I read through this post and it is shocking to see how religious people are. I read the post about the true meaning of "touch my anointed" and i expected that after reading this, people would post sensibly. As xtians, we are kings and priests unto God. Every believer is anointed! We all have a duty to expose evil! Since we arent all 4rm d same denomination, a xtian thread is a good place to make our opinions known. The bible says " condemn evil at the gate! Why should we cotinue using TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED out of context? I expect my Pastor to do what he preaches. I expect him to step down if he cant but continually commit sin. I, like Paul rebuked Peter in Galatians 2:11-14, will rebuke any Pastor who doesnt preach sound doctrine, in whose denomination you`ll find thieving politicians, business men etc. sitting comfortably. Pastor Tunde Bakare read out a letter 3 wks ago, stating this "it has come to d notice of d church council that some members of d church have been reported  by insiders and those outside to have defrauded and commited various -ve acts, we are giving you x months, to repent and do d necessary restitution, or I will read out your names in PUBLIC". That is a man of God I RESPECT. If he becomes -ve, I will rebuke him. Yes, they are men, yes they are prone to do wrong. But a BELIEVER DOES NOT MAKE A PRACTICE OF SINNING COS GOD`S SEED ABIDES IN HIM (1 John 3:. The name of God is blasphemed because of so- called believers that bring the name of God to disrepute. But i believe that the things we see are signs of d times. We`re are supposed to be seperate 4rm d world. We`re supposed to be d salt of the earth. If we lose our saltiness as believers, how will the world taste GODLINESS!

tkb417:

sight of God but not sight of Adeboye; Adeboye is not God

Em, who does Adeboye claim to work for?
In whose name does Adeboye collect the offering?

You concede in the sight of God akingbola was a thief, it therefore follows that God did not receive the offerings as God does not acknowledge the money of thieves, why is Adeboye keeping money God did not accept in the first place

do you think an adulterers offering is acceptable to God? or a liar? all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. By your postulation, everybodys offering will not be acceptable to God. Let God decide who and who he takes offering from.

is this an excuse?
So wrong.

This is the full text ; Romans 3 :23-24

23.For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" (Romans 3:23-24).

verse 24 exists you know.

Even if your excuse were to hold any water, Unfortunately for you, that is exactly what christianity preaches. If you cannot live by the rules of God then dont bother worshipping with your offerings as they are NOT acceptable. Very simple

Offerings are a form of worship and if nobody is there to worship God said he can raise stones to do the worshipping.

God does not need your dirty money, issuing threats like ''then nobody's offering will be acceptable'' are quite useless as stones can be called up to do the job.

God does not accept money from thieves and no one who claims to act on behalf of God should keep ANY money given by a thief.

I dont know what God wants. I am human not God and i doubt ure God too

Lame, it is clearly written in the bible what God expects from you. Hogging wealth given by thieves aint definately one of them.

tell us how you want Adeboye to know which of the offerings came from the illegally acquired wealth. Akingbola is a rich man just like Ovia i repeat. He built the bank from scratch so u shd know how rich he is
see applicable comments above

I repeat for the millionth time, there is absolutely NO NEED for any distinction. All money from a thief is considered ''unholy'' and ''unacceptable'' by God.

Seeking to make a distinction between legal and illegal wealth of a thief is an excuse for greed and to evade doing the right thing.

same ol' hogwash

*** Adeboye acted when the allegations came up

**** Erastus is rich enough to give

**** God knows what to reject and from whom he'll reject - in essence, let God do his work. I DO NOT KNOW whom God has classified a sinner
even on the cross when Jesus was to b crucified, one of thieves around him got saved

Adeboye is not on planet earth to chastise and condemn sinners, his mandate is to preach the word of God to them
Condemning sinners is not one of the mandates, let the law enforcement agents do their thing if they have issues with Adeboye and Erastus

tkb417:

same ol' hogwash

*** Adeboye acted when the allegations came up

Why not 'act' by returning dirty money from a thief?

Why dismiss the man but keep his money?

**** Erastus is rich enough to give

He is also a thief. God looks at the heat and personality of the giver not how rich he is.

**** God knows what to reject and from whom he'll reject - in essence, let God do his work. I DO NOT KNOW whom God has classified a sinner

It is clearly written in the bible whom God rejects their offerings. Thieves fall in that category.

It is also written who sinners are. THIEVES t fall in that category too!.

even on the cross when Jesus was to b crucified, one of thieves around him got saved

i dont understand the relation here. How much did jesus collect from him?

Adeboye is not on planet earth to chastise and condemn sinners, his mandate is to preach the word of God to them
Condemning sinners is not one of the mandates, let the law enforcement agents do their thing if they have issues with Adeboye and Erastus

*YAWN*
he is here to preach to sinners not collect money from sinners and refuse to return as the bible suggests. Big difference

Logic is not supposed to have any place in religion? If it did, then we all know that a premise built on fallacy can't stand. The title of this thread is just one of those fallacies crying for help. We're asked to decide whether Akingbola's loot should be returned. The only problem is that we haven't proven that Akingbola looted in the first place, therefore the question about returning his offerings should not arise in a logically sound preposition. I will not go into the political calculations made by the church to remove him, because that's only up to the church hierachy to decide.

Finally, for all those rushing to execute Akingbola before the courts actually convict him, what would you do if at the end of all this saga, he is found innocent
Remember many people accused in this disorganied CBN move have already either been vindicated, or their positions restored. How much apology would be enough to compensate Akingbola if at the end of the day, he was found not to have looted any money?

The only problem is that we haven't proven that Akingbola looted in the first place, therefore the question about returning his offerings should not arise in a logically sound preposition. I will not go into the political calculations made by the church to remove him, because that's only up to the church hierachy to decide.

Finally, for all those rushing to execute Akingbola before the courts actually convict him, what would you do if at the end of all this saga, he is found innocent

If Akingbola might still be innocent, How come GoDaddy "retired" him as a Pastor?

when OBJ left power we all condemned him as the worst president, a great looter of our treasury.was there any proof that he looted our treasury? there was none- but we wld be deceiving ourselves if we say we didnt know he did,yet we all condemned him,now because of a popular man of God, alot of us are saying leave judgement to God.a thief is a thief anyday.If only things were good in this country or even we were among the G8 nations of the world,we would not be this fanatic about religion-infact how many pple would even go to church.when there is breakthru a lot of pple forget about God but when there is problem they return back to Him. If not for poverty&hardship we would not be this narrow in thinking.everyone is looking forward to breakthru by hook or crook and thereby been deceived or taken advantage of by some of these men of God.pls stop placing curses on Tudor&Dayokanu,they are entitled to their opinion.infact Tudor is more knowledgeable and intelligent than some of these fanatics on this forum,she has facts to back up every claim she has to prove.if only this forum was a physical gathering, there would have been blood shed.
i pray we all open our eyes one day to be sensible about issues and stop being sentimental.these are surely the reasons we are lagging behind as a nation
Finally, where i come from i learn to call a spade a spade and not a farm implement.

Iniabasi:

when OBJ left power we all condemned him as the worst president, a great looter of our treasury.was there any proof that he looted our treasury? there was none- but we wld be deceiving ourselves if we say we didnt know he did,yet we all condemned him,now because of a popular man of God, alot of us are saying leave judgement to God.a thief is a thief anyday.If only things were good in this country or even we were among the G8 nations of the world,we would not be this fanatic about religion-infact how many pple would even go to church.when there is breakthru a lot of pple forget about God but when there is problem they return back to Him. If not for poverty&hardship we would not be this narrow in thinking.everyone is looking forward to breakthru by hook or crook and thereby been deceived or taken advantage of by some of these men of God.pls stop placing curses on Tudor&Dayokanu,they are entitled to their opinion.infact Tudor is more knowledgeable and intelligent than some of these fanatics on this forum,she has facts to back up every claim she has to prove.if only this forum was a physical gathering, there would have been blood shed.
i pray we all open our eyes one day to be sensible about issues and stop being sentimental.these are surely the reasons we are lagging behind as a nation
Finally, where i come from i learn to call a spade a spade and not a farm implement.

I can see there is still hope for this country

@Tudor,
of course the thief who gives his spoils to God will be punished.
i don't think you can compare Cain's sacrifice to God to sunday offering in this case. because seriously, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PURE MONEY in this world. unless it's freshly printed from the mint. and we can't all be going to central bank because we want to pay offering.
as opposed to Cain's rotten food sacrifices vs fresh, best fruits. all money is rotten.
To God, giving your most is what is acceptable vs being stingy and giving too little.

oyinda.:

@Tudor,
of course the thief who gives his spoils to God will be punished.
i don't think you can compare Cain's sacrifice to God to sunday offering in this case. because seriously, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PURE MONEY in this world. unless it's freshly printed from the mint. and we can't all be going to central bank because we want to pay offering.
[b]as opposed to Cain's rotten food sacrifices vs fresh, best fruits. all money is rotten.
To God, giving your most is what is acceptable vs being stingy and giving too little.

[/quote]
Sis, this is the kind of unfortunate incident that happens when you read bible stories from story books or hear it from greedy pastors who twist scriptures so you can give more and more to them.

1. Cain was not said to have given ''rotten'' goods to God.

2. The story of cain and Abel was Never about rotten vs fresh sacrifices or plenty vs little

3. God clearly stated in Genesis 4;7 why cain's sacrifice was rejected and what he had to do to be accepted

[quote]
3In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD.

4. But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor

5. but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6.Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?

7. If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it (Genesis 4:6-7).

Did you see any thing about  ''rotten'' vs ''best'' food there?

Giving from a pure heart is what makes your sacrifice acceptable to God. It clearly states there ''if you do what is right you will be accepted''. God is not a bribe taker where you can buy your way. Dont let a dog of a pastor fool you.

@tudor seems u like God so much why then do still deny his existence?

i believe PASTOR ADEBOYE IS A MAN OF GOD  BUT I BELIEVE he often make mistakes such as  annointing  the wrong persons because they are tallest,handsome and richest.it is a  fact that among redeemed pastors  are thieves,liars etc.it was said sometimes ago that pastor adeboye himself said most redeemed pastors are not born again.my concern is  pastor adeboye is making too many mistakes exposing himself to very harsh criticism.it was also pastor adeboye sometimes ago in jos that said   "no more bloodsed in jos"and the whole jos citizens in the presence of the governor,goc etc  then at the  old jos townsip stadium chorused amen believing the oracle of  GOD has spoken.fellow  brethren ,that was in 2004.it is no news that unpreceedented violence  and bloodshed happened  in jos after his proclaimation of  2004.i will therefore be careful  witH GO DADDY PROPHECIES.I GUESS he is now too comfortable to hear from  heaven precisely.sometimes  times ago ,a  redeemed pastor  died in a  plane crash and it  was  discovered he  has so many wives and he looted  his employer funds to own so many houses  in vgc .it is only if  pastors judge temselves that they will not be  judged and judgement must start from the pulpit.they  give prophecies that never came to pass and are not bothered and proceed to say further "thus sayeth the lord".of cos brethren will lose  respect for  them.

@josite
thats the point. Adeboye isnt a God he must make mistake like everyone of us.
If the bible says all have sinned&fall short the glory of God. I think thats clear that we have missed the mark. Even so called M.O.G. God may not reveal himself to man completely as a result of falling short

Pastors fly in the sky with private jets bought by members money, while thousands of the member live in abject poverty. When Jesus was on earth, if he should accumulate like these days pastor, no one would be as wealth as Jesus.

The life as if the will not die again.

Tell me what is the difference between person looting at Abuja, and you looting the so call tithe pay buy rich and poor.

Imagin someone that becomes a millionaire and later establishes university that ordinary person of his church can not afford to send his/ her child to.

Pastors/ Founders think twice, seek first the kingdom of God.

Alot of u here have relatives, friends n associates in government positions n so on who give u money n favours how many of u reject them? Please!

God knows best eyin eeyan mi

Tudor,

Giving from a pure heart is what makes your sacrifice acceptable to God. It clearly states there ''if you do what is right you will be accepted''. God is not a bribe taker where you can buy your way. Dont let a dog of a pastor fool you.

ok. point is: it's God's decision to accept offering or not. not the pastor. 
as i said earlier, God will reward the looter for their wrongdoing but you can't say that the money is dirty etc. since all money is dirty
thanks for the cain and abel correction.

oyinda.:

Tudor,

ok. point is: it's God's decision to accept offering or not. not the pastor. 
as i said earlier, God will reward the looter for their wrongdoing but you can't say that the money is dirty etc. since all money is dirty
thanks for the cain and abel correction.

my sister, please wake up and smell the coffee- we are no longer in the old testament of the Israelite God who accepeted or rejected offerings that were usually burnt on his altar.
Nowadays, na pastor dey claim to represent god and i don't know of any rejecting an offering yet. If you do, please share the story.

Lord_Reed:

Alot of u here have relatives, friends n associates in government positions n so on who give u money n favours how many of u reject them? Please!

What Would Jesus Do (WWJD) should be the standard of any Christian (follower of Christ's exemplary life and teachings).
By God's grace I do not have to seek or accept money or favours from my friends and relations in government positions that will encourage corruption on their part. You should try to get to that level as well. Ever heard of teh word, contentment?
BTW, you should remember to meditate on Proverbs 14:34 :

Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.

as well as

23 Thus saith the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord.

toba:

@josite
thats the point. Adeboye isnt a God he must ( ) make mistake like everyone of us.
If the bible says all have sinned&fall short the glory of God. I think thats clear that we have missed the mark. Even so called M.O.G. God may not reveal himself to man completely as a result of falling short

can one take it that the yoke of my-pastor-holy-pass is being released from you? i hope that is the case here.
hopefully you will start checking each and every little detail about your pastor's words and actions against the standard set by Christ and the early apostles as recorded in the new testament and be ready to rebuke them privately and publicly if necessary.

Lord_Reed:

Alot of u here have relatives, friends n associates in government positions n so on who give u money n favours how many of u reject them? Please!

is this really an excuse for daddy GO?

hey they do it so i can do it too

bawomolo:

is this really an excuse for daddy GO?

hey they do it so i can do it too

no its a call to check your own life and see if you have restituted all the loot relatives have one way or the other acquired illegally irrespective of how little it is

These are the one u no,imagine those u dont no

Hey All,

Before you nuke NL, I want to just point out something:

God is not mocked! He knows all,  Even what you did last summer  
The men who happen  to be more dedicated to Him (or appear so) notwithstanding,
He remains God!

He ain't nobody's mugu. we all have no secrets stashed where He can't see,
That said, I'm sure no pastor will receive a bag of loot if he knows it's stolen money,  weelllll,   I think so (am I NUTS?!)
anyways the money no leave this world. God values something behind giving,  the LOVE behind it,  and TRUTH!!! (that's right!)

'' God is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in TRUTH'' ------- JESUS

I hope we'll all get our act right, 'cause, with God, there are no curtains!!!

HE'S BEHIND THE SCENES!!!! AT ALL TIMES!!!!

That said, I'm sure no pastor will receive a bag of loot if he knows it's stolen money, weelllll, I think so (am I NUTS?!)

But if he later realizes the money he received was looted

my sister, please wake up and smell the coffee- we are no longer in the old testament of the Israelite God who accepeted or rejected offerings that were usually burnt on his altar.
Nowadays, na pastor dey claim to represent god and i don't know of any rejecting an offering yet. If you do, please share the story.

we are no longer in old testament. so why quote cain and abel from the old testament?
and do u want ur offering to be rejected? u want pastor to start disgracing u for church. hahha

nearly50% of donations made in churches nowadays are stolen.so there is no point asking RCCG to return the money.how will they seperate it 4rm the general offering?THE MONEY BELONGS TO GOD STOLEN OR NOT.

dayokanu:

But if he later realizes the money he received was looted

How would this realisation come about? By the government or courts pronouncing the money as looted.

You can't place the cart before the horse - determination of loot must be established prior to recovery.

If you don't know what is stolen, how can you recover it?

MackDealer
Posts: 70

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Re: Is Rccg And Pastor Adeboye Obliged To Return Akingbola Looted Offering?
« #200 on: July 22, 2010, 07:09 PM »

Can I ask a rather silly question here,

Do we have anybody on this forum who has money deposited at Intercontinetal and Oceanic and have not been able to get their money out?

I keep hearing this Akingbola and Ibru stole people's deposit, do we have anyone here who have not been able to get their money out of these banks?

Yup you're right, this is definitely a very silly question. I invested 165,000 naira in 2006 and that same amount is worth less than 20,000 naira today thanks to the financial wizardry of Erastus Akingbola. And he ended up with multiple mansions in VI/Ikoyi and the bank business in which he sweet-talked me to invest ran up huge debts and losses.

Go figure!

Gidtruth:

Yup you're right, this is definitely a very silly question. I invested 165,000 naira in 2006 and that same amount is worth less than 20,000 naira today thanks to the financial wizardry of Erastus Akingbola. And he ended up with multiple mansions in VI/Ikoyi and the bank business in which he sweet-talked me to invest ran up huge debts and losses.

Go figure!

Investors worldwide have lost money due to falling markets - it has not been conclusively established that corruption/looting led to your losses. No one sweet talked you into anything - the prospectus would have indicated that you stood a chance of losing money as well as making money. The final decision to take the plunge was yours.

There is an element of risk in investments and that can never be eliminated even is a Mother Theresa herself was in charge of the investments.

^^
Rubbish. Akingbola's recklessness contributed to the worthlessness of his bank. Blaming it all on 'failing markets' is because of your religious sentiments is disgusting. There are banks run by efficient managers who havent plunged to such a dangerous low as intercontinental maybe those banks where operating in a different ''market''. Shior

Tudór:

^^
Rubbish. Akingbola's recklessness contributed to the worthlessness of his bank. Blaming it all on 'failing markets' is because of your religious sentiments is disgusting. There are banks run by efficient managers who havent plunged to such a dangerous low as intercontinental maybe those banks where operating in a different ''market''. Shior

Do you understand English?

I said it has not been proven that corruption is the cause of the fall in value of his investment. How have I brought sentiments into this?

I don't know which 'efficient' banks you are talking about, but if such a bank is on the Nigerian Stock Exchange, the value of such an investment is much lower than the peak in 2008. So unless all the banks have been corrupt, the rapid decline in the financial markets is the dominant cause of the reduction in value of investments.

This is all too funny a thread
For al Daddy GO/RCCG defenders, how many of you will hear over the radio that a teaspoonful of contaminant was feared (not confirmed) added to Iju water works reservoir and investigation and water analysis experts have being called to ascertain the type and level of contamination, quantity if any in the public water supply.

Now how many of you will take more water from tap to drink or even to bathe or wash plates? how many of you will not empty all the water you have in the refrigerator or stored in kegs or drums?

How many will continue to drink the water while waiting for the results of the water analysis?
How many will continue to feel confident and walk with swagger in an all-white robe with a red blot on the chest?

That is the principle and philosophy that is lost on many bread and butter Xtians who have posted in this thread. They find it difficult to imagine letting go of money simply b'cos it has exchanged hands.

It is really unfortunate some have suggested that the church wait for a conviction in the Akingbola circumstances before taking a bold step. In other climes merely accusing a goverment official of impropriety is enough to make him resign while investigations are on-going, but in Nigera they will even rent a crowd to protest their immenet dismissal (Iwu). It is a cultural problem and it seems membership of a church has woefully failed to transform our character