pazienza:

Where exactly did you crawl out from?

Is that the best question you can come up with or what is the relevance?

In case you want to know, advise your biased MOD to release my original moniker, you will know who I am.

Or you want to tell us those countries I listed did not support your stupid war? Or your fathers have also be lying to you that you fought in.isolation. Keep leaving in your make-believe delusions you are calling stories being handed over to your generations. It is obvious, you have not learnt fron.history and the worst part for the people that refused to learn from it is that, it repeats itself.

the drum is getting louder.

ilugunboy:

You've lost...

All you are doing is the reaction of a slaughtered hen after the head has been severed

ndigbo style - where the vanquished makes more noise than the victor

all ego and no brain

Emperor_007:




^^^


Why not answer your real name " Yoruba citizen", and stop living a fake life?

You can only boast of today, tomorrow is pregnant.




.

See how foolish you are, calling any person that says anything that contradicts yours a Yoruba.

pazienza: It would appear we have to drum this into the ears of yorubas.

Zik forming alliance with the north was as a result of awo treachery,when awo came to zik to form alliance against the north,and sent akintola at the same time to north to form alliance against the east, awo was a typical yorubaman,i suspect he played this same game against ojukwu, anyway, zik was a wise man, he caught awo on his act, and told the north about awo's dishonesty,and went ahead to form an alliance with the north. It was yoruba power grabing antics that killed the would be southern unity, and pushed zik towards north,leaving awo and his yoruba people frustrated.

Rather than blame themselves and their treacherous behaviour for their lack of political power,the yorubas would go on and blame Igbos and zik for not allowing themselves to be used by the yorubas to grab power,like they later did with ojukwu.

The yorubas would later try to take central power by force,since their treachery couldn't give it to them legally, their kingpin was caught, tried by a court of law and rightfully jailed.

Rather than blame their power grabing mission for their travails and the imprisonment of their kingpin, the yorubas would once again cast all their blame on igbos, accusing igbos of setting awo up. Oh dear!

I would advise and recommend that every yoruba bigot out there print and paste this wonderful post of mine on a wall close to his/her bed, he should meditate on it every morning when he wakes up,and every night before he sleeps,it would cure his igbophobia. Any one of them that gets cured must pm me,and thank me,failure to do that will.... *grins*

So sad..... a poignant reminder that we must never use war to settle our differences. The blood thirsty post independence Nigerian Army, the unholy harbinger of chaos and doom. The list of Individual Victims of the Nigerian Army from 1966 to 1998: Ademulegun, Shodeinde, Maimalari, Ahmadu Bello, Balewa, Okotie-Eboh, Ironsi, Fajuyi, Murtala Muhammed, Maman Vasta, Funmilayo Ransome Kuti, Nzeogwu, Boro, Tom Biggar,Ken Saro Wiwa, Okigbo, Gomwalk, Dele Giwa, M.K.O Abiola, Abiola's wife, Dele Udoh, Ifeajuna, Banjo, Yar'Adua, Akintola and thousands or millions of predominantly Igbo civilians. Nigerian Army track record is a disgrace. Every Gaze tells its own story, some see it as an event, some recall it as chain of events, different angles gives different insight ... grief, revenge, anger, fulfillment, sacrifice, indifference, bravery, ego, taking advantage...anyways our collective humanity was the one that lost...It's a shame that after 5 decades, the intricacies that played those roles still breeds..."History can only repeat itself if we fail to learn"......Only the unwise will forget their past......I wont! But my faith says forgive so I will. But forgetting the past will be dumb or blindly play bygones be Bygones: No! that will be unfair to the fallen heroes! We study we understand why it happened we learn from it so it doesn't happen again! But sweeping it under the carpet breeds lameness and stupidity! We must never forget them! We honour their gallantry by remembering them and using it as marker for when others start fomenting silliness that cause distrust, paranoia and over heating the polity like some Idiotic ones are doing in the present dispensation.

pazienza:

I would advise and recommend that every yoruba bigot out there print and paste this wonderful post of mine on a wall close to his/her bed, he should meditate on it every morning when he wakes up,and every night before he sleeps,it would cure his igbophobia. Any one of them that gets cured must pm me,and thank me,failure to do that will.... *grins*

Our power play you are calling treachery got us dodan barracks and aso rock, not once and not twice.if that is treachery, so be it. No apologies to any baga and their father. What has your blood thirst gotten you the 5th class citizen of Nigeria.

papparatzzi2013:

Is that the best question you can come up with or what is the relevance?

In case you want to know, advise your biased MOD to release my original moniker, you will know who I am.

Or you want to tell us those countries I listed did not support your stupid war? Or your fathers have also be lying to you that you fought in.isolation. Keep leaving in your make-believe delusions you are calling stories being handed over to your generations. It is obvious, you have not learnt fron.history and the worst part for the people that refused to learn from it is that, it repeats itself.

the drum is getting louder.

i asked where you crawled out from,cos that issue had been debated time and time again here with no end point, as it stands, no amount of my mb will tilt your stand,so why even try. I am here only to neutralize your propaganda and make sure you don't have a field day.

Those countries that supported biafra did so cos of moral obligation and conscience, countries like tanzania,haiti, ivory coast,and the rest. They were not super powers.

For britain,the war was about maintaining it's business,which is nigerian oil, Nigeria as it was in choas was serving their purpose,as the british were not sure whether they would be allowed to exploit those oil wells under biafra,even with ojukwu assurance.and again there was the issue of biafra secession if sucessful, causing instability in other colonial entities in africa,as groups might begin to question colonial borders and seek for independence,the british had to use biafra to send a coded message to other african groups that will question any colonial boundary called countries they created.

France,well, their support for biafra were nothing to write home about,they were probably forced to fall in line by the british with time. America claimed to be neutral, but said that a united Nigeria serves the purpose of american,more than a divided nigeria.

papparatzzi2013:

Our power play you are calling treachery got us dodan barracks and aso rock, not once and not twice.if that is treachery, so be it. No apologies to any baga and their father. What has your blood thirst gotten you the 5th class citizen of Nigeria.

Your treachery left ibadan an eyesore we know it to be today, it made your region a jungle infested with mudhouses,made ndiigbo overtake you once again in education, finally,it has brought you to irrelevance in the scheme of things in Nigeria today,as there is no yoruba man in any position of high authority in Nigeria,it's karma,it has run a full circle,leaving you exactly where you started, an opposition with no power, under a kingpin, looking to use any means available to grab power from the central government.

Orlando Owoh:
You asked me to get proof to back my claim, while I'm yet to, you jumped into conclusion. I will leave to do it yourself.

No vex. Just prove your claim bros

I must confess that I've never bothered to read books on Gen. Ironsi. I'm alarmed at the claims of Katsumoto. Though I feel challenged to dig more on the personality of Gen. Ironsi. As always, many tales will be discredited.

pazienza:

If enugu even after british powered land strikes, egyptian powered air raids, could rise from those ruins and still be a better living place than Ibadan, than i think we have our game on.

By the way, the so called annihillation were powered by britain,Egypt and USSR, they won't be in the equation next time around.

Now I see that I am wasting my time debating with a psychotic person who has a distorted view of life.

Ibos do not know how to build sustainable relationships, you cannot even get along with fellow Nigerians- whether in the SW, the North, SS - you make enemies everywhere. In SA, Kenya, Indonesia, China, Malaysia- ibos are disliked- FACT!

If a war breaks out tomorrow, the only countries that will support you is Ivory Coast, Libya and the Vatican for humanitarian reasons. You think the Americans, Europeans are stupid? You have a serious inferiority complex that are masking with your daft posts on here.

pazienza:

i asked where you crawled out from,cos that issue had been debated time and time again here with no end point, as it stands, no amount of my mb will tilt your stand,so why even try. I am here only to neutralize your propaganda and make sure you don't have a field day.

Those countries that supported biafra did so cos of moral obligation and conscience, countries like tanzania,haiti, ivory coast,and the rest. They were not super powers.

For britain,the war was about maintaining it's business,which is nigerian oil, Nigeria as it was in choas was serving their purpose,as the british were not sure whether they would be allowed to exploit those oil wells under biafra,even with ojukwu assurance.and again there was the issue of biafra secession if sucessful, causing instability in other colonial entities in africa,as groups might begin to question colonial borders and seek for independence,the british had to use biafra to send a coded message to other african groups that will question any colonial boundary called countries they created.

France,well, their support for biafra were nothing to write home about,they were probably forced to fall in line by the british with time. America claimed to be neutral, but said that a united Nigeria serves the purpose of american,more than a divided nigeria.

If you know all that, save us the stress of Russian and British backing up Nigeria lame argument which is a tales by moonlight story being told at your village square. Like I said earlier on, countries form alliances and support based on their conscience, pacts, and benefits. That is the bitter world of international politics.

Ojukwu should have entered into a military pact with France before declaring war just like Cameroon. This would have made Biafra a French protectorate militarily and even a boot of the NA would have been seen as an aggression on France.

It clearly shows, either the Oxford warlord was not strategic enough or France did not totally believe in your cause.

Vatican and Israel supported financially and military wise. So stop all these fallacies of this and that country supported Nigeria.

Even if they supported, were they the foot soldiers too?

The war was fought and lost and forget about it and stop flaming the ember of another by greed and being covetous of another man's land.

If you are looking for a land to annex, annex the water of the ijaws that are your Neighbour. Is that even possible.

Babasessy: So sad..... a poignant reminder that we must never use war to settle our differences. The blood thirsty post independence Nigerian Army, the unholy harbinger of chaos and doom. The list of Individual Victims of the Nigerian Army from 1966 to 1998: Ademulegun, Shodeinde, Maimalari, Ahmadu Bello, Balewa, Okotie-Eboh, Ironsi, Fajuyi, Murtala Muhammed, Maman Vasta, Funmilayo Ransome Kuti, Nzeogwu, Boro, Tom Biggar,Ken Saro Wiwa, Okigbo, Gomwalk, Dele Giwa, M.K.O Abiola, Abiola's wife, Dele Udoh, Ifeajuna, Banjo, Yar'Adua, Akintola and thousands or millions of predominantly Igbo civilians. Nigerian Army track record is a disgrace. Every Gaze tells its own story, some see it as an event, some recall it as chain of events, different angles gives different insight ... grief, revenge, anger, fulfillment, sacrifice, indifference, bravery, ego, taking advantage...anyways our collective humanity was the one that lost...It's a shame that after 5 decades, the intricacies that played those roles still breeds..."History can only repeat itself if we fail to learn"......Only the unwise will forget their past......I wont! But my faith says forgive so I will. But forgetting the past will be dumb or blindly play bygones be Bygones: No! that will be unfair to the fallen heroes! We study we understand why it happened we learn from it so it doesn't happen again! But sweeping it under the carpet breeds lameness and stupidity! We must never forget them! We honour their gallantry by remembering them and using it as marker for when others start fomenting silliness that cause distrust, paranoia and over heating the polity like some Idiotic ones are doing in the present dispensation.

Everyone has a side, reveal your side,and stop pretending to be neutral.

papparatzzi2013:

If you know all that, save us the stress of Russian and British backing up Nigeria lame argument which is a tales by moonlight story being told at your village square. Like I said earlier on, countries form alliances and support based on their conscience, pacts, and benefits. That is the bitter world of international politics.

Ojukwu should have entered into a military pact with France before declaring war just like Cameroon. This would have made Biafra a French protectorate militarily and even a boot of the NA would have been seen as an aggression on France.

It clearly shows, either the Oxford warlord was not strategic enough or France did not totally believe in your cause.

Vatican and Israel supported financially and military wise. So stop all these fallacies of this and that country supported Nigeria.

Even if they supported, were they the foot soldiers too?

The war was fought and lost and forget about it and stop flaming the ember of another by greed and being covetous of another man's land.

If you are looking for a land to annex, annex the water of the ijaws that are your Neighbour. Is that even possible.

At this junction,i find myself trying so hard to understand him,but failing. What a waste of mb.

Italiano1:

Now I see that I am wasting my time debating with a psychotic person who has a distorted view of life.

Ibos do not know how to build sustainable relationships, you cannot even get along with fellow Nigerians- whether in the SW, the North, SS - you make enemies everywhere. In SA, Kenya, Indonesia, China, Malaysia- ibos are disliked- FACT!

If a war breaks out tomorrow, the only countries that will support you is Ivory Coast, Libya and the Vatican for humanitarian reasons. You think the Americans, Europeans are stupid? You have a serious inferiority complex that are masking with your daft posts on here.

Maybe the above post will help explain why yorubas were having wrestling matches called kirijiri war with each other when the british came,while the trouble loving igbos were busy living in harmony with their isoko neighbours in aboh kingdom, ijaw neighbours in bonny and opobo, igala neighbours in agulueri,ibibio neighbours in arochukwu and annang neighbours in ngwa.

It would also help explain why the oba of bini together with other midwestern monarchs, sought to leave the western tribal region, hmm. Tell me something. *grins*

pazienza:

at this junction,i find myself trying so hard to understand him,but failing. What a waste of mb.

You cannot because every body has been exposing the likes of you one_ naira, remarkd and dede1 have been telling yourselves in your enclaves. Katz, Orlando, mafia man etc have tried to lecture you since but you refused to learn and stuck to your myopic thinking. Katz is really a patient guy and he has my respect.

I gained alot on this thread even from your sometimes blind and illogical arguments but does not mean we should not disprove your lies.

PhysicsQED:

Well, after reading this, I have to say that unless Dede1 can show that the Official Gazettes were factually incorrect or they were interpreted incorrectly, it doesn't seem that he has much of an argument to make about what the percentage really was.

Dede1 has painstakingly listed the names and ranks of Igbo officers in Nigerian armed forces from Major General to Captain as of January 15, 1966, the number has already trumped the total number the goofy British named Robin Luckham got from Nigeria during the war, yet PhysicsQED and Katsumoto are in doubt.

I have asked the doubters to produce their lists of Edo and Yoruba Officers of Nigerian armed forces prior to January 15, 1966 or shut their putrid mouths. Since PhysicsQED has been busy talking about Official Gazettes, it will settle issue if PhysicsQED could provide the Official Gazettes so the few donkeys that jumped onto this thread could judge for them selves.

I hate Nigeria because of people such as PhysicsQED and Katsumoto who seemed to embrace intellectual laziness. Certain issues that engulfed Nigeria and were propagated by rumors and innuendos fueled by tribal bias spurred me to embark on exploratory research on the formatives years of Nigeria.

pazienza:

What source are you looking for? Those are Ironsi appointments as they were, provide an alternative figure to debunk my claims, not everybody is good with copy and paste.

..olodo jati jati...lol

Why do i have this feeling that i have been dealing with same person operating under different monikers? *grins*

khamas19:

..olodo jati jati...lol

Onye nka esikwa ebee? Ayachakwa ndi kwu oto,ayakwa ndi makpu amakpu. *grins*

pazienza:

Onye nka esikwa ebee? Ayachakwa ndi kwu oto,ayakwa ndi makpu amakpu. *grins*

...thank you very much....everyday people like you reaffirm the preconceptions I have regarding certain subjects...carry on,
carry on...don't stop...march on to and over the precipice- therein lies the end you have chosen for yourself and yours..therein lies the new begining
we have been hoping for...

naijaking1:

Oga Kats, please answer the question about linking every action taken by someone or some people to EVERY member of his or trib. You have successfully tried to dodge this simple question for quite a while. Is it proper to massacre Igbos because some Igbos planned a coup, killed some defenseless civilians, even celebrated the death of some others, the list of purported Igbo wrong doings are many, but the simple question is 'was it correct to go after every identifieable Igbo, just because of what other Igbos did? I'm not taking about those Igbos who were directly or even indirectly involved, I mean every man, woman, child, that looks, spoke, and acted Igbo? You should simply answer this question, because it will help us understand your colored lenses.
From the Biblical times, to Rwanda, to the civil rights era, this issue has been addressed over and over again. The modern agreement is that people should be judged by the contents of their character, not the color of their skin, or their tribe. Where do you stand Katsumoto

I have never dodged a question. Direct me to the question asked and how I dodged it.

First, the massacre of innocent people should be condemned by all decent human beings. Did I state that the murders of defenseless people was justifiable? You simply want to draw this debate to where 'you can play the victim'. I am debating the events of the first coup which led to the second coup and since the facts support my position, you want to demonize me even when I made no mention of the pogroms, justifiable or not.

Second, the victims of the first coup were overwhelmingly Northerners. Why not direct your question at them? I am not a Northerner and can't speak for them. A discussion about how far one can go with regards to a wicked act (January coup and murders of non-igbos) and the concomitant retributive reaction (July Coup and murders of Igbos) should be held between Ndigbo and the Northerners. All I can say is that one action led to a reaction.

Third, I find blatantly reprehensible, the strategy of 'playing victims' after some of you lose debates. What was the point of mentioning the pogroms if not to play victim? I have analysed and pointed out the actions of some Igbo sons in the 60s which led to chaos in Nigeria only in response to lies, factual inaccuracies, and illogical conclusions. I did not open this thread just I haven't opened any other in the past with regards to this subject. I am simply doing my bit, based on MY knowledge, to ensure that history isn't re-written.

Fourth, I have often had respectable debates with you in the past, I do not appreciate words being put in my mouth. Respond, if you must, to what I state or imply explicitly.

DerideGull:


Dede1 has painstakingly listed the names and ranks of Igbo officers in Nigerian armed forces from Major General to Captain as of January 15, 1966, the number has already trumped the total number the goofy British named Robin Luckham got from Nigeria during the war, yet PhysicsQED and Katsumoto are in doubt.

I have asked the doubters to produce their lists of Edo and Yoruba Officers of Nigerian armed forces prior to January 15, 1966 or shut their putrid mouths. Since PhysicsQED has been busy talking about Official Gazettes, it will settle issue if PhysicsQED could provide the Official Gazettes so the few donkeys that jumped onto this thread could judge for them selves.

I hate Nigeria because of people such as PhysicsQED and Katsumoto who seemed to embrace intellectual laziness. Certain issues that engulfed Nigeria and were propagated by rumors and innuendos fueled by tribal bias spurred me to embark on exploratory research on the formatives years of Nigeria.

The records in the National Gazettes are not as comprehensive as the records Dede1 has in his bedroom.

Someone who can't reference published works is calling those who have, intellectually lazy. See logic

ACM10: I must confess that I've never bothered to read books on Gen. Ironsi. I'm alarmed at the claims of Katsumoto. Though I feel challenged to dig more on the personality of Gen. Ironsi. As always, many tales will be discredited.

Like you want to challenge the results of the 1951 election but have to travel to the library in your grandmother's village first?

By the way, when are you going to travel there so as to get those results?

Katsumoto:

Like you want to challenge the results of the 1951 election but have to travel to the library in your grandmother's village first?

By the way, when are you going to travel there so as to get those results?

Katz you are not nice at all. Who will pay his ransome?

papparatzzi2013:

Katz you are not nice at all. Who will pay his ransome?

But he already lives in Alaigbo. I don't know why it is taking so long. We had that debate over two years ago.

Someone states publicly that he is going to challenge something and then doesn't.

Why not seek the information and then challenge?

Katsumoto:



But he already lives in Alaigbo. I don't know why it is taking so long. We had that debate over two years ago.

Someone states publicly that he is going to challenge something and then doesn't.

Why not seek the information and then challenge?

That is their way. Always debating blindly without referencing source and expecting us to believe their tales by moonlight stories.

They are fond of arguing blindly, debating illogically and issuing empty ultimatums.

I do welcome intellectual debate that is devoid of fallacy and lies being branded as facts but making other people look stupid in the face of their fallacy is foolishness on their part.

nku5:

No vex. Just prove your claim bros

Google it, using the words.

Katsumoto:

Like you want to challenge the results of the 1951 election but have to travel to the library in your grandmother's village first?

By the way, when are you going to travel there so as to get those results?

I discredited your account on the role of Fajuyi in Ironsi's last hour.

I discredited your tales on the mass recruitment into armed forces prior to the invasion of Midwest by the Biafra forces.

Together with Dede, we busted your lies that Zik struck out the secession clause from the constitution.

More to come. . .

. . . discrediting your revisionist tales is my hobby

Katsumoto:

First, Ndigbo did not gather together to decide on the coup but the beneficiaries of the coup were indeed Igbo. Ironsi became head of state, Ironsi's advisory council was 100% Igbo, 76% of promotions in the army officer corp went to Igbo. The civil service jobs that opened up in the North as a result of Ironsi unifying the civil service (decree 34) and cancelling the requirement for Hausa tests in the North were to be filled by the senior civil servants that Ojukwu announced would be exported from Enugu to Kaduna and Lagos.

Second, Ironsi was the most senior army officer, he wasn't killed but all those killed were his juniors. Bello and Akintola were killed, Okpara who wasn't a saint was not killed. The revenge coup of July 1966 was an ethnic coup and it succeeded so ethnic coups succeed. The January coup was also ethnic and it succeeded in changing the balance of power.

Third, First coup was Igbo executed, the second coup was Northern executed

Are you alright you wrote the above crap especially the third stanza? Like everything to post on this forum, you find cunning niche to show your tribally biased colors. To you, the first coup was Igbo not south, west, midwest or east but the second coup was north not Hausa, Fulani, Kanuri, Tiv, Idoma or Nupe.

No wonder the northerners think they were born to rule Nigeria because large number of confused southerners are readily available to defend their silly acts.

Igbo people are reaping the fruit of their "labour." You reap what you sow. Ife onye metaru.

ACM10:

I discredited your account on the role of Fajuyi in Ironsi's last hour.

I discredited your tales on the mass recruitment into armed forces prior to the invasion of Midwest by the Biafra forces.

Together with Dede, we busted your lies that Zik struck out the secession clause from the constitution.

More to come. . .

. . . discrediting your revisionist tales is my hobby

The mind is a powerful thing.