hisblud: if you say so, was "everything" of the Father passed to the Son? If the Father is GOD in essence, will THAT "essence" not be "translated, transfered, transmuted" to the Son via the Seed of God?

Problem with you guys is that you read scriptures with preconceived false ideas.

"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;" - Romans 1:3

"Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:" - 2 Timothy 2:8

Mark 12

35 While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, “Why do the teachers of the law say that the Messiah is the son of David? 36 David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:

“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:

“Sit at my right hand

until I put your enemies

under your feet.” ’

37 David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ [size=16pt]How then can he be his son[/size]?”

" Nathanael answered him, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!” 50 Jesus answered him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.” - John 1.49-50

Yes Nathanael , that's right , Son of GOD , not GOD.

frosbel:


Who is a Christian ? a believer in 3 gods or a believer that Jesus is the Messiah.

What preconditions did Jesus himself attach to salvation ? Peter called him Messiah, Nathaniel did the same etc, I guess they are not Christians, they should have called him GOD.

Smh at Paganism.

hello what ESSENCE is contain in the Seed of God?

frosbel:


Who is a Christian ? a believer in 3 gods or a believer that Jesus is the Messiah.

What preconditions did Jesus himself attach to salvation ? Peter called him Messiah, Nathaniel did the same etc, I guess they are not Christians, they should have called him GOD.

Smh at Paganism.

My dear brother, a Christian is anybody who has the Spirit of God in him. Knowing the attribute of God and the godhead does not make you more or less a Christian, it simply means you are growing in the knowledge of who God really is.

hisblud: ok lets not use "Elohim" as hebrew name for the Hebrew Deity, let use the Name before the Hebrew accepted pagan name, which is YHWH. And that is what we will use now. In ps 45.2,6 the name YHWH was used and this is the ONLY Name of God. Therefore it cannot be a name of angels, gods, idol or JUDGES in the context use. Thus why are you deceitfully replacing YHWH in verse 6 instead of keeping it what the hebrew writter wrote in ps45.6? Is it ok by your scholarly post for ps45.2 to be YHWH but not YHWH in v6?

Moshe was given reference to as an 'elohim' ["god"] in translation. Is he Yahweh?

As I have previously made known, the Hebrew word 'elohim' (although not originally Hebrew as a whole) in translation can refer to Yahweh, angels, JUDGES, gods, idols, and even mere human beings such as Moshe. It all depends on the content in determining how it is to be properly translated. I have also made known that 'elohim' simply signifies strenght, might, power (authority) and is often given as an attributive title and not as a name.

frosbel: " Nathanael answered him, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!” 50 Jesus answered him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.” - John 1.49-50

Yes Nathanael , that's right , Son of GOD , not GOD.

frosbel, we are not sayin Jesus is not the Son of God....we are saying it takes a God to be the Son of God. Pls understand!

sunkoye: frosbel, we are not sayin Jesus is not the Son of God....we are saying it takes a God to be the Son of God. Pls understand!

Okay, it takes a 'ME' to be the Son of 'ME'.

I get it now , lol.

shdemidemi:

I am in no way saying the father is not part of this, I am saying an image would be needed for an invisible God to walk and speak, do you understand?

There is no mention of an image of Yahweh walking and speaking in Genesis! You are simply trying to force Yahshua into existence in the beginning as an actaul being by adding your own foolish reasoning and understanding.

sunkoye: frosbel, we are not sayin Jesus is not the Son of God....we are saying it takes a God to be the Son of God. Pls understand!

Any simpleton knows that one can not be their own father and that one can not be their own son! Where in Scripture does it ever teach that "it takes a God to be the Son of God."? That is just plain foolisness!

shdemidemi:

My dear brother, a Christian is anybody who has the Spirit of God in him. Knowing the attribute of God and the godhead does not make you more or less a Christian, it simply means you are growing in the knowledge of who God really is.

I myself certainly do not want to be growing in knowledge of who you think YOUR "God" really is!

frosbel:

Okay, it takes a 'ME' to be the Son of 'ME'.

I get it now , lol.

fros..this is not funny...u are mixingup tins of the spirit with physical.u cannot grasp the Bible’s over-all point of view. ur methods of interpreting Scripture is not expressed in faith, in its truth and consistency as God’s Word. If u noticed our approach has been harmonistic; for we know at the outset that God’s utterance is not self-contradictory. All u just do is to pick a verse and dwell on it. See frosbel,scripture tells us that if we are to understand Scripture we need, over and above right rules, personal insight into spiritual things. Scripture sets before us spiritual truths—truths, that is, about God, and about created things in relation to God; and to grasp spiritual truths requires spiritual receptiveness. But no man has this by nature. “The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can u know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Bro...dwelling on natural interpretation of spiritual tin will not make an headway spiritually for you! Regards!

sunkoye: fros..this is not funny...u are mixingup tins of the spirit with physical.u cannot grasp the Bible’s over-all point of view. ur methods of interpreting Scripture is not expressed in faith, in its truth and consistency as God’s Word. If u noticed our approach has been harmonistic; for we know at the outset that God’s utterance is not self-contradictory. All u just do is to pick a verse and dwell on it. See frosbel,scripture tells us that if we are to understand Scripture we need, over and above right rules, personal insight into spiritual things. Scripture sets before us spiritual truths—truths, that is, about God, and about created things in relation to God; and to grasp spiritual truths requires spiritual receptiveness. But no man has this by nature. “The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can u know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Bro...dwelling on natural interpretation of spiritual tin will not make an headway spiritually for you! Regards!

oh yeah, hiding behind buzz words like 'mystery' , 'natural or spiritual man' etc when you have nothing else to say.

No, I will not believe by faith that GOD is 3, God is 1 and if Jesus said it, I am fine with it.

frosbel:

oh yeah, hiding behind buzz words like 'mystery' , 'natural or spiritual man' etc when you have nothing else to say.

No, I will not believe by faith that GOD is 3, God is 1 and if Jesus said it, I am fine with it.

ah....mystery ke! see, there are factual mystery.tins i still pray to know, insight i still yearn for!....but wat we are discusing here are basics...cos without the Spirit’s help there can be no grasp of the message of Scripture, no conviction of the truth of Scripture, and no faith in the God of Scripture. Without the Spirit, nothing is possible but spiritual blindness and unbelief.
It follows that the we must approach the study of Scripture in humble dependence on the Holy Spirit, sure that he can learn from it nothing of spiritual significance unless he is taught of God. Confidence in one’s own powers of discernment is an effective barrier to spiritual understanding.. God bless u frosbel!

Frank4YAHWEH:

There is no mention of an image of Yahweh walking and speaking in Genesis! You are simply trying to force Yahshua into existence in the beginning as an actaul being by adding your own foolish reasoning and understanding.

I never mentioned that that particular verse mentioned the image of God. I asked if Christ could be the same image walking and talking because we now know from the account of the New Testament that Christ is actually the visible image of the invisible God.



Genesis 18
King James Version (KJV)
18 [b]And the Lord appeared [/b]unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;


Please check the meaning of appeared as used in this verse and tell me what you come up with.

sunkoye: ah....mystery ke! see, there are factual mystery.tins i still pray to know, insight i still yearn for!....but wat we are discusing here are basics...cos without the Spirit’s help there can be no grasp of the message of Scripture, no conviction of the truth of Scripture, and no faith in the God of Scripture. Without the Spirit, nothing is possible but spiritual blindness and unbelief.
It follows that the we must approach the study of Scripture in humble dependence on the Holy Spirit, sure that he can learn from it nothing of spiritual significance unless he is taught of God. Confidence in one’s own powers of discernment is an effective barrier to spiritual understanding.. God bless u frosbel!

The sword of the spirit is FATHER Yahweh's inspired prophetic word. This is the weapon that is an integral part of the armour that one must put on to fight off the wiles of the devil. This is the weapon that proceeded from Yahshua's mouth and the weapon that should proceed from our mouths. This weapon is Father Yahweh's word and nowhere in His word will you ever find the deceptive words or word phrases "Holy Trinity", "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost", "Jesus IS God!", Jesus is Creator, or "Jesus pre-existed his birth." Those who promote such words and word phrases are spiritually discerned, since these words have not proceeded from the mouth of FATHER Yahweh Whose every word we are to live by:

Yahshua answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Yahweh'" (Mattithyah [Matthew] 4:4).

All Scripture is given by inspiration of Yahweh, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Yahweh may be perfect, THROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all righteous works (1 Timothy 3:16-17).

The last verse here when it says "ALL Scripture ..." is in reference to the so-called "Old Testament", since the so-called "New Testament" had not yet been written and compiled at the time this was said. This is the Scripture that Yahshua, his disciples, and the Apostles lived by. Note that it says that one "may be perfect, THROUGHLY FURNISHED unto ALL righteous works" with these Scripture alone.

shdemidemi:


I never mentioned that that particular verse mentioned the image of God. I asked if Christ could be the same image walking and talking because we now know from the account of the New Testament that Christ is actually the visible image of the invisible God.



Genesis 18
King James Version (KJV)
18 [b]And the Lord appeared [/b]unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;


Please check the meaning of appeared as used in this verse and tell me what you come up with.

You just suggested that "Christ could be the same IMAGE walking and talking" in Genesis. Again, there is no mention of an IMAGE of FATHER Yahweh walking and talking in Genesis. There is also no explanation in Scripture that these verses convey that this was not in fact FATHER Yahweh Himself, but instead was the Messiah in His image. The promised Messiah did not come until the appointed time. He did not pre-exist His birth. There was no Messiah as an actaul being that existing in Genesis, but only in FATHER Yahweh's plan for the future. Genesis 18:1 is clearly in reference to FATHER Yahweh and not to His SON as a pre-existent being. Where "the LORD" appears in translations with "LORD" in all caps, this is where our Heavenly FATHER and Creator's Name was supposed to appear where the Jewish Masoretic scribes removed it and replaced His Name with inferior names/titles.

Yahshua is our advocate, intercesor, mediator and the spokesman of his and our FATHER Yahweh's word in this last time period. Yahshua was not a spokesman of FATHER Yahweh's word in the beginning, but only in this last time period. It was the prophets of old who were the spokesmen of FATHER Yahweh's word in the beginning before His SON Yahshua came into existence or was born as Hebrews 1:1-2 make perfectly clear.

Frank4YAHWEH:

You just suggested that "Christ could be the same IMAGE walking and talking" in Genesis. Again, there is no mention of an IMAGE of FATHER Yahweh walking and talking in Genesis. There is also no explanation in Scripture that these verses convey that this was not in fact FATHER Yahweh Himself, but instad was the Messaih in His image. The promised Messiah did not come until the appointed time. He did not pre-exist His birth. There was no Messiah as an actaul being that existing in Genesis, but only in FATHER Yahweh's plan for the future. Genesis 18:1 is clearly in reference to FATHER Yahweh and not to His SON as a pre-existent being. Where "the LORD" appears in translations with "LORD" in all caps, this is where our Heavenly FATHER and Creator's Name was supposed to appear where the Jewish Masoretic scribes removed it and replaced His Name with inferior names/titles.

Yahshua is our advocate, intercesor, mediator and the spokesman of his and our FATHER Yahweh's word in this last time period. Yahshua was not a spokesman of FATHER Yahweh's word in the beginning, but only in this last time period. It was the prophets of old who were the spokesmen of FATHER Yahweh's word in the beginning before His SON Yahshua came into existence or was born as Hebrews 1:1-2 make perfectly clear.

hummm......u did nt believe in christ pre-exitence.....tell me wat u now believe?

sunkoye: hummm......u did nt believe in christ pre-exitence.....tell me wat u now believe?

I have never believed that the Messiah pre-existed his birth or that he was "God" and at this point in time I have the same belief, since all thoughout Scripture FATHER Yahweh's inspired prophetic word speaks of the coming promised Messiah as a future event. I was taught that Yahshua was "God" and that he pre-existed his birth in the Christian religion that I was baptized into at the age of 12, but I never believed such foolisness, since I had already read and studied Scripture and knew these doctrines to be false. I did not find out till after I was baptized that they believed such foolishness. I found this out when the preacher instucted us to begin our study of Scripture from the book of John and from there he attempted to decieve by saying "Jesus is the Word in John 1:1." I believe this is the reason many preachers instruct that one start their study of Scripture from the book of John in order to deceived one with the false so-called "Holy Trinity" doctrine or the Oneness doctrine by twisting and perverting what it actaully says. I believe that one should start their study of Scripture from the very beginning just like any the book or series of books.

frosbel:

Problem with you guys is that you read scriptures with preconceived false ideas.

"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;" - Romans 1:3

"Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:" - 2 Timothy 2:8

Briliant! Frosbel... Yes you have done a great job of bringing out scripture to defend your position, instead of avoiding questions. For me it is an honor to delve deeper to the word of God.

Now this throws up for you a deeper challenge, if Yashua, is according to the above verse been portrayed "LITERALLY" that He was the seed [sperma] of david, thus you are insinuating that Yashua cannot be the Second and Last Adam, because He would have sin in Him as Adam which was passed to Him. But God forbide!

Furthermore, if by your position, that Yashua is "LITERALLY" the seed of david, you are thus claiming that Yashua was a liar when He said this

John 14:30
I will not talk with you much more, for the prince (evil genius, ruler) of the world is coming. And he has no claim on Me. [He has nothing in common with Me; there is nothing in Me that belongs to him, and he has no power over Me.]
AMP

John 14:30

30 I will no more talk much with you, for the ruler of this world doth come, and in me he hath nothing;
YLT


John 14:30
30 I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me,
NIV

Meaning what satan has a hold on the descendant of adam is becasue of SIN corruption, but of Yashua, NO SIN in Him!

Another problem arises, you would be denying the virgin birth of Christ, thus claiming that Joseph of the seed of david was His father... far far foul!


And this where we trinitarian have a strong base than you, in that we dont try to hide/mix/deny His Humanity with His Divinity when the scripture speaks of His Humanity in context and verse, we accept it; when it Speaks about His Divinity [God], we take it as been just that and NOTHING MORE but you on the other hand, have tried to recreate Him as just a mere man and nothing more, denying His Divinity.



Enigma, quote mk 12:35-37 for you and it seems you ignored it, i quote again the matthew version for you

Matt 22:42-46

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
KJV

where Yashua asked the pharasees how can He be david's Lord and at the same time Son of David, were they able to answer Him, except if you could try!

Thus you are in a real dilema to either accept that Yashua as born from the Seed [Sperma] of God or believe He was a mere man who had the sin of adam passed to Him via david from Joseph... For me God forbide.

@frank

Moshe was given reference to as an 'elohim' ["god"] in translation. Is he Yahweh?

interesting yo! In ps 45.2, 6 , is it moshe that is been spoken of or YHWH?

Frank4YAHWEH:

You just suggested that "Christ could be the same IMAGE walking and talking" in Genesis. Again, there is no mention of an IMAGE of FATHER Yahweh walking and talking in Genesis. There is also no explanation in Scripture that these verses convey that this was not in fact FATHER Yahweh Himself, but instead was the Messiah in His image.

I did not suggest Christ could be an image, I know Christ has always been the visible image of God from the beginning through scriptures. I don't see why I need the bible to tell me God's image did the walking and talking in that verse when I have been told through the secrets and mysteries revealed to Apostle Paul.

Frank4YAHWEH:
The promised Messiah did not come until the appointed time. He did not pre-exist His birth. There was no Messiah as an actaul being that existing in Genesis, but only in FATHER Yahweh's plan for the future.

Ofcourse he has always been the image of the invisible God from the beginning (whenever that was), he didn't become the image when he came in the likeness of sinful flesh.

Frank4YAHWEH:
Genesis 18:1 is clearly in reference to FATHER Yahweh and not to His SON as a pre-existent being. Where "the LORD" appears in translations with "LORD" in all caps, this is where our Heavenly FATHER and Creator's Name was supposed to appear where the Jewish Masoretic scribes removed it and replaced His Name with inferior names/titles.

Yahshua is our advocate, intercesor, mediator and the spokesman of his and our FATHER Yahweh's word in this last time period. Yahshua was not a spokesman of FATHER Yahweh's word in the beginning, but only in this last time period. It was the prophets of old who were the spokesmen of FATHER Yahweh's word in the beginning before His SON Yahshua came into existence or was born as Hebrews 1:1-2 make perfectly clear.

Did you get the question?

Only a visible image can appear according to the definition of the word 'appear'. So, who appeared in Gen18:1?

hisblud:



Now this throws up for you a deeper challenge, if Yashua, is according to the above verse been portrayed "LITERALLY" that He was the seed [spe rma] of david, thus you are insinuating that Yashua cannot be the Second and Last Adam, because He would have sin in Him as Adam which was passed to Him. But God forbide!

You are the one insinuating , presumptuously if I may add.

The bible says that Jesus is from the seed of David , if you don't agree with this , it's you prerogative .

Furthermore, if by your position, that Yashua is "LITERALLY" the seed of david, you are thus claiming that Yashua was a liar when He said this

Meaning what satan has a hold on the descendant of adam is becasue of SIN corruption, but of Yashua, NO SIN in Him!

Are you suggesting that Jesus is not the literal seed of David ? If yes , you are on a dangerous path of error and in direct contradiction to the inerrant word of God.

The sinlessness of Jesus was not because he was born without a propensity to sin , no , it was because he overcame temptation and sin in total obedience to his father , that is why sin was not found in him , because he did not obey the works of unrighteousness.

Another problem arises, you would be denying the virgin birth of Christ, thus claiming that Joseph of the seed of david was His father... far far foul!

In my opinion you are coming across as quite presumptuous , with an unhealthy tendency to twist people's words rather than ask for clarification .

[b] And this where we trinitarian have a strong base than you, in that we dont try to hide/mix/deny His Humanity with His Divinity when the scripture speaks of His Humanity in context and verse, we accept it; when it Speaks about His Divinity [God], we take it as been just that and NOTHING MORE but you on the other hand, have tried to recreate Him as just a mere man and nothing more, denying His Divinity.

You have no strong base , your illogical dogma which defies the laws of mathematics is a mysterious farce which cannot stand up to the scrunity of scripture or human intelligence.

It is in fact an insult to our intelligence.

God is , has and always will be one indivisible being and Jesus the messiah , his Son.

hisblud: @frank interesting yo! In ps 45.2, 6 , is it moshe that is been spoken of or YHWH?

Yes!

shdemidemi:

My dear brother, a Christian is anybody who has the Spirit of God in him. Knowing the attribute of God and the godhead does not make you more or less a Christian, it simply means you are growing in the knowledge of who God really is.

Those who have Father Yahweh's spirit are guided by His inspired prophetic word and not by so-called "Church" doctrines of men and those who are guided by FATHER Yahweh's spirit would not believe n "3 Gods", but would instead believe and confess that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh as Scripture clearly asks them to do. Also, they would not believe such foolishness as that one can be their own father and at the same time be their own son. They would believe that Yahsua came in the flesh as a man and not as a "God-Man" and that he was tempted as we are in every way, yet without sin, meaning that he was in obedience to his and our FATHER Yahweh instruction [torah, "law"]. They would follow Yahshua's example and also be obedient to FATHER Yahweh's instruction [torah, "law"]. They would also believe that Yahshiua had the same origin as all men and that he did not pre-exist his birth.

"For it was fitting that he [Yahweh], for Whom and by Whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to esteem, should make [Yahshua] the pioneer of their redemption perfect through suffering. For he [Yahshua] who sets apart and those who are set apart have all ONE ORIGIN. That is why he [Yahshua] is not ashamed to call them brethern, saying, I will proclaim Your Name [Yahweh's name] to my brethern, in the midst of the congregation I will praise You" (Heb. 2:10-12; Ps. 22:22 RSV - Edited).

Yahshua is my brother, not my "God."! Note that Yahshua says that in the midst of the congregation he will praise his and our FATHER Yahweh. What Yahshua said here proves without a doubt that he is not FATHER Yahweh ["God"]!

hisblud:

Briliant! Frosbel... Yes you have done a great job of bringing out scripture to defend your position, instead of avoiding questions. For me it is an honor to delve deeper to the word of God.

Now this throws up for you a deeper challenge, if Yashua, is according to the above verse been portrayed "LITERALLY" that He was the seed [sperma] of david, thus you are insinuating that Yashua cannot be the Second and Last Adam, because He would have sin in Him as Adam which was passed to Him. But God forbide!

Furthermore, if by your position, that Yashua is "LITERALLY" the seed of david, you are thus claiming that Yashua was a liar when He said this

Meaning what satan has a hold on the descendant of adam is becasue of SIN corruption, but of Yashua, NO SIN in Him!

Another problem arises, you would be denying the virgin birth of Christ, thus claiming that Joseph of the seed of david was His father... far far foul!


And this where we trinitarian have a strong base than you, in that we dont try to hide/mix/deny His Humanity with His Divinity when the scripture speaks of His Humanity in context and verse, we accept it; when it Speaks about His Divinity [God], we take it as been just that and NOTHING MORE but you on the other hand, have tried to recreate Him as just a mere man and nothing more, denying His Divinity.



Enigma, quote mk 12:35-37 for you and it seems you ignored it, i quote again the matthew version for you



where Yashua asked the pharasees how can He be david's Lord and at the same time Son of David, were they able to answer Him, except if you could try!

Thus you are in a real dilema to either accept that Yashua as born from the Seed [Sperma] of God or believe He was a mere man who had the sin of adam passed to Him via david from Joseph... For me God forbide.

The "Original Sin" doctrine is a false doctrine that is not taught in Scripture. We do not inherit sin from Adam and Eve!

"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment of the father's iniquity; nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be on himself." (Ezekiel 18:20; cf. vss. 19-32).

Many other passages also show the impossibility of transferring the guilt of sin (Yeremyah 31:27-30; Deuteronomy 24:16; Galatians 6:5).

shdemidemi:

I did not suggest Christ could be an image, I know Christ has always been the visible image of God from the beginning through scriptures. I don't see why I need the bible to tell me God's image did the walking and talking in that verse when I have been told through the secrets and mysteries revealed to Apostle Paul.




Ofcourse he has always been the image of the invisible God from the beginning (whenever that was), he didn't become the image when he came in the likeness of sinful flesh.




Did you get the question?

Only a visible image can appear according to the definition of the word 'appear'. So, who appeared in Gen18:1?

FATHER Yahweh! Did you get that answer this time? It seems that you missed the answer the last time!

Frank4YAHWEH:
The "Original Sin" doctrine is a false doctrine that is not taught in Scripture. We do not inherit sin from Adam and Eve!

Then who did we inherit it from? Or wait!! are you calling Paul a liar?

"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment of the father's iniquity; nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be on himself." (Ezekiel 18:20; cf. vss. 19-32).

Why don't you quote the scriptures about God visiting iniquities to the fourth and fifth generations based on my understanding this scriptures talks about punishment and not inheritance/visitation of sins or iniquities.This is poor bible studies on your part jare.

Many other passages also show the impossibility of transferring the guilt of sin (Yeremyah 31:27-30; Deuteronomy 24:16; Galatians 6:5)

. We are talking about Sin which is the nature of the Old man and not the guilt of sin/sins of men.SMH!





[/quote]

Frank4YAHWEH:

FATHER Yahweh! Did you get that answer this time? It seems that you missed the answer the last time!

'FATHER Yahweh' appeared as what, visible or invisible?

@ frank stop this non sense... the God told adam that the day you eat from that fruit is the day you will die... adam ate he did die. but not immediately... so we that didnt eat the fruit why are we dying? it means we inherit the curse of sin from adam thats why we old and die. stop falling down the stairs with your doctrine.

[img]http://www.theleagueofreason.co.uk/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6065&sid=c1dacba95b926d420f7e2c824a9574cc[/img]

Who was all things created for? The father or the son? you guys should ponder on this and see how you get around it.

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil (Prov. 16:4).
the above says that all things were made for YAHWEH

what does paul think about that? lets look are colossians
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him (Col. 1:16).
paul says it was created for Jesus here.

Then we have this passage:
So I said: 'Do not take me away, O my God, in the midst of my days; your years go on through all generations. In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded. But you remain the same, and your years will never end' (Psa. 102:24-27).

this is a problem for you guys that says Jesus is not God because this verse says the heaven is the works of his hand too:
But about the Son he says, Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom .... He also says, In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end (Heb. 1:8,10-12).

Psa. 102:24-27 is written about the eternal God, but the same Scripture is applied to Jesus in the NT! How can this be unless Jesus is YHWH?
you guys should ponder...

frosbel:

You are the one insinuating , presumptuously if I may add.

The bible says that Jesus is from the seed of David , if you don't agree with this , it's you prerogative .




Are you suggesting that Jesus is not the literal seed of David ? If yes , you are on a dangerous path of error and in direct contradiction to the inerrant word of God.

The sinlessness of Jesus was not because he was born without a propensity to sin , no , it was because he overcame temptation and sin in total obedience to his father , that is why sin was not found in him , because he did not obey the works of unrighteousness.



In my opinion you are coming across as quite presumptuous , with an unhealthy tendency to twist people's words rather than ask for clarification .



You have no strong base , your illogical dogma which defies the laws of mathematics is a mysterious farce which cannot stand up to the scrunity of scripture or human intelligence.

It is in fact an insult to our intelligence.

God is , has and always will be one indivisible being and Jesus the messiah , his Son.

To the bolded, what is the seed of david?