Frank4YAHWEH:

The "Original Sin" doctrine is a false doctrine that is not taught in Scripture. We do not inherit sin from Adam and Eve!

"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment of the father's iniquity; nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be on himself." (Ezekiel 18:20; cf. vss. 19-32).

Many other passages also show the impossibility of transferring the guilt of sin (Yeremyah 31:27-30; Deuteronomy 24:16; Galatians 6:5).

Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
KJV

shdemidemi:

'FATHER Yahweh' appeared as what, visible or invisible?

The "Original Sin" doctrine is a false doctrine that is not taught in Scripture. We do not inherit sin from Adam and Eve!

"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment of the father's iniquity; nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be on himself." (Ezekiel 18:20; cf. vss. 19-32).

Many other passages also show the impossibility of transferring the guilt of sin (Yeremyah 31:27-30; Deuteronomy 24:16; Galatians 6:5).

hisblud:
Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
KJV

Frank4YAHWEH:

Well, it seems you are arguing that the word 'appear' can only be defined as being visible, but as is the case with most words they can have more than one specific definition. The word 'appear' can also be defined as "to be obvious or easily perceived; be clear or made clear by evidence." That being said, I do not take everything that the book of Genesis or the Scripturte as a whole for that matter, in a literal sense anyway, since I do not believe that snakes or serpents can literally talk to humans in their own language.

shdemidemi:

My friend, you can help yourself with the Hebrew word used and the meaning of the word 'appear'.Don't make up your mind with half baked information.

Frank4YAHWEH:


Wow! Someone who believes the fooish doctrine "Jesus IS God!" and that one can be their own father and that one can be their own son telling me to not make up my mind with half baked information!


And how do you believe the Hebrew word translated into our English language as 'appear' differs from the English definition of this word? FYI, I do not read the Scripture in Hebrew, but in the English language that I speak. Hebrew words also have diverse definitions just as our English words do.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Yes!

Frank4YAHWEH: Frank4YAHWEH:






This verse does not say that sin is passed on to all men, but that "death" is passed unto all men. One receives the wage of death for they themselves comitting sin. The Scriptural definition of sin is the disobedience of FATHER Yahweh's instruction [torah, "law"] (1 Yahchanan [John] 3:4). Yes, all HAVE sinned, but one has the option to turn from sin and be washed as white as snow and in turn they are then without sin.

Frank4YAHWEH:


Wow! Someone who believes the fooish doctrine "Jesus IS God!" and that one can be their own father and that one can be their own son telling me to not make up my mind with half baked information!


And how do you believe the Hebrew word translated into our English language as 'appear' differs from the English definition of this word? FYI, I do not read the Scripture in Hebrew, but in the English language that I speak. Hebrew words also have diverse definitions just as our English words do.

shdemidemi:

Just check up the meaning of appear and see if the invisible God can appear without an image. Simple!

hisblud:

twisting scriptures to deny the original sin....

hisblud:

yes to which, moshe or YHWH?

benalvino1:
but why are you running from this?
Who was all things created for? The father or the son? you guys should ponder on this and see how you get around it.

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil (Prov. 16:4).
the above says that all things were made for YAHWEH

what does paul think about that? lets look are colossians
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him (Col. 1:16).
paul says it was created for Jesus here.

Then we have this passage:
So I said: 'Do not take me away, O my God, in the midst of my days; your years go on through all generations. In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded. But you remain the same, and your years will never end' (Psa. 102:24-27).

this is a problem for you guys that says Jesus is not God because this verse says the heaven is the works of his hand too:
But about the Son he says, Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom .... He also says, In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end (Heb. 1:8,10-12).

Psa. 102:24-27 is written about the eternal God, but the same Scripture is applied to Jesus in the NT! How can this be unless Jesus is YHWH?
you guys should ponder...

Frank4YAHWEH:

I am not running from anything! I am simply teaching what Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS! When it comes to Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM, FATHER Yahweh speaks to me through His inspired prophetic word and says that He "ALONE", "BY HIMSELF" and with "NO ONE BESIDE HIM" created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. Not once in the so-called "New Testament" will you ever find FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua recorded as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING! I choose to believe what Scripture teaches and not the foolisness that you teach!

shdemidemi:

Just check up the meaning of appear and see if the invisible God can appear without an image. Simple!

benalvino1:

So the bible is foolishness to you? who was the father referring to in that verse?

sunkoye: shdemidemi, trust me u and frank are not on the same page. U guyz have different religion and spiritual background. Sure he has his own edited bible and allies of written books and also riding on frosbel's identity crisis. U will always earn my respect. Regards sir.

Frank4YAHWEH:

I do not have my "own edited bible" and of course I have my allies of written books that I agree with as do you. I am not "riding on frosbel's identity crisis"! In fact, I do not even know if he has an identity crisis or not and I would not know the first thing about what you mean by riding an identity crisis. No one asked you for a psychological evaluation of frosbel and it is quite obvious to me that you are not qualified to do so. I have not seen the least bit of meaning in anything that you have posted yet!

hisblud: Hi guys, i will admonish we revert back to the main issue here. Heb1.8 and ps45.6 is proof that Yashua is God not god, lesser God, Judge. In fact YASHUA IS YHWH. Frank has failed to convince me that ps45.6, from which the Hebrew writer quoted heb1.8, was not refering to Yashua. His scholarly references are not in agreement wit each other, each claiming vs 6 means different things. But on closer examination of the literal hebrew of ps 45.6, it says a different THING from those scholars. Conclusion, anti trinitarians have no base to deny the Godhood of Yashua using ps45.6.

benalvino1:

Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: 'Not one of his bones will be broken,' and, as another scripture says, 'They will look on the one they have pierced' (John 19:34-37).

The only Scripture that John could have been referring to when he wrote, "... as another scripture says, 'They will look on the one they have[b] pierced[/b]'" is the following one:

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son (Zech 12:10).

YHWH spoke those words through the prophet Zechariah, as is apparent if we would read from Zech. 12:1 down through verse 10. Note: YHWH is speaking and uses the word me in conjunction to being the one that gets pierced. Yet the Apostle John referred to the same Scripture (Zech 12:10) and says that it was fulfilled when Jesus was pierced on the cross by the Roman soldier's spear! Who was pierced, YHWH or Jesus? Since Jesus is YHWH this puzzle is solved, along with John 5:37.

is this not yet another clue? let me know if you need another sign i wont wait to post it.

benalvino1:

Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: 'Not one of his bones will be broken,' and, as another scripture says, 'They will look on the one they have pierced' (John 19:34-37).

The only Scripture that John could have been referring to when he wrote, "... as another scripture says, 'They will look on the one they have[b] pierced[/b]'" is the following one:

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son (Zech 12:10).

YHWH spoke those words through the prophet Zechariah, as is apparent if we would read from Zech. 12:1 down through verse 10. Note: YHWH is speaking and uses the word me in conjunction to being the one that gets pierced. Yet the Apostle John referred to the same Scripture (Zech 12:10) and says that it was fulfilled when Jesus was pierced on the cross by the Roman soldier's spear! Who was pierced, YHWH or Jesus? Since Jesus is YHWH this puzzle is solved, along with John 5:37.

is this not yet another clue? let me know if you need another sign i wont wait to post it.

sunkoye: I dint ask you to sit-up for frosbel. Frank...take a nomal bible and read with open mind, exlusive of extra materials. Pls do, cos U are really mixing tins up. Start frm John. Cheers

hisblud: Hi guys, i will admonish we revert back to the main issue here. Heb1.8 and ps45.6 is proof that Yashua is God not god, lesser God, Judge. In fact YASHUA IS YHWH. Frank has failed to convince me that ps45.6, from which the Hebrew writer quoted heb1.8, was not refering to Yashua. His scholarly references are not in agreement wit each other, each claiming vs 6 means different things. But on closer examination of the literal hebrew of ps 45.6, it says a different THING from those scholars. Conclusion, anti trinitarians have no base to deny the Godhood of Yashua using ps45.6.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Well, the problem is, I go strictly by what Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS and you have failed miserably in presenting to me where Scripture from ANY translation ACTUALLY SAYS "Jesus IS God!" or where in ANY translation of the so-called "New Testament" where the Messaiah is ACTUALLY RECORDED AS SAYING "I am God!"

Nowhere in ANY Scripture translation am I ever asked to confess and believe "Jesus IS God!" This righteous instruction is in completee OPPOSITION (note that the name Satan mean OPPOSER) to what these foolish, false, deceptive, and demonic prechers ask one to confess and believe. What I am ACTUALLY asked to believe IN SCRIPTURE is that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh, not the foolish statement "Jesus IS God!". Trinitarians can not get this simple truth through their thick heads, since they have been brainwashed to believe that if they do not confess and believe in the "Deity of Jesus Christ" that they will suffer as a LIVING spirit being in eternal torment for all eternity in a place called "Hell." What poppycock!

Oh Hell!
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/YAHWEHFrank/OhHell.html

benalvino1:

Bad excuse.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Since when is relying on Scripture for doctrine for reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness that the man of Yahweh may be thoroughly furnished unto all righteous works "Bad"?

I did not give an excuse. I gave the reason I not accept lies that Scvripture clearly does not teach. One can not deny that Scripture clearly SAYS that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh. They also can not deny the fact that Yahshua is recorded in the so-called "New Testament" a number of times referring to his and our Creator IN HEAVEN as "FATHER" when he was HERE ON EARTH." Even FATHER Yahweh is recorded in this same section of Scripture a number of times as referring to Yahshua as His SON.

From there few facts alone, I can only conclude that you are not speaking what is truth in accodance with or concerning what is ACTUALLY taught in Scripture.

hisblud: @frank4yahweh- fail. You have been asked heb1.8, Who was speaking, Who was spoken about and what was spoken about. In black and white, God was speaking about the Son Whom was refered as God. Then in your bid to assume something else, brought forth ps 45.6. When we looked at that verse in the concordance, you said strong's concordance was biased in favor of trinity, because it shot holes in your false confused scholars who were not in agreement, falling over themselves to disprove that Yashua is Elohim but a mere Judge etc. Then you came up with Elohim is not completely hebrew but an incorporation of the name of a canaan pagan god which formed Elohim, thus not being the original name of God but YHWH. Ok i went in line wit your flow and since ps 45.6 is old testament, we substituted God with YHWH. Again it showed that in context its ok then you began fidgeting, saying nothing but Simply YES when questioned, YES to which one, moshe or Yahweh and all you were dodging. I wonder who is deceptive here refusing to face your dilemna. Reread our discussion and you would see how you have being skipping questions i thro at you on Ps 45.2,6. And hoping to blur it when a comment on the seed of david was put forth to evade my questions. I pity you lol

Frank4YAHWEH:

And I have told you time and time again that the word 'elohim' is not always in reference to FATHER Yahweh Who you foolishly beleive is His SON and can in turn be his own FATHER. I also told you that the first part of the verse is in reference to FATHER Yahweh's SON and then when it makes mention of Who is the Creator of the heavens and the erath an ALL THINGS IN THEM, this is in reference to FATHER Yahweh.

benalvino:

hmmm......

In whom are we to take refuge? OT says the son... if you know any other person say
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him (Psa. 2:12).

Notice: one is blessed and not cursed to take refuge in the Son. Yet the following Scripture declares another problem for all who reject the deity of Christ:
This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD. He will be like a bush in the wastelands; he will not see prosperity when it comes. He will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives. But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in him" (Jer. 17:5-7).

Moreover, the Bible is clear to say YHWH is our Refuge:
You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the LORD is their refuge (Psa. 14:6).

another problem for you... you did not respond to the pierce one i posted earlier