benalvino:

flipflop... see what you said before...

I have always believed that the Messiah did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being! No flip-flop here! It seems that you just enjoy twisting and perverting the words of others who oppose your false doctrine just as you do the Scripture (FATHER Yahweh's inspired prophetic word) to your own destruction!

.

Emusan:

Imagine maybe he has forgotten he made that statement By=through.

He even capitalised the combine words FIRSTBORN but failed to ask himself, is YAHWEH or Yeshua the firstborn? because Who infront of verse 15 indicates that the person who is the image of invisible God seperated by a coma(,) is also the FIRSTBORN.

Following is exactly what I had said previously:

"FATHER Yahweh's SON is the FIRSTBORN of all creation, not FATHER Yahweh!

FATHER Yahweh is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM, not His SON Yahshua!

Yahshua is the FIRSTBORN from the dead, not his and our FATHER Yahweh."

Well, it it is obvious that I did not fail to make known that Yahshua is the firstborn and in turn it is quite obvious that you are a liar!

FYI, your remarks concerning punctuation are moot, since there is no punctuation in Hebrew and Greek.

benalvino:

he has gotten to a dead end, instead of him to turn around he is trying to pass through the walls. i dont even think a nursery school child will accept what he says

Even a simpleton nursery school child would not accept the the belief that one can be their own father and one can be their own son! That would make you something less than a simpleton nursery school child!

benalvino:
So should you praise and honor the son equally?

All depends on what you mean by saying 'equally'? Now, when it comes to honoring the SON equally as if he were his own FATHER, no, this is not what is meant!

Frank4YAHWEH:

All depends on what you mean by saying 'equally'? Now, when it comes to honoring the SON equally as if he were his own FATHER, no, this is not what is meant!

I mean equal same amount

benalvino:

I mean equal same amount

So, you believe that YOUR "God" and that YOUR "Jesus" are the same amount, right?

Frank4YAHWEH:

So, you believe that YOUR "God" and that YOUR "Jesus" are the same amount, right?

you ask

Frank4YAHWEH:
All depends on what you mean by saying 'equally'?

i said equal, same amount... to go further same quantity.

benalvino:

you ask


i said equal, same amount... to go further same quantity.

Yahshua said the FATHER was GREATER than he, so they can not be equal in that sense.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Yahshua said the FATHER was GREATER than he, so they can not be equal in that sense.

all the honor and praise you give YAHWEH you Give Jesus equally thats my point

benalvino:

all the honor and praise you give YAHWEH you Give Jesus equally thats my point

That is a point that I never take!

Frank4YAHWEH:

That is a point that I never take!

i know you wont take it... you never take the point of the bible

frosbel:

make a fool of himself ? why, for saying that God is one , while you worship a Pagan trinity made up of 3 gods ? You are a ploytheist , no ?

again i ask you, is it God is ONE as in numeral one or God is ONE as in a unity?

benalvino:
So should you praise and honor the son equally?

frank answer this

Frank4YAHWEH:

I never said that you could not! You asked about honor and praise to the FATHER specifically, not the SON!

ben asked should we worship Yashua equally?

hisblud: ben asked should we worship Yashua equally?

his answers will be: NO, only FATHER YAHWEH receives worship. lol

Frank4YAHWEH:

Your belief is that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an "actual being" opposed to my belief that Yahshua only pre-existed in FATHER Yahweh's plan as the promised coming Messiah. The true worshippers of FATHER Yahweh and the prophets of old did not believe that the Messiah presently existed, but were in waiting for the Messaih to be raised up through the seed of Dawid. The COMING of the Messaih has always beenj a future event to the true worshippers of FATHER Yahweh.

[url][/url] so according to your belief, Yashua was just an idea before He was born?

hisblud: [url][/url] so according to your belief, Yashua was just an idea before He was born?

its funny how Jesus was just in the plans of YAHWEH yet partook in the creation of the universe just as the Holy spirit... so funny how he was just the plan yet he was in the Beginning and he was before all things.

hisblud: [url][/url] so according to your belief, Yashua was just an idea before He was born?

Yes, just as we did not pre-exist our birth, Yahshua also did not pre-exist his birth, since he has the same origin as all men. We were all in Father Yahweh's plan before we were born or came into existence.

benalvino:

its funny how Jesus was just in the plans of YAHWEH yet partook in the creation of the universe just as the Holy spirit... so funny how he was just the plan yet he was in the Beginning and he was before all things.

It is only funny because of the false doctrines that you have combined with the righteous doctrines of FATHER Yahweh. Yahshua did not partake in the creation of the universe, did not exist in the beginning at the creation of the heavens and the earth and all things in them and he was not before all things.

benalvino:

i know you wont take it... you never take the point of the bible

No, you said "thats my point." It is your point that I will never take!

hisblud: again i ask you, is it God is ONE as in numeral one or God is ONE as in a unity?

Yahweh is ONE as in numeral, since He clearly says that there is no mighty one ["god"] beside Him and that He knew not any and that it was He ALONE Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. FATHER Yahweh is the ultimate or supreme source of power and there is not other! Other mighty ones such as "false mighty ones or 'no mighty ones ['gods', idols]" have no power whatsoever. There are also righteous mighty ones who have power (authority), might, and strenght, but it is because of FATHER Yahweh that they receive this power. This is the case with FATHER Yahweh's SON, since Yahshua said that ALL power in heaven and in the earth had been given to him by His and our FATHER Yahweh.

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/761316151/elohim-one-or-more-than-one

benalvino:

his answers will be: NO, only FATHER YAHWEH receives worship. lol

My answer would only be no to you, since you deceptively set yourself up to speak for another. I believe Yahshua is also worthy of "worship". Shows how much you have been paying attention!

Frank4YAHWEH:

It is only funny because of the false doctrines that you have combined with the righteous doctrines of FATHER Yahweh. Yahshua did not partake in the creation of the universe, did not exist in the beginning at the creation of the heavens and the earth and all things in them and he was not before all things.

Ephesians 3:9
"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"

You and frosbel can start printing your own bible, because you have proven that you are here to confuse people and turn the bible up side down.

benalvino:

Ephesians 3:9
"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"

You and frosbel can start printing your own bible, because you have proven that you are here to confuse people and turn the bible up side down.

EPHESIANS 3:9
THREE ADDED WORDS
11/5/96

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things <<by Jesus Christ>>" (Eph 3:9, KJV).

Agreeing with this message are the following versions:

New King James Version
Holy Name Bible Amplified Version
William Tyndale Version
The Koster Version
The N.T. In Hebrew & English
Know Version Young's Literal Translation
The Geneva Bible (1602)
King James Version (1611-1996)

Bullinger's notes in the Companion Bible indicate the words "by Jesus Christ" are not in the Greek text. When we consult the NIV Interlinear Greek/English New Testament, we find the words "by Jesus Christ" are not in the text. The same is true of the Emphatic Diaglott and The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.

That these three words <<by Jesus Christ>> have been added to the text is evident, because this message disagrees with many Old Testament Scriptures. Yahweh is the Creator, not Yahshua the Messiah. Here are just three from more than 100 Scriptures which reveal that Yahweh is the Creator:

"My help comes from Yahweh, who made heaven and earth" (Ps. 121:1).

"By the word of Yahweh the heavens were made, and their hosts by the BREATH of his MOUTH. He gathered the waters of the sea as in a bottle; he put the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear Yahweh, let all the inhabitants of the earth stand in awe of him! For he SPOKE, and it came to be; he COMMANDED, and it stood forth" (Ps. 33:6-9, RSV).

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, he who formed you from the womb: "I am Yahweh, the Maker of all things, I ALONE stretched out the heavens, and founded the earth BY MYSELF" (Isa. 44:24, Berkeley Version).

It is evident then, that the message (in Eph. 3:9 in the versions noted above) in incorrect. Yahweh alone created the heavens and the earth and all things in them. No one was with him. No one helped him (Isa. 40:12-14; 44:6; 44:24; 45:4,6,12; 48:12,13; Mal. 2:10). The same Apostle Paul who wrote Ephesians 3:9 wrote as follows:

"For who has known the mind of Yahweh, or who has been his councilor?" (Rom. 11:34).

The implication is: No one was with him. No one helped him. This is exactly the message we have found in the writings of the ancient prophets.

Below is a list of version which do not contain the added words: that is, the false message that Yahweh created all things <<by Jesus Christ>>." The New Century Version states the message as clear as any, perhaps:

"And Yahweh gave me the work of telling all people about the plan of his secret, which has been hidden in him since the beginning of time. He is the One who created everything" (Eph. 3:9, New Century Version; Emphasis added).

Version Which Agree

American Revised Version
Beck Version
Twentieth Century N.T.
Emphasized Version
James Duncan Version (1836)
Revised Standard Version
The Bethel Bible
American Standard Version
Moffatt Translation
Bible In Basic English
New American Bible
Kingdom Interlinear Greek/English N.T.
Douay-Rheims Version
The Living Bible
The Bekelely Version
The New English Bible
The Fenton Version
The Estes Version
The Concordant Version
The Charles B. Williams Version
New Century Version
New International Version
Coneybeare Version
Phillips Version
Lamsa Version
NIV Interlinear Greek/English
Weymouth Version
New American Standard Version
Wuest Version
Good News Bible
The Jewish N.T.
Emphatic Diaglott (1863)
Cassirer Version of the N.T.
The New World Translation
The Jerusalem Bible
The Norlie Version
The John Wycliffe Version (1385)
The Barclay Version
The Charles K. Williams Version
SOURCE: http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/759235287/three-added-words

Frank4YAHWEH:

EPHESIANS 3:9
THREE ADDED WORDS
11/5/96

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things <<by Jesus Christ>>" (Eph 3:9, KJV).

Agreeing with this message are the following versions:

New King James Version
Holy Name Bible Amplified Version
William Tyndale Version
The Koster Version
The N.T. In Hebrew & English
Know Version Young's Literal Translation
The Geneva Bible (1602)
King James Version (1611-1996)

Bullinger's notes in the Companion Bible indicate the words "by Jesus Christ" are not in the Greek text. When we consult the NIV Interlinear Greek/English New Testament, we find the words "by Jesus Christ" are not in the text. The same is true of the Emphatic Diaglott and The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.

That these three words <<by Jesus Christ>> have been added to the text is evident, because this message disagrees with many Old Testament Scriptures. Yahweh is the Creator, not Yahshua the Messiah. Here are just three from more than 100 Scriptures which reveal that Yahweh is the Creator:

"My help comes from Yahweh, who made heaven and earth" (Ps. 121:1).

"By the word of Yahweh the heavens were made, and their hosts by the BREATH of his MOUTH. He gathered the waters of the sea as in a bottle; he put the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear Yahweh, let all the inhabitants of the earth stand in awe of him! For he SPOKE, and it came to be; he COMMANDED, and it stood forth" (Ps. 33:6-9, RSV).

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, he who formed you from the womb: "I am Yahweh, the Maker of all things, I ALONE stretched out the heavens, and founded the earth BY MYSELF" (Isa. 44:24, Berkeley Version).

It is evident then, that the message (in Eph. 3:9 in the versions noted above) in incorrect. Yahweh alone created the heavens and the earth and all things in them. No one was with him. No one helped him (Isa. 40:12-14; 44:6; 44:24; 45:4,6,12; 48:12,13; Mal. 2:10). The same Apostle Paul who wrote Ephesians 3:9 wrote as follows:

"For who has known the mind of Yahweh, or who has been his councilor?" (Rom. 11:34).

The implication is: No one was with him. No one helped him. This is exactly the message we have found in the writings of the ancient prophets.

Below is a list of version which do not contain the added words: that is, the false message that Yahweh created all things <<by Jesus Christ>>." The New Century Version states the message as clear as any, perhaps:

"And Yahweh gave me the work of telling all people about the plan of his secret, which has been hidden in him since the beginning of time. He is the One who created everything" (Eph. 3:9, New Century Version; Emphasis added).

Version Which Agree

American Revised Version
Beck Version
Twentieth Century N.T.
Emphasized Version
James Duncan Version (1836)
Revised Standard Version
The Bethel Bible
American Standard Version
Moffatt Translation
Bible In Basic English
New American Bible
Kingdom Interlinear Greek/English N.T.
Douay-Rheims Version
The Living Bible
The Bekelely Version
The New English Bible
The Fenton Version
The Estes Version
The Concordant Version
The Charles B. Williams Version
New Century Version
New International Version
Coneybeare Version
Phillips Version
Lamsa Version
NIV Interlinear Greek/English
Weymouth Version
New American Standard Version
Wuest Version
Good News Bible
The Jewish N.T.
Emphatic Diaglott (1863)
Cassirer Version of the N.T.
The New World Translation
The Jerusalem Bible
The Norlie Version
The John Wycliffe Version (1385)
The Barclay Version
The Charles K. Williams Version
SOURCE: http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/759235287/three-added-words

Sorry mate it agrees with Colossians and many Verses... especially Hebrew 1:2... you can try all you can but you cant run from the rest...
when you go to colossians you will say the world was created through YAHWEH. still trying.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom{JESUS} he{YAHWEH} appointed heir of all things, and through whom{Jesus} also he{YAHWEH} made the universe.

am helping you for the last time on the verses. let me see how you will disfigure hebrew 1:2

benalvino:

Sorry mate it agrees with Colossians and many Verses... especially Hebrew 1:2... you can try all you can but you cant run from the rest...
when you go to colossians you will say the world was created through YAHWEH. still trying.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom{JESUS} he{YAHWEH} appointed heir of all things, and through whom{Jesus} also he{YAHWEH} made the universe.

am helping you for the last time on the verses. let me see how you will disfigure hebrew 1:2

Again, there are "OVER 100 SCRIPTURE verses" CLEARLY proclaiming that it was FATHER Yahweh "ALONE", BY HIMSELF" with "NO ONE BESIDE HIM." This most certainly beats the FEW Scripture verses that you twist or pervert in an attempt to make FATHER Yahweh out to be a liar by deceptively proclaiming that it was His SON who created.

Your presentation of Hebrews 1:2 only proves your "Jesus IS God!" doctrine to be false and that Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as a spokesman of FATHER Yahweh's word in so-called "Old Testament" times.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Again, there are "OVER 100 SCRIPTURE verses" proclaiming that it was FATHER Yahweh "ALONE", BY HIMSELF" with "NO ONE BESIDE HIM." This most certainly beats the FEW Scripture verses that you twist or pervert in an attempt to make FATHER Yahweh out to be a liar by deceptively proclaiming that it was His SON who created.

Your presentation of Hebrews 1:2 only proves your "Jesus IS God!" doctrine to be false and that Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as a spokesman of FATHER Yahweh's word in so-called "Old Testament" times.

hahahahaha... so we should through this away? this is a problem for you isn't it? and it also says Jesus alone created the Heavens... you remember the post this thread opens with that you cant answer?

There is One YAHWEH... Jesus is identified as that YAHWEH also and the Holy spirit...

benalvino:

hahahahaha... so we should through this away? this is a problem for you isn't it? and it also says Jesus alone created the Heavens... you remember the post this thread opens with that you cant answer?

There is One YAHWEH... Jesus is identified as that YAHWEH also and the Holy spirit...

We? You can do what you like, but as for me and my house, yes, we will throw your twisting or perverting of Scripture and your false doctrines away! In fact, I flushed that CRAP long ago!

Nowhere in ANY translation of Scripture will you EVER find it said and taught "Jesus alone created the Heavens."

Yahshua is NEVER identified in Scripture as his and our FATHER Yahweh and 'the Holy spirit." Yahshua is specifically identified in ALL translations of Scripture as "A MAN" and as the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh. No, not as a "God-Man" or "God the Son."

Just because you are not satified with my answer to a question does not mean that I can not answer it!

Frank4YAHWEH:

Yahshua said the FATHER was GREATER than he, so they can not be equal in that sense.

which is which, while Yashua was in the form/nature of God or form of a Servant, that the father is greater?

hisblud:

which is which, while Yashua was in the form/nature of God or form of a Servant, that the father is greater?

Yahshua said that the FATHER was GREATER than he! Why is that so hard for you to understand?

The fist Adam (man and woman) were also created in the form or image of FATHER Yahweh and He is GREATER than them.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Yahshua said that the FATHER was GREATER than he! Why is that so hard for you to understand?

The fist Adam (man and woman) were also created in the form or image of FATHER Yahweh and He is GREATER than them.

yes He said it, but in WHAT form was Yashua? Form of God or Form of a Servant? As adam was in the image of God, i am.