@nuru,

"Where is your evidence for the consent that Muhammad's companions obtained before they had coitus interruptus with their booties?"

shahan:

I wonder since when Islam preaches choice?

a choice that will snap the neckof its apostates,what a bad choice

Finally Shahan is back.

I am geting sick of these sex stories and i don't know what makes you feel like some kind of women liberators or how in reality an average christian can claim more accolades than muslim in treatment of women folks. Sometimes you guys tend to mixed up arab cultures and extremism with the real islam, citing some extreme situations while you are always quick to distance christianity with entertainers or guys like Timothy Mcveigh or Hitler.

bellotti,so tell us was the coitus on captured helpless slave girls practiced and advocated by Mohammed his wild Arab side or his Islamic side?
we know you are a wee bit smarter than nurudeen but looks like he's rubbing off on you.

Some people will just not understand simple narrations. They have blocked their eyes, ears and hearts. They seek to cause mischieve and lead none astray but their own souls.

ACCEPT ISLAM TODAY.

@nuru,

This is one more confirmation that Muslims can't defend what they affirm. Why even bother yourself with your superstition when you knew that there were no evidence for your claim of "consent" by Muhammad's companions before they raped their "booties" victims?

Baby and shahan, i can understand why you worry so much about this coitus stuff but i tell you theres no need for that. Whenever i come across it in any history book i always take it to be some olden days war practices which does not have any significance to us nowadays. But i am not trying to be analytical or judgemental here, am only speaking for myself. Its a war period when slave women were liberated to be wives, which in anyway we look at it is a better status. Indeed there are procedures and guidelines before this conversion take place and definitely its not going to be like rape. But war is war, its never meant to be pleasant to any POW.

@belloti,

I hear you. Next time, mr nuru and his caste should be willing to provide valid references for what they propose.

Somebody remains diabolical even after reading a clear-cut Hadith, he/she is having an illusion in his/her mind and falsely accused Holy men of rape. Does the onus of proof not lie on the accuser? Why must Nuru give you evidence that rape was not committed by the Muslims when you yourself read the Hadith. Do you not understand English? Even then, the theme of the Hadith has been explained but because most of you are sex-perverts, you fail to appreciate the message of the Hadith and choose to echo only issues of Sex.

Islam remains the only religion acceptable to God. The Christians and others that believed truly in Jesus Christ before hearing the Message of God from Muhammad will be admitted into Jannat. But whoever, and I repeat whoever hear of Muhammad, hear of the Quran and disbelieve will be a candidate of eternal doom. If his/her Lord wishes, he/she can be forgiven. This is the Eternal Truth.

As for the treatment of women slaves in Islam, the man who received a revelation from his Lord and taught his fellows that slaves should be treated kindly could not turn round to be a rapist. Look at how beautiful the Quran puts treatment of slaves and women.

1. Emancipation of Slaves is great virtue (Chapter 90 Verse 13)
2. In cases of unintentional murder and similar offences, emancipation of slaves is prescribed as the atonement (Chapter 58 Verse 3, Chapter 4 Verse 92 etc)
3. Chapter 24 Verses 32 and 33 hit the nail on the head ‘’ Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female: if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace: for Allah encompasses all, and He knows all things. Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them)’’
4. Chapter 4 Verse 25 also hit the nail on the head ‘’ If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.’’

In the light of above verses from the Quran which Muhammad taught and practiced, it will do a lot of good for you false accusers to go and repent for slandering. Turn to your God and ask for His forgiveness. He is Ever ready to forgive. Above all, accept Islam Today. The clock is ticking.

nuru:

Somebody remains diabolical even after reading a clear-cut Hadith, he/she is having an illusion in his/her mind and falsely accused Holy men of rape. Does the onus of proof not lie on the accuser? Why must Nuru give you evidence that rape was not committed by the Muslims when you yourself read the Hadith. Do you not understand English? Even then, the theme of the Hadith has been explained but because most of you are sex-perverts, you fail to appreciate the message of the Hadith and choose to echo only issues of Sex.

Islam remains the only religion acceptable to God. The Christians and others that believed truly in Jesus Christ before hearing the Message of God from Muhammad will be admitted into Jannat. But whoever, and I repeat whoever hear of Muhammad, hear of the Quran and disbelieve will be a candidate of eternal doom. If his/her Lord wishes, he/she can be forgiven. This is the Eternal Truth.

As for the treatment of women slaves in Islam, the man who received a revelation from his Lord and taught his fellows that slaves should be treated kindly could not turn round to be a rapist. Look at how beautiful the Quran puts treatment of slaves and women.

1. Emancipation of Slaves is great virtue (Chapter 90 Verse 13)
2. In cases of unintentional murder and similar offences, emancipation of slaves is prescribed as the atonement (Chapter 58 Verse 3, Chapter 4 Verse 92 etc)
3. Chapter 24 Verses 32 and 33 hit the nail on the head ‘’ Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female: if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace: for Allah encompasses all, and He knows all things. Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them)’’
4. Chapter 4 Verse 25 also hit the nail on the head ‘’ If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.’’

In the light of above verses from the Quran which Muhammad taught and practiced, it will do a lot of good for you false accusers to go and repent for slandering. Turn to your God and ask for His forgiveness. He is Ever ready to forgive. Above all, accept Islam Today. The clock is ticking.

you wouldn't know truth even if it hit you in the face.
Read bellottis response,it happened in war time,we can understand that but you are so unreasonable.
How in the world will a woman consent to sleep with a man who just murdered her husband,parents and relatives?
Does that make any sense to you?
For you to carry on with this nonsense shows us how depraved you are.

The hadith did not say rape as a word,did you expect the writers of the Koran  and hadiths to be that stupid?
But imagine a fellow man come in slaughter you and sleep with your wife as his allah given right and your wife would consent?

If you have nothing to say just be silent,the more you talk,the more ridiculous you sound.
Are you by chance related to babs?

Truth will definitely cause some people to rant but they don't really need to if the eyes are seeing. And they should work at the eyes to see the Truth, the Beauty of Islam, the Path of Salvation. You cant deny it.

@nuru,

nuru:

Truth will definitely cause some people to rant but they don't really need to if the eyes are seeing. And they should work at the eyes to see the Truth, the Beauty of Islam, the Path of Salvation. You can't deny it.

After shamelessly ranting such brouhaha that you couldn't defend, one really would have thought you were the wiser for it by now. But you only prove yourself a total stranger to truth and decency.

nuru:

Somebody remains diabolical even after reading a clear-cut Hadith, he/she is having an illusion in his/her mind and falsely accused Holy men of rape. Does the onus of proof not lie on the accuser? Why must Nuru give you evidence that rape was not committed by the Muslims when you yourself read the Hadith. Do you not understand English? Even then, the theme of the Hadith has been explained but because most of you are sex-perverts, you fail to appreciate the message of the Hadith and choose to echo only issues of Sex.

I only wanted your evidence for your claim that the companions of Muhammad obtained the consent of those with whom they had coitus interruptus. Since that was your claim, then it is pertinent that YOU and no one else should be forthcoming with references to that. In your latest entry, you again failed to provide any reference and instead dribbled your way slyly with accusations that "most of you are sex-perverts."

Let me show you who a sex-pervert is:

He is one who thinks of nothing else than 72 virgins with cauldrons of liquor in paradise.

He is one who eroded any sense of morality to have had sex with a 9 year-old when he was old enough to be her grandfather.

He is one who received 'revelation' to marry any number of women that he lusted after (including his relatives) and at the same time forbidding his followers to marry more than 4 wives by the same revelation.

He is one who had no moral spine to caution his companions about the perversion of coitus interruptus while the Qur'an was being revealed.

He is one who, after having had sex with one of his numerous wives when his eyes fell on another woman, then afterwards pronounced that the woman advances like a devil.

He is one who sees nothing more than sex, sex, and more sex, so that his companions will praise him for having been blessed with the sexual strength of thirty men.

He is one whose life was humongously inconsistent in his sexual escapades, so that when queried about this, Muslim apologists would limply admit to such embarrasing adventures with the sad cliché of "Muhammad was just a man like anyone of us."

nuru:

Islam remains the only religion acceptable to God. The Christians and others that believed truly in Jesus Christ before hearing the Message of God from Muhammad will be admitted into Jannat. But whoever, and I repeat whoever hear of Muhammad, hear of the Quran and disbelieve will be a candidate of eternal doom. If his/her Lord wishes, he/she can be forgiven. This is the Eternal Truth.

Please pick up a dictionary and check out the meaning of "truth!" With all your repetitive inconsistencies, you devise a plan for consigning people to eternal doom for not believing in Muhammad and the Qur'an; then you relax your joke at the end of that noise with "if his/her Lord wishes." This is one more confirmation that you are neither here nor there.

nuru:

As for the treatment of women slaves in Islam, the man who received a revelation from his Lord and taught his fellows that slaves should be treated kindly could not turn round to be a rapist. Look at how beautiful the Quran puts treatment of slaves and women.

1. Emancipation of Slaves is great virtue (Chapter 90 Verse 13)

You make a caricature of "emancipation" of slaves. What is the real plight of women in typically Muslim/Islamic cultures today? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Even Iran or Saudi Arabia? How do you define "emancipation" in the face of double-slavery of mind and body? Women cannot walk the streets by themselves in typically Islamic cultures unless accompanied by their so-called husbands or a close male relative - nevermind that they're even then required to be all covered in the burka, and that such men are 'free' to go about with lustful eyes. Where is this 'emancipation' in typical Muslim cultures where learned Muslim personalities have had to openly admit that something is wrong with your type of ideology?

You really don't know a shade better than to commit yourself to such silly remarks with flaccid apologetics. Perhaps, you'd be all the better schooled in future posts as not to reveal your remote cubicle to reality.

Infact read a Muslim Imams response to the question of coitus with slave girls.


[b]In the “Jihaads” (Islamic wars) that took place, women were also, at times, taken as prisoners of war by the Muslim warriors. These women captives used to be distributed as part of the booty among the soldiers, after their return to Islamic territory. Each soldier was then entitled to have relations ONLY with the slave girl over which he was given the RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP and NOT with those slave girls that were not in his possession. This RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP was given to him by the “Ameerul-Mu'mineen” (Head of the Islamic state.) Due to this right of ownership, It became lawful for the owner of a slave girl to have intercourse with her.

It may, superficially, appear distasteful to copulate with a woman who is not a man's legal wife, but once Shariat makes something lawful, we have to accept it as lawful, whether it appeals to our taste, or not; and whether we know its underlying wisdom or not. It is necessary for a Muslim to be acquainted with the laws of Shariat, but it is not necessary for him to delve into each law in order to find the underlying wisdom of these laws because knowledge of the wisdom of some of the laws may be beyond his puny comprehension. Allah Ta'ala has said in the Holy Quran: “Wa maa ooteetum min al-ilm illaa qaleelan” which means, more or less, that, "You have been given a very small portion of knowledge”. Hence, if a person fails to comprehend the underlying wisdom of any law of Shariat, he cannot regard it as a fault of Shariat (Allah forbid), on the contrary, it is the fault of his own perception and lack of understanding, because no law of Shariat is contradictory to wisdom.

Nevertheless, the wisdom underlying the permission granted by Shariat to copulate with a slave woman is as follows: The LEGAL possession that a Muslim receives over a slave woman from the “Ameerul-Mu'mineen” (the Islamic Head of State) gives him legal credence to have coition with the slave woman in his possession, just as the marriage ceremony gives him legal credence to have coition with his wife. In other words, this LEGAL POSSESSION is, in effect, a SUBSTITUTE of the MARRIAGE CEREMONY. A free woman cannot be 'possessed', bought or sold like other possessions; therefore Shariat instituted a 'marriage ceremony' in which affirmation and consent takes place, which gives a man the right to copulate with her. On the other hand, a slave girl can be possessed and even bought and sold, thus, this right of possession, substituting as a marriage ceremony, entitles the owner to copulate with her. A similar example can be found in the slaughtering of animals; that after a formal slaughtering process, in which the words, “Bismillahi Allahu Akbar” are recited, goats, cows, etc.; become “Halaal” and lawful for consumption, whereas fish becomes “Halaal” merely through 'possession' which substitutes for the slaughtering.

In other words, just as legal possession of a fish that has been fished out of the water, makes it Halaal for human consumption without the initiation of a formal slaughtering process; similarly legal possession of a slave woman made her Halaal for the purpose of coition with her owner without the initiation of a formal marriage ceremony. [/b]

read the whole thing from a learned imam not those that try to white wash Islam.

read his whole answer,bellotti and co are just being politically correct what they say is not what the religion teaches.

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=5482

Yet no mention of rape in this article. The right to possession of slave maids ( whom your right hand possess) is even compared to marriage by the writer to show you the honour with which conjugal relationship is held among Muslims.

And who told anybody that the Muslim women of today are not happy with the dictates of their religion. I have a wife, sisters and colleagues that are always thanking Allah for making them Muslims. They are enjoying themselves and even when they travel to the western world where the so called liberated women have field days, they still come back to thank Allah for their own lot.
Muslims can see what non-Muslims have and that which they hold dear, yet affirm Islam the best. But non-Muslims are ever afraid to try Islam. Why wouldn't somebody even just pretend, even if it is for a whole month to be a Muslim and see the difference. Why wouldn't somebody listen to the Quran and its expositions. Why wouldn't somebody perform Salat, pay Zakat, fast, perform the Hajj and spread goodness and love on the surface of the earth. Why must somebody spread lies, fornication, corruption, gambling, intoxications, lewdness, aggression, tyranny, pride and other vices on the surface of the earth. Does he not know that his progenitors were created from the earth and that he will be returned therein and be raised up from it. This is the wisdom, this is what the men of understanding know and this why they choose Islam.

Almost forgot. Baby posted the link to an article. Everybody on this thread should read the entire article and form or reshape his/her opinion.

@nuru,

nuru:

Yet no mention of rape in this article. The right to possession of slave maids ( whom your right hand possess) is even compared to marriage by the writer to show you the honour with which conjugal relationship is held among Muslims.

Neither was there any consent mentioned anywhere of Muhammad's companions before they committed coitus interruptus with their victims.

When a person has sex with a war victim against their will simply because "your right hand possesses" them, what is that called?

nuru:

And who told anybody that the Muslim women of today are not happy with the dictates of their religion. I have a wife, sisters and colleagues that are always thanking Allah for making them Muslims. They are enjoying themselves and even when they travel to the western world where the so called liberated women have field days, they still come back to thank Allah for their own lot.

Would your wife, sisters and colleagues still thank Allah for making them Muslims if they travelled to Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia? Just try and be realistic for once.

And travelling to "the western world" does not make Islam right in anyway - that is the propaganda your mullahs have been spreading for ages.

nuru:

Why wouldn't somebody listen to the Quran and its expositions. Why wouldn't somebody perform Salat, pay Zakat, fast, perform the Hajj and spread goodness and love on the surface of the earth. Why must somebody spread lies, fornication, corruption, gambling, intoxications, lewdness, aggression, tyranny, pride and other vices on the surface of the earth.

The emboldened part of your complaint are the questions that many people are asking about the issues in Islam. In typical Muslim societies epitomised by Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, most of the vices you mentioned are the norm; not to mention that some Muslim apologists on the Forum have used lies and pride to try and further their claims.

I did mentioned it sometimes ago that the taste of the pudding is in eating. You see, I had an opportunity some weeks back to travel to Daura, a northern Nigerian predominantly Muslim town, in the company of my colleagues, most of whom are southern Nigerian Christians. My companions were utterly flabbergasted at the relative peace that enveloped the area. They had never seen a place where valuable goods are displayed openly with scant security measures. Shopowners even left there wares to answer the call of prayer without locking up. There was not a single show of hostility even when some members of the party were identified as non Muslims. The Emir's brother welcomed us generously. In fact many more happened on the trip such my non-Muslim friend confided in me that they wont mind retiring to that part of the country in the near future. This could only have been because of Islamic life entrenched in that society.

I also want to tell you that my wife just returned from Saudi Arabia and to her it was like she wanted to stay put there if not for family and work commitments. That is why when people talk of backwardness and all its attribute, I say these are not the lot of Muslims. Where there is a war, yes, visibility and feasibility of progress is reduced, but to generalize is not it.

The dignity that Islam accords women is unparalleled in history and that is why female issues have always been subjects of discussion since the time of Quranic Revelation.

nuru:

I did mentioned it sometimes ago that the taste of the pudding is in eating. You see, I had an opportunity some weeks back to travel to Daura, a northern Nigerian predominantly Muslim town, in the company of my colleagues, most of whom are southern Nigerian Christians.,,,,,,,,,

@mr Nuru,
If you travel to my yoruba village in south-west Nigeria composed of predominatly traditional worshippers (and a little christian and muslim population), you and your colleagues will also feel like retiring there. Because of the "relative peace and tranquility" that envelope the town; and in addition, people go to farms and leave their doors open and farmers leave their farm goods by the roadside, and if you want to buy anything, you pick it and leave the money. By your logic, these could only have been because of traditional (idol) worshipping virtues, abi? You see how confounded your logic is.
Daura, like my village, is an economic backwater hence the gentle easy-going lifestyle; it is only because of politics in Nigeria that a place like Daura becomes a state capital. The crime rate in Tehran (capital of islamic iran) or in Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) almost equals that of London because they are all burstling cities.
As per your wife, she can still go back to Saudi and she will be contented with walking behind you, not able to drive a car, cannot vote and be equated to donkeys among other "dignities that Islam accords women".
Try to be objective in your attempt at glorifying what is inglorious i.e. Islam.

@nuru,

nuru:

This could only have been because of Islamic life entrenched in that society.

And what religious life has been entrenched in Pakistan, Afghanistan and several other places other than Islamic life?

nuru:

I also want to tell you that my wife just returned from Saudi Arabia and to her it was like she wanted to stay put there if not for family and work commitments. That is why when people talk of backwardness and all its attribute, I say these are not the lot of Muslims. Where there is a war, yes, visibility and feasibility of progress is reduced, but to generalize is not it.

Probably your wife didn't stay long enough to know religious life in Saudi Arabia (no disrespects to her).

nuru:

The dignity that Islam accords women is unparalleled in history and that is why female issues have always been subjects of discussion since the time of Quranic Revelation.

Classic. Have you wondered why female issues have always been subjects of discussion centered on the Qur'an? In the face of the propaganda that you cough up (as in the case of the consent to commit coitus interruptus), questions are being asked, and so far only claims are being made to pretend that such issues don't exist.

nuru:

I also want to tell you that my wife just returned from Saudi Arabia and to her it was like she wanted to stay put there if not for family and work commitments. That is why when people talk of backwardness and all its attribute, I say these are not the lot of Muslims. Where there is a war, yes, visibility and feasibility of progress is reduced, but to generalize is not it.

If your wife had the opportunity to travel to the US or any major European nation, she would not have thought twice about her job before deciding to stay put there!

,It may, superficially, appear distasteful to copulate with a woman who is not a man's legal wife, but once Shariat makes something lawful, we have to accept it as lawful, whether it appeals to our taste, or not;

This is an excerpt from the article above and explains the whole issue.
Shahan the above tells us if it is consensual or not.
Sharia and allah says it is OK,it should not be questioned afterall the woman is just a tilth and when she is captured,waht kind of a lower tilth does she become?
This allah sef

In all the spurious replies, no one has been able to prove that the women referenced in the Hadith were raped. Rather you have shown how generous the Muslim captors could be to their maids. Remember that was a society where girl-children used to be buried alive. If Islam could start the reorientation of the people towards dealing justly and treating with dignity not just the free women, but captive maids, I wonder what moral right anybody has to label those who propagated Islam as rapists. You have to look at the historical perspective without prejudice and concede at least that the emergence of Islam emancipated the world.

I think someone should take a trip just like I did and not just equate village scenery in Yorabland to what we experienced. Remember, I also hail from South West Nigeria and I know what obtains there. The worship of One God cannot be equated to idol-worshipping or Jesus-worshipping.

And who told anybody that my family had never been to a western nation before. Anyway, lets leave that for now. The issue is that our Creator has favored us and has chosen Islam for us to practice and whoever rejects this gift of God will have him/herself to blame.

You guys are not fair to islam. We all know that you dont like Islam but i dont think you need to go to that extent to prove that. Our women are special to us either as mothers, sisters or wives, why on earth can we gain satisfaction by inflicting injuries upon them?. Cant you see we are humans like you too and we cant just be irrational to the extent of sanctioning rape. Rape in any language or dialect is wrong and unacceptable. And we do love our women too.

belloti:

You guys are not fair to islam. We all know that you don't like Islam but i don't think you need to go to that extent to prove that. Our women are special to us either as mothers, sisters or wives, why on earth can we gain satisfaction by inflicting injuries upon them?. Cant you see we are humans like you too and we can't just be irrational to the extent of sanctioning rape. Rape in any language or dialect is wrong and unacceptable. And we do love our women too.

What do you say to the guards in muslim countries who repeatedly rape women in prison simply because islam states a virgin shld not be allowed into heaven?

nuru:

I think someone should take a trip just like I did and not just equate village scenery in Yorabland to what we experienced. Remember, I also hail from South West Nigeria and I know what obtains there. The worship of One God cannot be equated to idol-worshipping or Jesus-worshipping.

@Nuru,
Why not? The purpose of the analogy is to point out your erroneous conclusion about your perceived association between "peace and tranquility" of Daura and Islam. If we go by your thinking then the "peace and tranquility" in my village in south west nigeria is due to the idol worshippers. You can see you are the one equating idol worshipping to allah-worshipping. After all, if the "peace/tranquility" in Daura is due to allah-worshipping, then I can assume that the "peace/tranquility" in my village is probably due to idol worshipping. Then allah and the idols are co-equal: that is probably right; I am convinced from a lot of posts I have read on this forum about the evidence of idolatory in Islam.
But try and open up your mind; the quiteness of Daura and my village is simply because they are both economic backwaters, and nothing to do with 'allah and the other idols'. Logical thinking, bro.

belloti:

You guys are not fair to islam. We all know that you don't like Islam but i don't think you need to go to that extent to prove that. Our women are special to us either as mothers, sisters or wives, why on earth can we gain satisfaction by inflicting injuries upon them?. Cant you see we are humans like you too and we can't just be irrational to the extent of sanctioning rape. Rape in any language or dialect is wrong and unacceptable. And we do love our women too.

[b]Islam is not fair to women.
If you have another name for the distribution of women as booties for mens sexual gratification after they were captured in a war,give it to us.

No one says you do not love your wife,mother,sisters or daughters you as belotti most likely does,I have no reason to say otherwise.
It is the proper thing to do whether you are religious or not.
But this goes beyond you and your personal outlook.

When a religion sanctions the seizure of women and copulation with them as stated above by a learned imam,that is not love.
That is lustful,sexual perversion AKA rape.
It is dehumanising to a woman and should be condemned.

You would not want such a treatment to your beloved sisters,wives and mothers.
Those women in that condition also had people who loved them before being forced into such a horrid situation,whether they be Christians or idol worshippers does not make them commodities and objects of physical gratification by muslim warriors.

Any attempt by you or Nuru to give a soft face to this sordid act does not change the fact that these women were taken against their will.
The fact that your prophet Muhammad participated in these escapades does not make it holy.
Time we called a spade a spade.[/b]

nuru wrote

In all the spurious replies, no one has been able to prove that the women referenced in the Hadith were raped. Rather you have shown how generous the Muslim captors could be to their maids. Remember that was a society where girl-children used to be buried alive. If Islam could start the reorientation of the people towards dealing justly and treating with dignity not just the free women, but captive maids, I wonder what moral right anybody has to label those who propagated Islam as rapists. You have to look at the historical perspective without prejudice and concede at least that the emergence of Islam emancipated the world.

So Mr Nuru,the way Muhammad and his gang dignified these captured women as you stated above was by sleeping with them whether they wanted it or not,outside of marriage.
How dare you try to soften this by talking about these caravan marauders as saviour of girl children.
So they raided their towns,killed off the males and older women,took young girls as booties to save them from being killed.
You are digging your grave deeper.
Thankfully not all muslim men (I hope) see this as a holy act.

why you should take whatever a muslim tells you with a grain of salt

http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/koran5.html

@babyosisi,

babyosisi:

why you should take whatever a musli tells you with a grain of salt

http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/koran5.html

You just anticpated me! Lol, I was coming to that issue about Al-taqiyya in order to bring mr nuru to level ground.

@nuru,

nuru:

In all the spurious replies, no one has been able to prove that the women referenced in the Hadith were raped. Rather you have shown how generous the Muslim captors could be to their maids.

If one were auditioning for a comedy stand-up comic, you would win - hands down. Did you realise the joker you were in referring to the murder and lewd sex of Muhammad's companions as a matter of "how generous" the Muslim captors were? They took captives to rounds of sexcoitus interruptus after having pillaged their villages and settlements, killed their families, and subjected them to mental and physical trauma - and you call that "generous"??

Thankfully, not many muslims are as comical.

nuru:

Remember that was a society where girl-children used to be buried alive. If Islam could start the reorientation of the people towards dealing justly and treating with dignity not just the free women, but captive maids, I wonder what moral right anybody has to label those who propagated Islam as rapists. You have to look at the historical perspective without prejudice and concede at least that the emergence of Islam emancipated the world.

What a laugh. The emergence of Islam "emancipated" which world - the fictional utopia in your dream? The so-called "emancipation" is evident in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and a host of the "world" where Islam has been entrenched centuries after its emergence.

A muslimah (or, morchidat) on the forum has posited that "Islam is changing" (mukina2, 2nd to the last paragrapgh). We know it evidently is changing - because nothing has improved since the emergence of the "religion of peace" that has been so "generous" to divide women for coitus interruptus after killing their husbands. That is a 21st century definition of nuru's "emancipation!" Any more??

***shakes head is bewilderment, muttering the words 'emancipation' and 'generous'

People that are blind and also perverts at heart have accused holy men. They disregard all historical facts and just because of the fleeting life of this world reject the truth. I pity you all, but I am praying, praying that one day you will accept Islam and see the goodness you have denied yourself all these years.

@nuru,

Would you please try and grow up instead of making blank statements that you cannot defend.

First, it was your idea that Muhammad's companions sought consent before having coitus interruptus with theit captives - and you have failed time and again to answer the question to provide your evidence thereto.

Then it was your idea that Muhammad's pillaging settlements and dividing the victims was describing "how generous" he was - and again you failed to defend your statement.

This robotic al-Taqiyya that you're bantering about is not helping your responses; and to come back sounding accusative is even worse. If there's nothing sound in your musings, were it not more dignified that you never attempt them in the first place?