Frank4YAHWEH:

FYI, whenever "you read in black and white" in any translation you are "lean[ing] towards scholars."

And as I have told you ... Do I really need to repeat myself time and time again?

As to the image you presented, I have no problem with. It is your stance on it that I disagee with. Why would the use of "Elohim" be "JUDGE"? It would not only be improper, but would not be a TRANSLITERATION as it says in the image itself? The English word 'judge' is not even a Hebrew word!

Frank4YAHWEH:

First off, the TRANSLATION that you are reading is not the original and Dawid was not responsible for any translations. And I have told you time and time again that the word 'elohim' is not always in reference to FATHER Yahweh. I have also showed you that elohim can be translated as "judges." Again, it all depends on the context in determining how it is to be translated.

According to many scholars Psalm 45:6 reads "Thy throne O Judge" instead of "O God" which in Hebrew or Greek has the same meanings so that in Hebrew it also could mean Judge instead of a trinitarian translation of the word theos which is generic and has many meanings.

ArtScroll Tenakh Translation

Your throne, O judge, will exist forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.

https://www.nairaland.com/1341369/anti-trinitarian-please-kindly-frosbel-answer/2#16906214

hisblud:

Ok but you have not shown me the original translation? that your so-called scholars have used to conclude that in the context of ps45.6 should be "Judge" being referred to!



repeat what? That Elohim can occasionally mean Judge, Angel or god? And i have humbly asked you, can you give us the hebrew rendering for Judge, Angel or god?



Hmm! you want to now claim that am the one that is saying that Elohim means "Judge"? lets see who is deceptive here




Sorry mate you just shot yourself on the foot. By the above statement you are finally conceding that your scholars whom you agree with are vainly wrong in context to improperly use "Judge" in ps45.6. Therefore you have agreed that you cannot replace in the context of ps45.6, the word Elohim with another word like "Judge".

Here is your statement and one of your scholars whom you agree with initially but now you are conceding that he and all those that agree that its "Judge" and not "Elohim" as been [size=18pt]WRONG[/size].

Frank4YAHWEH: Reason #1. Heb 1:2a reveals Yahshua to be the heir of what was created.

Reason #2. More than 100 Scriptures show it was Yahweh (not Yahshua) who created the heavens and the earth. Heb. 1:2 must agree with the 100 other Scriptures. For a list of these [ask for] our paper, "Who Is the Creator?" ( http://www.halleluyah.org/ContactUs.html ).

For these reasons, the sentence in Heb. 1:2b must have
originally read like the Diaglott reads today, Yahweh "... in the last of these days spoke to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, ON ACCOUNT OF whom also he constituted the ages; ..."

Another acceptable translation would be, "... a Son, FOR whom he created the world."

Many times the King James Version as well as more modern versions translate dia as "for," "because of," "therefore" [meaning "for this reason"]. For a more detailed layout of the word di' (dia), [see] for our [study], "Hebrews 1:2 - Berry." ( http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/759287296/hebrews-12 0.

This is not to say the the King's Men purposely mistranslated, nor is this to say they were dishonest. Not at all. On the contrary, they no doubt delivered what they believed to be the correct translation of Heb. 1:2. We must realize, however, that all of the King's Men believed the doctrine of the Trinity (one is three, and three are one). Believing this, they saw no contradiction between this Scripture (as they translated it) and the 100 Scriptures which show that Yahweh the Father is truly and personally the Creator of the heaven and earth.
Excerpt from: http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

Frank4YAHWEH:

I really have no need to prove the so-called "Holy Trinity" doctrine wrong, since it is simply never taught or explained in Scripture as Trinitarian scholars explain this foolishness.

When Yahshua said " And now, O FATHER, esteem YOU me with YOUR OWN SELF with the esteem [b]which I had with YOU before the world was. ", he was giving reference to the esteem ["glory"] that he had with his and our FATHER Yahweh before the world was. He was not giving reference to his pre-existing his birth before the world was. A father most certainly can have esteem for their own child before they are born and come into existence. [/b][size=18pt] A child can also refer to the esteem their father had for them before they were born and came into existence.[/size] This would stand true in relation to Yahshua, since he most certainly had a record of the esteem that FATHER Yahweh had for him before the world was in the Scripture that he, his disciples, and the Apostles taught from.

I would also like to point out and explain my emphasis of CAPITALIZATION and underlining in the following Scripture verse that you presented:

" And now, O FATHER, esteem YOU me with YOUR OWN SELF with the esteem which I had with YOU before the world was."

This verse alone proves the "Jesus IS God!" doctrine to be false!

As you will note, I have CAPITALIZED every word that Yahshua used in reference TO FATHER Yahweh in WHAT YAHSHUA SAID TO HIM and I have underlined every reference word that Yahshua used in reference to himself. Yahshua was not communing ["praying"] to himself in heaven but was communing with his and our FATHER Yahweh WHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH.

Frank4YAHWEH:

FYI, whenever "you read in black and white" in any translation you are "lean[ing] towards scholars."

And as I have told you ... Do I really need to repeat myself time and time again?

As to the image you presented, I have no problem with. It is your stance on it that I disagee with. Why would the use of "Elohim" be "JUDGE"? It would not only be improper, but would not be a TRANSLITERATION as it says in the image itself? The English word 'judge' is not even a Hebrew word!

Frank4YAHWEH:

First off, the TRANSLATION that you are reading is not the original and Dawid was not responsible for any translations. And I have told you time and time again that the word 'elohim' is not always in reference to FATHER Yahweh. I have also showed you that elohim can be translated as "judges." Again, it all depends on the context in determining how it is to be translated.

According to many scholars Psalm 45:6 reads "Thy throne O Judge" instead of "O God" which in Hebrew or Greek has the same meanings so that in Hebrew it also could mean Judge instead of a trinitarian translation of the word theos which is generic and has many meanings.

ArtScroll Tenakh Translation

Your throne, O judge, will exist forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.

https://www.nairaland.com/1341369/anti-trinitarian-please-kindly-frosbel-answer/2#16906214

Frank4YAHWEH:

FYI, whenever "you read in black and white" in any translation you are "lean[ing] towards scholars."

And as I have told you ... Do I really need to repeat myself time and time again?

As to the image you presented, I have no problem with. It is your stance on it that I disagee with. Why would the use of "Elohim" be "JUDGE"? It would not only be improper, but would not be a TRANSLITERATION as it says in the image itself? The English word 'judge' is not even a Hebrew word!

Frank4YAHWEH:

First off, the TRANSLATION that you are reading is not the original and Dawid was not responsible for any translations. And I have told you time and time again that the word 'elohim' is not always in reference to FATHER Yahweh. I have also showed you that elohim can be translated as "judges." Again, it all depends on the context in determining how it is to be translated.

According to many scholars Psalm 45:6 reads "Thy throne O Judge" instead of "O God" which in Hebrew or Greek has the same meanings so that in Hebrew it also could mean Judge instead of a trinitarian translation of the word theos which is generic and has many meanings.

ArtScroll Tenakh Translation

Your throne, O judge, will exist forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.

https://www.nairaland.com/1341369/anti-trinitarian-please-kindly-frosbel-answer/2#16906214

hisblud:

Lol i laf in anti trinitarian speech NOTE its WITH not FOR Yashua was WITH the Father before the world not FOR please heheh see twisting of verse....

Frank4YAHWEH: No, I said that he did not MAKE himself huMAN, he "come in the flesh", was MADE of a woman and was born "A MAN"! It says ",... took on him the form of a servant, and was MADE in the likeness of men ..." It was FATHER Yahweh Who MADE Yahshua is the likeness of men, since it is He Who is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. Note that Adam (MAN and woMAN) were also MADE in FATHER Yahweh's image MAKING Yahshua the "Second Adam." Yahshua had to be a man just like us in having the same origin. Yahshua did not originate as "God" and pre-exist his birth as an actual being and neither did we!

benalvino:

When I say he twist the bible to cook up meaning this is exactly what i have been seeing... in phil 2:6 on ward he took only the was made in the likeness of men... and throw away what he was before... when i ask him question based on that he said it is a silly question... then i showed him the verses he throw away as a reason the question is coming, and till now he did not respond.
What form or nature was Jesus before he was made the likeness of men?



compare the bold with this verse he is talking about

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men

Frank words don't go with the bible... in fact it says the bible is lying because the bible says he exist as God before he was made man... Frank says he was made man but never existed.

frosbel: ^^^

You are too bonded with traditional dogmas to come to a knowledge of the truth of who God really is, the one and only true GOD as Jesus himself attested to.

Not too much time these days, carry on with you 3-god worship, I will stick with ONE.

benalvino:

I believe he must be in his pool of confusion swimming at the moment

Frank4YAHWEH:

I really can not see anything confusing about my confessing and believing that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh. That wht be you who is swimming in the confusing and deceptive so-called "Holey Trinity" doctrine!

benalvino:

When I say he twist the bible to cook up meaning this is exactly what i have been seeing... in phil 2:6 on ward he took only the was made in the likeness of men... and throw away what he was before... when i ask him question based on that he said it is a silly question... then i showed him the verses he throw away as a reason the question is coming, and till now he did not respond.
What form or nature was Jesus before he was made the likeness of men?



compare the bold with this verse he is talking about

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men

Frank words don't go with the bible... in fact it says the bible is lying because the bible says he exist as God before he was made man... Frank says he was made man but never existed.

Frank4YAHWEH:

It would be you who is lieing, since nowhere in ANY Scripture translation will you ever find it said about Messiah "he exist as God before he was made man." You also lied in saying "Frank says he was made man but never existed." I have never made such a foolish statement as this! Where did you learn to read?

benalvino:

you must honor the son and the father equally... and every creature will worship the father and son together
is that not idolatry?

Frank4YAHWEH:

Our Heavenly FATHER and Creator and His SON are idols?

benalvino:
nope... but the bible says you shall not worship other Gods... if Jesus is just a man then it is idolatry

benalvino:

When I say he twist the bible to cook up meaning this is exactly what i have been seeing... in phil 2:6 on ward he took only the was made in the likeness of men... and throw away what he was before... when i ask him question based on that he said it is a silly question... then i showed him the verses he throw away as a reason the question is coming, and till now he did not respond.
What form or nature was Jesus before he was made the likeness of men?



compare the bold with this verse he is talking about

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men

Frank words don't go with the bible... in fact it says the bible is lying because the bible says he exist as God before he was made man... Frank says he was made man but never existed.

benalvino:

When I say he twist the bible to cook up meaning this is exactly what i have been seeing... in phil 2:6 on ward he took only the was made in the likeness of men... and throw away what he was before... when i ask him question based on that he said it is a silly question... then i showed him the verses he throw away as a reason the question is coming, and till now he did not respond.
What form or nature was Jesus before he was made the likeness of men?



compare the bold with this verse he is talking about

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men

Frank words don't go with the bible... in fact it says the bible is lying because the bible says he exist as God before he was made man... Frank says he was made man but never existed.

Frank4YAHWEH:


"THE MAN" Yahhsua is most certainly worthy of "worship" as FATHER Yahweh's anointed and appointed Messianic King, but we are not to "woship" "THE MAN" Yahshua as his and our Heavenly Father and Creator Yahweh.

hisblud:

Hmm while reading your post italised, i was "hit" with a sledge hammer of revelation and i saw it clean clear... and i was wow!!! been reading but just saw it.....

frosbel: ^^^

You are too bonded with traditional dogmas to come to a knowledge of the truth of who God really is, the one and only true GOD as Jesus himself attested to.

Not too much time these days, carry on with you 3-god worship, I will stick with ONE.

benalvino:

but both were worshiped equally...
so let me ask you... How do you Honor YAHWEH?
How do you praise and adore YAHWEH?

hisblud:

to the bolded, You mean human logical and scientific wisdom that can be tested mathematically and accepted by the world? Then guy, you are leaning closer to the wisdom of the world which will come to naught.... the mystery of the Godhead is too high for simpleton of the world to comprehend except they have the Holy Spirit. And if you are convinced that logically comprehending the Godhead is the way to go... sorry... need to have a repentance [change of mind], in fact you must be a baby again with humility....

ONE as numerical one or ONE as a unity? which will you stick with?

hisblud:

lol good kwetion... now we are gradually leaving Yashua's pre-existence into Worship of Yashua....interesting move...i love the kwetion....

benalvino:

but both were worshiped equally...
so let me ask you... How do you Honor YAHWEH?
How do you praise and adore YAHWEH?

benalvino:

he has twisted till he can twist no more... so that side is done he cant go further with my question since he refuse to agree that the bible says Jesus was in the form God before he uses Mary to enter the world.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Nowhere in ANY translation of Scripture will you EVER find it SAID "Jesus was in the form God before he uses Mary to enter the world."

benalvino:

lol... now it is my words you are twisting!!! did i ever said it is written in the bible like that? or am simply explaining to you that he was in a nature/form before he became man... My point is something that didnt exist before cant be something before he was born...

phil 2:5-10 says he was in the form God but gave it up and become man... even as the bible is telling you that you are still arguing with it... this is where i say you are saying the bible is lying.

Edit: i read what i said again... but yes it was an explanation... i was suppose you use teach instead of says. anyhow you still get my point.

Frank4YAHWEH:

No, I am not twisting your words! You specifically SAID "THE BIBLE SAYS" Jesus was in the form God before he uses Mary to enter the world." When you say "THE BIBLE SAYS" something, you had better give an exact quote from one of the MANY Scripture translation of what it ACTUALLY SAYS, since Scripture teaches within itself that we are not to add on to nor take away from the prophecy of Scipture. Nowhere in ANY translation of Scripture does it EVER teach such foolishness!

benalvino:

address my question then

Frank4YAHWEH:

What question?