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| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 12:29pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
chukwudi44: I know the catholic church in and out, you do not rely solely on the bible but church tradition which is mostly heretical anyway. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 12:34pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
chukwudi44: You keep shouting early xtians were persecuted just give me a name you have failed to do so you keep blabbing. What has that to do with the bible? The name you want is it mention in the bible or he is it author? Keep deceiving youself that the bible belong to RCC for all i care. You will be there shouting while the kingdom of God you are not expecting has passed you. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 12:34pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
It is allowed to no one else to participate in that food which we call Eucharist except the one who believes that the things taught by us are true, who has been cleansed in the washing unto rebirth and the forgiveness of sins and who is living according to the way Christ handed on to us. For we do not take these things as ordinary bread or ordinary drink. Just as our Savior Jesus Christ was made flesh by the word of God and took on flesh and blood for our salvation, so also were we taught that the food, for which thanksgiving has been made through the word of prayer instituted by him, and from which our blood and flesh are nourished after the change, is the flesh of that Jesus who was made flesh. Indeed, the Apostles, in the records left by them which are called gospels, handed on that it was commanded to them in this manner: Jesus, having taken bread and given thanks said, ``Do this in memory of me, this is my body.'' Likewise, having taken the cup and given thanks, he said, ``This is my blood'', and he gave it to them alone. The Sunday Assembly Furthermore, after this we always remind one another of these things. Those who have the means aid those who are needy, and we are always united. Over everything which we take to ourselves we bless the Creator of the universe through His Son Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit. On the day called after the sun [Sunday] there is a meeting for which all those dwelling in the cities or in the countryside come together. The records of the Apostles or the writings of the prophets are read as long as time allows. When the reader has stopped, the one who is presiding admonishes and encourages us by a sermon to the imitation of those good examples. Then we all stand up together and lift up our prayers and, as I said previously, when we have finished our prayer, bread is brought forth and wine and water. The one who is presiding offers up prayers and thanksgiving according to his ability and the people acclaim their assent with ``Amen.'' There is the distribution of and participation on the part of each one in the gifts for which thanks has been offered, and they are sent to those who are not present through the deacons. We all come together on the day of the sun since it is the first day, on which God changed darkness and matter and made the world. On that day, Jesus Christ our Savior arose from the dead. They crucified him on the day preceding that of Saturn, and on the day of the sun he appeared to his Apostles and disciples and taught them these things which we have presented also to you for inspection. St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, [5,2,2] 180 A.D. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 12:44pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
No one may share the Eucharist with us unless he believes that what we teach is true, unless he is washed in the regenerating waters of baptism for the remission of his sins, and unless he lives in accordance with the principles given us by Christ. We do not consume the eucharistic bread and wine as if it were ordinary food and drink, for we have been taught that as Jesus Christ our Saviour became a man of flesh and blood by the power of the Word of God, so also the food that our flesh and blood assimilates for its nourishment becomes the flesh and blood of the incarnate Jesus by the power of his own words contained in the prayer of thanksgiving. The apostles, in their recollections, which are called gospels, handed down to us what Jesus commanded them to do. They tell us that he took bread, gave thanks and said: Do this in memory of me. This is my body. In the same way he took the cup, he gave thanks and said: This is my blood. The Lord gave this command to them alone. Ever since then we have constantly reminded one another of these things. The rich among us help the poor and we are always united. For all that we receive we praise the Creator of the universe through his Son Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit. On Sunday we have a common assembly of all our members, whether they live in the city or the outlying districts. The recollections of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as there is time. When the reader has finished, the president of the assembly speaks to us; he urges everyone to imitate the examples of virtue we have heard in the readings. Then we all stand up together and pray. On the conclusion of our prayer, bread and wine and water are brought forward. The president offers prayers and gives thanks to the best of his ability, and the people give assent by saying, “Amen”. The eucharist is distributed, everyone present communicates, and the deacons take it to those who are absent. The wealthy, if they wish, may make a contribution, and they themselves decide the amount. The collection is placed in the custody of the president, who uses it to help the orphans and widows and all who for any reason are in distress, whether because they are sick, in prison, or away from home. In a word, he takes care of all who are in need. We hold our common assembly on Sunday because it is the first day of the week, the day on which God put darkness and chaos to flight and created the world, and because on that same day our saviour Jesus Christ rose from the dead. For he was crucified on Friday and on Sunday he appeared to his apostles and disciples and taught them the things that we have passed on for your consideration. ~first Apology of st Justin matyr |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 12:45pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
mkmyers45: lol..you are funny arent ya? Wonder what will have happened if the RCC had not repeled ottoman attacks... ^^^ You dont need force or retaliation to preach the gospel, otherwise, knife/sword will have been usefull in Jesus/peter's case in the garden. Take note: "paul planted, Appolos watered, but God keep makingt it grow" the bible says. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 12:49pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
chukwudi44:^^^ Is he now greater than what the bible says?  Tradition tradition tradition. Hmmm! That says it all. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 12:51pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
St justin matyr was also matyred by the roman authourities in 150CE.he equally beleived the eucharist was the real body and blood of christ. So frosbel it is now over to you to show me quotations from early xtians who share your opinions of the eucharist |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 12:53pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
MacDaddy01:Yes |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 12:54pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
truthislight: Where in the bible did it say the eucharist is not the real body and blood of christ |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 1:22pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
MacDaddy01: The Beroean where very spiritually minded. They question the words of apostle paul and went back to cross checked if what paul was sayings tally with the scriptures/prophecy(NT) They became christians and stood for the truth. Acts 17:10-12 |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 1:31pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
The matyrdom of st ignatius who frosbel calls a false prophet.A true and fearless ambassador of the xtian faith. Ignatius of Antioch, also called Theophorus, that is, one that carries God, lived in the first century of the Church. He was a disciple of the apostles, particularly of St John; by them he was baptized, and subsequently ordained Bishop of the Church of Antioch which had the honor of having been founded by the Apostle St. Peter, and as the place where the disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Christians. St Ignatius of Antioch undertook the government of this church after the death of Evodius, the successor of St Peter, which occurred in the year of the Lord 69. Our saint governed his flock with such zeal that all the churches of Syria consulted him as an oracle. In the persecution of Domitian he had to suffer much, and labored, at the risk of his life, for the preservation of the faith, animating his flock to be faithful to the death. St Ignatius of Antioch longed for the glory of martyrdom, frequently saying that he could not be persuaded of his love for Christ till he had testified it with his blood. Upon the death of Domitian in the year 96, the tempest abated under Nerva, his successor. But during this time heretics did not cease to trouble the Church; this is the reason why the saint, writing to the faithful of Smyrna, recommended them not to have any communication with them: “Be satisfied,” he said to them, “with merely praying to God for those who abstain from the Eucharist, because they deny it to be the flesh of Jesus Christ, who died for our sins.” In the year 105 the persecution was renewed by the Emperor Trajan. This prince, after his conquest of the Scythians and the Dacians, published an edict which obliged all, under pain of death, to offer sacrifice to the gods. Marching afterwards against the Parthians, he arrived at Antioch; and, hearing with how much zeal and success St Ignatius propagated the Christian religion, he called him to his presence and thus addressed St Ignatius of Antioch thusly: “Art thou that wicked demon called Theophorus, who taketh pleasure in violating our edict of sacrificing to the gods, and dost continue to seduce the inhabitants of this city by preaching the law of Christ?” Saint Ignatius replied: “Yes, prince, I am called Theophorus; by no one can Theophorus be called a demon, because the devils fly from the servants of God. If thou callest me a devil because I endeavor to defeat the machinations of the devil, I well deserve the name.” Trajan asked St Ignatius the signification of the term Theophorus; the saint replied: “It signifies ‘the bearer of God.’” The emperor replied: “Thou carriest God in thy heart; and we, have we not also in ourselves the gods that assist us?” St Ignatius of Antioch answered with enthusiasm: “It is an error, O prince! To give the name of gods to the demons that you adore: there is only one true God, the Creator of heaven and earth, and Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son.” The emperor replied, “Dost thou speak of Him who was crucified under Pontius Pilate?” “Yes,” answered the saint, “of Him I speak who has confounded the malice of devils, and placed them beneath the feet of those Christians who carry God in their hearts.” St Ignatius of Antioch added that Trajan would be more happy, and his empire more prosperous, if he would believe in the Lord Jesus; but the emperor, heedless of these exhortations, offered to make him a priest of Jupiter and a member of the senate if he would sacrifice to the gods. The saint replied that he was content to be a priest of Jesus Christ, for whom he ardently desired to shed his blood. Trajan, filled with anger, then pronounced the sentence upon the saint-that he should be conducted in chains to Rome, and devoured by be wild beasts at the public games. St Ignatius of Antioch, having heard the sentence, raised his eyes to heaven, and exclaimed: “I thank Thee, O Lord, because that Thou hast vouchsafed to make me worthy of giving Thee a proof of my love by sacrificing my life for Thy faith; I desire, O Lord, that the beasts may hasten to devour me, that I may make to Thee the sacrifice of myself.” St Ignatius of Antioch then stretched forth his hands to be chained, kissing the manacles as they bound him; and with tears recommending his church to God, he was conducted by the soldiers to Seleucia, and thence to Smyna, accompanied by two of his deacons, Philo and Agathopodus, who are believed to be the authors of his acts. Wherever the saint passed, he ceased not his exhortations to the faithful to persevere in faith and prayer, to be enamored of the riches of heaven, and to despise those of this earth. The Christians came, in great numbers, to meet St Ignatius of Antioch and to receive his blessing, especially the bishops and priests of the churches of Asia, who, as they perceived him going so joyfully to martyrdom, wept in the tenderness of affection. Having arrived at Smyrna, he embraced St Polycarp, and they mutually consoled each other; he thence wrote to the churches of Ephesus, Magnesia, and Trallia. Amongst other things, he says to the Ephesians: “I carry my chains for Christ, which are to me spiritual pearls, more prized than all the treasures of the world.” Knowing that from Smyrna some Ephesians had to go to Rome by a route shorter than his, St Ignatius of Antioch conveyed by them his celebrated letter to the Romans; the letter is long, but a few passages are particularly worthy of being transcribed; they are as follows: “Suffer me to be the food of wild beasts, whereby I may attain unto God. I am the wheat of God, and am to be ground by the teeth of wild beasts, in order that I may be found the pure bread of Christ…I earnestly wish for the wild beasts that are prepared for me, whom I heartily desire may soon dispatch me; I will entice them to devour me entirely and suddenly, that they may not spare me as they have others whom they feared to touch; but, if they are unwilling to meddle with me, I will even compel them to it. Pardon me, my children, I know what is good for me; I now commence to be a disciple of Christ, since I have no desire for anything visible or invisible, so that I may attain to Jesus Christ. Let fire or the cross, or the concourse of wild beasts-let cutting or tearing of the flesh-let breaking of bones and cutting off limbs-let the shattering in pieces of my entire body, and all the torments invented by the devil, come upon me, so I may but attain unto Jesus Christ… It is better for me to die for the sake of Jesus Christ, than to rule to the ends of the earth…Pardon me, brethren; be not my hindrance in attaining to life, for Jesus Christ is the life of the faithful; whilst I desire to belong to God, do not ye yield me back to the world… Permit me to imitate the Passion of Christ my God; let none of you who are present attempt to succor me-be rather on my side, that is, on God’s; entertain no desire of the world; having Jesus Christ in your mouths, let no envy find place in your breasts. Even were I myself to entreat you, when present, do not obey me, but rather believe what I now signify to you by letter… My love is crucified!... I take no pleasure in the food of corruption, nor in the enjoyment of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, and for drink his blood… Pray for me, that I may possess God. If I consummate my sacrifice this will be a sign that you have given your consent, and that ye truly love me.” He next arrived at Troas, whence he wrote epistles to the churches of Philadelphia and Smyrna, and to his friend St Polycarp, to whom he recommended the church of Antioch. The soldiers fearing that they would arrive too late at Rome, because the public games were nearly at an end, hastened their march, to the great satisfaction of the holy martyr, who ardently desired to be at the place of execution. When he was near Rome, the Christians came in great numbers to meet and salute him. They thought, as Fleury relates, ‘to induce the people to solicit his pardon, but the saint repeated what he had stated in his letters, and prevented all interference.’ On entering Rome, he knelt down with the other Christians to offer himself to God, and fervently prayed that peace might be restored to the Church. St Ignatius of Antioch was then conducted to the amphitheatre, where immense numbers were assembled; and, hearing the bellowing of the wild beasts, he repeated the memorable words of the epistle to the Romans: “I am the wheat of God, and am to be ground by the teeth of wild beasts, in order that I may be found the pure bread of Christ.”  St Ignatius of Antioch was instantly devoured by lions, as he had desired to be, and at the moment of his death he was heard to invoke the adorable name of Jesus. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 1:39pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
Pastor AIO: It is easy to sit aloof on a high chair and point the finger at the Catholic Church, but the church is made of human beings. And human beings err. Even immediately after anointing Peter as the foundation of his church Jesus has cause to call him 'Satan'. Does that mean that Jesus didn't know what he was doing when he said, " on this rock I will build my church".^^^ If this is the way that the RCC quote the bible at all instance and sees it as God's word and had let human have access to it from the 11ce's all will have been fine and well. There will have been no way that all the confusion all around today will have been possible. Cause the warning is all there in the bible. 2thessalonian 2:3-12 The warning was clear in the bible that after the death of the apostles that acted as a restrain against apostasy, after the apostles death apostacy will come up and mislead christians. No, the RCC abandone the bible and stock to tradition and committed all sort of atrocities and is now coming to tell people they own the bible! Hypocrite!!! |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Sweetnecta: 2:01pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
@pastor aio; by Pastor AIO: 11:42amword for church in the language of Jesus please [aramaic or syriac]? A satan as the rock of church that Jesus will build. interesting. Please take a closer look at the passages.why the bold? one will remember that this peter guy was the satan dwelling. at the same time God is revealing the unknown to him? where is purification first? i say this story does not add up. Jesus knew who he was and his God is Ellah no Jehovah or Yahweh. 21From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. 22And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord!e This shall never happen to you.” 23But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrancef to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”i already dealt with the peter the satan. but i am wondering if the bold was not 3 nights and 3 days? please let us know. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 3:27pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
MacDaddy01: young man, you are simply restating what jesus christ had already said in matthew 13:27,28 that even men were at sleep an enemy went to the field and sowed weed were Jesus (master) had sowed wheat but while men were at sleep an enemy went and corrupted the faith. Jesus then said that the two should be let to grow together that at the end angels will do the harvesting. Ma friend, the false hood that is being taught and their actions have turned away many people from God. People lives are at stake, till people come to know the truth and break away from this false hood and there pegan doctrine alot of people the majority of human will die. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 3:39pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
chukwudi44: after the apostles had died. 2thess 2:3-5 the apostles were the restrained against apostacy. That is why he is quoting human^^^^ instead of the bible. Like the date he is giving is a date after the death of the apostles= 180AD Ireneaus. The apostles were first century ce. Christ died 33. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 3:49pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
chukwudi44: No one may share the Eucharist with us unless he believes that what we teach is true, unless he is washed in the regenerating waters of baptism for the remission of his sins, and unless he lives in accordance with the principles given us by Christ. according to you "no one may eat unless (s)he belive the teaching, then may then eat" so then, if i may ask, what beliefs do infant have when they were baptised? |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 4:01pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
chukwudi44: stay on the topic. However, the bible says it "represent" his body christ body. I cant go beyond what is written. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by PastorAIO: 4:35pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
truthislight: You have already gone beyond what is written. The bible quotes Jesus as saying 'this is my body'. You have gone beyond to preach 'this REPRESENTS my body'. 1 Like |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by PastorAIO: 4:37pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
truthislight: We are talking about Eucharist, and you jumped to Baptism. Please explain your reasoning. How did you make the leap from one to the other. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by PastorAIO: 4:38pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
truthislight: And in what century was the bible compiled? |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by PastorAIO: 4:42pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
Sweetnecta: Dude, take care of your own house first. Is it not your inspired prophet that was getting inspiration from Satan at the same time to write Satanic verses? Where was his purification before getting message from Shaitan. Jesus knew who he was and who his God was, but apparently Mohammed had difficulty distinguishing God from Satan. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by PastorAIO: 4:44pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
truthislight: What did Jesus prophecy? Is it not that the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. What he binds on earth is bound in heaven and loosed on earth loosed in heaven? That is a heavy Authority to give. Why is it so hard to respect such authority? |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Rich4god(m): 5:26pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
truthislight:Na wa 4 u guys o... Plz, stop decieving urself. Where in the bible did Christ said that it represent His body. In other words your are actually saying that Paul was wrong when he said that "whoever eats the bread in an unworthy manner is guilty of sinning against the Lord. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 5:36pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
Rich4god: It is symbolic. If I eat the bread and drink the wine, I am partaking of the 'nature of Christ' , but the wine does not become blood, I have taken plenty of wine and it never tasted like blood ,  , also I have had plenty bread and it never tasted like flesh. I take it to associate with Christ , his death and resurrection. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 5:39pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
Does the Bible say the bread and wine turn into Jesus' flesh & blood when blessed? |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Rich4god(m): 6:40pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
@Frosbel... I realy taya 4 u. Plz read John 6:53-56. You said that catholics are crucifying Jesus again during comunion? Why did He said that we should do it in memory of Him. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 6:46pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
Rich4god: @Frosbel... I realy taya 4 u. Plz read John 6:53-56. You said that catholics are crucifying Jesus again during comunion? Why did He said that we should do it in memory of Him. In memory of him, not pretending that the wine turns to blood and the bread turns to flesh. Like I said, I have taken the wine and bread countless times and it never turned into blood or flesh. If you have had a different experience please let me know. Thanks, |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Rich4god(m): 7:15pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
frosbel:At the last supper when Jesus said this is my body and this is my blood, did the bread and wine change to flesh and blood. Nobody is saying that a physical change took place. Plz, check the meaning of transubstantiation. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 8:36pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
truthislight: Which topic? What historical proof have you adduced so far to disprove the canonisation of the bible by the catholic church? You have not been able anwer the questions I posed but keep dodging my questions. What historical proof do you have to show that the bible was not canonised by the catholic church.You keep shouting bible this and bible that without any knowlege of how it all came about. What biblical proof do you have to prove that the gospels were written by any of their acclaimed authours? More than 10 gospels were in circulation ,how do we know which of these gospels are genuine. Who were the early xtians who ran the church in the second,third and fourth centuries |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by Nobody: 9:00pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
[/quote]That is why he is quoting human^^^^ instead of the bible. So the books of the bible were not written by humans abi? They all fell down from heaven? Why you refer to the bible are you not refferring to the scriptural books that was canonised by these same catholic church.why don't you quote any of the other books that were not canonised. You keep blabbing like the bible has always been there from the begining.Do you that some biblical authours quoted and referred to other books not in the bible.Do you know prophet Nathan wrote a book,we also have books of jasher,ahijoh and enoch quoted and reffered to by biblical authors. Even the 1 corithians was not really paul's first letter to the corithians.He had actually written to them before that letter but the records have been lost.He also wrote a letter to the ladocieans which is no longer extant |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by DeepSight(m): 9:15pm On Sep 03, 2012 |
frosbel: Ah, not only does Chukwudi's clan say this, they also say that the Pope is infallible in matters of doctrine. Laughable. Anyway that is not to say that I do not agree with alot of what Chukwudi says re the bible. I do. |
| Re: Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible? by truthislight: 1:23am On Sep 04, 2012 |
Pastor AIO: ok, even if you said means my body it still means the samething. But that is not the topic here. |
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