Frank4YAHWEH:

First off, the TRANSLATION that you are reading is not the original and Dawid was not responsible for any translations. And I have told you time and time again that the word 'elohim' is not always in reference to FATHER Yahweh. I have also showed you that elohim can be translated as "judges." Again, it all depends on the context in determining how it is to be translated.

Ok only FRANK4YAHWEH knows the original translation, please share with us thanks.

2. Who wrote this psalms as The Holy Spirit secretary?

3. Stop being deceitful, i have shown you this Elohim is ONLY used for GOD while for the following for JUDGE in hebrew is [Hashopet][Haa'2lohiym], gODS like moses in hebrew is ['2lohiym] and ANGEL in hebrew is [mee'2lohiym]thus differentiating the above from God [Elohiym] literally?

4. In context, considering the above hebrew renderings, ps45.2,6 shows NO JUDGE, NOR gods NOR ANGEL but ELOHIM.

hisblud:
Ok only FRANK4YAHWEH knows the original translation, please share with us thanks.

2. Who wrote this psalms as The Holy Spirit secretary?

3. Stop being deceitful, i have shown you this Elohim is ONLY used for Yahweh while via following for JUDGE in hebrew is [Hashopet][Haa'2lohiym], gODS like moses in hebrew is ['2lohiym] and ANGEL in hebrew is [mee'2lohiym]thus differentiating the above from God [Elohiym] literally?

4. In context, considering the above hebrew renderings, ps45.2,6 shows NO JUDGE, NOR gods NOR ANGEL but ELOHIM.

Again, it all depends on the context in determining how it is to be translated.

No, it is NOT "only [I who] knows the original translation."

No, you have NOT "shown [me] this Elohim is ONLY used for Yahweh."

"... the word 'elohim' is not always in reference to FATHER Yahweh."

Frank4YAHWEH:

The son is THE IMAGE of the INVISIBLE Yahweh, the firstborn over all creation. Being an image of Yahweh does not make one Yahweh. Yahshua being the firstborn of all craetion is not in reference to his being born or created from the beginning before anything else was craeted, but is in reference to his being the the first fruit of the "first fruits" being born from the dead. He is the first of all cretaion to be "born again" the first to be resurrected from the dead to live life eternally.

Yahshua did not exist as "God" then take up the from of a servant. Being in the "form" of Yahweh is also not being Yahweh or "God."

THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF YAHSHUA
Rev. 3:14 & Col. 1:15
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/757756028/the-pre-existence-of-yahshua

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/756934946/the-pre-existence

2 tries and still did not answer the question...
How can everything be created through him if he never exist before those things were created?

benalvino:

2 tries and still did not answer the question...
How can everything be created through him if he never exist before those things were created?

Everything was not created "THROUGH" Yahshua as if he had pre-existed his birth!

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

Frank4YAHWEH:

Everything was not created "THROUGH" Yahshua as if he had pre-existed his birth!

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

isnt it what phil 2:6 and colossians is telling you?
what part of all things you understand as some things? since when all things doesn't mean all things?

could you tell me the things that are not included in the all things?

Frank4YAHWEH:

Again, it all depends on the context in determining how it is to be translated.

and sorry you have done a very bad determinant at it when its stirring you in the face, you would rather lean towards scholars than what you read in black and white. SMH.

No, it is NOT "only [I who] knows the original translation."

oh your scholars who you presented that are all in confusion of what to replace as "GOD" in ps 45.6? Hmm scholars indeed

No, you have NOT "shown [me] this Elohim is ONLY used for Yahweh."

ok what is JUDGE, god, ANGEL in hebrew?

"... the word 'elohim' is not always in reference to FATHER Yahweh."

the answer you give to my above question would help us. Am waiting?

Hmm You have not given us the original translation nor who wrote ps45.6!

Below is the Othodox Jewish Bible of Ps 45.6

|6(7)| Thy kisse (throne), O
Elohim, is olam va'ed; the
shevet (sceptre) of Thy
Malchut is a shevet of
uprightness.

Also note the picture below of ps45.6(7) from Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, edited by Karl Ellinger and Wilhelm Rudolph. Fifth Revised Edition, edited by Adrian Schenker. © 1977 and 1997 Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft Stuttgart. Used by permission.)


note they use "Elohim" in that context not JUDGE, gods nor ANGEL which have different rendering of "lohim" as i have shown you above. I am wondering where your so called scholars got thier JUDGE from and decided to insert it into ps45.6?

Frank you and frosbel are in big denial... you wont see your errors till you start opening your eyes.
Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

you guys are so blind lol... frank tell me this translation is wrong or interpret it for me again and cook up meaning that you like out of it.

benalvino: Frank you and frosbel are in big denial... you wont see your errors till you start opening your eyes.
Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

you guys are so blind lol... frank tell me this translation is wrong or interpret it for me again and cook up meaning that you like out of it.

they have a kinda restrictive interpretation of every verse of scripture. They are in error when they interprete/reason out His Divinity with His Humanity.

benalvino:

isnt it what phil 2:6 and colossians is telling you?
what part of all things you understand as some things? since when all things doesn't mean all things? could you tell me the things that are not included in the all things?

No, Philippians 2:6 and Colossians does not tell me that FATHER Yahweh created "THROUGH" His SON Yahshua. It was "BECAUSE OF" or "ON ACCOUNT OF" Yahshua that FATHER Yahweh created the heavens and the earth and "ALL THINGS IN THEM."

[b]Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
Study On the Words Transalted as "By" and "Through"
http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say or teach that Yahshua created or pre-existed his birth.

I understand "all things" quite well, since I have been stressing this point all along by CAPITALIZING and placing "ALL THINGS" within quotation marks all throughout this forum. What I am stressing is the truth. FATHER Yahweh is the Creator of the Heavens and the earth and "ALL THINGS" IN THEM.

hisblud: and sorry you have done a very bad determinant at it when its stirring you in the face, you would rather lean towards scholars than what you read in black and white. SMH.
oh your scholars who you presented that are all in confusion of what to replace as "GOD" in ps 45.6? Hmm scholars indeed

ok what is JUDGE, god, ANGEL in hebrew?

the answer you give to my above question would help us. Am waiting?

Hmm You have not given us the original translation nor who wrote ps45.6!

Below is the Othodox Jewish Bible of Ps 45.6

|6(7)| Thy kisse (throne), O
Elohim, is olam va'ed; the
shevet (sceptre) of Thy
Malchut is a shevet of
uprightness.

Also note the picture below of ps45.6(7) from Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, edited by Karl Ellinger and Wilhelm Rudolph. Fifth Revised Edition, edited by Adrian Schenker. © 1977 and 1997 Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft Stuttgart. Used by permission.)


note they use "Elohim" in that context not JUDGE, gods nor ANGEL which have different rendering of "lohim" as i have shown you above. I am wondering where your so called scholars got thier JUDGE from and decided to insert it into ps45.6?

FYI, whenever "you read in black and white" in any translation you are "lean[ing] towards scholars."

And as I have told you ... Do I really need to repeat myself time and time again?

As to the image you presented, I have no problem with. It is your stance on it that I disagee with. Why would the use of "Elohim" be "JUDGE"? It would not only be improper, but would not be a TRANSLITERATION as it says in the image itself? The English word 'judge' is not even a Hebrew word!

Frank4YAHWEH:

No, Philippians 2:6 and Colossians does not tell me that FATHER Yahweh created "THROUGH" His SON Yahshua. It was "BECAUSE OF" or "ON ACCOUNT OF" Yahshua that FATHER Yahweh created the heavens and the earth and "ALL THINGS IN THEM."

[b]Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
Study On the Words Transalted as "By" and "Through"
http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say or teach that Yahshua created or pre-existed his birth.

I understand "all things" quite well, since I have been stressing this point all along by CAPITALIZING and placing "ALL THINGS" within quotation marks all throughout this forum. What I am stressing is the truth. FATHER Yahweh is the Creator of the Heavens and the earth and "ALL THINGS" IN THEM.

you denial continues...
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. john 1:3... you are officially twisting your understanding to suit what you want... I feel sorry for you.

a simple colossians and john 1:3 has become da vinci code for you and you want to solve mystery that is in it that isnt there... I quote phil 2:6 hebrew etc to show you that he pre-exist.
if he is already human why does he have to make him self human?

honestly take a look at the scripture and tell me you are sure of what you are saying...

benalvino:

you denial continues...
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. john 1:3... you are officially twisting your understanding to suit what you want... I feel sorry for you.

a simple colossians and john 1:3 has become da vinci code for you and you want to solve mystery that is in it that isnt there... I quote phil 2:6 hebrew etc to show you that he pre-exist.
if he is already human why does he have to make him self human?

honestly take a look at the scripture and tell me you are sure of what you are saying...

The only thing that I deny is the false doctrine that you teach.

My agenda is not to solve a mystery as in The Da Vinci Code, but is to expose the falsehood of fgalse propets and preachers and how Scripture has been perverted in translation in an attempt to deceive even the very elect. It is you that is part of the big "Triune Mystery Religion".

Yahshua did not make himself huMAN, he "come in the flesh" and was born "A MAN"!

I can not "honestly take a look at the scripture" from your deceitful perspective

Frank4YAHWEH:

The only thing that I deny is the false doctrine that you teach.

My agenda is not to solve a mystery as in The Da Vinci Code, but is to expose the falsehood of fgalse propets and preachers and how Scripture has been perverted in translation in an attempt to deceive even the very elect. It is you that is part of the big "Triune Mystery Religion".

Yahshua did not make himself huMAN, he "come in the flesh" and was born "A MAN"!

I can not "honestly take a look at the scripture" from your deceitful perspective

What was in the beginning and what became flesh... You and frosbel can live in denial all you want it won't retranslate the bible.

He didn't take the form of human Abi? Oya lets tear out Phil 2:6 cause that verse is want of the verses you dont like.

You still can't understand colossians and John 1:3. Too bad for you. Those verse hardly ever needs translation.

benalvino:

What was in the beginning and what became flesh... You and frosbel can live in denial all you want it won't retranslate the bible.

He didn't take the form of human Abi? Oya lets tear out Phil 2:6 cause that verse is want of the verses you dont like.

You still can't understand colossians and John 1:3. Too bad for you. Those verse hardly ever needs translation.

No, I have no desire whatsoever to understand understand Colossians and John 1:3. that you pervert to your own perspective!

FATHER Yahweh's word became flesh in that Yahshua was the spokesman of his and our FATHER Yahweh's word. IT was FATHER Yahweh's word that was in the beginning, not His SON Yahshua. He did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being as FATHER Yahweh's Word as the deceptive Christian preachers teach. In fact, in their own so-called "Holy Bible" says "... and the Word was God.", not "Jesus." Actually, if these translations were in accordance with the Greek they would more accurately translated as "God was the word" which changes the meaning considerably.

WHO IS THE WORD?
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/757140248/who-is-the-word

No, I said that he did not MAKE himself huMAN, he "come in the flesh", was MADE of a woman and was born "A MAN"! It says ",... took on him the form of a servant, and was MADE in the likeness of men ..." It was FATHER Yahweh Who MADE Yahshua is the likeness of men, since it is He Who is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. Note that Adam (MAN and woMAN) were also MADE in FATHER Yahweh's image MAKING Yahshua the "Second Adam." Yahshua had to be a man just like us in having the same origin. Yahshua did not originate as "God" and pre-exist his birth as an actual being and neither did we!

Frank4YAHWEH:

No, I have no desire whatsoever to understand understand Colossians and John 1:3. that you pervert to your own perspective!

FATHER Yahweh's word became flesh in that Yahshua was the spokesman of his and our FATHER Yahweh's word. IT was FATHER Yahweh's word that was in the beginning, not His SON Yahshua. He did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being as FATHER Yahweh's "Word as the deceptive Christian preachers teach. In fact, in their own so-called "Holy Bible" says "... and the Word was God.", not "Jesus."

WHO IS THE WORD?
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/757140248/who-is-the-word

No, I said that he did not MAKE himself huMAN, he "come in the flesh" and was born "A MAN"! It says ",... took on him the form of a servant, and was MADE in the likeness of men ..." It was FATHER Yahweh Who MADE Yahshua is the likeness of men, since it is He Who is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. Note that Adam (MAN and woMAN) were also MADE in FATHER Yahweh's image MAKING Yahshua the "Second Adam." Yahshua had to be a man just like us in having the same origin. Yahshua did not originate as "God" and neither did we!

you said it was the Father that made him in the likeness of men... that has contradicted you because he was something before he was made in the likeness of men... you seem to be a very confused person...

despite the verse says he was in the form God before he took the likeness of Men... you have come to say it is a lie that the bible is a lie... that Jesus did not originate as God... that verse talks about what he is before he became man... you seem to hide behind falsehood and anyone reading can see it.

The Word that was in the beginning became flesh... dont you see it... the flesh it became is Jesus therefore Jesus is the Word in the beginning... you are really confusing your self.. Isaiah and many prophets were the spoke men of YAHWEH how come they are not the word?

you are in the pool of confusion while you drink cocktail... You are saying Jesus was not in the beginning then you say the word that was in the beginning became flesh as Jesus... Are you drunk?
then colossians went on to say through him(Jesus) not the Word now...
Hebrew 1:3 says through Jesus the universe was created...

You have failed badly trying to say Jesus is not the word... It wont take long before Mr frosbel click like for the non sense you are posting here...

you are the one Deciding for the Holy spirit what he should have written... Phil 2:6 jesus exist as God then Took up human nature... you say it is a lie that God made him in the likeness of men... Was he suppose to be in the likeness of Goat?
the verse simply told you what jesus is before he became human so he can die for us... [size=18pt] [/size]

benalvino:

you said it was the Father that made him in the likeness of men... that has contradicted you because he was something before he was made in the likeness of men... you seem to be a very confused person...

despite the verse says he was in the form God before he took the likeness of Men... you have come to say it is a lie that the bible is a lie... that Jesus did not originate as God... that verse talks about what he is before he became man... you seem to hide behind falsehood and anyone reading can see it.

The Word that was in the beginning became flesh... dont you see it... the flesh it became is Jesus therefore Jesus is the Word in the beginning... you are really confusing your self.. Isaiah and many prophets were the spoke men of YAHWEH how come they are not the word?

you are in the pool of confusion while you drink cocktail... You are saying Jesus was not in the beginning then you say the word that was in the beginning became flesh as Jesus... Are you drunk?
then colossians went on to say through him(Jesus) not the Word now...
Hebrew 1:3 says through Jesus the universe was created...

You have failed badly trying to say Jesus is not the word... It wont take long before Mr frosbel click like for the non sense you are posting here...

you are the one Deciding for the Holy spirit what he should have written... Phil 2:6 jesus exist as God then Took up human nature... you say it is a lie that God made him in the likeness of men... Was he suppose to be in the likeness of Goat?
the verse simply told you what jesus is before he became human so he can die for us... [size=18pt] [/size]

You said "you said it was the Father that made him in the likeness of men... that has contradicted you because he was something before he was made in the likeness of men... you seem to be a very confused person..."

How is my saying it was the Father that made him in the likeness of men to "he was something before he was made in the likeness of men" when the later in quotation marks is what you believe, not I. My belief would be contradictory to what it is that you believe, not contrdictory to what it is that I believe. Your beliefs would most certainly be contradictory to what it is that I believe, since I teach in accordance to what is taught in Scripture and you do not. I can only conclude that it is you that is in fact the very confused person!

The verse does not say "he was in the form God before he took the likeness of Men." I have never said and you will never find me say "The Bible is a lie!" Nowhere in Scripture will you ever find it said or taught "Jesus originated as God." The verse never "talks about what he is before he became man." Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say and teach "Jesus is the Word in the beginning." I have never said that the prophets of old are the word of Yahweh or that Yahshua is the word of Yahweh. That later is your belief, not mine. You said "you are in the pool of confusion while you drink cocktail... You are saying Jesus was not in the beginning then you say the word that was in the beginning became flesh as Jesus... Are you drunk? Again, it is you that believes "Jesus IS the Word", not I! It seems that you are getting your beliefs confused with what it is that I believe.

Frank4YAHWEH:

You said "you said it was the Father that made him in the likeness of men... that has contradicted you because he was something before he was made in the likeness of men... you seem to be a very confused person..."

How is my saying it was the Father that made him in the likeness of men to "he was something before he was made in the likeness of men" when the later in quotation marks is what you believe, not I. My believ would be contradictory to what it is that you believe, not contrdictory to what it is that I believe. Your beliefs would most certainly be contradictory to what it is that I believe, since I teach in accordance to what is taught in Scripture and you do not. I can only conclude that it is you that is in fact the very confused person!

The verse does not say "he was in the form God before he took the likeness of Men." I have never said and you will never find me say "The Bible is a lie!"

dont you get that phil 2:6 was saying he was something before he become men? i never said you said that... am saying the father according to you made him to human so he was something before he becomes human as the verse tells you... but you have thrown the meaning of the whole verse away and consume the confusion you are obsessed with.

How do you teach in accordance in what his in the bible?
question...
who was in the nature God before he became Human?
Who made him self of no reputation and Took human form?
Why did he take on human form?

how can you be teaching the bible if you dont believe in the bible? you are never saying anything concerning the part Jesus was in the very Nature God... you just went straight to he was made in the likeness of men... why do you love confusion?

Frank4YAHWEH: Yahshua had to be a man just like us in having the same origin. Yahshua did not originate as "God" and pre-exist his birth as an actual being and neither did we!

Just because you want to prove Trinity wrong you can open your mouth and spew this statement?

God Himself will have mercy on us.

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

If Jesus can say He had glory with God before the world begins, does He pre-exist His birth or not?

Just let us be careful the way we handle the word of God.

Shalom!

Emusan:

Just because you want to prove Trinity wrong you can open your mouth and spew this statement?

God Himself will have mercy on us.

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

If Jesus can say He had glory with God before the world begins, does He pre-exist His birth or not?

Just let us be careful the way we handle the word of God.

Shalom!

grab a pop corn sit back and watch the analysis he will bring... just watch.

Emusan:

Just because you want to prove Trinity wrong you can open your mouth and spew this statement?

God Himself will have mercy on us.

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

If Jesus can say He had glory with God before the world begins, does He pre-exist His birth or not?

Just let us be careful the way we handle the word of God.

Shalom!

I really have no need to prove the so-called "Holy Trinity" doctrine wrong, since it is simply never taught or explained in Scripture as Trinitarian scholars explain this foolishness.

When Yahshua said " And now, O FATHER, esteem YOU me with YOUR OWN SELF with the esteem which I had with YOU before the world was.", he was giving reference to the esteem ["glory"] that he had with his and our FATHER Yahweh before the world was. He was not giving reference to his pre-existing his birth before the world was. A father most certainly can have esteem for their own child before they are born and come into existence. A child can also refer to the esteem their father had for them before they were born and came into existence. This would stand true in relation to Yahshua, since he most certainly had a record of the esteem that FATHER Yahweh had for him before the world was in the Scripture that he, his disciples, and the Apostles taught from.

I would also like to point out and explain my emphasis of CAPITALIZATION and underlining in the following Scripture verse that you presented:

" And now, O FATHER, esteem YOU me with YOUR OWN SELF with the esteem which I had with YOU before the world was."

This verse alone proves the "Jesus IS God!" doctrine to be false!

As you will note, I have CAPITALIZED every word that Yahshua used in reference TO FATHER Yahweh in WHAT YAHSHUA SAID TO HIM and I have underlined every reference word that Yahshua used in reference to himself. Yahshua was not communing ["praying"] to himself in heaven but was communing with his and our FATHER Yahweh WHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH.

benalvino:

grab a pop corn sit back and watch the analysis he will bring... just watch.

Analyse this!

Is this what you IMAGine your "God" to be?
[img]http://rokus01.files./2011/05/triune-mercury-of-soissons.jpg[/img]
Since a Triune God has three heads, how many legs and arms does it have?

^^^


Truly sad that they just don't get it.


By the way, I am reading a book currently called - The Tyranny of the Trinity: The Orthodox Cover-Up [Paperback]
P. R. Lackey (Author).

Any sincere believer will bin the pagan doctrine after just a few pages of reading this well researched book.


The author quoted one scripture which demolishes the pagan Trinity doctrine :

"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah." - Acts 2:36


Clearly GOD made Jesus Lord, Jesus was not Lord by default and therefore God is greater than Jesus.

This Trinity is like an intoxicating wine that drunkens it's adherents and sends them stumbling into confusion.

Picking a few verses here or there as the Trinitarians are apt to do is not good scholarship.

Frank4YAHWEH:

I really have no need to prove the so-called "Holy Trinity" doctrine wrong, since it is simply never taught or explained in Scripture as Trinitarian scholars explain this foolishness.

When Yahshua said "And now, O FATHER, esteem YOU me with YOUR OWN SELF with the esteem which I had with YOU before the world was.", he was giving reference to the esteem "glory" that he had with his and our FATHER Yahweh before the world was. He was not giving reference to his pre-existing his birth before the world was. A father most certainly can have esteem for their own child before they are born and come into existence. A child can also refer to the esteem their father had for them before they were born and came into existence. This would stand true in relation to Yahshua, since he most certainly had a record of the esteem that FATHER Yahweh had for him before the world was in the Scripture that he, his disciples, and the Apostles taught from.

I would also like to point out and explain my emphasis of CAPITALIZATION and underlining in the following Scripture verse that you presented:

" And now, O FATHER, esteem YOU me with YOUR OWN SELF with the esteem which I had with YOU before the world was."

This verse alone proves the "Jesus IS God!" doctrine to be false!

As you will note, I have CAPITALIZED every word that Yahshua used in reference TO FATHER Yahweh in WHAT YAHSHUA SAID TO HIM and I have underlined every reference word that Yahshua used in reference to himself. Yahshua was not communing ["praying"] to himself in heaven but was communing with his and our FATHER Yahweh WHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH.

the bold is a total lie. hahaha you no they shame? lmao

benalvino:

the bold is a total lie. hahaha you no they shame? lmao

The esteem that Yahshua had with his and our FATHER Yahweh before the world was, not the pre-xistence that he had with his and our FATHER Yahweh before the world was. One can have esteem with another without them being present.

Me know they not the shame!

" And now, O FATHER, esteem YOU me with YOUR OWN SELF with the esteem which I had with YOU before the world was."

There are obviously two separate beings spoken of here. The FATHER and His SON! The SON would be the one communicating and his FATHER would be on the receiving end of this communication. Simple as tjhat!

Frank4YAHWEH:

The esteem that Yahshua had with his and our FATHER Yahweh before the world was, not the pre-xistence that he had with his and our FATHER Yahweh before the world was. One can have esteem with another without them being present.

how can one had glory with someone before the world was and not be existing before the world was... this and other verses has shown that Jesus was before the world was...

you still cant touch John 1:3... you said the word Became flesh who is the flesh the word became?
in colossins you said not everything was created by him despite it says all things... another lie from you. twisting the bible...

then i show you hebrew 1:3 where it says the universe was created through the son... If he exist when Mary gave birth to him does it mean mary exist before the universe was made?

you are taking the bible and translate lies out of it... it is clear and your eyes are holding, funny enough you are not trying to open them.

benalvino:

how can one had glory with someone before the world was and not be existing before the world was... this and other verses has shown that Jesus was before the world was...

you still cant touch John 1:3... you said the word Became flesh who is the flesh the word became?
in colossins you said not everything was created by him despite it says all things... another lie from you. twisting the bible...

then i show you hebrew 1:3 where it says the universe was created through the son... If he exist when Mary gave birth to him does it mean mary exist before the universe was made?

you are taking the bible and translate lies out of it... it is clear and your eyes are holding, funny enough you are not trying to open them.

Can not a son be esteemed by their father before he is born or has come into existence? He certainly can! That being said, one can clearly see that our Heavenly FATHER Yahweh can also have esteem for His SON before the world was, before he was born or came into existence.

Yahshua was not LITERALLY FATHER Yahweh word and FATHER Yahweh's word did not LITERALLY become flesh. Theses are figures of speech meaning that Yahshua is the spokesman of his and our FATHER Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear. This is also made known in Revelation in that Father Yahweh's word is figuratively spoken of as a sharp two-edged sword that proceeds out of his mouth. This truth is made known by Yahshua himself in what he says as follows:

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak (Yahchanan [John] 12:49).

This is just another verse of Scripture that proves the "Jesus IS God!" doctrine to be false!

Frank4YAHWEH:

Can not an earthly father have esteem for their son before he is born or has come into existence? He certainly can! That being said, one can clearly see that our Heavenly FATHER Yahweh can also have esteem for His SON before the world was, before he was born or came into existence.

you will drown in denial soon... keep explaining rubbish and dodge the other questions i ask you. even the phil 2:6 you have not touch... what form was Jesus before he became in the likeness of men?

add it to the questions asked in the post you replied.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Can not an earthly father have esteem for their son before he is born or has come into existence? He certainly can! That being said, one can clearly see that our Heavenly FATHER Yahweh can also have esteem for His SON before the world was, before he was born or came into existence.

Yahshua was not LITERALLY FATHER Yahweh word and FATHER Yahweh's word did not LITERALLY become flesh. Theses are figures of speech meaning that Yahshua is the spokesman of his and our FATHER Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear. This is also made known in Revelation in that Father Yahweh's word is figuratively spoken of as a sharp two-edged sword that proceeds out of his mouth. This truth is made known by Yahshua himself in what he says as follows:

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak (Yahchanan [John] 12:49).

This is just another verse of Scripture that proves the "Jesus IS God!" doctrine to be false!

hahahaha what figure of speech i beg you? how is a figure of speech?

but isaiah elijah and many more were the spokeman of YAHWEH before JESUS... so If the Word did not Literally become Flesh how come the Bible says through his son he made the Universe?
you can twist and turn all you want but you cant run from this... you forget to add hebrew 1:3 that says he created the Universe through the son... you see how you are trying to cook meaning out of the bible?

again was the universe made through the son? Yes or no please

benalvino:

you will drown in denial soon... keep explaining rubbish and dodge the other questions i ask you. even the phil 2:6 you have not touch... what form was Jesus before he became in the likeness of men?

add it to the questions asked in the post you replied.

I have addressed all of your questions. Just because you do not agree with how I have answered in accordance with your belief does not mean that I have not answered you. Some of your questions are juist plain silly! For example, you asked me "what form was Jesus before he became in the likeness of men." when this is your belief, not mine, since I do not believe that he even existed before he was conceived in Mariam's womb.

Frank4YAHWEH:

I have addressed all of your questions. Just because you do not agree with how I have answered in accordance with your belief does not mean that I have not answered you. Some of your questions are juist plain silly! For example, you asked me "what form was Jesus before he became in the likeness of men." when this is your belief, not mine, since I do not believe that he even existed before he was conceived in Mariam's womb.

that means the bible is silly to you since my question is based on the bible

5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men

so how is my question silly? bible teaches he was in one form before he took on another form... when you cant answer a question you say it is silly...

you have not answered my questions.
especially how God created the Universe through his son or spokesman as you may say. since the universe was created long before Jesus was born... How can God create the Universe through him?

questions you cant answer instead you try your twist magic and think i will be fooled.
the all things the bible clearly stated in colossians, you said no... it is some things not all things thats why i keep saying you are telling me the bible was lying...

now you have come to say the word became flesh is a figure of speech. lol. keep joking. am laughing my ass out.

benalvino:

hahahaha what figure of speech i beg you? how is a figure of speech?

but isaiah elijah and many more were the spokeman of YAHWEH before JESUS... so If the Word did not Literally become Flesh how come the Bible says through his son he made the Universe?
you can twist and turn all you want but you cant run from this... you forget to add hebrew 1:3 that says he created the Universe through the son... you see how you are trying to cook meaning out of the bible?

again was the universe made through the son? Yes or no please

Again you have posed a question that I have previously answered. The Universe was made By FATHER Yahweh "BECAUSE OF", "ON ACCOUNT OF" or "FOR" His SON Yahshua, not "BY" or "THROUGH" him.

The Word "By"

Yahweh created the world "by" (through) the Son (Heb. 1:2 KJV). The Diaglott says Yahweh created the world "on account of" the Son. Any one of the three ["by," "through," or "on account of"] is, technically, a correct translation of the Greek word Di' or Dia. Dia is in the KJV translated several ways, but usually is translated as follows:

By - 243 times; through - 100 times; for - 106 times; because - 24 times; because of - 29 times; for the sake of - 32 times; etc.

The King's Men did not translate the WORD di' incorrectly in Heb. 1:2. By or through is a correct translation of the WORD, but ONLY IF THE MESSAGE in the sentence agrees, or allows it. But alas, in this case the message of the sentence will not allow this translation.

Reason #1. Heb 1:2a reveals Yahshua to be the heir of what was created.

Reason #2. More than 100 Scriptures show it was Yahweh (not Yahshua) who created the heavens and the earth. Heb. 1:2 must agree with the 100 other Scriptures. For a list of these [ask for] our paper, "Who Is the Creator?" ( http://www.halleluyah.org/ContactUs.html ).

For these reasons, the sentence in Heb. 1:2b must have
originally read like the Diaglott reads today, Yahweh "... in the last of these days spoke to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, ON ACCOUNT OF whom also he constituted the ages; ..."

Another acceptable translation would be, "... a Son, FOR whom he created the world."

Many times the King James Version as well as more modern versions translate dia as "for," "because of," "therefore" [meaning "for this reason"]. For a more detailed layout of the word di' (dia), [see] for our [study], "Hebrews 1:2 - Berry." ( http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/759287296/hebrews-12 0.

This is not to say the the King's Men purposely mistranslated, nor is this to say they were dishonest. Not at all. On the contrary, they no doubt delivered what they believed to be the correct translation of Heb. 1:2. We must realize, however, that all of the King's Men believed the doctrine of the Trinity (one is three, and three are one). Believing this, they saw no contradiction between this Scripture (as they translated it) and the 100 Scriptures which show that Yahweh the Father is truly and personally the Creator of the heaven and earth.
Excerpt from: http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

Frank4YAHWEH:

Again you have posed a question that I have previously answered. The Universe was made By FATHER Yahweh "BECAUSE OF", "ON ACCOUNT OF" or "FOR" His SON Yahshua, not "BY" or "THROUGH" him.

The Word "By"

Yahweh created the world "by" (through) the Son (Heb. 1:2 KJV). The Diaglott says Yahweh created the world "on account of" the Son. Any one of the three ["by," "through," or "on account of"] is, technically, a correct translation of the Greek word Di' or Dia. Dia is in the KJV translated several ways, but usually is translated as follows:

By - 243 times; through - 100 times; for - 106 times; because - 24 times; because of - 29 times; for the sake of - 32 times; etc.

The King's Men did not translate the WORD di' incorrectly in Heb. 1:2. By or through is a correct translation of the WORD, but ONLY IF THE MESSAGE in the sentence agrees, or allows it. But alas, in this case the message of the sentence will not allow this translation.

Reason #1. Heb 1:2a reveals Yahshua to be the heir of what was created.

Reason #2. More than 100 Scriptures show it was Yahweh (not Yahshua) who created the heavens and the earth. Heb. 1:2 must agree with the 100 other Scriptures. For a list of these [ask for] our paper, "Who Is the Creator?" ( http://www.halleluyah.org/ContactUs.html ).

For these reasons, the sentence in Heb. 1:2b must have
originally read like the Diaglott reads today, Yahweh "... in the last of these days spoke to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, ON ACCOUNT OF whom also he constituted the ages; ..."

Another acceptable translation would be, "... a Son, FOR whom he created the world."

Many times the King James Version as well as more modern versions translate dia as "for," "because of," "therefore" [meaning "for this reason"]. For a more detailed layout of the word di' (dia), [see] for our [study], "Hebrews 1:2 - Berry." ( http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/759287296/hebrews-12 0.

This is not to say the the King's Men purposely mistranslated, nor is this to say they were dishonest. Not at all. On the contrary, they no doubt delivered what they believed to be the correct translation of Heb. 1:2. We must realize, however, that all of the King's Men believed the doctrine of the Trinity (one is three, and three are one). Believing this, they saw no contradiction between this Scripture (as they translated it) and the 100 Scriptures which show that Yahweh the Father is truly and personally the Creator of the heaven and earth.
Excerpt from: http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

Not by him or through him? see what i said, this is how you are saying the bible is lying... and you want to change thorugh/by to on account...

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
you are becoming more and more desperate by quoting from non sense website instead of understand the bible...

add the above verse to colossians
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 [size=18pt]He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together[/size]

see the bold on colossians 1:17? what confusion will you cook up now? how can he not exist till mary gave birth to him and still be before all things?
you have said the word becoming flesh was figure of speech that means Yahweh created the world by his word and by Jesus?

the word was a him in john 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

"by" is still there... the by you are trying to replace.

John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

the through you are trying to change to "on account"
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

all the verses correspond... try hard to twist them... so far you have failed