mlks_baby

I took your advice, and I learnt that the basic reason why God uses we to describe himself in the Quran is as expression of His Majesty. Think about it, a king decides something, but when he speaks to his people he says We decided. Similarly, God who is responsible for ordering the creation, is worthy of this Grandiose kind of language. If you feel otherwise, well goodluck to you.

You've left nothing more than another conjecture. The "We" and "Us" verses in reference to Allah in the Qur'an do not match what you're supposing they do. Unless you want to take the view that in matters of Creation, Prayer, and Worship, Allah is using those plural pronouns to speak of himself and others as having done the work of creation, and that people were to pray to, worship and serve whoever else Allah meant in those verses. If you're ignoring this fact in the Qur'an, I'd not be tedious to you about it.

All thanks, praises and glory do belong to the One God, Allah and His mercies upon all His Prophets and Messengers and that includes His last and seal of both, Muhammad ibn Abdallah (SAW). The 'We" and the 'Us" in Qur'an is what is called majestic plural. For a very clear every day example, if you interact with the Yorubas, just in case you are not, but you must at least be able to get to one and ask , there is an expression that goes; Awa la wanbe ki bolowo nnu. This means 'It is us in there, this does not anger the rich'. The Kings in Yoruba land do use plural to identify themselves in speech and other forms of communications. In the present royalties of Europe, the Royal family member, for example does practice that majestic or royal pronoun. The sematic language is very rich and God the Almighty had revealed Qur'an in the highest grade of this strand of languages. The Qur'anic dialect /language is Fusat. Even the Bedoin have to learn it. There can never be contradiction in Qur'an. God had made it very easy in the hearts, to the ears and on the tongues of believers. He did not put the burden on mankind by revealing it in one shot or a short period of time. It took 23 years. There were no laws in the first 13 years while the community was small and weak in Makka. After the hearts have been immersed in belief, then the great migration to Madina. It is in Madina that laws were revealed which governs life from conception to the grave and revelations of the condition in grave and up to the day of judgement and the rewards thereof of good and evil. Good is not just work alone. Even it is not just coupled with belief. But good is true belief in God, then worship and obey all the laws as much as you can, in truth and then good work. Where ever you see the plural pronoun, you will see almost immediately and all the time Allah, the Almighty describing Himself or mentioning Himself by name.
It is in the same clarity that He the Lord of the Worlds, when He mention Jesus, He, the Lord of the Worlds will say, son of Mary. He the Lord of the Worlds describes Himself in many attributes, but never father. Further He described Himself to actually distinguish Himsef from all creations.

Olabaowale,
As you can see, it is needless to explain this. I have indeed tried but my word will not be taken for it, neither will yours, but I must thank you for reteirating the authentic Islamic view on that issue.

@ajia23,

An open forum is not the same as a Qur'anic school where people have to take 'your word for it.' You're not an authority in the Qur'an, neither is Olabowale. What you are applauding is what you think is the "Islamic view on that issue" rather than an unbiased understanding of the verses alluded to.

@olabowale,

Muslims often explain away the "We" and "Us" allusions to Allah as simply the "majestic plural", but I ask: plural of what and who? You could not suppose that when God creates, He would share that glory with others by saying "We created". By explaining these verses away by analogies to the Yoruba culture and European royalties, you're clearly suggesting that there's no difference between the glory of Allah and that of humans. And then you conveniently come back to say that "the Lord of the Worlds. . . described Himself to actually distinguish Himself from all creation." This is as convoluted as is often the case in explaining the "majestic plural", because if Allah can distinguish Himself from all creation, how is it then that He would embrace other created beings in his assertions of "We created"? That kind of statement does not distinguish him from the created beings in the least.

Second, you're failing to see a very fundamental aspect of the question. When the Qur'an acknowledged the Law of Moses, the Psalms of David, and the Gospel, they were already complete and in circulation no less than 500 years before Muhammad brought Islam. Those Gospels speak of God as Father, and called Jesus the Son - and they have always been like that before the Qur'an existed. Furthermore, in the Psalms of David, the Messiah is clearly called "the Son" (of God) - Psalm 2:12.

My question to you is, what texts have you been reading that you're asserting that God never described Himself as Father? Before the Qur'an was written, the Bible referenced God as Father both in the Old Testament and the Gospels; and Jesus was always known as the Son. Did the Qur'an not see these things in the Gospels and the Psalms before endorsing it more than 500 years later? When it became apparent that it cannot sustain what it does not believe, the accusations came that the Bible has been corrupted. It does not help to just preach Islam here until you read the Bible that the Qur'an applauded and see that your arguments or explanations have simply ignored the facts of what you have not read.

The Qur'an endorsed the Gospels - and these Gospels referred to God as "Father" and to Jesus the Messiah as "the Son of God." You may disagree strongly because of your love for the Qur'an, but that is simply ignoring the facts of what the Bible has always taught and which the Qur'an conveniently hides from Muslims.

The Qur'an endorsed the Gospels - and these Gospels referred to God as "Father" and to Jesus the Messiah as "the Son of God." You may disagree strongly because of your love for the Qur'an, but that is simply ignoring the facts of what the Bible has always taught and which the Qur'an conveniently hides from Muslims.

What facts are we talking about?

Considering that both the Qur'an and the Bible are nothing more than collections of fables, folklore and fairy stories, does it really matter who hides what from each other and what bits are changed around?

Both the stories in the Qur'an and the Bible have been re-written thosands of times over the years by thousands of different people with their own agendas! None of them bear any relation to facts.

If I told you the story of Little Red Riding Hood but changed the end so that instead of the woodcutter killing the wolf, it instead ate little Red Riding Hood! It is still a good story and good to listen to 

What amuses me the most is that both Muslims and Christians alike can surely see that both books are utter nonsense and filled from beginning to end with thousands of contradictions and irregularities, but they spend their time trying to explain away the flaws, wriggling and writhing their way through this nonsense, trying to give it a meaning!

Oh well, maybe you should all give it a rest for the World Cup

We've been through your own version of nonsense many times before - and it still does not work. Find another nonsense besides the Little Red Riding Hood to placate your kinky church: they'll applaud that more than the Bible or the Qur'an that have continued to perplex you.

mlks_baby:

We've been through your own version of nonsense many times before - and it still does not work. Find another nonsense besides the Little Red Riding Hood to placate your kinky church: they'll applaud that more than the Bible or the Qur'an that have continued to perplex you.

Yes, you are absolutely right, we have been through this nonsense before, I mean the Bible and the Qur'an of course.

Maybe you missed the fact that I did find another nonsense other than Little Red Riding Hood!

The Bible and the Qur'an

Maybe you should also. I would recommend that you first try the Grimm Brothers or Hans Christian Anderson to start. The stories are far better and Just as believable than any you may find in the Bible or the Qur'an 

Keep crying - it's Sunday. The nonsense you're losing sleep over will continue to perplex you.

mlks_baby:

Keep crying - it's Sunday. The nonsense you're losing sleep over will continue to perplex you.

I am not loosing sleep over anything or crying. It may be Sunday, but I have no choice but other than to be up and active as I have kids and they make the rules when I awake

Aha, people need to know what they are writing or saying.

Well, thanks to Islamism, we now have new courses of study and steady cash flowing in to our pockets due to issues in conflict resolution. So enjoy the ride while it lasts.