to run his Church, and were created by him for that purpose. The figure of speech known as “encircling” helps us to identify the proper context of “all things”—that it is the narrower sense of the word “all,” and refers to the things needed to administer the Church.

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/colossians-1-15-20

^^^^^^this is your silly lol...

[quote author=benalvino]
yeah arrant non sense to you as long as it makes sense it is non sense...
you want to follow your partner in deceit to translate firstborn of all creation as firstborn from the dead? lmao i guess even if its arrant nonsense as you say... it still make better sense to anything you will try to cook out of that verse... you want to bet?

Young MAN , you are getting yourself all muddled up.

Firstborn of creation means that the Firstborn has a beginning, duh !!!

Read the meaning of this concept in the true Judaic sense of the word - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firstborn_(Judaism) , and stop relying on your cooked up illogical meaning derived from I don't know where.

Ok i am blind as you may say... but i sure can see what the verses says and not twist it...
to help you with your ignorance i will let the bible define what firstborn of all creation mean...
Psalm 89:27 "I also shall make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth."

And , he begat his firstborn on a certain day , no :

"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee".- Psalm 2:7

So the Son was begotten on a specific day which throws out your false concept of trying to tie this into the concept of pre-eminence.

let dictionary help you now
pre·em·i·nent or pre-em·i·nent (pr-m-nnt)
adj.
Superior to or notable above all others; outstanding. See Synonyms at dominant, noted.

You should be looking for the meaning of first born not pre-eminence, lol = confusion galore.

if david was God's firstborn, is he the firstborn from the dead?

Obviously David died, so he cannot be the firstborn from the dead.

or is he the elder brother to jesus?

Elder brother to Jesus who was born , let me see, hundreds of years later, lol. He was the ancestor of Jesus is a better use of English Language to depict this relationship.

Jesus Christ is the offspring and root of David.

if so how can jesus be the first born?
so tell me for what reason other than preeminence that david is God's firstborn?
if he is the last child of his parents how is he the firstborn?

Because God chooses whoever he will to be the firstborn, it is his doing.

[quote]Ephraim is also God's firstborn...
so what is he firstborn for? we know he is not the firstborn in his family...

I know you will run away without answering this question... its your style.

You are surely confused and making no sense at all, what is your point, how does it relate to the subject at hand, you need to study more and stop running about the whole place throwing random verses into the air , hoping they will make sense.

^^^ so God have 3 firstborn? hahahaaha frosbel go kill me for laugh o...
so who is the first fristborn ?
why will God choose david to be his firstborn when other angels was before david? lmao.
did God begat david?

ahahahaha you will never learn i think...

frosbel: And , he begat his firstborn on a certain day , no :

"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee".- Psalm 2:7

So the Son was begotten on a specific day which throws out your false concept of trying to tie this into the concept of pre-eminence.

^^^the above makes no sense

so are you saying david was begotten? and yet the bible calls Jesus the only begotten son? oboy!!! hahahahahahaha another twisting. i cant stop laughing.
psalms 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

out of all the question how many did you try to answer? just 1.

benalvino: ^^^ so God have 3 firstborn? hahahaaha frosbel go kill me for laugh o...
so who is the first fristborn ?
why will God choose david to be his firstborn when other angels was before david? lmao.
did God begat david?

ahahahaha you will never learn i think...



^^^the above makes no sense

so are you saying david was begotten? and yet the bible calls Jesus the only begotten son? oboy!!! hahahahahahaha another twisting. i cant stop laughing.
psalms 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

out of all the question how many did you try to answer? just 1.

Don't mind frosbel,he will keep posting articles that he himself will not sit down and read so far they don't lend credence or support to the trinity doctrine,it's ok by him. The article he told us to go through on the other thread actually talked about preeminence of Christ but with a twist that the younger son can take the role of the firstborn according to Jewish customs. They said since Adam was the first born he relinquish that role to Jesus because of defilement(sin), just like Ephraim went to his father's couch to defile it hence relinquishing his role as firstborn son.

Frank4YAHWEH:
Yahshua is the firstborn of all creation from the dead, not first born at the beginning of creation.

He is the first born of All creations.

No, All things were created "because of", on account of' or "for" Yahshua, not "by' and "through" him.

"The worlds was framed by the word of God" can anyone seperate your word from you?

Nowhere in the so-called "New Testament" will you find Yahshua proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING!

He didn't, even when He said before Abraham was, I am. They want to kill Him.

You mean to tell me you set yourself up as knowing the meaning of what Scripture says, but you do not know what Scripture means when it says that Yahshua is the firstborn from the dead? You may know the meaning of your "Church" doctrine, but you definately do not know the meaning of Scripture!

What I need has been explained. Yeshua is the firstborn from dead! Is it He was the first person to died and go to heaven or resurrected?

One need not be a pre-existent being to be the firstborn of all creation to be born from the dead!

Answer my question above!

Where you have it wrong is in who is our Creator.

See @frank oooo oh my God, I simply explained how you twisted the above verse yet you're claiming who is the creator? Yes God is the creator....I will ask you again according to that verse 14" In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"---who His blood was sheld for our sins, Yahweh or Yeshua?.... Know that the person you chose is the rest of the verse was talking about......

It is FATHER Yahweh, not His SON Yahshua. This passage speaks of FATHER Yahweh as our Creator, not His SON!

Is the Father Yahweh's blood was sheld for man's sins?

No, I have not ignored this, since I have been asked about it many times here and have given answer to it.

Yahshua Came Down From Heaven
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/708052764/yahshua-came-down-from-heaven

I have gone through your site but what you're really talking about is "coming down from heaven as a phrase or figure of speech" which is totally different from what Jesus said in John 6:62 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?"

NOTICE the phrase "...Where he was before.." (not where He came from) why can't you just open your heart once to accept the truth?

Many people who doesn't read their Bible would have been misleaded through your site.

God help us all!

Emusan:

He is the first born of All creations.

Yes, he is the first born of all creation from the dead!

Emusan:
"The worlds was framed by the word of God" can anyone seperate your word from you?

And your reason for asking this?

Emusan:
He didn't, even when He said before Abraham was, I am. They want to kill Him.

When Yahshua said "Before Abraham was, I am.", he was speaking of his pre-eminence to Abraham. He was answering their question "Are you greater than our father Abraham." They most certainly did not like his answer in making it known that he was greater than Abraham!

Emusan:
What I need has been explained. Yeshua is the firstborn from dead! Is it He was the first person to died and go to heaven or resurrected?

Answer my question above!

This is speaking specifically of him being the first resurrected from the dead, since this is what the word 'resurrection' means, being brought back from being dead. FATHER Yahweh was not brought back from being dead, but it was His SON whom FATHER Yahweh redeemed from being dead.

Emusan:
See @frank oooo oh my God, I simply explained how you twisted the above verse yet you're claiming who is the creator? Yes God is the creator....I will ask you again according to that verse 14" In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"---who His blood was sheld for our sins, Yahweh or Yeshua?.... Know that the person you chose is the rest of the verse was talking about......

Is the Father Yahweh's blood was sheld for man's sins?

No!

Emusan:
I have gone through your site but what you're really talking about is "coming down from heaven as a phrase or figure of speech" which is totally different from what Jesus said in John 6:62 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?"

NOTICE the phrase "...Where he was before.." (not where He came from) why can't you just open your heart once to accept the truth?

Many people who doesn't read their Bible would have been misleaded through your site.

God help us all!

Yahshua also spoke in a figurative sense and in parables (illustrations).

No, people are directed to the truth of what Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS in that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of FATHER Yahweh and not FATHER Yahweh ["God"] as many deceptively teach.

Frank4YAHWEH:
Yes, he is!

I agreed.

And your reason for asking this?

That Jesus is the power of God!

This is speaking specifically of him being the first resurrected from the dead, since this is what the word 'resurrection' means, being brought back from being dead. FATHER Yahweh was not brought back from being dead, but it was His SON whom FATHER Yahweh redeemed from being dead.

Ok! You're right.

No!

No as what, Yehweh or Yeshua?
Remember whosoever you chose is the rest of the verse is talking about, According to Whom=Him & Who=He rules as explained above by this poster

Yahshua also spoke in a figrative sense and in parables (illustrations).

This's the problem you people have, does that verse look like figurative statement or direct statement?

Very soon I know the whole words of Yewhew and Yeshua will be turn to a figurative speech by people who fails to open their heart to the truth.

You don't have any objection to the verse rather you resolted to figurative.

No, people are directed to the truth of what Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS in that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of FATHER Yahweh and not FATHER Yahweh ["God"] as many deceptively teach.

Just give me a concise answer to my question, of that verse 14, is the blood of Yehweh or Yeshua was sheld for our sins?

God with Us.....Emmanuel....Yeshua

benalvino: ^^^ so God have 3 firstborn? hahahaaha frosbel go kill me for laugh o...
so who is the first fristborn ?
why will God choose david to be his firstborn when other angels was before david? lmao.

Angels


what has the MAN race got to do with the ANGEL race ?

did God begat david?

No.

ahahahaha you will never learn i think...

If learning means believing in the hogwash you call monotheism which is actually polytheism, then I am happy to be where I am.

so are you saying david was begotten? and yet the bible calls Jesus the only begotten son? oboy!!! hahahahahahaha another twisting. i cant stop laughing.

Never said David was begotten.

psalms 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

out of all the question how many did you try to answer? just 1.

And the point here is.




Try as you may, your pagan myth will not stick.

^^ angels are the sons of God too... they are before David...

yes because you quote a verse that have nothing to do with the question i ask you... i thought you meant david was begotten... so the psalms 2:7 you quoted was irrelevant at last.
I quoted psalms 2:10 just to clear your mind that it wasn't David that was begotten... just in case it was what you are thinking...

that is why i quote that verse saying it doesn't make sense...

so the questions are still on you...

if david was God's firstborn, is he the firstborn from the dead?
or is he the elder brother to jesus?
if so how can jesus be the first born?
so tell me for what reason other than preeminence that david is God's firstborn?
if he is the last child of his parents how is he the firstborn?


you respond to the above is God choose who is his firstborn. and this respond doesn't answer the questions correctly...

so God choose 3 firstborn? who is the first firstborn lmao... see how your reasoning is giving you silly questions now?

Emusan:

I agreed.

No you don't! I agree with his being the firstborn of all creation in that he was the firstborn from the dead. You do not!

Emusan:
Ok! You're right.

And your wrong! You actually agree with all that I said as follows?:

"This is speaking specifically of him being the first resurrected from the dead, since this is what the word 'resurrection' means, being brought back from being dead. FATHER Yahweh was not brought back from being dead, but it was His SON whom FATHER Yahweh redeemed from being dead."

Emusan:
No as what, Yehweh or Yeshua?
Remember whosoever you chose is the rest of the verse is talking about, According to Whom=Him & Who=He rules as explained above by this poster

You do not like my answer? Scripture as a whole will decide for me who the rest of this verse is speaking of, not you!

Emusan:
This's the problem you people have, does that verse look like figurative statement or direct statement?

Very soon I know the whole words of Yewhew and Yeshua will be turn to a figurative speech by people who fails to open their heart to the truth.

You don't have any objection to the verse rather you resolted to figurative.

Yes, looks like a figureative statement to me!

I object to your false presentation of this verse!

Emusan:
Just give me a concise answer to my question, of that verse 14, is the blood of Yehweh or Yeshua was sheld for our sins?

Your question does not even make sense, so how am I supposed to give a consise answer to it?

Frank4YAHWEH:
No you don't! I agree with his being the firstborn of all creation in that he was the firstborn from the dead. You do not!


And your wrong! You actually agree with all that I said as follows?:

"This is speaking specifically of him being the first resurrected from the dead, since this is what the word 'resurrection' means, being brought back from being dead. FATHER Yahweh was not brought back from being dead, but it was His SON whom FATHER Yahweh redeemed from being dead."


You do not like my answer? Scripture as a whole will decide for me who the rest of this verse is speaking of, not you!


Yes, looks like a figureative statement to me!

I object to your false presentation of this verse!



Your question does not even make sense, so how am I supposed to give a consise answer to it?

Are you crazy?

How can you say first born of all creation means first born from the dead?

Why didn't the bible just say he is the firstborn from the end then?

What kind of deceit is this?

Its like saying you agree that a person that is alive and singing talking to you means he is dead.

People will be wasting time with you seriously. You and frosbel should not explain the bible. Because deceit is what comes out of it when you do. Gosh

Frank4YAHWEH:
No you don't! I agree with his being the firstborn of all creation in that he was the firstborn from the dead. You do not!

Being the firstborn of all creation in that because He was the firstborn from dead, does it make any sense to you? Why Jesus is the beginning and the end?

And your wrong! You actually agree with all that I said as follows?:
"This is speaking specifically of him being the first resurrected from the dead, since this is what the word 'resurrection' means, being brought back from being dead. FATHER Yahweh was not brought back from being dead, but it was His SON whom FATHER Yahweh redeemed from being dead."

Well I said I agree because you said Father Yehweh was not the one His blood was sheld but His Son which is the basic of asking you that question.

You do not like my answer?

I agreed as par the above.

Scripture as a whole will decide for me who the rest of this verse is speaking of, not you!

Then how was you taught to be using BASIC ENGLISH in your passage? because you've neglected the principles of English to made this statement. Stop deluding yourself by calling dog a monkey.

Yes, looks like a figureative statement to me!

Now it is "it looks like" Lol....
Just look at the way you yourself was twisting the scriptures. Like I said the whole words of Yeshua will soon be turn to figurative by @Frank.

I object to your false presentation of this verse!

Let me help you again in that my previous analyses,

Colo 1:14-18 "In whom we have redemption through his blood even the forgiveness of sins "Who is the image of the invisible God the firstborn of every creature "For by whom were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created by whom and for whom "And who is before all things and by whom all things consist "And who is the head of the body the church who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead that in all things who might have the preeminence.

Active Voice:- who/he/Frank threw the ball.

Passive voice:- The ball was thrown by whom/him/Frank.
So the whole verses above was directed to whom/Him/Yeshua

Your question does not even make sense, so how am I supposed to give a consise answer to it?

With my expression above I know the question will make non sense to you because you just don't want to accept the truth.

Sorry to say this but the Trinity doctrine makes otherwise intelligent people reason like 'imbeciles', no insult intended

frosbel: Sorry to say this but the Trinity doctrine makes otherwise intelligent people reason like 'imbeciles', no insult intended

oh please... the Jehovah's witness dont believe in it... but they know jesus exist before he came to earth... you are hiding or dodging by bringing the trinity into this... this is about if Jesus exist before he came to earth. so far you have tried and twist the bible and failed badly... funny how you and frank differ in colossians 1:16... according to you the all things was not all things... it was things like thrones authority etc "refers to the things needed to administer the Church."

this is from your post... and i call you deceiver again.
the authority that was in even and earth before Jesus come was what? the throne David sat on was what? when did Jesus created those things? how can David be king when Jesus hasn't been born to create authority?

before Jesus was born isaiah speaks of the government " and the government shall be upon his shoulder" if there is no authority which government is isaiah talking about then? look at your stupid post again and

frosbel: Colossians 1:16

6. An important figure of speech in Colossians 1:16 is called “encircling.” Bullinger notes that the Greeks called this figure of speech epanadiplosis, while the Romans labeled it inclusio (p. 245), and he gives several pages of examples from the Bible to document the figure. He writes: “When this figure is used, it marks what is said as being completed in one complete circle…giving completeness of the statement that is made.” With that in mind, note that the phrase “all things were created” occurs at the beginning and end of the verse, encircling the list of created things: “For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.” The things that are “created” are not rocks, trees, birds and animals, because those things were created by God. These things, “thrones, powers, rulers and authorities,” are the powers and positions that were needed by Christ to run his Church, and were created by him for that purpose. The figure of speech known as “encircling” helps us to identify the proper context of “all things”—that it is the narrower sense of the word “all,” and refers to the things needed to administer the Church.

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/colossians-1-15-20

^^ compare with your partner frank who says Jesus never created anything that it was only YAHWEH that created all the thrones and bla bla bla...

both of you are not even close to what you believe concerning colossians... you just go to the internet pick any useless article that says Jesus did not preexist... even if same article says YAHWEH doesn't exist... you dont care as long as it says Jesus did not preexist.

benalvino:

oh please... the Jehovah's witness dont believe in it... but they know jesus exist before he came to earth... you are hiding or dodging by bringing the trinity into this... this is about if Jesus exist before he came to earth. so far you have tried and twist the bible and failed badly... funny how you and frank differ in colossians 1:16... according to you the all things was not all things... it was things like thrones authority etc "refers to the things needed to administer the Church."

this is from your post... and i call you deceiver again.
the authority that was in even and earth before Jesus come was what? the throne David sat on was what? when did Jesus created those things? how can David be king when Jesus hasn't been born to create authority?

before Jesus was born isaiah speaks of the government " and the government shall be upon his shoulder" if there is no authority which government is isaiah talking about then? look at your stupid post again and



^^ compare with your partner frank who says Jesus never created anything that it was only YAHWEH that created all the thrones and bla bla bla...

both of you are not even close to what you believe concerning colossians... you just go to the internet pick any useless article that says Jesus did not preexist... even if same article says YAHWEH doesn't exist... you dont care as long as it says Jesus did not preexist.

What a liar!

Isee that FATHER Yahweh "ALONE", "BY HIMSELF", with "NO ONE BESIDE HIM" is nothing but "bla bla bla..." to you!

frosbel: Sorry to say this but the Trinity doctrine makes otherwise intelligent people reason like 'imbeciles', no insult intended

I'm not sorry to say it! Insult intended!

Frank4YAHWEH:

What a liar!

Isee that FATHER Yahweh "ALONE", "BY HIMSELF", with "NO ONE BESIDE HIM" is nothing but "bla bla bla..." to you!

Can you point out the lie?

Its like am talking to an idol... So no point continuing with you anyway. Point have been made... Every one know you are confused person except frosbel

I didn't know how I skipped this your statement, I just sighted it now.

Frank4YAHWEH:
When Yahshua said "Before Abraham was, I am.", he was speaking of his pre-eminence to Abraham.

This is what I call pure lies. Hmmm!

He was answering their question "Are you greater than our father Abraham." They most certainly did not like his answer in making it known that he was greater than Abraham!

See what cause the question and His reply to their question;

John 8:51-59 "51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Now! Key point from 51-59:

*Jesus said no death for anyone who kept is words.
*They said Jesus hath devil
*Are you greater than our Father Abraham?

Jesus answers is very clear here:

from verse 56-58, NOTE: added word in black color

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced (rejoiced-past tense) to see my day: and he saw it, (saw-past tense) and was glad. The past tense indicates that the action was happened in the past not a FUTURE tense. This action might happen either when Abraham was on earth or after his death.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

How will Abraham saw Jesus' day when Jesus didn't pre-exist His brith?

If Abraham was born before Jesus, why Jesus make such statement "before Abraham was, I Am"?

Jesus Himself asked people question about His pre-existence, John 6:62 "...see the son of man ascend to where He was before?"

John the baptist also testify of His pre-existence in two different occasions: John 1:15 "John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me."

Also; John 1:30 "This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me."

Did John also speak in figurative here? He made it clear that Jesus was before him but John was born before Jesus.

Shalom!

-

benalvino:

Can you point out the lie?

Its like am talking to an idol... So no point continuing with you anyway. Point have been made... Every one know you are confused person except frosbel

frosbel will agree wit each and everything as long as it would disagree with the blessed Deity of Yahshua.