mkmyers45: Who put the scripture together? Is the book of Enoch scripture?

truthislight:

put together?

^^^ this words can mean many things to different people.

mkmyers45: What is your argument?

truthislight:

that the questions you are asking are not necessary to determined how we got the bible.

truthislight:

put together?

^^^ this words can mean many things to different people.

chukwudi44: 41. truthislight: Quote Post

chukwudi44:
However, the early churches knew what they had to be genuine and they held on/pass it along.

Please which group of people made up these early church?

Do you mind telling me any member of this church who lived in the second,third and fourth centuries

truthislight:

how relevant is this question?

So after the apostles/paul travelled through out Asia minor opening congregations they all later transform to RCC?

Jesus words to the seven(7) churches that are in the district of Asia Rev 1:4

the seat of older men was in Jerusalem acts 15:2

there where congregation in syria and Cilicia acts 15:23

there were congregation in Greece

even most names of the books of the NT are names of cities that had churches

in fact they are so many that i dont need external sources.

Seven churches
1. Ephesus
2. Smyr-na
3. Perga-mum
4. Thya-a-tira
5. Sardis
6. Phila-delphia
7. Lao-o-di-cea
Rev 1:11

there are so many just to mansion few.

IV. Ignatius

Ignatius reportedly lived somewhere between 30 - 107 AD, and it is said that he was a bishop in Antioch, that is, a Catholic bishop. In his epistle to the Smyrnaeans, Ignatius writes,

Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. (The Ante Nicene Fathers, vol. I, p. 90, chap. VIII, entitled "LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP " )

Let no one deceive you with empty words (2 Peter 2:18), when Ignatius writes "Catholic Church" he means just that, the unholy Roman Catholic Church (e.g., see below, under VII. Irenaeus). Ignatius taught the false gospel and false Christ of the Eucharist (see our report Roman Catholicism Leads To Hell, III. A False Christ). In his epistle to the Ephesians, Ignatius writes,

. . . so that ye obey the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but [which causes] that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ. (ibid., p. 58, chap. XX)

In his epistle to the Smyrnaeans, Ignatius likewise writes,

They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. (ibid., p. 89, chap. VII)

The above is classic Roman Catholic Eucharistic false doctrine. In the two quotes above, Ignatius makes the Eucharist out to be the Savior and that which will save a soul and grant eternal life. The only bread and blood that can save the soul and grant eternal life is the spiritual bread and blood of the real Lord Jesus Christ (John 6:35, 53, 63). Despite the false claim of the hocus-pocus of Catholic mystical incantations (transubstantiation), fleshly bread (flour and water) and literal wine will save no one ("the flesh profits nothing," John 6:63).

Furthermore, Ignatius promoted a serious submission to the Catholic bishop. In his epistle to the Trallians (shorter version), Ignatius writes,

He that is within the altar is pure, but he that is without is not pure; that is, he who does anything apart from the bishop, and presbytery, and deacons, such a man is not pure in his conscience. (ibid., p. 69, chap. VII)

In his epistle to the Philadelphians he writes,

Do nothing without the bishop; . . . (ibid., p. 84, chap. VII)

In his epistle to the Magnesians he writes,

As therefore the Lord did nothing without the Father, being united to Him, neither by Himself nor by the apostles, so neither do ye anything without the bishop and presbyters. (ibid., p. 62, chap. VII, entitled, "DO NOTHING WITHOUT THE BISHOP AND PRESBYTERS " )

In his epistle to the Smyrnaeans he writes,

It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid. (ibid., p. 90, chap. VIII)

Scripture nowhere dictates who may baptize or who may celebrate a love-feast (Proverbs 4:20-27; 30:5-6). Plus, Ignatius exalts the bishop here to Pope-like status claiming "whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God."

Ignatius further writes,

It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil. (ibid., chap. IX)

Scripture indeed teaches that believers are to give honor to and be subject to those who rule over them (1 Thessalonians 5:12-13a; ;1 Timothy 5:17; Hebrews 13:7, 17). But, Ignatius takes this way beyond what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6) and adds to the Word of God (Proverbs 30:5-6).

Earlier in the epistle to the Magnesians, Ignatius writes,

. . . your bishop presides in the place of God . . . (p. 61, chap. VI)

In his epistle to the Ephesians he writes,

Now the more any one sees the bishop keeping silence, the more ought he to revere him. For we ought to receive every one whom the Master of the house sends to be over His household, as we would do Him that sent him. It is manifest, therefore, that we should look upon the bishop even as we would upon the Lord Himself. (ibid., p. 51, chap. VI)

This is idolatry! Believers look to the Lord in worship (Isaiah 45:22; John 20:28; Hebrews 12:2). To look to any man as "we would upon the Lord Himself" is idolatry. Therefore, in this alone, Ignatius promotes a damning lie (Revelation 21:8 ).

Finally, in his epistle to the Smyrnaeans (shorter version), Ignatius confuses faith in the blood of Christ with the angels.

Let no man deceive himself. Both the things which are in heaven, and the glorious angels, and rulers, both visible and invisible, if they believe not in the blood of Christ, shall, in consequence, incur condemnation. (ibid., p.88, chap. VI)

Scripture nowhere says the above, and the blood of Christ is not for the angels. Hebrews 2:14-16 declares,

Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.

http://www.atruechurch.info/earlychurchfathers.html

chukwudi44:

Honestly when I said you should stop making a fool of yourself you should have taken my advice.After the apostles died did the church disapear? Did they not groom successors?
Who were the major christian leaders of the second,third and fourth centuries

chukwudi44: Still on the eucharist.St ignatius was a direct disciple of the apostles.He had the special privilege of having me and learned from the apostles.He was also the third bishop of antioch after st peter and evodius.He wrote this in is letter to the smyrneans written in 110 CE.

Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God ... They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.

St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, 8:1, 110 A.D.

truthislight:

how is what you are saying translating to catholics writing the bible?

If you had red my earlier post i had said that catholics only put a stamp on scriptures that were already in existance,

you seem to love intimidation.

This are books that were already in existance and were being made use of.

How can RCC then turn out to be the writers of the bible?

Putting a stamp on those books and saying this are the original does not translate to mean that catholics gave any body the bible.

This is a very clear thing

Bible they dont make use of even.

This is becoming a circular reasoning.

frosbel:


They need prayer, I was once a catholic and a general secretary for their youth fellowship a few years ago.

They are so blind, it can only take the grace and mercy of God to remove the thick veil that has been placed over their eyes.

They put tradition over God's word.

mkmyers45: Full hypocrisy and outright hating on display

frosbel:

You know there is only one step from you calling people haters to actually killing them

This is exactly what the catholic church did to anyone and everyone who disagreed with their church doctrine. They first of all declared them heretics , gave them a window of opportunity to repent and if this was rejected , hunted them down and killed , tortured or incarcerated them.

chukwudi44: You keep shouting early xtians were persecuted just give me a name you have failed to do so you keep blabbing.

Give me just one name of an early xtian who lived in the second,third and fourth centuries

frosbel:

You know there is only one step from you calling people haters to actually killing them

This is exactly what the catholic church did to anyone and everyone who disagreed with their church doctrine. They first of all declared them heretics , gave them a window of opportunity to repent and if this was rejected , hunted them down and killed , tortured or incarcerated them.

frosbel:

Peter was not the Bishop of Rome, this is wishful thinking on the part of the catholic church.

Based on what I know about Ignatius he must have been a false prophet.

I mean common, who am I supposed to believe , Ignatius or Christ ? So I should take what Ignatius says hook line and sinker because he was a pope like figure in the church ?

You see , this is why you are deceived, because you refuse to humble yourself , ask God for wisdom and read his word in the light of his revelation to you not through some more worthier than thou person that the catholic church venerates.

Not a surprise anyway, the catholic church has perfected the art of Venerating some of the most despicable men who ever lived.

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!" - Galatians 1:8

"For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough." - 2 Corinthians 11:4

frosbel:

I can give you dozens of names and go even further, but what's the point, you have hardened your heart to the true Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and elevated the traditions and fallibility of men's doctrines over and above very words of GOD , those spoken through Christ.

Only God can help you now.

There is no salvation in the RCC, salvation can only be found in CHRIST.

One would have thought that after the recent church scandals, financial improprieties , s.exual escapades with little boys and so on and so forth, your leadership would have learnt a lesson or two in humility before God. Instead they seem to get worse and worse by the day.

chukwudi44:

St ignatius is now a false prophet because he does not agree with your own view of the euchaurist.st ignatius was privileged to have lived with the apostles and thus had the opportunity of hearing the true teaching of the apostles.I would rather listen to such a great man than listen to you.His life was a fitting testimony to the true xtian faith.He proved that with his life as he was killed by being fed to lions for his fearless proclaimation of the faith

frosbel:

On the contrary, because he does not agree with scripture.

Have you heard about the berean Jews who even investigated Paul's doctrines to make sure that they were biblically accurate, well learn from them and stop following men.

frosbel:

On the contrary, because he does not agree with scripture.

Have you heard about the berean Jews who even investigated Paul's doctrines to make sure that they were biblically accurate, well learn from them and stop following men.

truthislight:

True talk my friend.

Without following the bible how can they be the true christians showing quality of christianity that christ is looking for possible?

They RCC/ISLAM are not using the bible but are doing the same things cus they dont follow the bible the true word of God.

I do wander, which of this two started this thing of killing and beheading/burning people?
Anyhow, i know the answer.

Imagine! None of the early christians even retaliated let alone kill their fellow human.

This set has created a whole lot of crises in christianity,
Upon that they are sitting at the head!

Are they showing the fruitage of true christianity? No

By their fruit ye shall recognise them Jesus said.

frosbel:

You know there is only one step from you calling people haters to actually killing them

This is exactly what the catholic church did to anyone and everyone who disagreed with their church doctrine. They first of all declared them heretics , gave them a window of opportunity to repent and if this was rejected , hunted them down and killed , tortured or incarcerated them.

Religious practices

Sacrificing to gods other than YHWH[2][3]
Passing children through the fire to/as [MLK]. The triconsonantal root MLK has traditionally been translated as if it were the name of an otherwise unattested deity - Moloch - but may just describe a type of sacrifice. It is generally thought that this refers to a form of Human sacrifice similar to that of which the Phoenicians (particularly in Carthage) have historically been widely accused[4] However, the Septuagint reads "You shall not give your seed to serve a ruler", suggesting that the root M-L-K should be more properly rendered as 'king/ruler'.
Worshiping Baal Peor[5]
False prophecy[6][7][8]
Necromancy, according to the masoretic text; specifically those who are masters over ghosts (Hebrew: Ba'al ob) and those who gain information from the dead (Hebrew: Yidde'oni).[9] The Septuagint instead condemns gastromancy (Greek: eggastrimuthos), and enchantment (Greek: epaoidos).[10]
According to the masoretic text, practitioners of kashaph[11] - incanting maleficium. According to the Septuagint version of the same passages, pharmakeia[12] - poisoners. Historically this passage has been translated into English using vague terminology, condemning witchcraft in general.[13]
Blasphemy[14]
Sabbath breaking[15][16][17]
[edit]Sexual practices

Rape by a man of a betrothed woman in the countryside[18]
Being either participant in consensual sexual activity, in which a betrothed woman consensually loses her virginity to a man[19]
Adultery with a married woman.[20]
Marrying your wife's mother[21]
Certain forms of incest, namely if it involves the father's wife or a daughter-in-law.[22] Other forms of incest receive lesser punishment; sexual activity with a sister/stepsister is given excommunication for a punishment;[23] if it involves a brother's wife or an uncle's wife it is just cursed[24] and sexual activity with an aunt that is a blood relation is merely criticized.[25]
Certain activities with a male (Hebrew: zakhar) involving what the masoretic text literally terms lay layings woman (Hebrew: tishkav mishkvei ishah),[26][27] and the Septuagint literally terms beds [verb] the woman's/wife's bed (Greek: koimethese koiten gynaikos);[28][29] the gender of the target of the command is commonly understood to be male, but not explicitly stated. The correct translation and interpretation of this passage, and its implications for Homosexuality in Judaism and Homosexuality in Christianity, are controversial. Translations into English are wide-ranging.[30][31]
Bestiality[32][33]
[edit]Miscellaneous

Murder, believed by Jews to apply to believing non-Jews, or (Noachides) as well[34][35][36][37]
Smiting a parent[38]
Cursing (i.e. repudiating) a parent[39][40]
A son who persists in disobeying his parents[41]
Kidnapping[42][43]
Contempt of court[44]
False witness to a capital crime[45

Pastor AIO:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_capital_crimes_in_the_Torah

Pastor AIO: It is easy to sit aloof on a high chair and point the finger at the Catholic Church, but the church is made of human beings. And human beings err. Even immediately after anointing Peter as the foundation of his church Jesus has cause to call him 'Satan'. Does that mean that Jesus didn't know what he was doing when he said, " on this rock I will build my church".

frosbel:

I do not play games with words or the truth.

While men do err, and I have many a time, we are talking about an institution that was not only built on falsehood ,but has led to the death of countless millions, including so called heretics, underground churches, Muslims during the crusades , Jews and many others.

If you really want us to believe that this is a church sanctioned by Christ you have certainly 'missed road'.

frosbel:

On the contrary, because he does not agree with scripture.

Have you heard about the berean Jews who even investigated Paul's doctrines to make sure that they were biblically accurate, well learn from them and stop following men.

MacDaddy01:


And if you believe ay modern church is better, then you have "missed road" as well.


All modern churches are descendants to the catholic church. By doctrine of original sin, you cant distance yourself from them. The only churches that can claim not to be a descendant of the catholic church are orthodox churches which unfortunately have become more allied with the catholic church.


Furthermore, the bible was compiled by the catholic church. The arrangement and numbering. That is a fact that modern protestant want to forget but it is impossible to overlook.