Katsumoto:

This corruption is everywhere argument is tiring.
1. How many nations have spent the same levels of funds on their power sector with nothing to show for it?
2. How many nations have defunct National air carrier
3. How many nations have senators earning $1.2 milliona annually in salary
4. How many nations have an Ajaokuta steel complex
5. How many nations have 4 non-functioning refineries
6. How many nations have crude oil but still import petrol and diesel
7. How many nations have all its parastatals dead?

I could go on and on but I am sure some get the point. How many nations have all these items and more?

There is a difference between taking 5% cut for recommending a particular contract and stealing the entire $500 million meant to tar a road or provide healthcare, etc.

You have proved your point.  

But what allows Nigerian politicians the ability to do this?

The Nigerian state is not beholden to the people, because it does not get its legitimacy from the people. Its ability to gain revenue from oil instead of taxes is one major reason. That is why I say OIL is the reason for Nigeria's ills. This over-reliance is quite sickening. We are the perfect example of a nation suffering from a resource curse.

Remove corruption from our system and 90% of the issue is solved.

We spent $16b on Power and got darkness. Only in PDP, Only in Nigeria

Katsumoto:

If you develop a system of jailing or killing corrupt public officials and seizing all their assets including those abroad, then you will get at the root of the problem. Do you know what you will do in the fight against corruption if you not only jail IBB, OBJ, Anenih, etc but also seize their entire assets? You are sending a clear message that you may loot but your end will be wretched. The worst fear of a rich man is to become poor. If Nigeria signs agreements with most foreign nations, then it can also seize assets abroad and ensure that they are returned to the country should they run.

A sincere Nigerian president can do all these.

the catch is where will you find such a person in our midst?secondly do nigerians as individuals really believe in the system so as fight corruption amongst themselves for the greater good for the country?

dayokanu:

Remove corruption from our system and 90% of the issue is solved.

We spent $16b on Power and got darkness. Only in PDP, Only in Nigeria

really stop this rheoteric or do you want to tell me that there was no corruption before 1999?

eku_bear:

There are entire muncipalites across the US whose primary source of income is speeding tickets. Like, you'll have this amazing long and straight highway, very little traffic on it. They'll set the speed limit on it to 65 or 55.

Obviously, nobody wants to drive for 55 or 65 on a highway that can comfortably and safely take 80 mph.

So these towns just flag down people they catch driving above the speed limit (which is going to be a lot) and write them huge tickets.

I remember one time I was driving from Colorado to Houston, I paid a $550 ticket for speeding.

Now, technically I broke the law by doing what I did. But at the same time, we all know what is going on. . . that check I mailed for $550 is how they feed their town. So they have a huge incentive to make the speed limit in their municipality really low.

Now, how does this differ from a Nigerian policeman stopping people for bribe?  

Who knows, maybe I'm out of line, but to me they seem the same sort of thing.

THEY SET THE RULE BUT YOU BROKE IT BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO ACCELERATE.

And, you are comparing this with Roadblocks, abi? These guys are far away, i said so.

violent:


Verily Verily i say onto thee, it is easier for a 10 camels to go through the eye of a needle at once than to curb corruption in Nigeria.

If you ask the average Nigerian kid what he wants to be in the future, you'd be alarmed with the number of people who'd reply with the generic "i want to be a rich man". . . .they simply don't want to care how!. . . the same mentality is common even up till the tertiary level, no one cares about improving the world, everyone just want to be rich.

The only reason corruption thrives is because of the widening gap between the rich and the poor class of the society, we need to save the middle class!

@ bolded lol.

@ topic
Actually, what we call corruption may not be what it actually is. What I mean is, people just prefer favoritism or as the oyibo people call it nepotism. If you are in a very good position to help the people close to you, would you not? If your uncle is the MD of Shell in Nigeria and you need a job, would he not fix up? Is that corruption?
Bribery is encouraged by a strong centered government. We need to handle our business our own way. What you call "eguje" may be cool in other parts of Nigeria. We need to decentralise the government, resources and Security.
The reasons are :

1) Government: If the government is decentralised, the power these cabals have would be greatly reduced so as the access to money. The would reduce their influence greatly although  they would still have some n their regions and since its the people that elected them (not over-lorded on them like in present Nigeria), they can be removed or punished by these same electorates
2) Resources: If regions control their incomes and revenue then how would their leaders be more corrupt than what we have in Nigeria. What I mean is, take for example ND, if the regional leader of ND is corrupt and does not develop his environment, would it not affect him. Another argument is, if a yoruba, hausa or igbo man does have access to the oil in ND, he would not care for the people of ND thus being "more" corrupt than he needs to be.
3) Security: different groups have various ways of castigating their corrupt leaders. What might be a good way of punishment to you might be seen as an ethnic punishment or a wrong way of doing things by me.

All in all, a good way to tackle corruption is a combination of these 3 factors.MO.

ps: I might have made some typos so bear with me.

asha 80:

the catch is where will you find such a person in our midst?secondly do nigerians as individuals really believe in the system so as fight corruption amongst themselves for the greater good for the country?

I believe Buharui can do it. His stint at a Military President was way different from other Military rulers.

At that time all corrupt politicians were jailed, even people started behaving more responsibly

Kalu Akanu:

You have proved your point.  

But what allows Nigerian politicians the ability to do this?

The Nigerian state is not beholden to the people, because it does not get its legitimacy from the people. Its ability to gain revenue from oil instead of taxes is one major reason. That is why I say OIL is the reason for Nigeria's ills. This over-reliance is quite sickening. We are the perfect example of a nation suffering from a resource curse.

The lack of a functioning deterrent system permits not only the politicians but also the people to be corrupt. It is easier and better to discourage people from committing a crime than to catch them.

Katsumoto:

Seriously, at what point in your life did you live in Nigeria?

What allure is there for a 21 year to sleep with an old baboon if not to share his ill-gotten wealth?

Of what relevance is this when it happens everywhere in the world? Name a country on earth where old rich guys don't sleep with younger women.

And how again is this an example of corruption? Women exchanging sex for money (either explicitly or implicitly) is as old as humanity.

dayokanu:

I believe Buharui can do it. His stint at a Military President was way different from other Military rulers.

At that time all corrupt politicians were jailed, even people started behaving more responsibly

We have to be honest with ourselves here. Buhari or GJ cannot do IT! it's the system that supports corruption and that system of doing things needs to be changed.

asha 80:

really stop this rheoteric or do you want to tell me that there was no corruption before 1999?

Nigeria was arguably better in terms of average standard and quality of living before 1999!. . .those days, Nigerians were disciplined

Dede1: Nigeria number one problem is tribalism and sectional differences both mentally and spiritually. Disintegration of Nigeria will usher new approach to politics and create healthy competition as well as mutual respect among new countries.

[size=18pt]The problem with Nigeria is mostly to do with regions. [/size]

Tribalism is a colonial construct. The Igbos were never one people and neither were the Yorubas.
What hitherto existed were loosely affiliated Polities through language.

The rivalry and competing element between the regions stems from our colonial setup (please do your historical research).

There is north and south period. What we call tribalism and religion just compounds the issue. For instance, thats why
the more progressive southern muslims are not clamouring for the implentation of Sharia law in the south.

Nigeria is already logically split. There is a massive difference between that which exists (reality); and the way things ought to be.

asha 80:

the catch is where will you find such a person in our midst?secondly do nigerians as individuals really believe in the system so as fight corruption amongst themselves for the greater good for the country?

Nigerians will believe in the system when those at the top are cooling off in 'college'. We saw a sample of this with WAI in Idiagbon's time. Unruly Nigerians started to queue every; bus stops, banks, etc

eku_bear:

There are entire muncipalites across the US whose primary source of income is speeding tickets. Like, you'll have this amazing long and straight highway, very little traffic on it. They'll set the speed limit on it to 65 or 55.

Obviously, nobody wants to drive for 55 or 65 on a highway that can comfortably and safely take 80 mph.

So these towns just flag down people they catch driving above the speed limit (which is going to be a lot) and write them huge tickets.

I remember one time I was driving from Colorado to Houston, I paid a $550 ticket for speeding.

Now, technically I broke the law by doing what I did. But at the same time, we all know what is going on. . . that check I mailed for $550 is how they feed their town. So they have a huge incentive to make the speed limit in their municipality really low.

Now, how does this differ from a Nigerian policeman stopping people for bribe?  

Who knows, maybe I'm out of line, but to me they seem the same sort of thing.

are you for real

Katsumoto:

The lack of a functioning deterrent system permits not only the politicians but also the people to be corrupt. It is easier and better to discourage people from committing a crime than to catch them.

I agree with you on this point. The deterrent system is definitely needed in Nigeria. However, I still blame oil as the problem. The easy oil money that flows into this nation's coffers is simply a curse in my eyes.

eku_bear:

Of what relevance is this when it happens everywhere in the world? Name a country on earth where old rich guys don't sleep with younger women.

And how again is this an example of corruption? Women exchanging sex for money (either explicitly or implicitly) is as old as humanity.

Just answer this.

ola olabiy:

And, do they do this too before being admitted to study at uni/college or in order to pass exams?

Kalu Akanu:

I agree with you on this point. The deterrent system is definitely needed in Nigeria. However, I still blame oil as the problem. The easy oil money that flows into this nation's coffers is simply a curse in my eyes.

You are right. OIL has made Nigerians lazy! People do not want to work anymore, all they want is to get rich QUICKLY. This has contributed to the way people see corruption as a good habit. According to Nigerian policemen, " MAN MUST CHOP NOW"!

jason123:

We have to be honest with ourselves here. Buhari or GJ cannot do IT! it's the system that supports corruption and that system of doing things needs to be changed.

So how can the system be changed? How did people who used to be rowdy at busstop in October 1983 suddenly knew they had to queue up in February 1985?

How did a man who saw nothing bad in Literring his environment in November 1983 suddenly knew it wasnt right for him to liter the whole place 4 months later.

A president like Buhari would do this, Not GEJ whose friends are the gathering of most corrupt in Nigeria history.

His Campaign manager in the SS: Tony Anenih has been getting the contract for Benin-Ore road for how many yrs without doing nada?

ola olabiy:

THEY SET THE RULE BUT YOU BROKE IT BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO ACCELERATE.

And, you are comparing this with Roadblocks, abi? These guiys are far away, i said so.

Look, from my perspective, in both situations the authorities set up unjust laws (55 mph speed limit on a road that can easily take 80+; power to detain drivers on the silly pretext of looking for documentation X, Y, and Z, making sure not an armed robber, etc) to extract cash from commuters.

Both are government shakedowns for cash, are they not? Setup an unjust law to extract money. Yet one is viewed as OK, and the other an example of prime evil  

eku_bear:

Of what relevance is this when it happens everywhere in the world? Name a country on earth where old rich guys don't sleep with younger women.

And how again is this an example of corruption? Women exchanging sex for money (either explicitly or implicitly) is as old as humanity.

Yes some young girls will sleep with older men when they have nothing else going for them in other countries but in Nigeria, our bright generations are wasting away because most young girls in universities believe that the quickest way to riches is to sell your body.

Now tell me, on a Friday night in Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, Stanford, Manchester, etc, how many cars do you see on campus belonging to old men who have come to collect young girls for orgies, sex, or parties? If you can answer that question truthfully, then I will accept that it a normal thing for a bright undergraduate to be warming the bed of her grandfather's friend.

dayokanu:

So how can the system be changed? How did people who used to be rowdy at busstop in October 1983 suddenly knew they had to queue up in February 1985?

How did a man who saw nothing bad in Literring his environment in November 1983 suddenly knew it wasnt right for him to liter the whole place 4 months later.

A president like Buhari would do this, Not GEJ whose friends are the gathering of most corrupt in Nigeria history.

His Campaign manager in the SS: Tony Anenih has been getting the contract for Benin-Ore road for how many yrs without doing nada?

The mentality of the average nigerian has changed now compared to those days. Moreover, it was idiagbon that made those changes effective not Buhari.
Corruption cannot be totally removed but it can be reduced by true federalism.

people should stop this buhari propagaanda.that was a military regime where at a bark of an other you fall into line.the system of government now is different haba!

violent:

Nigeria was arguably better in terms of average standard and quality of living before 1999!. . .those days, Nigerians were disciplined

my guy let us stop this emotional argurement.corruption started eating deep into the fabrics of this country in the late 70's and continued progressively till date.when did felat start singing those his 'social conscouis' songs? na today?

as for the bolded i see that you just want to joke.even when chinue chebe wrote 'the problem with nigeria' in 1983 discipline was highlighted to be a major problem.

eku_bear:


Look, from my perspective, in both situations the authorities set up unjust laws (55 mph speed limit on a road that can easily take 80+; power to detain drivers on the silly pretext of looking for documentation X, Y, and Z, making sure not an armed robber, etc) to extract cash from commuters.

Both are government shakedowns for cash, are they not? Setup an unjust law to extract money. Yet one is viewed as OK, and the other an example of prime evil  

Eku, Eku! Haba!

With the way you reason, you don't understand Nigeria.
And, I am sure you can't survive a weekend at Beere, Ajegunle or Lalupon.

You need to go and experience life at a typical Nigerian setting not that Abuja where you are far away whenever you visit. Ok?

jason123:

The mentality of the average nigerian has changed now compared to those days. Moreover, it was idiagbon that made those changes effective not Buhari.
Corruption cannot be totally removed but it can be reduced by true federalism.

What do you think would happen when a president comes tries OBJ, Anenih, IBB, and those politicians at the top for corruption thereby handling them long jail terms.

You still think anyone would have the liver to take $16b from the nation coffers for Power project and not even clear the bush on the site?

asha 80:

people should stop this buhari propagaanda.that was a military regime where at a bark of an other you fall into line.the system of government now is different haba!

Thankfully OBJ, IBB and Buhari were all military leaders at some time, How come OBJ and IBB despite being military couldnt bark orders against corruption . Buhari has shown his hand as anti corruption and indiscipline.

The antecedents of OBJ, IBB, GEJ others can only tell us that its just business as usual. When you have OBJ and Anenih as your main backers

The stagnation of our development is hinged squarely on corruption. Corruption has eaten away at our institutions,check it, education,all levels of government and worst of all our moral values! I so disagree with then IMF man, these guys make their statements to achieve an objective,they are professionals.

How do we tackle this? I strongly agree with Katsumoto,lack of a effective deterrent to offenders. I mean look at China,if your caught,you are a dead man. Here in our land,the bigger money you steal the less the punishment.

Look at Cecilia Ibru and the rest,if this was in the US,everything related to her will be confiscated and all of them will be given long sentences. But today what are they paying for their crimes! They still get to keep part of the loot.

There are so many examples. What we need is a person like Buhari who will use an iron hand to deal with this cancer called corruption!

Katsumoto:

Yes some young girls will sleep with older men when they have nothing else going for them in other countries but in Nigeria, our bright generations are wasting away because most young girls in universities believe that the quickest way to riches is to sell your body.

Now tell me, on a Friday night in Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, Stanford, Manchester, etc, how many cars do you see on campus belonging to old men who have come to collect young girls for sin assemblies, sex, or parties? If you can answer that question truthfully, then I will accept that it a normal thing for a bright undergraduate to be warming the bed of her grandfather's friend.

Well, the Western world is far richer than Nigeria is. Typical family wealth/access to gainful employment of your Harvard, etc sort of girls is much higher than that of Nigeria. So the frequency of that sort of thing is much less at such schools than the ones in Nigeria.

With that said, I can definitively tell you that it does happen. Girls do work at strip clubs or as escorts, even ones who go to Ivy league schools (though as I said, the frequency is low.) And certainly at anything less than Ivy league schools, it happens a fair bit.

In any case, you've still not successfully argued how this is an example of corruption. Poverty yes, disparates in wealth, yes. Corruption, no.

dayokanu:

Thankfully OBJ, IBB and Buhari were all military leaders at some time, How come OBJ and IBB despite being military couldnt bark orders against corruption . Buhari has shown his hand as anti corruption and indiscipline.

The antecedents of OBJ, IBB, GEJ others can only tell us that its just business as usual. When you have OBJ and Anenih as your main backers

ok let us assume that buhari becomes the president for the next 8 yrs and curbs reduces corruption to the barest minimum.after he leeaves office what next?what is the gurauntee that the next person is going to continue from where he stopped?remember efcc under ribadu and efcc now under waziri?

the issue is that we have a system that encourages corruption.we need to set up strong systems not strong individuals.

A girl's personal choice to sleep with an older man is not and should not in any way be defined alongside with corruption, for sam's sake it's a séx between too consenting adults the fact that one is older does not and should not matter.  There aren't laws that prohibits adults from having sexual intercourse with each others, except in a religious state.

why are we even discussing this to begin with?

dayokanu:

What do you think would happen when a president comes tries OBJ, Anenih, IBB, and those politicians at the top for corruption thereby handling them long jail terms.

You still think anyone would have the liver to take $16b from the nation coffers for Power project and not even clear the bush on the site?

My brother, my opinion is that we as Nigerians are never truthful to ourselves. It's because we  would never support anyone that tries to persecute those politicians. The ethnic and religious sentiments would not allow us to do this. We need massive education programs that occurred in the old west to happen in Nigeria so that people can be aware. Most of these politicians, would just hire thugs if things do not go there way as we saw how Atiku did in the north a few days ago. For this reason, I support ACN.
@ your second paragraph,
No one has the liver but and no one will ever have the liver to do such except a disciplined military government but you have to agree that buhari has been given so much undeserved credit. Idiagbon was the one that made those drastic changes.
Right now, I have concluded that corruption cannot be removed totally, its impossible but measures can be taken to reduce it drastically by decentralising the power.

ola olabiy:

Eku, Eku! Haba!

With the way you reason, you don't understand Nigeria.
And, I am sure you can't survive a weekend at Beere, Ajegunle or Lalupon.

You need to go and experience life at a typical Nigerian setting not that Abuja where you are far away whenever you visit. Ok?

It is what it is. Government shakedown = government shakedown. If one is evil, then so is the other. I can tell you I'd prefer not to have written a large check to support some economically unviable town in the middle of nowhere.

asha 80:

ok let us assume that buhari becomes the president for the next 8 yrs and curbs reduces corruption to the barest minimum.after he leeaves office what next?what is the gurauntee that the next person is going to continue from where he stopped?remember efcc under ribadu and efcc now under waziri?

the issue is that we have a system that encourages corruption.we need to set up strong systems not strong individuals.

Exactly! The system supports and works in favour of corruption. It needs to be changed!