also if there is any historical figure that was called izomor in the past, then efeizomor would mean izomor 's wealth.

and in edo i think we have/had a historical figure that was called ezomo.

anyway lemme just wait for the igbo meaning of efeizomor.

Efeizomor :: which part is the "wealth", "raise", and "child/children"?

----

@ChinenyeN

in edo

efe - riches/ wealth
omo - child

i can't write edo properly but i know that

zo - grow
eh zo - does not grow

so efeizomor would be a phrase in edo that would mean riches/wealth does not raise a child.

and here are related names in edo

efehi - spirit's wealth
efosa - god's wealth
efemo - child's wealth

i guess u can see how efeizomor sounded edo to me and how i could easily translate it with edo. but who knows maybe it has another meaning rooted in igbo.

We can give the word `Efeizomor` different meanings. Also it could  be a corruption of a Edo name/word which would throw the native speaker off in an attempt to translate.

Efe-wealth
I-cannot,does not(`I`pronounced `ee`is a negation of action. `I setin`-I cannot.`I ma hi kho`-I did not wish evil).
Zo-grow,sprout
Zo-divine(visit to a traditional doctor for prophesy).
Zo-Propitiate(Sacrifices a woman does for adultery,mostly,or for evil doings in her matrimony).
Ze-choose,decide.
Omo-child.
Ezomo-a war general.
Izomo-naming ceremony.

If the Obi`s name is Edo then I honestly cannot place the exact meaning.
I believe the name is Eka!

Efeizomor is not Igbo. The rise of Oba Ewuare the great retarded the Nri culture of Western Igboland. The evidence is in the names you see in the Ika areas. But just some names.

Not just names.What some people are still saying is that their ancestry is different from that of others so do not lump all of them together as Igbo.

bokohalal:

Not just names.What some people are still saying is that their ancestry is different from that of others so do not lump all of them together as Igbo.

Guy you do not get the point. There is no common Igbo ancestry. Some Igbo communities claim they come from Israel, some claim Benin, some claim Idah. There others who claim they came from Ijaw land, Ibibioland and those who believe that they do not come from anywhere. Having an ancestry from Benin does not mean you are not Igbo. Are Hausa Iraqis since they trace their ancestry from Iraq?.

By your logic you can have various ancestry and be Igbo but no other?That is the problem. You have to let those that do not want to be Igbo be what they want to be.

bokohalal:

By your logic you can have various ancestry and be Igbo but no other?That is the problem. You have to let those that do not want to be Igbo be what they want to be.

Those that do not want to be Igbo are free not to be Igbo. But they should allow those from their groups that want to be Igbo to do as they please. It is an outright stupidity for any one who does not want to be Igbo to claim that others in his community are not Igbo. If someone from Owa says he is not Igbo, no qualms but he shouldn't display stupidity by claiming that others from his community are not Igbo.

exotik, thank you.

bokohalal:

By your logic you can have various ancestry and be Igbo but no other?That is the problem. You have to let those that do not want to be Igbo be what they want to be.

'Igbo' is not (cannot be) defined by origin. It is defined by linguistic classification (primarily).

ezeagu:

Gladly.

[center][img]http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WXouAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA48&img=1&pgis=1&dq=%22Though+we+know+our+root+is+firmly+Nri%22&sig=ACfU3U1JwkgHfqsFGZrq-NHezV3OZeNAqQ&edge=0[/img][/center]
http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=asn0TfnfJY2q8AOL_IiwBw&ct=result&id=WXouAQAAIAAJ

Community development in Owa Kingdom: the Nigerian factor, Efeizomor II (Obi of Owa) NWA NSHI.

Thanks,you are the man,that post will keep agbontaen in check for now, he disappeared for months after your posted that book,only to return now thinking we have forgotten why he disappeared.

vicenzo:

Thanks,you are the man,that post will keep agbontaen in check for now, he disappeared for months after your posted that book,only to return now thinking we have forgotten why he disappeared.

Thanks for the above quote.
Thanks as well to the originator here-Ezeagu.

Andre Uweh:

Thanks for the above quote.
Thanks as well to the originator here-Ezeagu.

  You are welcome,we are all lucky to have a proud igbo son like ezeagu amongst us.
  For months agbotaen kept exhbiting his folly in this section with his copy and post crap,he wouldn't listen to proud igbo anioma sons like omonuan until ezeagu came to the rescue.

vicenzo:

You are welcome,we are all lucky to have a proud igbo son like ezeagu amongst us.
For months agbotaen kept exhbiting his folly in this section with his copy and post crap,he wouldn't listen to proud igbo anioma sons like omonuan until ezeagu came to the rescue.

Ogbuefi1-an Ika and a proud Igbo finally silenced him and his collaborators.

Ogbuefi 1: 3)Like I said earlier , I have roots in Esanland , we share boundaries , farm and inter marry and many Esan settlements were even founded by Anioma settlers.I donot hate Edo people, I cant.

Having roots in Esan has nothing to do with anything discussed in this thread. It really doesn't. I'm going to ignore this whole issue of who you hate or don't hate because it's not even relevant. You can tell yourself whatever you want but nobody here is really all that gullible.

It is your insults to someone who is hurt by those sad events that was the reason for my attack.

That guy wants to assign blame to a larger group based on the actions of a small fraction, but has yet to apply the same reasoning to his own group and engage in the same demonization he crafted for another group. I haven't seen anybody, and not any Binis, go to such lengths to say anything about the Anioma being so very "criminal" because of some of them participating in the crime of the invasion and occupation.

He wants to argue that the executions were due to the genocidal instinct of that group (Bini) at the sight of an Igbo/Anioma, rather than residual anger because of the invasion and takeover. He can believe what he wants, but I will not give him a free pass to start comparing some small fraction of Binis in Benin City pointing out some Anioma for executions to the German nation uniting to exterminate German Jews and other "undesirables" under the "Final Solution".

Perhaps we were all being emotional here.What I will not accept is to rewrite history, no matter how sad or bitter it is.Anioma people have forged  ahead but cant forget what happened especially the kind of reaction from the Benin, Yes, it was wrong to have invaded the Midwest but it was inevitable , Why ? Because the Midwest region had a subtantial percentage of her citizens identified as Igbos.We were not spared in the North when the killings occured nor in the Military and Ejoor who took over from Osadebay did practically nothing to make us feel we have stake in the Midwest.I have records of his visit to my my home town.Our people complained bitterly that we were killed in the North and unlike the East which was more assertive to question the justification for the killings he was mute and nothing was even made to compensate those who left the North with their lives.

I am not really sure that I understand this, so perhaps you can clear it up for me. What exactly did you want Ejoor to do? I just want specifics. He probably should have said more than he did, but I am not sure that he actually had the power to get much done. I think he was waiting to see if an agreement could be reached (about compensation, and other things) between the federal government (in which he held little authority) and the East, and if there wasn't one, just try to keep his region out of the war. He should have asked for compensation for the Anioma, yes, but I don't know that this necessarily justifies any later actions against him.

Because of the selective purge of the military class based on ethnicity, our soldiers were forced to identify themselves with their folks from the East.It is a question of survival.We have examples all over the world, The Rwanda conflict for instance involved the Congo because DRC had Tutsis and Hutus as well. or the Balkans war involving Croats, Serbs and Muslims, or Hitler annexation of Austria, It is always the case, The Midwest could not have been isolated.What was however remarkable was that in that initial thrust to the Midwest , not even one civilian life was lost and I stand by this position.

I didn't say anyone was killed immediately at the time that the initial invasion happened. I used the term "when" more generally. Nobody has ever written that those killings in Lagos street took place immediately during the invasion, so there is not really an argument here.

1)On the claim that Ohaneze said 8,000 lives were lost in the Midwest, You are definitely not correct abt that figure.What Ohaneze said because I have read the document is that over 800 people were killed in Benin during the period of madness in 1967.The claim that over 40,000 Anioma lives were lost is genuine because as a member of the Izu Anioma, I am privy to accounts from all the towns that make up the Anioma area including the killings of that period.There are like I said before , about 100 Anioma towns.From our records and from the figures computed from the four periods of killings Asaba clan leads with between 2,500 to 3000 casualties followed by Ishiagu with 1500-2000 casualities.My town Igbodo had about 200 casualties yet you have some like Owa clan that had less than 100.Aboh and Ndoni each had over 500 casualties.This was based on fact and not speculation.Ishiagu was almost wiped out and the town still bears the scar of the genocide.I personally lost my aunt there.These figures like I noted earlier are based on the initial killings in the North of 1966 including the purge in the military, the killings in the non -Anioma area of the Midwest 1967, the killings in the Anioma area of the Midwest 1967 and the deaths of Anioma citizens stuck in Biafra and those who went voluntary to fight there.I therefore advise you not to insult the sensitivity of the Anioma people on this matter especially if you dont have any evidence to back it.

That was an error on my part then. I was under the impression that what was mentioned was for each person killed in the Midwest after the federal troops took over, but they clearly also mentioned the other killings throughout the entire period.

My issue is that I have not read any specific claims about the killings in Benin that would support what was stated earlier in this thread about thousands of killings or some systematic elimination or the participation of a significant fraction of the populace of the city. I have yet to see the specific number said to be killed in Benin, yet there were specific claims about the people killed in Warri and Sapele. That said, I'm not willing to accept just any specific number without some supporting evidence.

2)There is no way you can compare "ADO" used by the Yoruba to "IDUU" used by the Anioma which reflects in such names like Idumwonyi and Idubor.I have never heard the "Ado" version of these names.In addition I can attest based on our own history that Agbor and Ubulu kingdoms were powerful enough to compel the Benins to fortify the moats on its eastern axis.Ubulu Uku and Agbor as we know were powerful kingdoms and desendants of captured soldiers of Benin origin can still be found in those towns.These towns were also founded before the 11th century which falls within the 7th-14th century time frame of the moats.I do however disagree that the construction of the moats ended in the 14th century because records reveals that Oba Ewuare extend the moats within his period of reign c1440-1473 which falls within the 15th century.

1.

I mean that Ado = Idu = Edo, because they can all refer to the same thing (the Edo people). But for the record, Idu is not necessarily equal to Edo and the original meaning is something different. Idumwonyi does not necessarily mean the same thing as Edomwonyi unless one defines Idu as meaning Edo. Ado is probably a Yoruba pronunciation/variation of Edo, but Idu is really something else originally.

Idumwonyi can be assumed to be a version of Edomwonyi (Edo is respectable) and Idubor can be assumed to be the same as Edobor, but they are really not the same in all cases. When Idu or Edo is used, the names can sometimes be the same, but not always.

I found out that Idu can mean:

a) the spirit of the ancestors of the land

b) The supposed ancestor of the Edo, a man named Idu

c)  the Edo people

For example, the name Idugbowa means Idu (the spirit of the ancestors of the land) has established prosperity for me. There is nothing like "Edogbowa" because Idu and Edo are not really equivalent in all circumstances in the Edo language.

The last of these meanings I listed (c) almost certainly comes later than the original meanings.

Idumwonyi should mean that Idu (the spirit of the ancestors of the land) is respected. One can interpret it as meaning the same thing as Edomwonyi, but that is a later creation.

Iduseri means that the spirit of the ancestors of the land has blessed us.

Iduorobo means that the spirit of the ancestors of the land is my doctor/healer

. . .and so on.

That is what Idu really refers to, originally, in the Edo language. However, Idu did come to take on a meaning equivalent to Edo for some names. But it really is not an equivalent, originally, from what I have seen. There are some sources written by Binis where you read that Idu was the original name that preceded Edo, and that may be correct, but Idu had even earlier meanings from what I have read and in the language, meaning (a) above is what Idu usually refers to, rather than meaning (c).


As for Igbos calling the Edo the Idu, taking definition (b) into account, this could be likened to the descendants of a man supposedly called Canaan, being called Canaanites, or the descendants of a man called Shem/Sem being called semites, the descendants of a man called Ham being called Hamites, or the descendants of a man supposedly called Cush being called Cushites by the Hebrews.


2. Yeah, my mention of 7th-14th century was actually incorrect. It is actually 8th-15th century, according to archaeologists and some historians.

3. If the moats were constructed to keep them (Agbor and Ubulu Uku) at bay, then why were the Edo constructing them before they knew of these kingdoms? This is not really a very logical suggestion.

4. If they were in some way in fear of an attack from Agbor or Ubulu Uku, how come the outer wall (not inner wall) around the central part of Benin City was around the western side, but not the eastern side of the central part of Benin?

[img]http://academics.smcvt.edu/africanart/ashley2/Benin%20layout.jpg[/img]

Why didn't they also fortify the most important part of the city around its eastern side, if they had such a compelling threat from that direction?

5. I'm not going to get into a really detailed debate about power of kingdoms, but I think I should mention that the Igala kingdom was said to be powerful, but Benin defeated them (some Igala oral history claims it was a stalemate or that both sides claimed victory, of course) after initially being at grave risk of losing to the Igala (and Benin oral tradition acknowledges this) so I'm not sure that if Benin military prowess was ever really threatened by any other groups (like Agbor or Ubulu Uku), they would shy away from acknowledging it. If they could admit that the Igala were a grave threat, instead of simply portraying the Binis as easily trouncing the Igala, there is no reason at all that they would not have similar memories or traditions about other groups, yet I have not seen anything to suggest that they had any such memory or story about Agbor or Ubulu Uku. I see no reason why the oral histories would arbitrarily choose to acknowledge the military threat of the Igala, but not do so for other groups around Benin. I don't believe that Benin considered itself as being under serious threat from Agbor or Ubulu Uku at some point.

Ogbuefi 1: 4)Now, on the OZA NOGOGO issue, The people of Oza Nogogo are later settlers to Agbor clan and they were granted lands by the Obi of Agbor .According to our history, they were remnants of those who had followed Ezechime from Benin c.1530.Though they have managed to have integrated as part of Agbor, they still manage to speak a corrupt version of Edo with has a lot of Igbo loan words.The ruler of Oza Nogogo is the Ogisi and he is installed by the Obi of Agbor and a member of the Agbor traditional council.With time dispute arosed amongst Oza people and some of them crossed the Orhionmwon river(the boundary between Anioma and Edo lands in that axis) and founded such settlements like Ozanisi and Oza Aibiokunla.Anioma people donot claim those settlements  because their territory donot extend to the area.The title of Ogisi is derived from Agbor and not Benin.Where else do you hear this title other than the Agbor kingdom ? Because I know that the ruler of Agbor Nta bears the title of Ogisi as well.This claim of Benin was just invented because they have longed for so long for clan status .In addition this irresponsible claim of a few native of the sub clan have been dismissed in the courts.

1. I did not really get the impression that they (Oza nogogo) claim an ethnic relationship with any Ikas.

If they migrated from Benin in the early 1500s with other Igbo residents there (like the group that followed EzeChima), why do some of the descendants of those other migrants all speak Igbo languages, but the Oza Nogogo people, who are also in an Igbo area, speak a corrupt version of Edo with Igbo loanwords? Shouldn't they instead be speaking an Igbo dialect with a few Edo loanwords?

2. If one reads certain sources one sees statements that the Oza in Edo state migrated from Aniomaland. But you do not see such statements from the Oza community that is actually there (in Edo state).

Some things to note are that:

a) . "The narrative traditions of Oza-nogogo clearly suggest original Edo settlers" - Onaiwu W. Ogbomo, Oza Nogogo : a peripheral Edo community, Nigeria magazine. 57 (3-4) July-December 1989, pages 89-95

b}. The Oza in Edo state, make no reference to origin from Aniomaland, that I have been able to find. Unless you have any evidence to the contrary.

c) The title Ogisi/Ojisi being found among the Oza nogogo does not really suggest that they have a non-Edo origin. There are some titles among the Ika that are of Benin origin, but this does not prove a Benin origin for most Ikas. The Oza-nogogo people could possibly have adopted the title of Ojisi from their neighbors.

c) I have seen some other Anioma people claim that the Oza Nogogo are Edo, actually (there was a second link I had from a different site, but that poster's original post is not showing now) :

http://www.ikaworld.com/index.php?mod=comment&article=256

"Apart from our brothers from Oza Nogogo who are recent migrant from Bini,the rest of us in Agbor speak a sub-set of Igbo as depicted in our names,market days,etc."

Is the Anioma poster in the topic in that link wrong, and you are right? If so, why?

3. I am really not able to reconcile your claim about Oza-nogogo with your criticism of the Benin Palace.

a) The Oza-nogogo claim to know exactly who they are, and that they are not Ika, but Edo speaking, and should be in Edo state with the other Oza people of Orhionmwon. They claim that they are not really of the Agbor Kingdom in terms of origin, but just under its influence due to recent (colonial) events.

What is the difference here between you saying the Igbanke claim to know exactly who they are and that they are Ika, and not Edo and that they are not of Benin originally, but were just under its cultural influence and under its political influence due to recent (colonial and post colonial) events? Your rejection of the Oza-nogogo claims and your stance on Igbanke shows a double standard in reasoning.

b) There is an Oza community in Edo state, which does not seem to be considered by anyone besides some Anioma people, to have an Anioma origin, so I wonder why you say they are "longing for clan status" when it seems that the larger "clan" (community) to which they want to be reunited with (the Oza community in Edo state) is already in Edo state. I do not think they want to claim that they are a whole, distinct clan. They seem to be claiming, very explicitly and unambiguously, that they are a subset of a "clan" (Oza community) from Edo state.

c) You argue that the Ogisi/Ojisi title (which could easily have been adopted) shows Anioma origin.

Why did you not take into account that the Benin Palace could see the odionwere practice among the Igbanke as signs of an Edo origin? Seems like another double standard in your reasoning.

And it would even be less likely that a title for the senior headman in a village would be adopted than it would be for the title of a ruler to be adopted, for the record. The odionwere practice is unlikely to be something that would be spread by Benin conquest, political annexation, the appointment of overseers or officials in non-Bini territories, etc. or basically any imperialist moves of the Benin Kingdom. It is also not something that is likely to have spread by mere trade between Bini villages and Ika villages. Rather, it is something that would probably come from actual ethnic Binis at the village level. If a Bini was to see this (the odionwere practice) it would not be that unreasonable to assume that the group was of Edo descent. (I'm not claiming that they are, I don't know enough about Igbanke to reach any really strong conclusions, but I'm saying that the belief of the Benin Palace of Edo ancestry for the Igbanke is not some huge stretch of the imagination or so unreasonable as it was portrayed.)

It would seem that you, and whoever else (in the courts, or elsewhere) is claiming the Oza-nogogo are Agbor people, are engaging in exactly what you were criticizing the Benin Palace for. Given this contradiction in your stances, it is either you do a volte-face on your Oza-nogogo claim, or you actually believe that you are an expansionist like those who you were accusing of annexation earlier.

4. In what courts was which specific claim dismissed and on what grounds?

This is what I read:

"Community

Administrative Grouping of Oza-Nogogo

From other historic reviews it is evidenced that before 1907, Oza, Igbanke and Oghada were under the control of the Oba of Benin. It was believed that the Oba effected control of these towns through prominent Chiefs and that some of the last of such Chiefs were Ayobahan and Osula. In 1907, the imperialist ideas of “Divide and Rule” reared its ugly head on Oza. As a result, Oza-Aibiokunla remaining in Akugbe District Council and Oza Nogogo grouped in Ika District Council. Two major reasons were responsible for the split of Oza into two District Councils. One was to weaken the military might of the Benin Kingdom while he other was to enhance easy administration in the absence of a good road/bridge across the Orhionwon River.

Resultant Effects of This Development

The political regrouping of Oza-Nogogo in Ika District Council negates the rule of natural justice which led to the birth of double allegiance-one to his kiths and kins of the Edo speaking area and another arising from the administrative appendage of Oza-Nogogo to the Ika/Ibo speaking people. Hence there has been endless clamour by Oza people for the return of Oza-Nogogo to where she naturally belonged. On their part, the Agbor people see such demand as a threat to the political, socio-economic and cultural existence. Hence stronger means of effecting total domination were introduced. Among such weapons were the introductions of educational system with teachers being brought in from the Ibo speaking race which marked the introduction of a new language and culture.

There was also the introduction of the imperialist made of development popularly referred to as “modernization” which attempts to de-emphasize the traditional patterns of development by ignoring cultural ties and conventions.
The significant factor that has over the years sustained the continuous yoking of Oza-Nogogo to the Ika/Ibo people is the absence of direct contact posed by the river Orhionmwon which some people ignorantly regard as a natural boundary.

Open Secrets About Oza-Nogogo

Even though some people pretend to see Oza-Nogogo people as the same and part of Ika people, some other meaningful Nigerians have at different times or occasions observed that culturally and dialectically Oza-Nogogo people are different species. They have as such suggested ways of easing tension in the area. For example the Chief J.Mariere's (JP) Commission Of Enquiry set up to arbitrate into the dispute between the Agbor and Oza-Nogogo peoples in 1951, recommended the creation of a separate court for Oza-Nogogo, the provisions of a Dispensary, a Postal Agency , Good Roads and a Financial Aid to Oza-Nogogo School. Also in 1956, Chief Obafemi Awolowo recommended the creation of a separate clan for Oza-Nogogo(Ozarra) from the then Ika Native Authority."

http://ozaelitefoundation.org/cmnty.html

@Omojie, hahaha, Why didnt you post more if you know so much abt Ika history ? If indeed you are from Agbor and you know much abt Agbor why didnt you explain the issue of Ozanogogo and why Physics MHD thinks Ika People are IGBO ? You see Omojie you are a confusionist and you are too insignificant to undermine wht Ika and Anioma stands for ! Even in the said Ndiowa page Omojie keep refering refering us to did not at any time deny whatever connection between the Ika and the Eastern Igbo and the Obi of Owa has always emphasized on that.The concept of Ika is recent just like the one he wants to reduce.He also comes to talk abt who is core Ika after he has failed to convince anyone in the forum, A case of desparation and misplaced arguements !!!!!

On Physics MHD

ON THE OZANOGOGO ISSUE
1)The Ozanogogo people are linear relatives of the the Ezechime group from Benin.I have seen some of your posts in which you tried to argue that the Umuezechime are of Igbo descent since the name of the founder of the clan Eze Chime is Igbo, Not true.Eze means a king absolutely correct, But Chime comes from Ikhimen an Edo name, It has always been customary for the Anioma to pronounce the Edo "kh" as "ch" and infact that tendency somewhat is creeping into the Esan area, I was at Amendokhian-Uromi not long ago and I noticed the natives call it "Amedochian", This was the case in Aniomaland centuries ago.In Onitsha town it is pronounced as Chima since the Westren Igbo "e" has been replaced with the Eastern Igbo "a'', A good example is the name "Egbune" ; In the Eastern Igbo area it would sound "Egbuna".There are enough eveidence that Ezechime came from Benin and I will give some examples
1)In the town of Ogume in Ndokwa East one of the founders of the Clan was said to be "Chime" and the group from Benin was led by "Izedogume" from which the name Ogume was derived from.Now it will be noticed that Chime one of the founders and the linear ancestor of one of the sub clans called Umuochime at present is also being claimed to have originated from Benin, Izedogume can easily be linked to "Izedomwen" which is still borne in Benin today.What is interesting here is that there are no ancestral linkages between the Umuezechime clan of the upland and the Umuochime clan of the Ndokwa area.

2)The title of Onitsha town in Anambra State is Ado N'Idu meaning Onitsha which originated from Udo in Benin Kingdom.Our people know our history and it is often customary for offshoot clans to make references to their places of origin.Thus we have AHABA NTEJE(Asaba from Nteje) , ATUMA IGA or Atuma clan from Igala , IBUSA ISUNAMBOGU meaning Ibusa from Isu and are notable warriors and so on.This trait was even noticed by NW THOMAS in his 1913 Anthropological Report on the Western Igbo in which he noted that unlike most clans in the East , the Western Igbo clans differ in elaborating on their origin including where they came from.

3) The Omu title is unique amongst the Anioma people and it simply translates as the Queen or Queen Mother.In the 1974 account by Zik he noted that his grand mother( he was born in 1904) told him that the Onitsha people came from Benin during the reign of Asije(apparently Oba Esigie) and made reference to Gbunwala or Iguala (derived from Arhuaran the brother of Oba Esigie and ruler of Udo where Ezechime came from).In Anioma account of course varying from one town to the other, GBUNWALA was seen a (a)warrior who fought with the Oba (b) the ruler of Udo the principal town of Benin in those days (c)the head of the Benin imperial army and (d) a giant so powerful that he dug most of the walls of Benin.Incidentally these some of these attributes fits into the description of Arhuaran.For the Anioma people Gbunwala soon became the title of a notable warrior since it was said that he gave the Oba a tough time.
Ezechime was one of those warriors of Udo who had fought against Esigie and never really accepted the imperial authority of the Oba even after the defeat.Following the war with Igala c.1516-17, the Oba's mother influence grew immensely.In one instance, she trampled upon Ezechime farmlands and ordered her slaves to harvest the crops without permission.She was opposed by Ezechime and his family who beat up the guards and flogged the Iyoba mercilessly(you wont see that in any Benin account).After the display of fury, was when they realised that this act could warrant a death penalty or banishment and this was why they fled and were received in Agbor by an Obi called Akina( some accounts Obi Adigwe which I doubt).Because they were strangers they were settled at the outskirts of the Agbor kingdom.Some settled in the present site of Alisimien while others settled in Ozanogogo.It was the Alisimien group that settled in Obior and the act of emigration from Agbor to Obior is dramatized in the Agbor royal feast of OSOEZI.
It was when they got to Obior that they created titles similar to the case in Benin.The Obi was clearly derived from the Oba and the Omu clearly derived from the IYOBA.It was from the Umuezechime clan that the Omu title diffused all over Aniomaland.

Some contemporary writers have tried to argue that the Ezechime came from Eastern Igbo because of the name but they failed to realise that the name itself originated from an Edo word which is mainly borne in the Esan axis to this day.

2)The name Ozanogogo is known in Agbor Kingdom is actually AGBOR-OZARRA(Ozarra shortened as Oza is the leader of the group that stayed behind) and they were granted rights to settle on Agbor lands and the leading family member was made the community head.Because of the peripheral nature of Ozarra they managed to reatin an archaic form of Edo which have been saturated by loan Igbo words.A few generations later some of them crossed the Ossiomo river to found Oza Aibiokunla which is on Benin terr.Incidentally Igbanke lies East of the Ossiomo river just like Agbor and Ozanogogo but Benins make baseless and unfounded claims on that community.

3)The clamour for seperation for Ozarra is mainly a recent development and it is just for economic reasons.In Oza are vast reserves of kaolin and other minerals and for generations the Obis of Agbor have always been paid royalties on those mines.The Ozarra simply wants to control these resources and the best opportunity came with the unfortunate and untimely death of Obi Ikenchukwu in 1979.Of course with the new Obi at just three years and sent overseas, it was the best opportunity for the seperatist to give whatever excuse they want to give as justification.Not just Ozarra other Agbor sub clans like Oki, Emuhu and Ekuku-Agbor joined the fray.They were all defaeted in the courts.In those judgemnets as it relates to Ozanogogo it was affirmed that Ozanogogo is part and parcel of Benin whether or not they speak a corrupt Edo or not.

4)From the account by Mr Otabor in the link you provided, I willadvise you read the stor on the other half.It will be noticed that even many Oza people bear Igbo names, At least I saw one name like "Agwuazia", That is definitely not Edo.Even the names of the villages of Oza some beginning with "Idumu" follows the Anioma pattern in contrast to the Edo "Idumwun".In Oza (unlike Benin) when kolanuts are broken , prayers are made in the name of the Obi of Agbor in whose domain they lie and not the Oba.Traditionally , the Agbor Agbor kingdom is divided into four provinces/military namely IME-OBI, IHU-OZOMOR, IHU-IYASE and EKUKU-AGBOR(derived from the other three).Traditionally these four units contribute men for the royal army and it includes Oza( which belongs to Ihu-Ozomor).Besides the unique Oza dialect is not only spoken in Oza there are other villages like Alilehan where it is spoken yet the prefix Ali- is an Igbo word meaning the "land of"

5)Odionwerie title of Igbanke, Very funny.In the western Ika clans of Agbor, Abavo, Owa and Igbanke(annexed by imperial Benin) , the title of Odionwerie is borne by the oldest male in the community and simultaneosly he is as well called the Okparan.I will advice to go to Ndiowa.com for reference.In the case of Igbanke, it is the Odionwerie ( better known as the Ogele) that installs all Ojehs (manipulated by the Benins to sound as Enogies) of Igbanke and this is the case in many Anioma towns such as Umunede and Igbodo.The Igbanke sub clan of Umuolua follows the normal Igbo naming pattern with the prefix Umu- meaning children of and has nothing to do with Edo culture.

6)The title of Ojisi is unique to Agbor and has nothing to do with even other Ika clans, in the study of titles be it in Edo or Aniomalands , there are authorities such titles are derived from and in the case of Oza the title of Ojisi is derived from the Obi of Agbor and he is a member of the Agbor Traditional Council.I am not aware that the Ojisi was an imposition because the Oza people relish the title with pride.On the contrary the Ojehs of Igbanke have never being derived fom the Obas of Benin.To start with, if Igbanke had always been part of Benin, they would not have been 6 Ojehs.In Anioma customs some towns have multiple of rulers , some ranked higher than the others nor would the Oba allow the Obi of Agbor to install the Ojeh of Ottah-Igbanke which is the custom.All Ojehs of Igbankes are called Ezes and all of them hold the Ofo(Ali) of their communities which is the most imporatnt symbol of authority in Igbanke.I understand you like to research a lot, In Prof Philip Igbafe's book on the colonial administration of Benin kingdom, he clearly stated that Igbanke is an Ika clan and not a a conquered terr by Benins nor is their lands ever being part of Benin kingdom.Infact all Ika clans as well as Oghara and Jesse were part of Benin district until the Ikas were placed in Asaba division in 1909-1910.Some Igbanke sub clans declined because of a bitter war/imperial tendencies of Agbor hence they decided to remain in Benin but those issues are irrelevat today.Besides Ottah, Oligie and Idumodin were only of recent lumped to Benin.
My dear Physics MHD if you think that Ozanogogo being included as a part of Agbor is one reason why the Igbanke should held by imperial Benin as justified, then think again.

@Physics MHD,

1)On a different court for Ozanogogo does not translate to a different clan nor transfer to Benin kingdom, I will therefore advice you read the remarks without any bias.One of the reasons given by the Ozas was language and distance and this was justified and even supported by many Agbor who simultaneously recommended that such courts should as well be established in the peripheral towns such as Oza, Emuhu and Oki.I was challenge you to provide one single document when all Oza people were together under one Akugbe native authority(not district) of Benin.It was never the case.Igbanke along with other Ika clans were even part of the old Benin district ( except you are saying that all Ika clans should be transferred back to Benin).Who ever gave that account does not even know what he is saying.
Now on the issue of Ikaworld.com, let me put it this way, The claim that the Ika(Anioma) market days are different from Edo market days is wrong and I think the author of that account got it all wrong.The Anioma and Edo people call the market days similarly and ascribe to them different purposes which as well shows some similarities.The author of that may not personally understand why Ozarra came to be where they are at present.Or I would say he would want Ika land to be described as a homogenous unit but this has never been the situation in Aniomaland.Our people are of diversed origin and in some other clans like Ebu and Ugbodu we still hear some other dialects such as Yoruba and Igala.What however unites us is our history , customs/civilization and identity.There are of course a few voices of dissent but I bet you if a referendum is conducted in Ozarra today, most would want to remain in Agbor and those who would want to join Benin will do so because they want to identify with their Oza Aibiokunla kith and kin and not because they see their lands as part of the domain of the Oba nor do they wholly identify themselves as mainstream Benin People.
If I should follow , your line of arguement then I will be like many Anioma people be willing to give up Ozarra in replacement of Igbanke, and other Ika communities in Beninlands like Iru, Igbogiri and Owa Iriuzor(renamed Evbo Obanosa).As far I am concerned this claim is no different from the baseless claims Benins are making on Ijaw teritories in the Ovia area which led to the faceoff by the Oba and the Alli administration in 1983.

2)On the issue of Idu , I only said that it is even a more ancient name for the Benins and it reflects in some names.Of course you agreed with me when you said that in an account Idu is seen as the name of the ancestor of the Benin , a reminder of its ancient origin.This name also attests to the antiquity of the earliest ancestors of Aniomalands.Because we have never had another name for the Benin people.For the Esan, we call them Ishan, a name which got stuck with the colonialists.It is also quite possible that the original meaning of IDU changed as the Edo nation began to acquire newer names like Edo which is now known today and the result is tht the definition of IDU only became wider.

3)Good, for correcting yourself on the history of the moats and I know it was done deliberately because you think the person you are debating with is a neophyte in matters like this, The moats from your diagram was done only in Benin City as an Edo man, you ought to know that Benin was not the only town in the Benin Kingdom tht had moats.Udo had moats, Ugo had moats as well.The reason I think for the western fortification of the city is apparently to defend the town from Udo and this could have been the reason Udo people did theirs.But what of the Ugo axis ? Or is that not in the Eastern section of Benin lands.The entire network of the Benin moats have been defined in many publications and in many of these accounts it was noted that it could (especially on those on the eastern periphery) as a result of Igbo Expasion towards the west ie Benin.There is even an account amongst Anioma people that the town of Urhonigbe was actually founded by Benin warriors stationed on the site by the Oba to keep the city safe from invaders from the East and this explains for its unusually large size for a Benin settlement.

On if the Benins knew of the Agbor and Ubulu Uku kingdoms, How did you know if they dont know abt the kingdoms ? Because there are evidences they knew than they didnot know.A good example is the distribution of food crops usually economic trees which are relatively unknown in Yorubaland but have always formed the diet of the Anioma/Igbo and the Edo people.Let me give an example, The African Breadfruit, In Yorubaland it is virtually unknown but in Edo and Anioma lands it is a staple food item.This is how you study history.Those Anioma kingdoms were powerful and your Egharevba in an attempt to uphold Benin pride decided to give an account that suites the prestige of Benin Imperial power.In Ubulu Uku for instance the Benins were defeated severally by a force made up of only Eight people and when the Benins assisted by the Esans attempted to push further, the result was that Isidahomen the Onojie of Opoji was killed and the new leader of the Benin forces , Agbogidi of Ugo( who was brought up at Ubulu Uku and knew a lot abt Ubulu Uku because he was brought up there) was captured and made to capitulate by joining the Ubulu army.It was when the Benins saw that , that they sued for peace because their strongest link had been captured.This is our own version because in Ubulu Uku today in Onije and Onicha Qtrs are descendants of the Agbogidi and captured Benin soldiers .The people there also agree with our own version on wht led to their sojourn in Ubulu Uku.It is because of the Benin pride tht the Egharevba's story was fabricated and the Benins themselves deny it.It is just the same way the Igalas deny that they were not conquered by the Benins.One of the periphernalia of the Attah Igala is a mask he usually wears as a necklace and this was captured from the Oba himself ! And this is their own account.Perhaps if not for the Portuguese that assisted the Benins with guns and get a little insight into the war, we could as well accepted that as "history".
Another reason could be that whereas Igala is seen as a large imperial power like Benin, the tendency is for writers to pay more attention there and secondly because it lies in a distinct geo cultural zone.

4)On the later actions on Ejoor ? Plz specify or is it the account of fleeing to Lagos on bicycle, ? Issues like compensation could be dismissed by you but for us it meant a lot.Lot was the fate of the Anioma born military personnels who survived slaughtering in the military purge that ultimately led to the war ? The simple fact is that the Anioma being a subtantial section of the Old Midwest ought to have her sentivities taken into account including those who were within the military.Rather it was the likes of Ejoor perhaps threatened by the Igboness of those who evn come from the same Midwest region that failed to win the hearts of the all the stakeholders especially in the military.You wont blame them at all.

5)On slave or servant, what ever you want to believe let it suit you ! All I know even from Bradbury's account is that there is a proper definition of lineages within Benin Kingdom , you , Bokohalal and Exotik should all know which you belong because it reflects in your morning greetings.It is only slaves tht are not allowed to share those priveleges, I begin to wonder how come a "noble servant" whose name was adopted for the kingdom could not be identified with an origin.

6)On HDI Report, please endeavour to go through the Index section of the report nad make comparisons between the LGAs because it was elaborately explained there.I am not from Ughelli and therefore I am surprised when Ughelli is being used as an example.I simply said we should make comaprisons between the Anioma LGAs and the Benin LGAs especially those within what I call the "jungle dominated" LGAs outside the Benin metropolitan LGAs.Since I dont have much time to write, I am suggesting you try and paste your findings for the forum to see.

7)More on the quotes and misquotes by yourself and those authors, As far as I am concerned you just choose whatever suits your case, In Talbots account for instance you stated that the spate of human sacrifice which Benin is famous was "exxergerated" Yet in his analysis of the 1921 census which was based on facts on ground that place the Benin as being smaller than the Esan and Afenmai you will forget if such an analysis even exists.Yet you went on to brand the Benin as the "majority" in Edo state.

iguefi, one interesting point i got from your post is that you, a proud igboman has stated with detailed explanation of how ezechime was of edo origin and not of igbo origin. but tomorrow now, if the edo people want to take pride in the fact that their indigenes founded most of the settlements that later became major cities in modern day southern nigeria, including part of igboland like onitsha, im sure another “proud” igboman will be quick to say ezechime was not of edo origin but of igbo origin. you guys can't be serious and can't have it both ways.

btw, iguefi, how did the title "Ado N'Idu" now translate to "Onitsha which originated from Udo in Benin Kingdom?"  that does not make sense
is Ado now the authentic igbo name for Onitsha? the title should be renamed Onitsha N'Idu, or Onitsha should be renamed Ado, only then will it make sense.

and that your fictional story of the flogging of the iyoba, whom i assume was idia, was very funny i must say. thanx for adding humour to your posts.

Perhaps we were all being emotional here.What I will not accept is to rewrite history, no matter how sad or bitter it is.Anioma people have forged  ahead but cant forget what happened especially the kind of reaction from the Benin, Yes, it was wrong to have invaded the Midwest but it was inevitable , Why ? Because the Midwest region had a subtantial percentage of her citizens identified as Igbos.We were not spared in the North when the killings occured nor in the Military and Ejoor who took over from Osadebay did practically nothing to make us feel we have stake in the Midwest.I have records of his visit to my my home town.Our people complained bitterly that we were killed in the North and unlike the East which was more assertive to question the justification for the killings he was mute and nothing was even made to compensate those who left the North with their lives.

Ogbuefi, I believe the above quotation came from one of your responses.

I am following the discussion but will make best effort to restrain my response, unless where giving my voice to the issue is a necessity to establish truth and correct errors in understanding and perception.

This point has been argued numerous times and Igbos refuse to admit that any injuries, fatalities, losses, damages, humiliation, that you suffered during the 67 coup and the coup was forward-earned by your widespread and selective cold blood murders, first of Yoruba and Hausa leaders; and second, as you marched from Benin and butchered lives along the way to Ore.

When you start a fight it will end in an unpredictable outcome, sometime with less blow hitting you than you delivered, and other times with far more blows knocking you out than you had delivered. There is regulation in peace, but none in war!

You are bitter that Ejoor did not advocate for compensation for losses. Do you think war is a boxing enterprise where the winner still get a consolation price?

, And then blamed Awo for only giving 20 pounds. Well, here is a question for you: what did Ojukwu do to help your recovery? What did Zik or Okpara did to aid your recovery. You blame everyone else but the patrons of your war, but yet you welcomed Ojukwu back as an hero and hated awo and Ejoor and Gowon for life.

where the winner still get a consolation price


Meant the "looser" there!

Negro_Ntns:

Perhaps we were all being emotional here.What I will not accept is to rewrite history, no matter how sad or bitter it is.Anioma people have forged  ahead but cant forget what happened especially the kind of reaction from the Benin, Yes, it was wrong to have invaded the Midwest but it was inevitable , Why ? Because the Midwest region had a subtantial percentage of her citizens identified as Igbos.We were not spared in the North when the killings occured nor in the Military and Ejoor who took over from Osadebay did practically nothing to make us feel we have stake in the Midwest.I have records of his visit to my my home town.Our people complained bitterly that we were killed in the North and unlike the East which was more assertive to question the justification for the killings he was mute and nothing was even made to compensate those who left the North with their lives.

Ogbuefi, I believe the above quotation came from one of your responses.

I am following the discussion but will make best effort to restrain my response, unless where giving my voice to the issue is a necessity to establish truth and correct errors in understanding and perception.

This point has been argued numerous times and Igbos refuse to admit that any injuries, fatalities, losses, damages, humiliation,  that you suffered during the 67 coup and the coup was forward-earned by your widespread and selective cold blood murders, first of Yoruba and Hausa leaders; and second, as you marched from Benin and butchered lives along the way to Ore.

When you start a fight it will end in an unpredictable outcome, sometime with less blow hitting you than you delivered, and other times with far more blows knocking you out than you had delivered.  There is regulation in peace, but none in war! 

You are bitter that Ejoor did not advocate for compensation for losses. Do you think war is a boxing enterprise where the winner still get a consolation price?

, And then blamed Awo for only giving 20 pounds. Well, here is a question for you: what did Ojukwu do to help your recovery?  What did Zik or Okpara did to aid your recovery.  You blame everyone else but the patrons of your war, but yet you welcomed Ojukwu back as an hero and hated awo and Ejoor and Gowon for life.

  Dude,i don't get your point,few igbo military men killed other millitary men and leaders from north,the north carried a counter coup that killed igbo millitary men and leader ironsi,shouldn't what happened in the millitary an the the elite class stay amongst them,why drag innocent citizens into it.
  We didn't ask anybody to give us anything,begging is not tolerated in igboland,we simply asked that what we had in the bank should be given back to us, but no,awolowo wanted to economically strangulate ndiigbo,who the hell pushes somebody that is already on the ground,but ndiigbo are tough people from the ashes of the war and awo's wickedness,we rose to become the people with the lowest poverty rate in nigeria.

When news of the bloodshed went on air the Eastern region was the only jubilating.

Those few Igbo officers were speaking for and acting on behalf of Okpara, the seat of administration for the people, and therefore by extension, the citizens themselves.
The followup to their success is backed by a widespread sponsorship of Igbo interests and unmerited promotions into corridors of power.

They assasinated in cold blood Yoruba and Hausa leaders and installed a new pattern of sponsorship where Igbos were advaned from low ranks of military and civil service and given headship of departments.

The few acted and spoke for the many.

In the war, why did you butcher innocent lives starting in Benin and all the way to Ore? You claim you were looking for Gowon. Sorry excuse! You deserved what you got.

When you fight and loose war the victor is obligated to charge you reparations.

The money you lost in bank savings is a reparated funD to cover military cost.

^^^Brain-dead monkey, once again I warn you idiott to buzz the shitt you have been spreading around. Ndigbo were more placed than any ethnic group in Nigeria during the first republic. Azikiwe was president, Orizu Nwafor was senate president, etc. Ndigbo dominated the civil service in the east and the north and there was no reason for that coup. Bloody sniking idiott, quit all this your Igbo this and that in every thread. Moreover, you are derailing this thread, so phuck off, douche bag.

I guess the counter coup and the war has served you as "lessons learnt". Has it not?

Warn your sons to keep their hands off other people blood. Right?

Negro_Ntns:

I guess the counter coup and the war has served you as "lessons learnt". Has it not?

Warn your sons to keep their hands off other people blood. Right?

Yes we have learnt our lessons but we have recovered and moved ahead of you and your backward group. Hence, it high time you baxtards learn from our quick recovery rate learn to move ahead, baboon phucking asz fart.