benalvino:

go up and look... How is the father to be honored?
how is he to be praised?

why did colossians says Jesus was before all things when he didnt exist according to you.

Colossians 1:16 is in reference to FATHER Yahweh and not to His SON Yahshua.

FATHER Yahweh can be honored, praised, worshipped, etc. in MANY ways, such as in obedience, song, communion, etc.
Get it straight! I did not say that Yahshua did no exist. I said that he did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being.

^^^

benalvino:

go up and look... How is the father to be honored?
how is he to be praised?

why did colossians says Jesus was before all things when he didnt exist according to you.

wow, you are giving him 2 questions [Worship and preexistence] at a go, and surely he wont answer you. Take one and see how he twist it to a fault. Am sorry for he seeing yet cannot comprehend, May the mercy of God open his eyes.

@frank

Get it straight! I did not say that Yahshua did no exist.

ok

I said that he did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being.

give scripture and what do you mean by "actual being"? Do care to share.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Colossians 1:16 is in reference to FATHER Yahweh and not to His SON Yahshua.

FATHER Yahweh can be honored, praised, worshipped, etc. in MANY ways, such as in obedience, song, communion, etc.
Get it straight! I did not say that Yahshua did no exist. I said that he did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being.

lmao... can you people see how this guy just made a joke out of him self? lets look at colossians
He{Jesus} is the image of the invisible God{Father}, the firstborn of all creation{frank is this talking about Jesus or the father?}. 16For by Him{Jesus} all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17[b]He[/b]{Jesus} is before all things, and in Him{Jesus} all things hold together

now we have seen how you completely take the bible and turn it up side down... first phil 2:6 then John 1:1-14 now colossians and even Hebrew 1:2. how is it in reference to the father? how can you just blindly say that? you and frosbel are 2 people that is here to confuse trinitarians and unitarians plus Jehovah's witness... with this statement you have put your self in i know nothing about the bible category...

And i ask you how do you honor YAHWAH... you refuse to answer... do you not Honor him?

Frank4YAHWEH:
Colossians 1:16 is in reference to FATHER Yahweh and not to His SON Yahshua.

@Frank please & please and enough is enough just hold your peace about pre-existence of Yeshua. With a plain verses like that Col 1:14-18 you can still come and say the above.

God have mercy!

I remember this wonderful name of Yeshau...Immanuel.....God with Us......

Emusan:

@Frank please & please and enough is enough just hold your peace about pre-existence of Yeshua. With a plain verses like that Col 1:14-18 you can still come and say the above.

God have mercy!

I remember this wonderful name of Yeshau...Immanuel.....God with Us......

haha you are seeing it o... all of a sudden he said colossians was in reference to the father...

and a simple question like how do you Honor YAHWEH he wont answer.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Colossians 1:16 is in reference to FATHER Yahweh and not to His SON Yahshua.

[size=18pt]FATHER Yahweh can be honored, praised, worshipped, etc. in MANY ways, such as in obedience, song, communion, etc.[/size]
Get it straight! I did not say that Yahshua did no exist. I said that he did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being.

^^^
ben i lol laf so i cant honored, praised, worshipped, etc. YASHUA in MANY ways, such as in obedience, song, communion, etc.

Again read what i said

Frank4YAHWEH:

FYI, whenever "you read in black and white" in any translation you are "lean[ing] towards scholars."

Ok but you have not shown me the original translation? that your so-called scholars have used to conclude that in the context of ps45.6 should be "Judge" being referred to!

And as I have told you ... Do I really need to repeat myself time and time again?

repeat what? That Elohim can occasionally mean Judge, Angel or god? And i have humbly asked you, can you give us the hebrew rendering for Judge, Angel or god?

As to the image you presented, I have no problem with. It is your stance on it that I disagee with. Why would the use of "Elohim" be "JUDGE"? It would not only be improper, but would not be a TRANSLITERATION as it says in the image itself? The English word 'judge' is not even a Hebrew word!

Hmm! you want to now claim that am the one that is saying that Elohim means "Judge"? lets see who is deceptive here

Frank4YAHWEH:

First off, the TRANSLATION that you are reading is not the original and Dawid was not responsible for any translations. And I have told you time and time again that the word 'elohim' is not always in reference to FATHER Yahweh. I have also showed you that elohim can be translated as "judges." Again, it all depends on the context in determining how it is to be translated.

Sorry mate you just shot yourself on the foot. By the above statement you are finally conceding that your scholars whom you agree with are vainly wrong in context to improperly use "Judge" in ps45.6. Therefore you have agreed that you cannot replace in the context of ps45.6, the word Elohim with another word like "Judge".

Here is your statement and one of your scholars whom you agree with initially but now you are conceding that he and all those that agree that its "Judge" and not "Elohim" as been [size=18pt]WRONG[/size].

According to many scholars Psalm 45:6 reads "Thy throne O Judge" instead of "O God" which in Hebrew or Greek has the same meanings so that in Hebrew it also could mean Judge instead of a trinitarian translation of the word theos which is generic and has many meanings.

ArtScroll Tenakh Translation

Your throne, O judge, will exist forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.

https://www.nairaland.com/1341369/anti-trinitarian-please-kindly-frosbel-answer/2#16906214

hisblud:

^^^
ben i lol laf so i cant honored, praised, worshipped, etc. YASHUA in MANY ways, such as in obedience, song, communion, etc.

you never see something... I just they wait for am to come back... as for the pre-existence of jesus he made a joke out of him self... frosbel knows the truth so he doesnt stick around to let the truth make fool out of him... so he comes post one small confusion and run away.

hisblud:

^^^
ben i lol laf so i cant honored, praised, worshipped, etc. YASHUA in MANY ways, such as in obedience, song, communion, etc.

I never said that you could not! You asked about honor and praise to the FATHER specifically, not the SON!

Frank4YAHWEH:

I never said that you could not! You asked about honor and praise to the FATHER specifically, not the SON!

So should you praise and honor the son equally?

benalvino:
you never see something... I just they wait for am to come back... as for the pre-existence of jesus he made a joke out of him self... frosbel knows the truth so he doesnt stick around to let the truth make fool out of him... so he comes post one small confusion and run away.

I don't stick around here , because there is no point arguing with someone who has made up his mind to worship 3 gods.

benalvino:
you never see something... I just they wait for am to come back... as for the pre-existence of jesus he made a joke out of him self... frosbel knows the truth so he doesnt stick around to let the truth make fool out of him... so he comes post one small confusion and run away.

ben why u do this to fros na...lol... and hin leave frank to they make fool of himself

frosbel:

I don't stick around here , because there is no point arguing with someone who has made up his mind to worship 3 gods.

lol and you did not make up your mind? you know the verse that says he exist in the form or nature God before he became flesh... verse you said you wont accept from the bible... what about the one that says he is before all things? na you make up your mind. this is not the trinity atm... its about if Jesus pre-exist...

hisblud: ben why u do this to fros na...lol... and hin leave frank to they make fool of himself

lol an example of his confusion is that we are discussing about Jesus preexistence and he is coming to say we have made up our mind about the trinity... he knows we are not talking about the trinity.

franky Again read what i said

Frank4YAHWEH:

FYI, whenever "you read in black and white" in any translation you are "lean[ing] towards scholars."

Ok but you have not shown me the original translation? that your so-called scholars have used to conclude that in the context of ps45.6 should be "Judge" being referred to!

And as I have told you ... Do I really need to repeat myself time and time again?

repeat what? That Elohim can occasionally mean Judge, Angel or god? And i have humbly asked you, can you give us the hebrew rendering for Judge, Angel or god?

As to the image you presented, I have no problem with. It is your stance on it that I disagee with. Why would the use of "Elohim" be "JUDGE"? It would not only be improper, but would not be a TRANSLITERATION as it says in the image itself? The English word 'judge' is not even a Hebrew word!

Hmm! you want to now claim that am the one that is saying that Elohim means "Judge"? lets see who is deceptive here

Frank4YAHWEH:

First off, the TRANSLATION that you are reading is not the original and Dawid was not responsible for any translations. And I have told you time and time again that the word 'elohim' is not always in reference to FATHER Yahweh. I have also showed you that elohim can be translated as "judges." Again, it all depends on the context in determining how it is to be translated.

Sorry mate you just shot yourself on the foot. By the above statement you are finally conceding that your scholars whom you agree with are vainly wrong in context to improperly use "Judge" in ps45.6. Therefore you have agreed that you cannot replace in the context of ps45.6, the word Elohim with another word like "Judge".

Here is your statement and one of your scholars whom you agree with initially but now you are conceding that he and all those that agree that its "Judge" and not "Elohim" as been [size=18pt]WRONG[/size].

According to many scholars Psalm 45:6 reads "Thy throne O Judge" instead of "O God" which in Hebrew or Greek has the same meanings so that in Hebrew it also could mean Judge instead of a trinitarian translation of the word theos which is generic and has many meanings.

ArtScroll Tenakh Translation

Your throne, O judge, will exist forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.

https://www.nairaland.com/1341369/anti-trinitarian-please-kindly-frosbel-answer/2#16906214

benalvino: you know the verse that says he exist in the form or nature God before he became flesh... verse you said you wont accept from the bible...

There is no "verse [in Scripture] that says he exist in the form or nature God before he became flesh."

hisblud: ben why u do this to fros na...lol... and hin leave frank to they make fool of himself

make a fool of himself ? why, for saying that God is one , while you worship a Pagan trinity made up of 3 gods ? You are a ploytheist , no ?

hisblud: @frank ok

give scripture and what do you mean by "actual being"? Do care to share.

Your belief is that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an "actual being" opposed to my belief that Yahshua only pre-existed in FATHER Yahweh's plan as the promised coming Messiah. The true worshippers of FATHER Yahweh and the prophets of old did not believe that the Messiah presently existed, but were in waiting for the Messaih to be raised up through the seed of Dawid. The COMING of the Messaih has always beenj a future event to the true worshippers of FATHER Yahweh.

Frank4YAHWEH:

There is no "verse [in Scripture] that says he exist in the form or nature God before he became flesh."

do you know what summary means? do you know what the scope of the verse is? well i have told you what the verses says... It says Jesus exist in the form God... do you have problem with that?

Frank4YAHWEH:

Your belief is that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an "actual being" opposed to my belief that Yahshua only pre-existed in FATHER Yahweh's plan as the promised coming Messiah. The true worshippers of FATHER Yahweh and the prophets of old did not believe that the Messiah presently existed, but were in waiting for the Messaih to be raised up through the seed of Dawid. The COMING of the Messaih has always beenj a future event to the true worshippers of FATHER Yahweh.

lol now you have read from oneness pentecostal..... hahahahaha... people who teach modalism you keep digging the internet and taking the wrong thing... But you have just admitted he preexist anyhow... but in the wrong way. lol... the word became flesh in john and the word was God in john... in phil the word was in the form God and then took on human flesh human likeness...

the universe was created through the word... in hebrew and colossians it was created through the son therefore word = son.
the word was in the the beginning... you can push the beginning back as much as you want but the bible says the word was there... now in colossians bible says he was before all things... meaning the word = Jesus because he was in the beginning.
YAHWEH created everything for him self... Everything was created for Jesus through Jesus...

oneness says the father is jesus and jesus is the holy spirit and that is from where you are getting this he was in the plan of the father... lol

now you agreed in the wrong way that jesus preexisted... hahahahaaha

benalvino:

lmao... can you people see how this guy just made a joke out of him self? lets look at colossians
He{Jesus} is the image of the invisible God{Father}, the firstborn of all creation{frank is this talking about Jesus or the father?}. 16For by Him{Jesus} all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17[b]He[/b]{Jesus} is before all things, and in Him{Jesus} all things hold together

now we have seen how you completely take the bible and turn it up side down... first phil 2:6 then John 1:1-14 now colossians and even Hebrew 1:2. how is it in reference to the father? how can you just blindly say that? you and frosbel are 2 people that is here to confuse trinitarians and unitarians plus Jehovah's witness... with this statement you have put your self in i know nothing about the bible category...

And i ask you how do you honor YAHWAH... you refuse to answer... do you not Honor him?

Who [FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua] is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE Mighty One [FATHER Yahweh], the FIRSTBORN of all creation: For by Him (FATHER Yahweh] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him [FATHER Yahweh], and for Him [FATHER Yahweh]: And He [FATHER Yahweh] is before all things, and by Him [FATHER Yahweh] all things are held together. And he [Yahshua] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

FATHER Yahweh's SON is the FIRSTBORN of all creation, not FATHER Yahweh!

FATHER Yahweh is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM, not His SON Yahshua!

Yahshua is the FIRSTBORN from the daed, not his and our FATHER Yahweh.

Yahshua is the FIRSTBORN of all creation in that he is the first fruit of the "first fruits" of the resurrection or the FIRSTBORN from the dead. FATHER Yahweh is still in the creation process and Yahshua being the FIRSTBORN into his and our FATHER Yahweh's NEW Creation of a NEW heavens and a NEW earth.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Who [FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua] is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE Mighty One [FATHER Yahweh], the FIRSTBORN of all creation: For by Him (FATHER Yahweh] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him [FATHER Yahweh], and for Him [FATHER Yahweh]: And He [FATHER Yahweh] is before all things, and by Him [FATHER Yahweh] all things are held together. And he [Yahshua] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

FATHER Yahweh's SON is the FIRSTBORN of all creation, not FATHER Yahweh!

FATHER Yahweh is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM, not His SON Yahshua!

Yahshua is the FIRSTBORN from the daed, not his and our FATHER Yahweh.

Yahshua is the FIRSTBORN of all creation in that he is the first fruit of the "first fruits" of the resurrection or the FIRSTBORN from the dead. FATHER Yahweh is still in the creation process and Yahshua being the FIRSTBORN into his and our FATHER Yahweh's NEW Creation of a NEW heavens and a NEW earth.

hahahaha... I am beginning to think english is fraud thanks to you frank hahahahahha... see the transition of personality but you made another yeye out of your self...
By=through so who created everything through the father? so now the father is the media in which everything was created contradicting every other verse... hahahahahaahaha

how did you know when to switch to the father and to the son? lol
15 says he[jesus] that is the subject of the verse... who the verse is talking about...
for by him which is connected to the He that starts the verse and not connected to the invisible God... lmao you people are seeing twisted colossians 1;15 from frank?

benalvino:

lol now you have read from oneness pentecostal..... hahahahaha... people who teach modalism you keep digging the internet and taking the wrong thing... But you have just admitted he preexist anyhow... but in the wrong way. lol... the word became flesh in john and the word was God in john... in phil the word was in the form God and then took on human flesh human likeness...

the universe was created through the word... in hebrew and colossians it was created through the son therefore word = son.
the word was in the the beginning... you can push the beginning back as much as you want but the bible says the word was there... now in colossians bible says he was before all things... meaning the word = Jesus because he was in the beginning.
YAHWEH created everything for him self... Everything was created for Jesus through Jesus...

oneness says the father is jesus and jesus is the holy spirit and that is from where you are getting this he was in the plan of the father... lol

now you agreed in the wrong way that jesus preexisted... hahahahaaha

I do not get that the Messiah was in the plan of Yahweh from the Oneness Pentecostal religion. All thoughout History FATHER Yahweh's pepole have been in waiting on the promised COMING Messiah that had not been raised up through the seed of Dawid yet and who had not yet come into existence.

benalvino:

hahahaha... I am beginning to think english is fraud thanks to you frank hahahahahha... see the transition of personality but you made another yeye out of your self...
By=through so who created everything through the father? so now the father is the media in which everything was created contradicting every other verse... hahahahahaahaha

how did you know when to switch to the father and to the son? lol
15 says he[jesus] that is the subject of the verse... who the verse is talking about...
for by him which is connected to the He that starts the verse and not connected to the invisible God... lmao you people are seeing twisted colossians 1;15 from frank?

Your responses are becoming unintelligible now! Are you a foreigner or are you simply an uneducated?

Frank4YAHWEH:

I do not get that the Messiah was in the plan of Yahweh from the Oneness Pentecostal religion. All thoughout History FATHER Yahweh's pepole have been in waiting on the promised COMING Messiah that had not been raised up through the seed of Dawid yet and who had not yet come into existence.

you said he never existed before... now all of a sudden he existed just as Oneness or jesus only pentecostal teaches... i am saying this because you have admitted that Jesus preexist

Frank4YAHWEH:

Your responses are becoming unintelligible now!

sorry about that... but i am asking you how did you know when to switch to the father... and who created the universe through the father? remember By = through.

benalvino:

you said he never existed before... now all of a sudden he existed just as Oneness or jesus only pentecostal teaches... i am saying this because you have admitted that Jesus preexist

No, I do not believe that the Messiah pre-existed just as Oneness or jesus only pentecostal teaches. They believe that the Messiah pre-existed his birth and I do not.

Frank4YAHWEH:

No, I do not believe that the Messiah pre-existed just as Oneness or jesus only pentecostal teaches. They believe that the Messiah pre-existed his birth and I do not.

flipflop... see what you said before...

Frank4YAHWEH:

Your belief is that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an "actual being" opposed to my belief that Yahshua only pre-existed in FATHER Yahweh's plan as the promised coming Messiah. The true worshippers of FATHER Yahweh and the prophets of old did not believe that the Messiah presently existed, but were in waiting for the Messaih to be raised up through the seed of Dawid. The COMING of the Messaih has always beenj a future event to the true worshippers of FATHER Yahweh.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Who [FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua] is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE Mighty One [FATHER Yahweh], the FIRSTBORN of all creation: For by Him (FATHER Yahweh] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him [FATHER Yahweh], and for Him [FATHER Yahweh]: And He [FATHER Yahweh] is before all things, and by Him [FATHER Yahweh] all things are held together. And he [Yahshua] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

This is how you will know you're twisting Bible.

If you want to know how to use Whom & Who simply put

Him=Whom
He=Who, with this you will know the approprate one to use.

Verse 14 "In WHOM(Him), we have redemption through his blood, even the forgivness of our sins:"
Now! This verse made it clear that the rest of statement in the other verses was listed to this same person.

Reasons being that a colon(: ) ended this verse. Where can we use colon? We use colon [b]to introduce a list and use it only after a full sentence which ends in a noun.
Verse 15-17 is a list of verse 14.

Is it through the blood of YAWHEW that will have redemption for our sins or Yeshua?
because you've replaced Him for God in the rest of that chapter.

Keep deluding yourself.

Last token, John 6:62 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he(Jesus) was before?

This is Jesus' statement not emusan.

Shalom!

benalvino:
sorry about that... but i am asking you how did you know when to switch to the father... and who created the universe through the father? remember By = through.

Imagine maybe he has forgotten he made that statement By=through.

He even capitalised the combine words FIRSTBORN but failed to ask himself, is YAHWEH or Yeshua the firstborn? because Who infront of verse 15 indicates that the person who is the image of invisible God seperated by a coma(,) is also the FIRSTBORN.

Emusan:

Imagine maybe he has forgotten he made that statement By=through.

He even capitalised the combine words FIRSTBORN but failed to ask himself, is YAHWEH or Yeshua the firstborn? because Who infront of verse 15 indicates that the person who is the image of invisible God seperated by a coma(,) is also the FIRSTBORN.

he has gotten to a dead end, instead of him to turn around he is trying to pass through the walls. i dont even think a nursery school child will accept what he says