Fighter Pilot:

Otomat does not have any combat history, it has never been used anywhere by any navy in the whole world. Umkhonto is highly optimised and proven to stop any sea skimming missiles and now that does not exclude otomat. You will run out of your Otomat and soon be left out of nothing to stop the valour class.

DENEL is avoiding testing Umkhonto against a sea skimming 6 feet on water level missile...because south african umkhonto missile will fail that test

Otomat missile has many combat tests in both america and europe against a big ship and against all american navy anti-missile defences and Otomat of nigeria passed all these tests with 100% victory

Fighter Pilot:

Nobody is disputing by saying that Roland missiles cannot hit the fouth generation fighters.

Fighter Pilot:

Moreover, it will only be a craziest commander who can use expensive missile to stop cheap free falling bombs. My friend, you should never consider military as a career in your entire life because you will compromise your armies with such an approach. Military is not your field, you just good wherever you are employed.

andrewza: I would respond to augstien but he has not menstion one piece of new infomastion. Just reapting his same *crap*

agaugust:



hahaha

you messed up really bad bro !

...why should i not challenge an indian in science ? i made grade A in all my sciences in high school

come to the nigerian classroom again, you want to know why you should n ot challenge a nigerian in sciences ? this is why .....

i never said Umbani speed will remain permanent at 35 km/h, i know a basic physics formula for acceleration, v = u + at

v = final velocity
u = initial velocity
t = time in seconds
a = acceleration

for free fall objects falling coming down in a straight line, it is a different calculation from a gliding object like umbani bomb (call it any name, munition or bomb, it reamins a guided bomb and not a guided missile for ever and ever...amen !)

the free fall bomb has no calculation of air resistance in that your childish arithmetical formula of your 33% indian south african brain.

you are very wrong !!!

the correct formula for umbani bomb speed is different because its is NOT free fall and faces air resistance and its own engine/propulsion drag/resistance due to its guidance control that alters its directions trying to locate a specific target, it also rises up slowly and drops down slowly at intervals trying to maneuver to its target on the ground.

the standard final velocity calculation you used by adding up 9.8 m/s many times per every second is very very wrong

" Falling cannon balls are not actually free falling - they are subject to air resistance and would fall at different terminal velocities."

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/mofall.html

the increasing velocity will stop increasing after only 5 seconds



"In all cases, the body is assumed to start from rest, and air resistance is neglected. Generally, in Earth's atmosphere, all results below will therefore be quite inaccurate after only 5 seconds of fall (at which time an object's velocity will be a little less than the vacuum value of 49 m/s (9.8 m/s² × 5 s) due to air resistance).

Air resistance induces a drag force on any body that falls through any atmosphere other than a perfect vacuum, and this drag force increases with velocity until it equals the gravitational force, leaving the object to fall at a constant terminal velocity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equations_for_a_falling_body

please never try again to challenge superior nigerian brains on sciences, reason they call us the giant of africa is not only in population numbers but also in brain quality

you are so careless you did not notice that DENEL did not give details of specific speed of umbani guided bomb because of the issues of complexities due to drag, air resistance, and upward-downward occasional maneuvers trying to locate a target.

the best speed you will ever get from a falling air gliding umbani guided bomb will be about 80km/h and it will be shot down and wasted by the very many and deadly nigerian air defences flying missiles at about 2,000 km/h and AAA multiple barrel air defence guns/cannon firing over 1,000 shells per minutes and muzzle shell velocity of 4,000 km/h.


let me hear you again saying that civilians are cannot equal military men on battlefield....say it again while i educate you with the video below.....

paveway guided bomb is the same technology basics as umbani and south african Gripen jets use the paveway guided bomb as at today...notice the slow speed that will make the bomb easy cheap breakfast for nigerian Type 90 air defence and anti-missile artillery guns...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRRXK7QnxaU

agaugust:

tell your fellow soweto fools to stop dragging me backwards to G6 artillery 70km range vs Palmaria, Roland SAM vs Gripen, Otomat vs Umkhonto.

i dont repeat old posts unless you fools ask for it by posting misleading information to confuse innocent readers

.

agaugust:

Paveway or Umbani guided bomb is expensive too, like Roland missile.

in war, objective if more important than money. Argentina used a Roland missile to shoot down two British Harrier jet bombs in Falklands war, just to achieve objective of keeping the airport runway available for Argentine air force jets to operate.

your military head-thinking faculty is equal to that of a potato farmer

anyway , i never said nigeria must use Roland to shoot down south african guided bombs.

nigerian SAM-7 , BlowPipe SAM, and Type 90 ultra-modern anti-aircraft guns will do the job of wasting south african guided bombs before they reach target.

nigerian air defence is just too solid for any african airforce to penetrate, even Egypt will lose almost all its air force if it dares to enter nigerian air defence systems....and ultar-modern Akash SAM with 35km range is also coming to join the already powerful nigerian army air defences

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Fighter Pilot:

Man, the science that they teach you in Nigeria is rotten. Was that what you were always bragging about? You clearly misled people by assuming that bombs will hang up on the same velocity until I challenged you. Perhaps, you never knew any basics about free falling objects. Who brought up 9.8m/s gravitational acceleration of falling objects? Was it me or you.

You have never mentioned anything that the speed will increase with time. It seems to me that you are master of all trade, you've achieved Grade A in science, you are a chartered accountant, an MBA graduate and hopefully next time you will even tell us that you have a PhD. Tell us what is it that you don't know mister? People who have achieved like you will never waste their time on military discourse nor rather reason like you do. Such people are very articulate and dominate the corporate world with intelligence.

agaugust:

Gripen jet has no combat history

Valour frigate has no combat history

Rooivalk helicopter has no combat history

Umkhonto missile has no combat history

the few tests for Umkhonto missile was against drones/UAV, not a sea skimming 6 feet above water anti-ship missile like Otomat.

DENEL is avoiding testing Umkhonto against a sea skimming 6 feet on water level missile...because south african umkhonto missile will fail that test

Otomat missile has many combat tests in both america and europe against a big ship and against all american navy anti-missile defences and Otomat of nigeria passed all these tests with 100% victory

i just posted all these 2 weeks ago, why should i reapeat it ? go ask @andrewza and @saengine if they will be honest at least for once ant tell the truth openly.

you are delaying my NAF vs SAN air to deep ocean war simulation post for today by dragging me back to posts i had spent my time writing in the past.

you soweto guys are a bunch of fools

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Fighter Pilot:

Umbani is more cost effective than missiles and South Africa has more of them in stock.

agaugust:

SAM-7 missile is very cheap too and even civilian rebels have it.

BlowPipe missile is very cheap as well

Type 90 AAA cannon fires cheap but deadly chinese cannon shells

all these 3 nigerian air defences are cheaper by far than south african Umbani bombs....

...bring your guided bombs and let us waste them for you sir. thanks

.

Fighter Pilot:

Nigeria military has never fired any missile in their history even in practice. Who do you think they are going to defeat with such a bad record. South African hardwares always see action in Lohatla battle school with live missiles fired. How sure are you if your Rolands and Otomats are still in good condition. Missiles, especially otomats requires to be maintained atleast once a year. The question is does Nigeria know how to operate missile technology?

Fighter Pilot:

You will waste your limited number of your missiles for something that is way cheaper to manufacture than a missile. Your poor Roland radar system will be jammed and air strike operations will be conducted only at night where your optical guidance system is irrelevant. Don't tell me about Air defence Artillery Guns which are only effective to a very low flying aircrafts and helicopters. Such we can destroy without any hesitation.

agaugust:


if you dont have a brain to think and do mathematics, i will help you with my own for some minutes

even now your DENEL manufacturer did not give a specific speed of Umbani guided bomb because of the issues of calculating its speed complexities due to drag, air resistance, and upward-downward occasional maneuvers trying to locate a target.

i repeat, Umbani speed is 35 km/h initial velocity at zero start up from rest and it may end its final velocity at that same speed of 35km/h if the guidance system does the upward-downward random swing to eliminate the gain on velocity of the first 5 seconds after which velocity no longer increases. the video at the end of reading this post. i proved my point.

the only speed anyone can quote for Umbani bomb without error is the 35km/h based on minimum speed gravity can help to achieve.

the maximum 80km/h speed assumes no guidance maneuver of the usual upward-downward movement that makes it to lose the speed it gains from gravity pull when coming down, then now going back upward again. the falling and rising will reduce its final speed near target possibly back to near the initial 35 km/h.

i am very correct. i am still the only person that boldly used science to calculate the speed variations of a guided bomb from initial speed to final speed at 35 km/h start to about 80 km/h finish if not swinging up and down again and again, or else it ends its runs at about the same initial 35 km/h. FACT !!!

show me a source that quotes the speed of Umbani....show me that DENEL source or any other source....

it is impossible to find it .

I have f.i.n.i.s.h.e.d you again today

name : @Fighter Pilot
qualification : Bachelors degree in Military Agricultural science.
occupation : Air Force Officer Potato Farmer
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agaugust:


please stop dragging me backwards to old posts i have argued and concluded with @andrewza and others many months ago. i am getting tired of this forum for this foolish trend of repeating the same post and answering the same question 77 times in 7 weeks.


some missiles last 45 years in service. missiles have storage rules that make them last long.

in year 2002 Morocco's navy purchased 1970 version MM38 Exocet missiles second hand condition from France.

http://portal.sipri.org/publications/pages/transfer/trade-register


there is no source in the world that says military forces MUST test fire their missiles in peace time before they use them in war time, it is a matter of choice.

south africa has only 17 Exocet missiles for 4 Valour warships instead of the minimum 32 required for the 4 warships.

how many few Exocets are remaining now since you say south african navy have been test firing the missiles already 50% short of the numbers needed ? fool

no rule says all military forces must test fire their missiles in peace time. it is a matter of choice.

bring your soweto ships near lagos and let us see how they will be kissed by NNS Aradu Otomat missiles. your sailors that witness the event will narrate the story in heaven...or hell

nigerian junior/senior military officers and their admirals, generals, marshals, are contantly training and retraining in America, Germany, France, India, China, Britain, Israel, Italy, etc

nigerian navy has no submarine and is training for submarine combat on Pakistani navy submarines, already learning to use the weapons it does not even have yet. how much more the weapons it already has for many years ? fool

only a fool like you will think that type of navy is not training to use the missiles it has on simulator or with other navies.

find another story to tell, you just wasted my whole day today and i have not even started writing the new NAF vs SAN frigates air to sea combat simulation...you this foolish time waster !

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agaugust:

i have to say you are a mad.man and i.nsane i.diot trying to drag me 6 months backwards into old posts of how Roland SAM shot down modern Tornado advanced British supersonic jet with all its jammimg defences, and how anti-aircraft guns shot down american F-15/F-16 supersonic jets in Iraq.... fool

i will just ignore you now.
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agaugust:

i have to say you are a mad.man and i.nsane i.diot trying to drag me 6 months backwards into old posts of how Roland SAM shot down modern Tornado advanced British supersonic jet with all its jammimg defences, and how anti-aircraft guns shot down american F-15/F-16 supersonic jets in Iraq.... fool

i will just ignore you now.
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Fighter Pilot:

That jet was surely shot from an optical mode of engagement, because if it was from a radar mode it would have warned the pilot long before he could land in a trap.

Nobody disputed the fact that Roland SAMs can shoot down fighters, even F22- Raptors can be shot by Roland. My argument though is its system is easy to beat.

Drill number 1: jam its vulnerable radar system.
Drill number 2: Launch your airstrikes only at night when its only active mode is dysfunctional.

Is that not easy?

The drill above has proven to work and is what defeated Saddam's dense Roland Air defence system.

agaugust:

Fool

that only works for Roland 1, but nigeria has Roland 2 all weather all day all night optical or radar version.

"Roland 1 - This is the fair-weather daylight-only, version used by the French and Spanish armies on the AMX-30R chassis.

Roland 2 - This is the all-weather version employed on the AMX-30R and Marder chassis and also as a shelter mount in either a static location or mounted on a 6x6 or 8x8 all-terrain truck. Euromissile, MaK, IBH and Blohm and Voss of Germany in 1983 proposed the Leopard 1 tank chassis as a carrier for the Roland system to appeal to those countries who already used the Leopard I tank.

Nigeria acquired 16 Roland 2 systems on the AMX-30R chassis"

nigerian army Roland version 2 SAM will shoot down the whole south african air force in 5 minutes, and mandela will no air force any more !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_(missile)

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Fighter Pilot:

Surely, you have never seen missile before. Roland1, 2 , 3 all have the same mode of operation of engaging the target. What differs only is that one can be used in only clear whether and another during rainy and windy conditions, while the third has an extended range. All Roland system can be penetrated easily without any fuss no wonder the manufacturer also fitted it with an alternative mode of operation which unfortunately can only be operated during the day. Many countries have replaced Rolands many years ago because of its air defence instability while others retained it but supplemented it with new SAMs systems.

I am not going to blame you, all Nigerians from Generals down to their privates have never fired any missiles before, no wonder you do not even know what is the difference between all weather missiles and an ordinary missile. Now, I wonder who is a fool now.

Fighter Pilot:

Let me just give you a friendly advice, never ever challenge any person with Asian decent in science for your whole miserable life again. Your intelligence has its boundries in Nigeria and that is where it ends. You want to know which missile is faster between missile Mokopa and Roland. I will challenge you to employ your Newton's law of projecting objects (projectiles) and apply your mind. A body is thrown vertically upwards with a velocity of 30m/s, calculate how far will the ball go? The correct equation to use will be S=ut + 1/2gt2.

Now, this is common knowledge that all projecting bodies decelerate/r.etard with -9m/s2 for every second of their journey until they reach their apex. On contrary, mokopa will be boosted by acceleration of nature which is +9.8m/s every second of its flight.

Nobody is disputing that Roland missiles cannot hit the fouth generation fighters. What we are trying to elucidate is that it poses more disadvantages than benefits at this age of time. The only effective mode of Roland's target engagement is through its weak radar system which can be detected easily and be jammed. Infact, all 4th generation fighters are fitted with radar detectors and most of them are hit through optical mode of engagement.
Of All those hits by Roland missile were through optical mode that I bet you my friend and such a mode can be rendered useless at night.

Fighter Pilot:

Let me just give you a friendly advice, never ever challenge any person with Asian decent in science for your whole miserable life again. Your intelligence has its boundries in Nigeria and that is where it ends. You want to know which missile is faster between missile Mokopa and Roland. I will challenge you to employ your Newton's law of projecting objects (projectiles) and apply your mind. A body is thrown vertically upwards with a velocity of 30m/s, calculate how far will the ball go? The correct equation to use will be S=ut + 1/2gt2.

Now, this is common knowledge that all projecting bodies decelerate/r.etard with -9m/s2 for every second of their journey until they reach their apex. On contrary, mokopa will be boosted by acceleration of nature which is +9.8m/s every second of its flight.

Nobody is disputing that Roland missiles cannot hit the fouth generation fighters. What we are trying to elucidate is that it poses more disadvantages than benefits at this age of time. The only effective mode of Roland's target engagement is through its weak radar system which can be detected easily and be jammed. Infact, all 4th generation fighters are fitted with radar detectors and most of them are hit through optical mode of engagement.
Of All those hits by Roland missile were through optical mode that I bet you my friend and such a mode can be rendered useless at night.

agaugust:

you are still the fool

the Roland detailed specifications calls Roland 1 the daylight only version.

it does NOT list nigerian Roland 2 as a daylight only version....simple common sense tells you version 2 is both night and day version.

people dont have to write every single sentence for you to understand simple things, try use your head sometimes, when they tell you A,B,C, you should know that the next alphabets are D,E,F...unless as a fool, you cannot think outside a closed box

fool of soweto, nigerian Roland 2 optical targeting works at night because it is NOT an ordinary human eye sight system, it is Electro-Optical with Infra Red night time targeting equipment computer controlled....fool

QUOTE :

"The ROLAND 2 weapon system is intended for anti-aircraft defence..... ROLAND ensures the overall defense of a zone of 100 sq km it, comprises a radar with a range of 16 km, a sighting-optical tube with an infra-red locator that measures the difference between the missile in flight and the line of sight of the fire control radar, and a computer antenna for remote control.

After the firing, the optics remain pointed at the target, the computer generates the commands for guidance by using two different groups of measurements while adding to the result preceding the commands necessary to the correction by the real variations of the missile compared to the axis of aiming measured by the infra-red goniometer (optical mode) ."

nigerian Roland SAM will shoot down the whole south african air force in only 5 minutes in day time or night time, FACT !!!

Roland missile has 80% chance of hitting target confirmed in the specifications from source quoted below.

QUOTE :

"
Surface to Air (SAM) Roland II
Range
maximum: 6 000 m
minimal: 700 to 2 000 m according to the Ceiling
Altitude, (m) 5,500
Basic load on vehicle 10 missiles
(2 per launcher)
Detection range, km 16.5
Reaction time, sec 4-10
Firing time, sec
1st shooting: 8 to 10 seconds
later shooting: 2 to 6 seconds
Speed Mach 1.6
Reload time approximately 10 second
Probability of hit 80%

"

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/roland.htm

now we all know you are the senior fool, and your two south african friends who liked that your foolish post are your deputy fool and assistant fool

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souldust: @fighterpilot it seems the Asian is the one who should not be challenging Blacks when it comes to science.

First, a body thrown vertically upward isnt a projectile since it only has a veritical component. A projectile is a body which when thrown, follows a parabolic path. Such bodies are under the influence of two forces: veritcal and hosizontal forces. Dont take my word for it, you can find out from credible independent sources.

Secondly, there isnt anyway we can calculate for how far the body would go since you didnt give a time (t) in the little problem you put up there.

Thirdly, the formula you gave S=UT+1/2gtsquared, cannot be used to solve for any of the fundamentals of projectile. The fundamentals being: Height (H), Time of flight (T) and Range (R). That formula cannot be used to solve for all the above listed fundamentals because it does not take into consideration the angle of projection.

I hope you have taken a nice lesson from Black people. People you claim are intellectually inferior. People who,according to you, are only good at singing, jumping, running and stealing.

Pls dont take my words for it. Try to find out from credible independent sources.

chris365:

not overun but constantly being attacked. And so far they did not manage to kill all insurgents in all the attacks.

Who told you any Nigerian military base was overran?

chris365:

dude, lemme make it clear to you. Even if your artillery guns are placed 80km away from us, our military satelites will still pick your locations, special forces will do a recce and pin your artillery locations for return and precise hit, we position our artillery and motars, and the rest is history (while you'll just be wastin shells from 70km away since even your binoculars will not see such a distance)

agaugust:

...because your tiny brain is thinking that 150,000 nigerian army with 5,000 armoured vehicles/off road terrain vehicles will all foolishly line up in a straight line in front of south african G6 artillery like a line of ants walking back into their ground hole

that nigerian army will be in formations of about 200 different battalions moving against south africa in many different directions out-flanking your tiny manpower shortage crippled army from north , south, east and west until we en-circle, surround, envelope and finally swallow you up like a swarm of heavily armed honey bees.

go ask Egypt how Israel surrounded and cut off a whole 3rd army of Egypt

go ask America and the whole United Nations armies why they all ran away from China's army trying to encircle them in Korean war

go ask South Africa why your army rushed to peace negotiation table when Cuba almost encircled your useless army at Cuito, why did your G6 artillery 70km unnecessary range not save your useless SADF army from the hands of 40,000 inexperienced youth/conscript Cuban soldiers....nigeria has 150,000 soldiers and 10 times better war experience than tiny Cuba.

nigerian 50 palmaria mobile artillery needs only about 40 minutes drive in and close the range gap completely.

what even makes you think armies of the world are always 70km magical range distant away from each other in a real war ?

were Seleka rebels 70km away from south african army when they dfeated your army in CAR 6 months ago ? fool

no army can see the enemy they want to shell from 70km distance away, but nigerian space spy satellites, spy balloons, and ATR-42 Surveyor surface search aircraft will see ALL south african artillery forces over 100 km away and out-maneuver you completely by sending our infantry and motorized battalions to attack you from the flanks by surprise.

south african army is blind as a bat when they fight....no satellite, no balloon, no ATR-42 Surveyor

dont try use drones because nigerian army Roland SAM, Shilka radar AAA, ans Type 90 AAA in our anti-aircraft battalions will shoot down and waste ALL south african drones in a few minutes.

anyway can you please stop wasting our time on this thread by repeating the same old s.tupid comments and making others have to repeat old replies ? or is your fathers' second wife 'doing you remote brain control'

please shut up mr policeman, go fight armed robbers robbing and r.aping soweto women...fire still burns in soweto even after apartheid

stop wasting our time with silly posts if you are not having m.ental p.roblems upstairs

please do us a favour, stop making us repeat posts. thanks

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agaugust:

he is obsessed and possessed by a few 46 units of south african 70km range G6 artillery that could NOT win the war against inexperienced army of Cuba in Angola bush war.

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agaugust:

RPG too much ? well it seems so, but we cannot judge a whole Kenyan army General from our laptops at home, he has better intelligence reports about his battle field.

anyway, Israel has proved to the whole world that the only language a terrorist understands is terror....so give him a dose of his own medicine.

rumours say nigerian army may be sent to help Kenyan army on anti-terrorism operations. big brother nigeria, powerhouse of AFRICA !

south africa is NOT even saying anything about helping kenya....cowards of soweto

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