MacDaddy01:


You sef, wetin you dey find for isreal? Noahs ark?

MY ANCESTORS

obadiah777: MY ANCESTORS

Seriously, have you embraced any Jewish tradition?

MacDaddy01:

Seriously, have you embraced any Jewish tradition?

YES, THE BIBLE. THE BIBLE IS A TRADITION AND HISTORY OF MY ANCESTORS, AS WELL AS YOURS.

obadiah777: YES, THE BIBLE. THE BIBLE IS A TRADITION AND HISTORY OF MY ANCESTORS, AS WELL AS YOURS.

I am not jewish or edomite.

To answer the original question you have to look at it from a historical stand point and from a historical point of view the catholic church came before any other protestant denomination which were developed over 1500 years after the life of christ while the catholic church is much much older and i will give credit where its due the first five books are the Jewish Torah written by them

Bret77: To answer the original question you have to look at it from a historical stand point and from a historical point of view the catholic church came before any other protestant denomination which were developed over 1500 years after the life of christ while the catholic church is much much older and i will give credit where its due the first five books are the Jewish Torah written by them

you have been deceived by lies and as such you are confuse.

The OT was completed befor christ came and was written by prophets, judges, kings, and levits.

The NT are letters written by christ apostles and mark and luke are histories of christ and the apostles.

This apostles completed their writings withing the first century ce(1ce) and they all died off withing that period.

Stop beleiving lies.

The "Catholics" aka the Roman Catholics did not give us the Bible.

See https://www.nairaland.com/1039359/canon-bible-roman-catholic-church
https://www.nairaland.com/1101186/catholics-really-wants-make-heaven/1#12971283

and also

https://www.nairaland.com/1016132/catholic-position-dont-point/3#11813883
https://www.nairaland.com/1006902/friends-want-me-catholic-thoughts/7#11826930
https://www.nairaland.com/1057120/german-catholics-face-excommunication-over/2#12318807
https://www.nairaland.com/1083381/apostle-peter-principle-inclusivity-via/2#12707518


(Edited)

The Catholic Church gave us the Bible.

It doesn't matter which way you try to twist it.

It has never worked, it isn't working now, it never will.

Would this statement please everybody?

The bible was made by an Institution that today continues to exists as The Eastern Orthodox churches and the Roman Catholic Church. These institutions exist quite separately from the numerous other christian abominations, or is it denomination.

Of course the Catholic Church DID !

Note that the Bible is not in itself a BOOK, but A COLLECTION of books. These books were compiled by different scholars according to the directives and inspiration of the Holy Spirit. These books were GATHERED and CANONIZED by the Catholic Church in the Council of Rome in AD 382. It was by the Church's Authority, under the Pontificate of Pope Damasus I (AD 366-384)that the Bible we have today came to be bound together as one. The person who created this thread jumped too far mentioning "bible" everywhere, forgetting that these books were initially gathered before it was rendered into different languages by other scribes and scholars; that these books were in different scrolls and papyrus, and after the BINDING and CANONIZATION became known as THE BIBLE.

The thread was just a "copy and paste" work, with apparently little appreciation of history, punctuated by an incurable bias. Everyone who looks at history with a clear mind, recognizes the role the Catholic Church (Now Roman Catholic and Orthodox Catholic i.e. Western and Eastern Churches respectively) played in the proclamation and preservation of the Good news till today.

It is most laughable that People who live in 2012, think they know FOR CERTAIN what happened over 2000 years ago. I do not say i am certain either. But as reasonable men (if we actually are) when we are faced with two contrasting data about one particular historical issue, we are meant to go into serious research and not simply choose which one suits our taste and quickly jump out of our ignorance-soaked pillow and declare with other ignoramuses before us "We know 100 BCE" as though we were there.

Only people who willfully choose lies hide themselves from the Catholic Church's rays which penetrates even secular history and development.

There are many other things the Catholic Church gave YOUR (OTHER Churches)Church:

1. Going to Church on Sunday (Came from the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea, c. A.D. 337, You can find it in Canon 29 of the Council)
2. Celebrating Christmas ( Introduced first by Emperor Constantine and then made Universal by the Authority of Pope Julius I in 320 AD)
3. Celebration of Easter came as a diversion from the Pagan Worship of the Ancient people of ANCIENT Rome. The Church began to celebrate it as the Day of Christ's resurrection (The Day of the Lord)
4. Rings at weddings (Which was an ancient pagan symbol, Christianized by the Catholic Church around AD 860)

Men... Any Church man who denies the INDISPENSABILITY of the Catholic Church in the handing down of Christian texts, traditions and morals, is either biased (and We pray for them), ignorant (and we wish they learn) or just a self-made dummy (and this has no cure).

I pray Nigerians begin to watch the white men argue, even those with conflicting points acknowledge historical data. Here in Nigeria Pentecostals simply HIDE their faces when they see "Catholic" and "Good" together, they capitalize on "Catholic" and a tentative "Bad" and from there create many illogical statements that only reveal their biases.

Mtchew !

^^^ Not to forget the preservation of ancient greek and latin texts from Classical times that would have been lost during the dark ages. The resurgence of these texts into the secular world kick helped to kick start the renaissance and the modern rise of Science.

materxxdxa: Of course the Catholic Church DID !

Note that the Bible is not in itself a BOOK, but A COLLECTION of books. These books were compiled by different scholars according to the directives and inspiration of the Holy Spirit. These books were GATHERED and CANONIZED by the Catholic Church in the Council of Rome in AD 382. It was by the Church's Authority, under the Pontificate of Pope Damasus I (AD 366-384)that the Bible we have today came to be bound together as one. . . .

Re red-bolded

FALSE! The Roman Catholic Church only fools ignorant people with this falsehood.

First of all, waaaay before there was such a thing as "The Catholic Church" Origen and others had already put together all the books that make up today's Bible. They were already preserved.

Second, the claims about Damasus is another falsehood; in fact a fraud. Look, even Roman Catholic defenders here like chukwudi44 and Italo have been very careful not to use the Damasus falsehood. Their argument is based on the African synods of Hippo and Carthage. I assume it is because they know that the fraudulent claims about Damasus can be easily exposed.

Let me leave a bonus here http://truthsaves.org/doctrine/bible-from-catholics.shtml

Enigma:

Re red-bolded

FALSE! The Roman Catholic Church only fools ignorant people with this falsehood.

First of all, waaaay before there was such a thing as "The Catholic Church" Origen and others had already put together all the books that make up today's Bible. They were already preserved.

Second, the claims about Damasus is another falsehood; in fact a fraud. Look, even Roman Catholic defenders here like chukwudi44 and Italo have been very careful not to use the Damasus falsehood. Their argument is based on the African synods of Hippo and Carthage. I assume it is because they know that the fraudulent claims about Damasus can be easily exposed.

Let me leave a bonus here http://truthsaves.org/doctrine/bible-from-catholics.shtml

Why did the name "Catholic Church" come to be? Is it not because of people who would fight Orthodoxy in the name of being touched by the Holy Spirit or even sometimes knowing better than an entire council of over 300 LEARNED AND HOLY BISHOPS. These men (like Arius and other heretics) founded their own churches so there was need to differentiate between "small-sect churches" and the "Universal" Church. The Universal Church remains the Rock from which these crumbs (other smaller churches) have fallen. Only this Church has direct trace back to the Apostles (with the Orthodox Church of the East). If you say this is false, then i ask you, is it the Redeemed Christian Church? Or Christ Embassy? Or SCOAN?

IF you say none, i ask you, was there a time in history when Christianity VANISHED and resurfaced?

There is no point arguing over obvious facts, Rome was the foundation of Christianity being the first great Empire to give the Christian message a place in their land (after the active persecution by Emperor Nero and passive persecution of successors), from thence it spread throughout the world, which is the simplest explanation why Rome remains the Headquarters of the Catholic (Universal) Church.

Apostolicity is one of the KEY signs of the true Church, none is found in other Churches (though this does not mean they are not of God at all, but they have none of the Magisterial Authority of the Apostles)

Some of you here who claim to be scholars are guilty of blaspheming history. Reading texts written by individuals whose personal lives are unknown to you. When you wish to study, strike a balance b/w authors/historians you love (in this case people who HATE the Catholic Church) and Historians you HATE (in this case those who were Catholics or at least people who have written without obvious bias).

I Do not claim to know more than anyone, i only wish to pass on a vital message: In historical disputes, don't claim to be TOO certain, even when you meet a contrasting (but HISTORICAL) data. Such opposing data was also written like yours, widely read and believed like yours, have names and dates like yours. So how are you certain which between yours and the other is correct?

You cannot judge history from hatred of the Most Ancient Christian Community, Can you?

@ Enigma,

First you qouted St. Ignatius as saying "where Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church."

...And St. Ignatius around 100AD.

Then you said this:

Enigma:
First of all, waaaay before there was such a thing as "The Catholic Church" Origen and others had already put together all the books that make up today's Bible. They were already preserved.

...And Origen was born in 185AD.

So did Origen put together all the books of the Bible long before his own birth?

it all depends on what you understood from the thread.

The issue i am concern with is that the writers of the NT are apostles of christ (mark and luke are history and not teachings)

when it is said that RCC "gave us" the bible the notion is that they wrote the books of the bible which is wrong.

That you bind some ones literally work does not make that work your own.

However, since i extracted this piece from your write up i will let it be for now.

materxxdxa:

Note that the Bible is not in itself a BOOK, but A COLLECTION of books. These books were compiled by different scholars according to the directives and inspiration of the Holy Spirit. These books were GATHERED and CANONIZED

but the truth about the NT is that it is made up of letters and teaching of the apostles of christ and not really a " work of different scholars" as you said.

We cannot not Just refer to the apostles of christ as just "scholars"

this were men that were given to christ by his father and not just any how "men" or "scholars".

@ truthislight,

What is the "Catholic Church" and when did it come into existence?

This enigma guy is very confused.first of all enigma was a catholic so any canon done by him would still be credited to the catholic church.

Secondly origen's canon was not adopted by the church as some of the books found in his canon were later rejected.

The first christian 'canon' was actually compiled by the great heretic Marcion of sinope.His heretical canon was never even considered by the catholic church and disapeared after his death and dispearance of his sect.

italo: @ Enigma,

First you qouted St. Ignatius as saying "where Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church."

...And St. Ignatius around 100AD.

Then you said this:

...And Origen was born in 185AD.

So did Origen put together all the books of the Bible long before his own birth?

Ah, this is quite simple and is the same point I have been making all this while.

What Ignatius meant by "Catholic Church" is different from what the Roman Catholic Church and Roman Catholic apologists are now calling "The Catholic Church".

Note the following distinctions:

1. As far as Ignatius was concerned each Church wherever was complete and universal, therefore = catholic. BUT now the Roman Catholics disgaree with that; they say for a church to be "Catholic" it must submit to the authority of the Roman Catholic "pope". Ignatius said or recognised no such thing!

2. Ignatius said wherever Jesus is there is the "Catholic Church"; we also know that wherever two or three are gathered in Jesus' name, there Jesus is. BUT the Roman Catholic Church disagrees with both Ignatius and Jesus or at least sees things differently! The Roman Catholic Church says that if two or three people are gathered in Jesus' name (and therefore Jesus IS there), they are still not part of the "The Catholic Church" aka the Roman Catholic Church as long as they do not submit to the "supreme authority" of the Roman Catholic "pope"!

So let me give you two scenarios:

Scenario A

Ade, Uche and Isa all believe in Jesus. They do not belong to any denomination or abomination; they frequently meet to pray and 'fellowship'. Well, Jesus says He is with them; BUT the Roman Catholic Church says they are not part of "The Catholic Church". In fact the Roman Catholic Church says they are "anathema"! Ade, Uche & Isa say: 'well we don't care about "The Catholic Church"; we are more than happy to be part of the catholic Church instead'.

Scenario B

Akinkunmi from Sabo Baptist Church travels to Aswan in Egypt. He evangelises and converts Ahmed, Farouk and Rilwan of Aswan to Christianity. After Akinkunmi returns to Nigeria, Ahmed, Farouk and Rilwan meet regularly to pray and 'fellowship' together. Jesus says He is with them. BUT the Roman Catholic church says that those Egyptian fellas are not part of "The Catholic Church". Other christians like Enigma who hear about those people say 'who cares what Roman Catholics say that those fellas are not part of "The Catholic Church"? What matters is that they are part of the catholic Church!'

Simples

Now a test for you: when did "The Catholic Church" come into existence?

@italo

I think it is better you ignore this Arrow. He is obviously high on ganja.

italo: @ truthislight,

What is the "Catholic Church" and when did it come into existence?

what ?
*sigh*

if i should tell you "what is" you will not wish to engage me again.

truthislight:

what ?
*sigh*

if i should tell you "what is" you will not wish to engage me again.

At least you would have made a fool of yourself.

You cannot know if the Catholic Church gave the world the Bible or not if you don't know what the Catholic Church is.

And the Catholic church gave us CHRISTMAS as well! Make una go jump into River Niger i beg!