zaandrew:


and the lack of radar is a problem how? most attack choppers do not carry them and i have stated befor it is the only thing the apachy has on the rooivalk

no it does not, why does the piloit need to find any thing. when the mokape was being test from the rooivalk the used a ground team to lase the target and the rooival fierd in a lock on after launch mode. and if a apachy had to fly arround with it's radar on it would be shouting here i am.

your south african army ground team will be inside nigerian army occupied positions ? we can also put our soldiers inside south african army base too. use your head dumbo

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zaandrew:

...

i will later reply your foolish submarine warfare post of yesterday, i just finished dealing with that @Mike..ZA the comedian who tries to be a soldier

agaugust:


sorry dude, you were actually crushing your own tiny balls and they are already leaking like a broken bag of pure water

i will answer your posts number by number same way you raised your foolish points.


1. Roland missile of nigeria shot down two supersonic 2,400 km/hr speed NATO Tornado jets in combat, you failed there my boy .

"Iraq is believed to have received 100 Rolands, and a Roland SAM is believed to have shot down 2 Panavia Tornado jet aircraft during Operation Desert Storm"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland-(missile)


next, you CANNOT use a slow speed Rooivalk helicopter against a Roland that shoots down the most powerful jet fighters in the world. it will foolishness and calamity for the south air force to try that with nigeria.

Rooivalk helicopter has NO RADAR dude !

your soweto helicopter fires only by sight and seeing target.

"The Rooivalk is not equipped with a fire control radar,” says Van Rooyen, unlike the AH-64D Apache and the Tiger. the Rooivalk is only fitted with an electro-optical sight system which incorporates a FLIR and a TV sensor, targets are only found by aided sight."

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/the-rebirth-of-the-rooivalk-2011-05-20


abuja's Roland anti-aircraft missile has a radar range of 18km, we see your Rooivalk helicopter from far away 18km, now dude, that is death !

your 10km range mokopa missile is just a useless distance, Rooivalk needs to come close to Roland SAM and to find it by electro-aided eye sight and lock on it and keep on locking while it exposes itself to Roland anti-aircraft missiles. even the mighty world best Apache long bow helicopter gunship radar range for targeting is only 8km so it has to get closer than 8km to the target.

Rooivalk is even worse, it will be less than 5km to the target to find, identify, and confirm the Roland target because Rolands usually hide like other air defences under heavy camouflage nets, or behind buildings, or in the bush, see sample photo below .

Roland has 18km radar and 8 km missile....all your eleven Rooivalk helicopters will not survive 2 minutes with a our deadly Roland SAM....fool !

Roland radar range 18km vs Rooivalk zero radar and its 10km mokopa anti-tank missile. Roland sees Rooivalk 18km away, watches if ATGM missile fired to show its being seen by rooivalk, switches off radar, turns on electro optical all weather all night/day, drives off to another location by say 100m away.

Rooivalk cannot see Roland camoflagued in bush or city behind tall buildings unless Rooivalk moves to close visual range and identify the Roland like 5km then Roland miissile fires and roasts all your Rooivalk helicopters in 2 minutes.

even nigerian Type 90 computerized anti-aircraft guns with over 6km range will shoot down all south african Rooivalk helicopters with ease.


2. Umbani guided bomb of south africa has NO RADAR too dude !

Umbani too is only laser guided and needs an aircraft to help it illuminate the target on ground, so how does your Hawk jets find a Roland without getting close to it and being shot down like a mosquito facing Baygon insecticide

Hawk jet has NO RADAR to fire control support a 120km bomb, and the bomb does not even allow radar guidance, so how does it travel 120km to the exact target Roland that is hidden deep inside enemy territory of nigerian army ?

dont let the shiny paints on south african weapons fool you, they have very many limitations and weaknesses that you guys never research into.

so your laser cannot find Roland, your Paveway II and Umbani slow speed guided bombs are a waste when you face a powerful country like nigeria. go try your bombs on Burundi or Namibia


3. see mister comdey ,a CRAM (Counter Rocket Artillery Mortar) is for stopping very high speed ammunition like rockets, shells, and mortars that fly at about 3,000 km/hr high speed, NOT your snail speed slow Umbani guided bomb of speed 80 km/hr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_Rocket,_Artillery,_and_Mortar

nigerian Type 90 anti-aircraft gun has muzzle velocity speed of fire about 4,000 km/hr and is designed to shoot down even cruise missile.

"The weapon was designed to engage high-speed, low-flying aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) and cruise missiles."

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/antiaircraft/type90towed35mm.asp

ordinary nigerian anti-aircraft guns alone will shoot down all south african slow speed guided bombs, anytime, any day FACT !!!!

4. there is no number 4 in your comments....your leaking balls must be paining you seriously


5. where will your south african special forces be to be lighting up nigerian weapons with lasers, inside nigerian army base or what ?
okay then maybe i can say nigerian special forces too will be operating inside south african army base ? fool

6. the same death i explained for your Hawk jets, also awaits your Gripen jets, i wont waste readers time on this forum again with Roland vs Gripen simulation, your soldiers have agreed we will shoot down your nice looking jets and waste your money.

7. i answered that in number 3 above.

now that your two balls have been crushed by nigerians, how will you give your wife 'belle' ?

.

Where those jets flying at super sonic speeds? Since when was the crapy torndo the most powerfull? Why is the rooivalk the scout? Recon is not part of its job discribstion.

Use the aircraft radar, or tracking the radstion of the rolands radar, or high powerd recon pods. Once target is found drop the bombs from 10km since you just hid the roland they not going any where fast. You really have no idea how presction bombs are used do you.

Only if you radar that being activly jamed can pick up the small bomb coming it's way. And even then there was no menstion of shooting down bombs.


SF team can be KM way useing powerfull optics to do the job. What experiance in this does your SF have?

It is so easy to expose your total ignorance.

agaugust:

your south african army ground team will be inside nigerian army occupied positions ? we can also put our soldiers inside south african army base too. use your head dumbo

.

Would not be the first time our SF and tatical intelgiance guys have done it. And what experiance in this does your SF have.

zaandrew:

Would not be the first time our SF and tatical intelgiance guys have done it. And what experiance in this does your SF have.

ngerian army special forces sneaked on boko haram leader shekau's secret hidden forest/jungle base on top of a mountain and we killed him, he did not know nigerian army had crept into his stronghold.

you are foolish enough to ask what experience nigerian special forces have, your south african special forces never found seleka leaders base or even smell it from a distance.

south african army's old SADF 1980s angola bush war special forces are almost all old and retired by now and gone with all their experience.

today's current south african special forces have no combat record and NO combat experience. who did they fight in war ? who ?

nigerian army's current special forces have been fighting combat and recce against boko haram for 4 years now and have sneaked unseen and undiscovered to spy and fight and snipe in jungles and mountains after their other war experience against niger d.elta militants for about 10 years in year 2000 to 2010 inside thick mangrove swamps and jungles every day fighting about 30,000 m.ilitants.

nigeria has the most experienced special forces in Africa, south africa's current special forces have almost ZERO combat experience, they just pose for @THIZA's photographs and get paid monthly salary for sleeping with their wives at home in soweto.

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EXERCISE TSARON TEKU INAUGURATED BY THE CHIEF OF THE NAVAL STAFF
Posted: 2013-12-13 12:28:44



The Chief of the Naval Staff, Vice Admiral Dele Joseph Ezeoba has inaugurated the planning conference for an Exercise code –named  “TSARON TEKU” at the conference room of the Naval Headquarters Abuja on 13 December 2013.

In his brief remark before declaring the deliberations open, the CNS who was represented by the Chief of Policy and Plans of the Naval Headquarters, Rear Admiral Emmanuel Ogbor welcomed the representatives of the five (5) participating countries namely, Cameroun, Togo, Ghana, Benin Republic and Nigeria to the brief. He then emphasised the need for affected countries in the sub region to look inwards in solving issues of maritime insecurity rather than always relying on foreign assistance. The CNS described the proposed exercise as commendable and urged all participants to contribute meaningfully to the deliberations so as to ensure a successful exercise.

Giving a presentation on the Exercise Scenario, Captain MM Bashir stated that Exercise “TSARON TEKU” which in Hausa language means “Protection of the Sea” is aimed at curbing smuggling, illegal bunkering, piracy, poaching and hijacking in the Gulf of Guinea. Nigerian forces expected to take part in the Exercise are NNS THUNDER, NNS ZARIA,NNS BURUTU, NNS OLOGBO, 2 Nigerian Navy Agusta Helos, Nigerian Army and the Nigerian Air Force. Similarly, other participating countries will be expected to contribute 2 Ships each for the Exercise.

The Exercise which is expected to take place in the last week of February 2014, will involve several manouvores like anti-piracy, anti-illegal bunkering and search and rescue amongst many others. The Exercise will stretch from Ghanian waters to Cameroonian waters.

Also speaking at the inauguration, the Director of Operations of the Naval Headquarters, Rear Admiral JO Okojie emphasised the fact that Exercise TSARON TEKU will create opportunities for West African navies to work together and thus enhance collaboration in solving the issues facing the Gulf of Guinea.

zaandrew:

Considering we sailed a submarine without a escort to south amerca I do not see how nigiera is a challenge.

was that in a war ? you sailed submarine to Brazil for friendly visit, same way Nigeria sailed NNS Thunder alone to Australia for friendly visit.

.

[size=16pt]modern sea warfare : ships vs submarines[/size]

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zaandrew:


There are only 2 types of ships. Submarines and targets.


Since when is the ottmat stealthy, it is very unstealthy. I mean it is a big missiel no radar guided missiel is stealth since the use of radar is like shout I am here over a megaphone.

Suface to air means it shoots things down in the sky missiels fly in the sky thuse are targets. Not to menstion they bossted the range to 20km and the umkhonto has a secondary land attack role.

Anti missiel miessiel? The umkhonto was built to target air craft, drones, missiels, small boats, and a host of othere targets.

Modernday submariens are not the same has ww2 subs. That like compairing WW1 biplanes to modern jets.

There are certain jobs that subs just can not do. They execel at one thing sea denneail. You need surface ships for all other roles.

Yet that diessiel still out manvourses them. Not to menstion your NN does not have modern sonar.

Falcklands war, sub 1 surface ship zero,

It not that simple, a sub can evade a torpedo far better than a ship.

That why you wait for the surface ship. If the taget is say capetown you lay in wait let it come to you. Submarine warfare is hours of boring nothing with a few minuents of acstions. If the people on this forum are a reflecstion of nigeria your eagerness would make you a poor submarine users.

You do not use speed to out run them.

It showws how you used another appel v orgen comparsion. But that a standard of yours.

When last did your lynx fly?

2014? Nigerians invented time machines? Please show exactly what sytems are on your lynx?

This is not ww2, subs can now spend days under water and only come up to perscope depth to snorkal

You are fool.

submarine and targets is an old saying popularized by submariners who think they are invincible and cannot be killed, they should go as their colleagues from the 300 sunken U-boat submarines whose final graveyard is in the bottom of the sea where mammy water is watching over them.

Otomat anti-ship missile is partially stealth as i said because skims on ocean surface at only about 6 feet above water and it is passive with no use of radar in flight until only 6 km from the target activates the on-board radar to reduce reaction time from the target, that is partial stealth, very hard to detect.

you said umkhonto anti-aircraft missile is built to target small boats ! you must be a real navy chef/cook
your over-rated anti aircraft missile has suddenly been re-named as an anti-ship missile, you think we are fools here ?

umkhonto missile is ONLY designed to fight aircraft or cruise missiles in the air, NOT anything on the sea water surface. DENEL never tested it against any sea hugging enemy weapon. click and read the words on the photo below and stop deceiving yourself man !

it says "Umkhonto missile is speciafically designed for providing defense against air attacks from aircraft and missiles", it does NOT say defense against sea attacks from anti-ship missile, or in your own small brain an Otomat anti-ship missile kissing the surface of the ocean water is an air attack ? fool

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7627/ordsamumkhontoirmissile.jpg


why did the British navy HMS Sheffield in 1982 falkaland war with all her powerful radars did not see Argentina's Exocet anti-ship missile and the jet fighter that launched it until few minutes close to the British ship and then sank the ship ? the Etendard jet and its Exocet missile were sea skimming, thats why sank the powerful British warship unseen until too late to stop them.

why did British ship HMS Sheffield not use her powerful high speed Sea Dart anti-aircraft missiles 3 times faster than the enemy's Exocet anti-ship missile to defend herself and stop Argentina's 3 times slower Exocet antiship missile that sunk the British ship ? you dont know how real combat is fought dude !

Umkhonto missile is built to defend against AIR ATTACK NOT SEA ATTACK, you south african fools !


now to submarines vs warships.


my post contained detailed analysis of speed and ranges of NNS Aradu, Type 209 Submarine, and their Torpedoes. i used basic mathematical calculations to simulate combat between both of them using all their basic technical details, then you did no calculations and comparison, you just picked your laptop and speak out your mind like a real navy cook chef that is better with tomatoes and onions than with combat weapons.

a hidden submerged south african submarine can only run at 7km/hr snail slow speed, while NNS Aradu can run at about 70 km/hr. your submarine will fire a torpedo and its position is not hidden any more, it is revealed. if ARADU fires back with her own torpedo that moves at about 45km/hr, then your submarine cannot escape ARADU's torpedo while ARADU can out-run your own Torpedo.

NNS ARADU can send its Lyxn anti-submarine helicopter to fish out and sink your submarine.

death is almost guaranteed for any submarine who's position is discovered when it tries to attack a ship.


now a submarine snorkeling by sticking out its big tube (called a snorkel) out and above water surface to get air, must be almost on sea surface due to use its very short snorkel, it becomes partly visible and exposed to danger and more easy for a ship to find and kill. see photo below...

USS Chicago attack submarine, at snorkeling submerged depth in Pacific Ocean and photographed by an unseen helicopter flying in the air.



snorkel creates waves and water wakes in along trail showing the movement path of the submarine and making it become clearly visible to the enemy ships and ship borne helicopters.

submarines fear helicopters because they have no radar to know a helicopter is flying above the ocean, a major reason why submarines need to always submerge in hostile war zone because helicopters have radars to see them on sea surface emerging or just snorkelling.

the man in the air cannot be harmed by submarines as they have no defence against ship borne helicopters.

you dont know how weak a submarine is when it faces a good navy ? let me show you....

"A submarine's effectiveness depends on its ability to remain submerged and undetected. From this position beneath the surface, a sub can search, track, and attack using the element of surprise. The element of surprise has always been the submarine's greatest asset and is still considered its most powerful weapon. When surfaced, however, submarines are quite vulnerable, since modern subs operate more slowly and have less armament than surface ships. By surfacing, submarines surrender their invisibility."


http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/teach/dive/elem.htm



nigerian navy Lynx helicopters will see a submarine snorkel tube popping out clearly above water surface level disturbing the water surface with waves and wakes in a long trail in an open sea, nigerian ATR-42 surveyor aircraft will see a snorkel from over 200km away with its NATO standard year 2013 electronic search radars, and FLIR, TV cameras etc, nigerian high resolution satellites will see a submarine snorkel due to its waves and water wakes creating a long path of disturbance on the sea water surface.

in 1982 falklands war a ship borne Lynx helicopter of nigeria's type sank a submarine that came a little near the water surface, and in that 1982 war, it was one-one draw ship vs submarine last time they met in real war in falklands Britain vs Argentina.

Sante fe submarine was hit by depth charges from ships helicopter and sank.

General Belgrano is a world war II warship of 1945 with no anti-ship missile and was sunk by a 1971 nuclear powered submarine NOT the weaker and less capable diesel submarines that south africa has today.

about 250 of u-boat submarines in world war II were sunk by warships while the submarines were fully submerged by depth charges

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:U-boats_sunk_by_depth_charges

nigerian navy is upgrading our Lynx anti-submarine helicopters close to the best modern standards in the world now, you never knew that.

"Informed Nigerian sources suggest that the long-stored Lynx Mk.89 naval helicopters of the Nigerian Navy Air Arm which can be armed with torpedoes, are about now undergoing upgrades and are due for delivery sometime in March 2014."

http://beegeagle./2013/12/03/spotlight-on-the-harbin-z-9-helicopter-and-type-056-corvetteopv-matchup-ship-design-from-which-nigerias-incoming-and-enlarged-1800-ton-p18n-stealth-opvs-were-derived/

sorry my south african friends, we nigerians on nairaland are NO longer deceived by the nice photos of your shiny modern weapons, we now study and anaylyze all your weapons and we keep discovering new weaknesses and limitations, thus we match them against nigerian weapons and we have proved that nigeria does not have the most shiny painted weapons, but we are more powerful than you are in many aspects.

Otomat, Roland, ATR-42 surveyor, Bofors F-77B, BTR-3U, Cobra, Shaldag, Seastar, Spy Satellites, etc.

Learn to respect the giant of Africa so you can live long, dont fight war with a Titan, nigeria is an 'incredible Hulk'

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.

what does a Lynx Anti-Submarine helicopter upgrade process look like ?


In parallel with the dead-end Army Lynx 3, Westland mocked up a corresponding "Naval Lynx 3" with the same fat tailboom, tailfins, and other airframe changes, plus an undernose drum radome for 360-degree radar and a FLIR turret on top of the nose. Nobody bit on the Navy Lynx 3 either, but some of its advanced features would be used in the third-generation naval Lynx, the Royal Navy "Lynx HMA.8" and its export "Super Lynx" equivalents.

Seven Lynx HAS.3S machines were modified from 1989 for evaluation of new gear; these evaluation machines in particular featured the RAMS 4000 Central Tactical System, which integrated the Lynx's combat avionics systems and a datalink system to provide unified displays and system controls. These machines were redesignated "Lynx HAS.3CTS".

http://www.airvectors.net/avlynx_2.html

http://www.eurocopter.com/site/en/press/German-Navy-to-Upgrade-Sea-Lynx-Fleet_176.html?iframe=true&width=700


nigerian navy is upgrading our Lynx Anti-Submarine helicopters close to the best modern standards in the world now, you never knew that.

"Informed Nigerian sources suggest that the long-stored Lynx Mk.89 naval helicopters of the Nigerian Navy Air Arm which can be armed with torpedoes, are about now undergoing upgrades and are due for delivery sometime in March 2014."

http://beegeagle./2013/12/03/spotlight-on-the-harbin-z-9-helicopter-and-type-056-corvetteopv-matchup-ship-design-from-which-nigerias-incoming-and-enlarged-1800-ton-p18n-stealth-opvs-were-derived/



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zaandrew:

and the rooivalk lack of radar is a problem how?

no it does not, why does the piloit need to find any thing. when the mokape was being test from the rooivalk the used a ground team to lase the target and the rooivakl fierd in a lock on after launch mode.

i thought you said i did not find any weakness in your Rooivalk helicopter gunship, so i now shocked you

it means you made foolish and fraudulent claims that Rooivalk will use some imaginary air to air missiles (which it does not have now anyway, and will likely never get it) to fight a nigerian F-7 jet when your Rooivalk helicopter has no single fire control radar and our F-7 jet has a 37km range fire control radar.

it means Rooivalk has a big problem and cannot use the Mokopa anti-tank missile 10km range from a distance of 10km since it has no radar to see targets

it means Rooivalk will depend on electro-optical aided eye-sight and fly close to about 4km away from target trying to locate, identify and verify it and then gets shot down from the sky in the process by anti-aircraft guns and missils

it means you need south african army to be inside another country's army territory to guide your foolish Mokopa missile to identified target and how will your soldiers enter nigerian army base ?

it means all these DENEL long range weapons south africans have been posting photos and boasting about from page 1 to page 900 of this forum are actually not usable in real practical war from any such long ranges that you claim.

no wonder the whole world military is not rushing to buy DENEL weapons and the company is struggling to survive with government cash gifts

your weapons 'magical abilities' are all totally fake like your schizophrenic madman interpreter in mandela's funeral

.

zaandrew:

And your alpha jet pilots have seen real action ? Bombing people who can't shoot back is like bombing at a shooting range and yet still you have had accidents.

If you really studied milltary you would know just how stupid you look.

mister man, you dont know about nigerian wars.

Boko Haram has anti-aircraft weapons which they fired and damaged nigerian Alpha Jets and Mi-24 Hind helicopters in combat, Boko Haram is more deadly than Seleka or M23 rebels.

Boko Haram is linked to Mali rebels that defeated the national army of Mali and the Malian Air force that has MiG 21 jetfighters, L-29 light attack jets, and Mi-24 Hind helicopter gunships

"No fewer than 50 Boko Haram militants and three soldiers died in separate battles . The militants fired anti-aircraft guns at JTF jets and helicopters and attacked ground troops with missiles and guns.

The militants hit a JTF helicopter with anti-aircraft weapons during the operation.

However, the pilot was able to navigate the damaged aircraft to safety with no casualty on the part of the crew members."

http://www.punchng.com/news/boko-haram-militants-may-be-tried-for-war-crimes-un/

rather, it is your south african air force that was dancing zulu dance because they sent one Rooivalk helicopter in a 30 minute operation against an already half dead and crippled M23 rebels who did not fire any anti-aircraft weapon at your helicopter, then DENEL says Rooivalk has seen war action, is that a battle to boast about ? try it facing Boko Haram's anti-aircraft guns and see enemy counter-fire.

those your inexperienced south african Gripen jets and Hawk jet pilots have NEVER flown one single combat mission since the day they were born and have never used their jets to kill one single cockroach.

nigerian air force of today, has 100 times more combat experience than south african air force of today. from 1990 to 2013 NAF is fighting wars.

many islamic militants/terrorists have anti-aircraft guns so boko haram used it.



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zaandrew:

Do you even under stand just how far away 10000m is? Do you realze at that range it is way beyond the ffectiv range of rockets.

And your alpha jet piolts have seen real acstion?

dont quote what i did not say, i said F-7 jet first then Alpha jets second when its safe to use close range 7km rockets.

read people's posts well before you reply, i hate repeating posts, maybe i have to do that again now...for you fool !



topic : SATURATION ATTACK

content :

Saturation attack is a military tactic in which the attacking side hopes to gain an advantage by overwhelming the defending side's technological, physical and mental ability to respond effectively. During the Cold War and after the conventional saturation missile attack against naval and land targets was and is a much feared eventuality.

I QUOTE :

"the weakness of Valour frigate is exposed by saturation attack, a fact which south african military experts have identified and worried about since the expensive valour frigates were purchased.

The Valour frigates can have their capacity doubled to 32 Umkhontos, but will probably carry only eight missiles and so "can easily be swamped by saturation attack

Also, after a missile has been fired, empty launch canisters have to be removed from their silos, but: "As far as can be determined, this cannot be done by the Valour-class at sea, so reloading will have to be done alongside in habour port or require a replenishment vessel, as a depot ship, in calm seas".

Heitman admitted the missiles might have difficulty intercepting supersonic assaults.

He added that no navy was able to reload its vertically launched anti-aircraft missiles at sea."

SOUTH AFRICAN SOURCE : http://www.armsdeal-vpo.co.za/articles10/weak_ships.html


the nigerian F-7 jets will fire their PL-9C missiles from 13km above sea level, in a downward direction (same way a jet fighter uses its air to air missiles to shoot down on another enemy jet fighter that is far below it in combat. this is called altitude advantage SWOOP DOWN ATTACK combat tactic used for several purposes, e.g where one jet fighter is already airborne at high altitude and another enemy jet fighter just after take off from air base, with hope to climb up and challenge the high flyer, the high up jet quickly uses his height/altitude advantage to swoop down on it like an eagle on a chicken and fire air to air missiles downwards towards the ground from as high as 15 km above sea level, to knock out the enemy jet before it climbs up high).

the F-7 jet PL-9 missiles will force the Valour frigate to defend itself from many terrible 4,000 km/hr speed nigerian missiles and thus waste all the Valour figates 16 Umkhonto missiles because the F-7 jets keep firing more and more PL-9C, ATOLL and Rockets until the Valour frigate has finished using all its anti-aircraft missiles in self defence against the nigerian missiles.

however, the Valour frigates missiles only reach the nigerian missiles, the nigerian F-7 jets are safely flying at 13km above sea level beyond the altitude/ceiling range of only 10km that the south african umkhonto anti-aircraft missile can reach and end its journey there at that level.

after this, the nigerian F-7 jets and Alpha jets will all descend lower to 6km to 5km above sea level and use deadly salvo of over 100 rockets with speed 3,000 km/hr against the Valour frigates which is now become an easy target like a fat slow pig, easy to spot and target, a very big and massive warship visually captured by the computer guided gun-sight electronic targeting systems of the F-7 jet called HUDAWAC, this is the built-in weapon aiming computer, meaning Head-Up Display And Weapon Aiming Computer that is 100% accurate.

the only defence the Valour frigate has in its rear/back position is the DENEL CIWS gun but its poor range against air targets is only 4km so all the nigerian jets are safe out of its range flying 6km to 6km away behind the warship and firing hundreds of supersonic speed high e.x.plosive and fireball/incendiary air to ground attack rockets that have range of 7km, against the helpless and terrified south african warships until ALL the valour frigates of south african navy catch fire, collapase with holes punched into them and sink to the sea bottom forever.

Mandela and Zuma have no navy any more, Lagos has k.illed Johannesburg, Calabar k.illed Cape Town !

the swoop down attack maneuver at angle 180 degrees is defensive, while angle 45 degrees it is offensive.

photo/image below shows jet fighter swoop down attack, the missiles are fired at positions between number 2 and number 3, when an angle of 45 degrees is achieved, the jets air to air missile simply travels downwards and is guided by the pilots computer aided 100% accurate optical/visual sight towards any target that the jet pilot has seen in his gun/bore sight systems. this is one of the methods the F-7 jet PL-9C missiles will use to achieve the saturation attack objective.



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zaandrew:

What is range of those jets? Could easly sail the bulk of the journy on the surfac in a convouy. RAS then opater submerged in hostil warters.

Concidring we sailed a submarein with out a escort to south amerca I do not see how nigiera is a chalnge.

nigerian territorial water EEZ is only about 350km. Alpha jets combat range is about 600km, L-39 jet range is about 1,100 km. more than enough.

the total technical limit of south african navy Type 209 submarines fully submerged is 750km range at 7km/hr speed which equals about 100 hours only endurance under water fully submerged, but only half that can be used to stay inside enemy territory for 50 hours only, the submarine needs the remaining 50 hours to sail out of enemy territory or else it will sink there when diesel runs out !

you south africans dont know how youe submarines work and all its major weaknesses and limitations.

you think you have a magic weapon called a submarine, NO ! you fools

if you sail your south african submarine by snorkel for most of the journey to a place close nigeria say like 350km away from our coast, you already lost fuel for about 50 hours, and then.....

.... your submarine CANNOT stay more than 24 hours submerged inside nigerian EEZ waters or else it will run out of diesel fuel and sink by itself to perish in the sea bottom.

south african navy diesel fueled submarines CANNOT, i repeat, they CANNOT mount any naval blockade of nigerian waters. FACT proved scientifically !


only a nuclear fueled submarine of the world's big military super powers can fight against nigeria without being seen and sunk

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agaugust:


ngerian army special forces sneaked on boko haram leader shekau's secret hidden forest/jungle base on top of a mountain and we killed him, he did not know nigerian army had crept into his stronghold.

you are foolish enough to ask what experience nigerian special forces have, your south african special forces never found seleka leaders base or even smell it from a distance.

south african army's old SADF 1980s angola bush war special forces are almost all old and retired by now and gone with all their experience.

today's current south african special forces have no combat record and NO combat experience. who did they fight in war ? who ?

nigerian army's current special forces have been fighting combat and recce against boko haram for 4 years now and have sneaked unseen and undiscovered to spy and fight and snipe in jungles and mountains after their other war experience against niger d.elta militants for about 10 years in year 2000 to 2010 inside thick mangrove swamps and jungles every day fighting about 30,000 m.ilitants.

nigeria has the most experienced special forces in Africa, south africa's current special forces have almost ZERO combat experience, they just pose for @THIZA's photographs and get paid monthly salary for sleeping with their wives at home in soweto.

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Special force that has got only 7 years of age. Bwahahahahahahahahahahaahhaha!!!

Msauza:

Special force that has got only 7 years of age. Bwahaha!!!

ignorant boy. only nigerian navy Special Boat Service, SBS is a new force created in 2006 and 7 years old.

nigerian army special forces have existed for over 100 years till today, the nigerian army itself is 150 years old.

the nigerian army specials forces of today, are traditionally called commandos. you are just a clown

http://beegeagle./2012/11/29/world-exclusive-stripes-of-a-nigerian-army-special-forces-commando/

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While CAR burns, SA that self delusionally preaches for rapid intervention in Africa cannot grow the balls to return SANDF to intervene in Bangui? Where are you right now ... go ahead and practice what you preach!

JTF kills scores of Boko Haram members in Borno
Written by
Sunday, 15 December 2013 00:00

MILITARY authorities in Maiduguri, the Borno State capital, has said that air bombardment of insurgents’ hideouts in Mainok and Mada general areas of Kaga and Konduga local government areas by the Nigerian Air Force has led to the death of some Boko Haram terrorists (number not known).

Spokesman of the 7 division of the Nigerian Army, Colonel Muhammadu Dole, in a statement made available to newsmen in Maiduguri on Saturday, revealed that the terrorists were seen conducting funeral for their dead members around Mudube village and were engaged, with several of them losing their lives.

In a related development, he said the troops of 7 Division also had an encounter with Boko Haram insurgents along Maiduguri-Bama-Gwoza road for two hours during which eight Boko Haram terrorists were killed, with 3 Vehicles and 3 AK 47 rifles burnt, while scores of others fled with various degrees of injuries.

He said due to increased offensive operations through the ground and air against the terrorists, the attacks resulted in serious decimation of Boko Haram fighters.

“This forced them to embark on forceful conscription of youths and abduction of women from vulnerable villages into their folds. The troops are on their trail to ensure safe release of these captives.” Col Dole said.

Meanwhile, the General Officer Commanding 7 Division of the Nigerian Army, Major General Obidah Ethan has reiterated that the Division is poised to decimating the Boko Haram terrorists wherever they were and continue to appreciate the continuous support and cooperation of the general public.

http://www.tribune.com.ng/news2013/index.php/en/news/lead-stories/item/28646-jtf-kills-scores-of-boko-haram-members-in-borno.html

http://www.channelstv.com/home/2013/12/14/fighting-insecurity-nigerian-army-recruits-5890-soldiers/

Fighting Insecurity: Nigerian Army Recruits 5,890 Soldiers

Posted by: Channels Television Posted date: December 14, 2013 In: Current, Headlines | comment : 0 Comments


The military in Nigeria is insisting that it will continue to increase its mental and physical capacity, in order to effectively fight insecurity in the country.

In its bid to shore up its manpower, the Nigerian Army has injected 5,890 recruits into the force.

During their Passing Out Parade at the Nigerian Army Depot, Zaria, Kaduna State, the Chief of Army Staff, Lieutenant-General Azubuike Ihejirika, told the new soldiers that the Boko-Haram threat in the North-Eastern part of the country demands that the Armed Forces maintain a well-trained and disciplined force.

Lieutenant-General Azubuike Ihejirika said: “Nigerian Army’s mission to win all land battles, defend the territorial integrity of Nigeria, protect and advance her national interest as may be assigned in aid to civil authority, remains a task we must never fail to accomplish no matter the odds.

“Therefore, I urge you to remain selfless, disciplined, loyal and determined. As you are aware, the contemporary security challenges in our country demands that the army maintain a well-trained and disciplined force to provide appropriate response.

“Let me emphasise that our constitutional responsibilities demands that we defend the nation from external aggression, maintain its territorial integrity and secure the border from violation by land, sea and air.

“Remember that the military profession has no place for the weak and feeble minded. You must understand that the military service is all about sacrifice, honour, discipline, loyalty, perseverance and valour.

He further reminded the soildiers, “by the taking of oath of allegiance today, you are now subject to both civil and military laws. You must therefore avoid anything that has the propensity to tarnish your image, the army and the nation”,

Ihejirika also assured the new recruits of being exposed to further training in counter-terrorism and counter-insurgency operation.

5,890 is the highest number of soldiers to be trained at once, since the inception of the Nigerian ArmyDepot , Zaria in 1924.

agaugust:

...and you are scared of armed robbers in south africa. while bishop tutu was watching mandela's dead body at the stadium his house was being robbed, he could have been made to join mandela in the grave if the robbers met him at home

bullets are flying on the streets all over south africa

"In August, robbers broke into Tutu's Cape Town home while he and his wife Leah were sleeping. The two weren't harmed. In 2007, thieves broke into his home in Johannesburg's Soweto township and stole, among other things, his Nobel Prize medal. Police later recovered it.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/desmond-tutu-s-home-robbed-as-he-spoke-at-mandela-memorial-1.1585175

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Robbers aren't a military threat whatsoever. Robbers or the rate robberies doesn't speak or represent any country's military capabilities. Boko haram is a military threat hampering your armed forces' effort to accomplish its constitutional mandate of protecting Nigerians,who are slaughtered in the northern part of your country. LETS COMPARE MILITARY CAPABILITIES(from air forces,army and navy) TO DETERMANE WHO'S THE BEST.

Mike..ZA:


LETS COMPARE MILITARY CAPABILITIES (from air forces,army and navy) TO DETERMANE WHO'S THE BEST.

that comparison has been done already dude ! pages 1 to 900 of this thread has proved who is who.

weapons :

each country has its own area of advantage and sophistication over the other, so maybe we have a balance on weapons between south africa and nigeria.

soldiers :

south african army, navy, and air force have been dormant and asleep for the past 25 years while nigerian armed forces have been too busy and very active fighting modern day wars using both light, medium and heavy equipment from 1990 liberian war, sierra leonan war, niger delta militancy, mali war, and boko haram insurgency 2013 today.

over 1,200 nigerian soldiers have died in those war zones from 1990 to 2013, show me what battles south african military has fought in the last 25 years involving your currently serving soldiers...not the old and retired SADF of angolan bush war most of whom are no longer in your military today.

current south african SANDF military forces have zero combat experience and just get salaries monthly for sleeping with their wives at home

.

Mike..ZA:


Robbers aren't a military threat whatsoever. Robbers or the rate robberies doesn't speak or represent any country's military capabilities. Boko haram is a military threat hampering your armed forces' effort to accomplish its constitutional mandate of protecting Nigerians,who are slaughtered in the northern part of your country.

same way south african police cannot stop robbers from robbing your people every day despite the contitutional mandate given to your police, same way nigerian army cannot stop a few hundred boko haram fighters from waking up at night and killing innocent people.

however nigerian army makes sure the boko haram men too get killed and are forced to retreat and run across the border out of nigeria or else they all get killed by nigerian military.

nigerian military has fulfilled its constitutional role of stopping boko haram from doin the same thing other islamists did to Mali, they took over half of Mali from north to middle, heading south to capital city Bamako, defeated the national army of Mali and Malian air force that has 14 units of MiG 21 jet fighters, 6 units of L-29 light attacl jets, 3 units Mi-24 Helicopter gunships in a few months.

only France, Nigeria, and Chad saved Mali from been overrun and taken over 100% by the same west african islamic terrorists.

Nigerian military not only saved nigeria, we travelled 1,000 km away to go and save Mali.

if you think nigerian military has failed with all that, then i think your own brain has totally failed from working normally

.

agaugust:


sorry dude, you were actually crushing your own tiny balls and they are already leaking like a broken bag of pure water

i will answer your posts number by number same way you raised your foolish points.


1. Roland missile of nigeria shot down two supersonic 2,400 km/hr speed NATO Tornado jets in combat, you failed there my boy .

"Iraq is believed to have received 100 Rolands, and a Roland SAM is believed to have shot down 2 Panavia Tornado jet aircraft during Operation Desert Storm"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland-(missile)


next, you CANNOT use a slow speed Rooivalk helicopter against a Roland that shoots down the most powerful jet fighters in the world. it will foolishness and calamity for the south air force to try that with nigeria.

Rooivalk helicopter has NO RADAR dude !

your soweto helicopter fires only by sight and seeing target.

"The Rooivalk is not equipped with a fire control radar,” says Van Rooyen, unlike the AH-64D Apache and the Tiger. the Rooivalk is only fitted with an electro-optical sight system which incorporates a FLIR and a TV sensor, targets are only found by aided sight."

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/the-rebirth-of-the-rooivalk-2011-05-20


abuja's Roland anti-aircraft missile has a radar range of 18km, we see your Rooivalk helicopter from far away 18km, now dude, that is death !

your 10km range mokopa missile is just a useless distance, Rooivalk needs to come close to Roland SAM and to find it by electro-aided eye sight and lock on it and keep on locking while it exposes itself to Roland anti-aircraft missiles. even the mighty world best Apache long bow helicopter gunship radar range for targeting is only 8km so it has to get closer than 8km to the target.

Rooivalk is even worse, it will be less than 5km to the target to find, identify, and confirm the Roland target because Rolands usually hide like other air defences under heavy camouflage nets, or behind buildings, or in the bush, see sample photo below .

Roland has 18km radar and 8 km missile....all your eleven Rooivalk helicopters will not survive 2 minutes with a our deadly Roland SAM....fool !

Roland radar range 18km vs Rooivalk zero radar and its 10km mokopa anti-tank missile. Roland sees the Rooivalk from 18km far away distance in an open and exposed sky, while the Rooivalk cannot see the Roland. Now that is imminent death for your unlucky helicopters.

Rooivalk cannot see Roland camoflagued in bush or city behind tall buildings unless Rooivalk moves to close visual range and identify the Roland like 5km then Roland miissile fires and roasts all your Rooivalk helicopters in 2 minutes.

even nigerian Type 90 computerized anti-aircraft guns with over 6km range will shoot down all south african Rooivalk helicopters with ease.


2. Umbani guided bomb of south africa has NO RADAR too dude !

Umbani too is only laser guided and needs an aircraft to help it illuminate the target on ground, so how does your Hawk jets find a. Roland without getting close to it and being shot down like a mosquito facing Baygon insecticide

Hawk jet has NO RADAR to fire control support a 120km bomb, and the bomb does not even allow radar guidance, so how does it travel 120km to the exact target Roland that is hidden deep inside enemy territory of nigerian army ?

dont let the shiny paints on south african weapons fool you, they have very many limitations and weaknesses that you guys never research into.

so your laser cannot find Roland, your Paveway II and Umbani slow speed guided bombs are a waste when you face a powerful country like nigeria. go try your bombs on Burundi or Namibia


3. see mister comdey ,a CRAM (Counter Rocket Artillery Mortar) is for stopping very high speed ammunition like rockets, shells, and mortars that fly at about 3,000 km/hr high speed, NOT your snail speed slow Umbani guided bomb of speed 80 km/hr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_Rocket,_Artillery,_and_Mortar

nigerian Type 90 anti-aircraft gun has muzzle velocity speed of fire about 4,000 km/hr and is designed to shoot down even cruise missile.

"The weapon was designed to engage high-speed, low-flying aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) and cruise missiles."

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/antiaircraft/type90towed35mm.asp

ordinary nigerian anti-aircraft guns alone will shoot down all south african slow speed guided bombs, anytime, any day FACT !!!!

4. there is no number 4 in your comments....your leaking balls must be paining you seriously


5. where will your south african special forces be to be lighting up nigerian weapons with lasers, inside nigerian army base or what ?
okay then maybe i can say nigerian special forces too will be operating inside south african army base ? fool

6. the same death i explained for your Hawk jets, also awaits your Gripen jets, i wont waste readers time on this forum again with Roland vs Gripen simulation, your soldiers have agreed we will shoot down your nice looking jets and waste your money.

7. i answered that in number 3 above.

now that your two balls have been crushed by nigerians, how will you give your wife 'belle' ?

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It pains me to know there's someone who can still think rub.bish like this. Here's my address to your above nonsense 1. The Roland is "believed" to have shot down,meaning it is not proven we discus facts not rumours. The Tornado in Iraq was flying low one was broad down by AA guns. 2. Rooivalk weak cause of radar? South Africa doesn't have a lot them which would be a necessity to equip them with radar. 3 The Rooivalk uses advanced sensors a tank on the ground can spot a target 5km away,how about helicopters? The Mokopa doesn't need radar to hit target....The USA Apaches didn't have the long bow radar system in Iraqi but fired their 8km Hellfire missiles. Your Roland has a operational ceiling of 5km the Gripen can flying 11km above it using the DJRP to spot and destroy it with free fall bombs "Surface to Air (SAM) Roland II
Range
maximum: 6 000 m
minimal: 700 to 2 000 m according to the
Ceiling
Altitude, (m) 5,500
Basic load on vehicle
10 missiles
(2 per launcher)
Detection range, km 16.5
Reaction time, sec 4-10
Firing time, sec 1st shooting: 8 to 10 seconds
later shooting: 2 to 6 seconds
Speed Mach 1.6
Reload time approximately 10 second
Probability of hit 80%
Warhead HE hollow charge
Command guidance RF SACLOS or CLOS
Radar(s)
Siemens/Thomson-CSF D-band pulse-Doppler
search radar,
Thomson-CSF J-Band monopulse Doppler tracking
radar
Emplace/displace time (min) 3
Support vehicles None
Chassis AMX-30 , Marder APC, trucks, or in fixed shelters". 4. CRAM(counter rocket artillery and mortar) only the USA and Israel have this capability. Unless you can show us where it is written that the type-90 guns can be used to destroy incoming fire. 5. South African special forces have operated meters away from enemy bases without betraying their positions,they did so in Angola and are doing so in the DRC..........

agaugust:


one NNS Aradu, two NNS Thunder I and II (second NNS Thunder sister ships is joining our navy next year 2014), two ultra-modern Type 056 Stealth warships will escort NNS AMBE landing ship to invade south africa. that is one of the most powerful escort force you can get in Africa.

two NATO standard nigerian air force ATR-42 Surveyor maritime patrol aircraft and 50 jet fighters plus 400 patrol boats, 660 coastal artillery, two La Combattante warships NNS ANYAM and NNS SIRI armed with Exocet M38 anti-ship missiles are enough to keep away threat at home nigeria.

south african navy will be too busy at home facing a deadly nigerian navy fleet and will not risk travelling 5,000 km away to nigeria in a counter attack that will expose them to sinking by nigerian air force jets and coastal artillery.

any south african special forces troop will meet their sudden death from nigerian navy special forces, nigerian army amphibious forces and nigerian navy massive force of 400 sophisticated in-shore and mid-shore fast patrol gun boats in the first group photo below. you think Nigeria is equal to Botswana ?

second solo photo below is NNS AMBE landing ship of nigerian navy with its flat frontal landing ramp for armoured vehicles and artillery to land.

540 troops on NNS Ambe, no, we will about 3,000 troops on ordinary troop transport ships like we did in sierra leone war.

NNS Ambe is not limited to the weapons list on global security website i posted to educate you since you never even knew NNS Ambe exists.

we can put only Cobra/VBL armed with swingfire anti-tank missile or BTR-3U on NNS Ambe, why should we use an old T-55 Tank when we have modern armoured vehicles that can launch anti-tank weapons ? we can even put in Sagaie wheeled IFV with 90mm guns.

i wont tell you now how many intelligent weapons mix we can do on NNS Ambe. you just think like a kid

NNS Ambe has range of 10,000km enough to sail from nigeria to south africa and return back to nigeria without refuelling. use your head well.

NNS AMBE DATA


Displacement: 1190t standard, 1470t full, 1590t design limit Dimensions: 285’4”x45’9”x7’5” Machinery: Diesel-reduction: 2 MTU 16V956-TB92 diesels, 4 shafts Max speed: 17kts

Range: 4900NM @ 10kts loaded (about 10,000 km range).

no south african air force jet or helicopter will ever dare to fly when nigeria's NNS ARADU is threatening your homeland with Aspide Beyond Visual Range anti-aircraft missiles of 75km range. get it ?

the aim of an invasion is not to win but to shake south africa to its foundations with the fireballs of war on your homeland soil !

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We are comparing current military capability,to determine who's the best on the continent. Not what a country's future capabilities will be. Let me get this Nigeria transport 3000 troops+tanks,ammunition,food,howitzers and other heavy equipment on which ships?..........Nigerian armour like your cobra and VBL MBTs would be destroyed by the ZTA3 ratel. The cobra can easily be destroyed by the Rooikat high velocity modified navy gun. Even so 3000 troops will never win any battle against 39 000 well equipped soldiers.

Mike..ZA:


Your Roland has a operational ceiling of 5km the Gripen can flying 11km above it using the DJRP to spot and destroy it with free fall bombs

Roland ceiling is 5.5km, NOT 5km


your high speed Gripen jet cannot find a camouflagued Roland from height of 10km ceiling/altitude, there are too many houses, bushes, cars, trucks, bulldozers, armoured vehicles, tanks, etc scattered all over the ground in war.

only ground attack aircraft flying low will ever find enemy anti-aircraft defences usually camouflagued like this photo...

[img]http://www.focusblog.ro/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/leobusk.jpg[/img]

no high flying aircraft will ever see such a hidden Roland from 10km high altitude that is 32,000 feet above ground level up in the sky dude !

Gripen jet must come down low to find a Roland, low like 4.5km or 15,000 feet which the Roland builders Germany/France already know before they build the Roland with 5.5km ceiling.

you dont even know how high 15,000 feet in the air really is, you cannot tell the difference between truck and a van from that great height.

notice my simulation of NAF attack on SAN valour frigates, i refused to use freefall bombs even on a big and clearly visible warship on a wide open ocean, it wont work, the chance of a successful hit is less than 1%.

Gripen jet of south africa has no missile to hit a Roland, your free fall bombs from 32,000 feet in the sky will surely miss target because it never saw the target in the first place, unless your pilots use witchcraft spiritual power .

also Rolands dont operate alone, they work in artillery regiment battery of air defences including AAA guns like nigerian Type 90, then that will shoot down all your free fall bombs.

if a Roland fires one missile from point A at 10:00am, by 10:30m the same Roland has driven like a car off to point B so the enemy comes back and Mister Roland is gone away !

anyway, your pilots never know where nigeria put its Roland because it is in our territory, we wont tell you its location in war.


you forget that if your Gripen jet flies, nigerian radar will detect it from over 200km away and we will scramble our F-7 jets to intercept the Gripen jets, afterall both jets have only within visual range missile and will not start air to air dogfight until they are in visual range close to each other

your mistake in war is that you believe only you will be doing things while your enemy will have his hands tied to his back for you to win.

Mike..ZA:


The Roland is "believed" to have shot down,meaning it is not proven we discus facts not rumours. The Tornado in Iraq was flying low one was broad down by AA guns.

some sources say Roland is believed to have shot down the Tornadoes, no source says they are wrong.
some sources say it was anti-aircraft guns, no source says they are wrong.

the British pilots believed only a missile could have downed a mighty Tornado jet and must be the best of world missiles, Roland was the best anti-aircraft missile Iraq has in gulf war.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/RAFTornadoAircraftLosses.cfm

Roland is confirmed to have shot down Harrier jet and A10 Thuderbolt jet, those are very capable ground attack aircraft that really can hunt and find a Roland, but as usual it wil be at the risk of the pilots life because every jet fighter that challenges Roland in war history has been shot down.

finally, show us that war and aircraft that south african Umkhonto anti-aircraft missile has ever shot down in all its history

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Mike..ZA:


We are comparing current military capability,to determine who's the best on the continent. Not what a country's future capabilities will be.

Let me get this Nigeria transport 3000 troops+tanks,ammunition,food,howitzers and other heavy equipment on which ships?..........Nigerian armour like your cobra and VBL MBTs would be destroyed by the ZTA3 ratel. The cobra can easily be destroyed by the Rooikat high velocity modified navy gun. Even so 3000 troops will never win any battle against 39 000 well equipped soldiers.

yes current ability nigeria and south africa almost match each other in weapons because each one has its own area of advantage over the other.

go check that from page 1 to 900 of this thread and dont waste our time with noise making. it is a balance of power.

nigeria is far better in current battlefield experience in the past 25 years. south africa has NOT fought ANY big battle at all in past 25 years.

nigerian invasion of south africa with various missiles Otomat, Aspide, Swingfire, SAM-7 Igla, Roland SAM, Blowpipe SAM, Torpedoes,
Bofors F-77B, Cobra APC, Type 90 AAA, and 3,000 experienced soldiers, will give you nightmare for many months, though we will not win, your best south african soldiers and equipment will die and be destroyed.

Boko Haram does not have any of those weapons above, and yet nigeria is winning but sweating hard in battle.

if we bring all those weapons into south africa, your president zuma will s...h...i...t inside his p...a...n...t every day for 6 months

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agaugust:

was that in a war ? you sailed submarine to Brazil for friendly visit, same way Nigeria sailed NNS Thunder alone to Australia for friendly visit.

Yes thunder had to refuel in south africa and restok stock. We sailed straight through.

agaugust: .

[size=16pt]modern sea warfare : ships vs submarines[/size]

.





submarine and targets is an old saying popularized by submariners who think they are invincible and cannot be killed, they should go as their colleagues from the 300 sunken U-boat submarines whose final graveyard is in the bottom of the sea where mammy water is watching over them.

Otomat anti-ship missile is partially stealth as i said because skims on ocean surface at only about 6 feet above water and it is passive with no use of radar in flight until only 6 km from the target activates the on-board radar to reduce reaction time from the target, that is partial stealth, very hard to detect.

you said umkhonto anti-aircraft missile is built to target small boats ! you must be a real navy chef/cook
your over-rated anti aircraft missile has suddenly been re-named as an anti-ship missile, you think we are fools here ?

umkhonto missile is ONLY designed to fight aircraft or cruise missiles in the air, NOT anything on the sea water surface. DENEL never tested it against any sea hugging enemy weapon. click and read the words on the photo below and stop deceiving yourself man !

it says "Umkhonto missile is speciafically designed for providing defense against air attacks from aircraft and missiles", it does NOT say defense against sea attacks from anti-ship missile, or in your own small brain an Otomat anti-ship missile kissing the surface of the ocean water is an air attack ? fool

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7627/ordsamumkhontoirmissile.jpg


why did the British navy HMS Sheffield in 1982 falkaland war with all her powerful radars did not see Argentina's Exocet anti-ship missile and the jet fighter that launched it until few minutes close to the British ship and then sank the ship ? the Etendard jet and its Exocet missile were sea skimming, thats why sank the powerful British warship unseen until too late to stop them.

why did British ship HMS Sheffield not use her powerful high speed Sea Dart anti-aircraft missiles 3 times faster than the enemy's Exocet anti-ship missile to defend herself and stop Argentina's 3 times slower Exocet antiship missile that sunk the British ship ? you dont know how real combat is fought dude !

Umkhonto missile is built to defend against AIR ATTACK NOT SEA ATTACK, you south african fools !


now to submarines vs warships.


my post contained detailed analysis of speed and ranges of NNS Aradu, Type 209 Submarine, and their Torpedoes. i used basic mathematical calculations to simulate combat between both of them using all their basic technical details, then you did no calculations and comparison, you just picked your laptop and speak out your mind like a real navy cook chef that is better with tomatoes and onions than with combat weapons.

a hidden submerged south african submarine can only run at 7km/hr snail slow speed, while NNS Aradu can run at about 70 km/hr. your submarine will fire a torpedo and its position is not hidden any more, it is revealed. if ARADU fires back with her own torpedo that moves at about 45km/hr, then your submarine cannot escape ARADU's torpedo while ARADU can out-run your own Torpedo.

NNS ARADU can send its Lyxn anti-submarine helicopter to fish out and sink your submarine.

death is almost guaranteed for any submarine who's position is discovered when it tries to attack a ship.


now a submarine snorkeling by sticking out its big tube (called a snorkel) out and above water surface to get air, must be almost on sea surface due to use its very short snorkel, it becomes partly visible and exposed to danger and more easy for a ship to find and kill. see photo below...

USS Chicago attack submarine, at snorkeling submerged depth in Pacific Ocean and photographed by an unseen helicopter flying in the air.



snorkel creates waves and water wakes in along trail showing the movement path of the submarine and making it become clearly visible to the enemy ships and ship borne helicopters.

submarines fear helicopters because they have no radar to know a helicopter is flying above the ocean, a major reason why submarines need to always submerge in hostile war zone because helicopters have radars to see them on sea surface emerging or just snorkelling.

the man in the air cannot be harmed by submarines as they have no defence against ship borne helicopters.

you dont know how weak a submarine is when it faces a good navy ? let me show you....

"A submarine's effectiveness depends on its ability to remain submerged and undetected. From this position beneath the surface, a sub can search, track, and attack using the element of surprise. The element of surprise has always been the submarine's greatest asset and is still considered its most powerful weapon. When surfaced, however, submarines are quite vulnerable, since modern subs operate more slowly and have less armament than surface ships. By surfacing, submarines surrender their invisibility."


http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/teach/dive/elem.htm



nigerian navy Lynx helicopters will see a submarine snorkel tube popping out clearly above water surface level disturbing the water surface with waves and wakes in a long trail in an open sea, nigerian ATR-42 surveyor aircraft will see a snorkel from over 200km away with its NATO standard year 2013 electronic search radars, and FLIR, TV cameras etc, nigerian high resolution satellites will see a submarine snorkel due to its waves and water wakes creating a long path of disturbance on the sea water surface.

in 1982 falklands war a ship borne Lynx helicopter of nigeria's type sank a submarine that came a little near the water surface, and in that 1982 war, it was one-one draw ship vs submarine last time they met in real war in falklands Britain vs Argentina.

Sante fe submarine was hit by depth charges from ships helicopter and sank.

General Belgrano is a world war II warship of 1945 with no anti-ship missile and was sunk by a 1971 nuclear powered submarine NOT the weaker and less capable diesel submarines that south africa has today.

about 250 of u-boat submarines in world war II were sunk by warships while the submarines were fully submerged by depth charges

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:U-boats_sunk_by_depth_charges

nigerian navy is upgrading our Lynx anti-submarine helicopters close to the best modern standards in the world now, you never knew that.

"Informed Nigerian sources suggest that the long-stored Lynx Mk.89 naval helicopters of the Nigerian Navy Air Arm which can be armed with torpedoes, are about now undergoing upgrades and are due for delivery sometime in March 2014."

http://beegeagle./2013/12/03/spotlight-on-the-harbin-z-9-helicopter-and-type-056-corvetteopv-matchup-ship-design-from-which-nigerias-incoming-and-enlarged-1800-ton-p18n-stealth-opvs-were-derived/

sorry my south african friends, we nigerians on nairaland are NO longer deceived by the nice photos of your shiny modern weapons, we now study and anaylyze all your weapons and we keep discovering new weaknesses and limitations, thus we match them against nigerian weapons and we have proved that nigeria does not have the most shiny painted weapons, but we are more powerful than you are in many aspects.

Otomat, Roland, ATR-42 surveyor, Bofors F-77B, BTR-3U, Cobra, Shaldag, Seastar, Spy Satellites, etc.

Learn to respect the giant of Africa so you can live long, dont fight war with a Titan, nigeria is an 'incredible Hulk'

.

Again subs have come along way since ww2

Seaskiming is nothing new and does not make it stealthy. All modern SSM are seaskimming. It may not have its radar on but the launch veaseal has it's on and transmets data to the missiel.


We have given you this info how many times. Any case the umkhont can not only target seaskiming missiels but small surface contacts.


Because shefield did not have power full radar. In fact her radar where rather bad. A valour frigat ECM sytem would have dedicted the radar locks from the super entards long before they fired.

The umkhonto was built to provid total air defense vs aircraft and missiels. That includes seaskiming missiels.

That your problem. You don't under stand how a sub hunts. It is a ambusher. It waits for the target to come to it. Speed is not vital for it. And after it fiers it hides not runaway.

Statics do not back you up since many a sub has evaded a enemy.

Hence it snorks at night.

Subs can have radar. Our subs have both radar, optical search sytem and EW sytems that can be used to search for subs.

Not all subs. And any sub can carry SAMs just have MANPAD.

I used to wonder if you really did work in defence industry. I now know you do not.

Fact is NN has never trained in ASW.

agaugust:

i thought you said i did not find any weakness in your Rooivalk helicopter gunship, so i now shocked you

it means you made foolish and fraudulent claims that Rooivalk will use some imaginary air to air missiles (which it does not have now anyway, and will likely never get it) to fight a nigerian F-7 jet when your Rooivalk helicopter has no single fire control radar and our F-7 jet has a 37km range fire control radar.

it means Rooivalk has a big problem and cannot use the Mokopa anti-tank missile 10km range from a distance of 10km since it has no radar to see targets

it means Rooivalk will depend on electro-optical aided eye-sight and fly close to about 4km away from target trying to locate, identify and verify it and then gets shot down from the sky in the process by anti-aircraft guns and missils

it means you need south african army to be inside another country's army territory to guide your foolish Mokopa missile to identified target and how will your soldiers enter nigerian army base ?

it means all these DENEL long range weapons south africans have been posting photos and boasting about from page 1 to page 900 of this forum are actually not usable in real practical war from any such long ranges that you claim.

no wonder the whole world military is not rushing to buy DENEL weapons and the company is struggling to survive with government cash gifts

your weapons 'magical abilities' are all totally fake like your schizophrenic madman interpreter in mandela's funeral

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and i still fail to see how you have menstioed a weakness.

you dont need radar to fire a ir guided wepaon.

it does not need to use radar, for one think the mokape is laser beamrider, the rooivalk optical sytems can see and target that far. or it can be guied by a seconed laser deocnatoer such has one by a SF team

4km away? that the distance the thermal cammra on the ground can pick up a human, it can pick up a tank at 10km again this is on the ground. in the air it is far better.

they can be a km away and guid it.

only they have been used at those ranges many times.

denel has made some masive profits

you really no nothing you and your freinds are a embarsment

agaugust:

dont quote what i did not say, i said F-7 jet first then Alpha jets second when its safe to use close range 7km rockets.

read people's posts well before you reply, i hate repeating posts, maybe i have to do that again now...for you fool !



topic : SATURATION ATTACK

content :

Saturation attack is a military tactic in which the attacking side hopes to gain an advantage by overwhelming the defending side's technological, physical and mental ability to respond effectively. During the Cold War and after the conventional saturation missile attack against naval and land targets was and is a much feared eventuality.

I QUOTE :

"the weakness of Valour frigate is exposed by saturation attack, a fact which south african military experts have identified and worried about since the expensive valour frigates were purchased.

The Valour frigates can have their capacity doubled to 32 Umkhontos, but will probably carry only eight missiles and so "can easily be swamped by saturation attack

Also, after a missile has been fired, empty launch canisters have to be removed from their silos, but: "As far as can be determined, this cannot be done by the Valour-class at sea, so reloading will have to be done alongside in habour port or require a replenishment vessel, as a depot ship, in calm seas".

Heitman admitted the missiles might have difficulty intercepting supersonic assaults.

He added that no navy was able to reload its vertically launched anti-aircraft missiles at sea."

SOUTH AFRICAN SOURCE : http://www.armsdeal-vpo.co.za/articles10/weak_ships.html


the nigerian F-7 jets will fire their PL-9C missiles from 13km above sea level, in pa downward direction (same way a jet fighter uses its air to air missiles to shoot down on another enemy jet fighter that is far below it in combat. this is called altitude advantage SWOOP DOWN ATTACK combat tactic used for several purposes, e.g where one jet fighter is already airborne at high altitude and another enemy jet fighter just after take off from air base, with hope to climb up and challenge the high flyer, the high up jet quickly uses his height/altitude advantage to swoop down on it like an eagle on a chicken and fire air to air missiles downwards towards the ground from as high as 15 km above sea level, to knock out the enemy jet before it climbs up high).

the F-7 jet PL-9 missiles will force the Valour frigate to defend itself from many terrible 4,000 km/hr speed nigerian missiles and thus waste all the Valour figates 16 Umkhonto missiles because the F-7 jets keep firing more and more PL-9C, ATOLL and Rockets until the Valour frigate has finished using all its anti-aircraft missiles in self defence against the nigerian missiles.

however, the Valour frigates missiles only reach the nigerian missiles, the nigerian F-7 jets are safely flying at 13km above sea level beyond the altitude/ceiling range of only 10km that the south african umkhonto anti-aircraft missile can reach and end its journey there at that level.

after this, the nigerian F-7 jets and Alpha jets will all descend lower to 6km to 5km above sea level and use deadly salvo of over 100 rockets with speed 3,000 km/hr against the Valour frigates which is now become an easy target like a fat slow pig, easy to spot and target, a very big and massive warship visually captured by the computer guided gun-sight electronic targeting systems of the F-7 jet called HUDAWAC, this is the built-in weapon aiming computer, meaning Head-Up Display And Weapon Aiming Computer that is 100% accurate.

the only defence the Valour frigate has in its rear/back position is the DENEL CIWS gun but its poor range against air targets is only 4km so all the nigerian jets are safe out of its range flying 6km to 6km away behind the warship and firing hundreds of supersonic speed high e.x.plosive and fireball/incendiary air to ground attack rockets that have range of 7km, against the helpless and terrified south african warships until ALL the valour frigates of south african navy catch fire, collapase with holes punched into them and sink to the sea bottom forever.

Mandela and Zuma have no navy any more, Lagos has k.illed Johannesburg, Calabar k.illed Cape Town !

the swoop down attack maneuver at angle 180 degrees is defensive, while angle 45 degrees it is offensive.

photo/image below shows jet fighter swoop down attack, the missiles are fired at positions between number 2 and number 3, when an angle of 45 degrees is achieved, the jets air to air missile simply travels downwards and is guided by the pilots computer aided 100% accurate optical/visual sight towards any target that the jet pilot has seen in his gun/bore sight systems. this is one of the methods the F-7 jet PL-9C missiles will use to achieve the saturation attack objective.



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The artical was writen before the valour where oprastional. They carry 16 has standard.

Any case. You want to fire from 7000m now. You still to high. And the pl9c is a aam with no ground attack role. So your enter plan is now ruied. But we have had this descustion before or do you suffer ffrom memoury loss to.

agaugust:



nigerian territorial water EEZ is only about 350km. Alpha jets combat range is about 600km, L-39 jet range is about 1,100 km. more than enough.

the total technical limit of south african navy Type 209 submarines fully submerged is 750km range at 7km/hr speed which equals about 100 hours only endurance under water fully submerged, but only half that can be used to stay inside enemy territory for 50 hours only, the submarine needs the remaining 50 hours to sail out of enemy territory or else it will sink there when diesel runs out !

you south africans dont know how youe submarines work and all its major weaknesses and limitations.

you think you have a magic weapon called a submarine, NO ! you fools

if you sail your south african submarine by snorkel for most of the journey to a place close nigeria say like 350km away from our coast, you already lost fuel for about 50 hours, and then.....

.... your submarine CANNOT stay more than 24 hours submerged inside nigerian EEZ waters or else it will run out of diesel fuel and sink by itself to perish in the sea bottom.

south african navy diesel fueled submarines CANNOT, i repeat, they CANNOT mount any naval blockade of nigerian waters. FACT proved scientifically !


only a nuclear fueled submarine of the world's big military super powers can fight against nigeria without being seen and sunk

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It can stay sumbered for days. This is not ww2.

It can ras to refuel, and the underwater range is on battrys not diessiel. That is how far it's battries will take it. Wow did you think it saied with a diessiel engien under water? There are at least 3 complet morons here. You one of them.

zaandrew:

Yes thunder had to refuel in south africa and restok stock.

i hate repeating old posts, NNS Thunder is USCGC Chase ship, and it has travel range of 21,000 km without refuelling.

south africa is only 5,000 km away from lagos. NN Thunder will sail from lagos to cape town twice and return back home twice without stopping to refuel anywhere. you are just dumb and dull


Speed: 29 knots (54 km/h)
Range: 14,000 miles (22,000 km)
Endurance: 45 days

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Chase_(WHEC-718)

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