Nairalands Beneli talks about mental health in his new Podcast series; Case Files of a London Psychiatrist.

Listen to the introductory episode on his IG page @london_psychiatrist, where he talks about why he became a Psychiatrist.

It promises to be very educational and entertaining...

@ OP, this your preoccupation with Abia State is now bordering on the edge of being psychotic! You nor get anything useful to do with your time?

As a concerned netizen of Nairaland, I urge you to go and get professional help. There is no way on earth all your marbles are intact!

Na wa o!

zacn01:
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I think we can all agree that Nigerians are among the best athletes in the world. Athletes who have links to Nigeria compete for countries such as Qatar (Femi Ogunode), Bahrain (Kemi Adejoya), Norway (Ezinne Okparaebo), Italy (Ayorinde Folorunso), USA (Barbara Nwaba). On the relatively small archipelago of Britain there are quite a lot of athletes with Nigerian links who have competed for the U.K in recent times such as James Dasaolu, Tiffany Porter and C.J. Ujah.

In this article I have compiled some facts about some young, talented, under the age of 17 athletes with Nigerian links who are names to watch out for in the near future.

GRAIG ANYA-JOSEPH
With a personal best of 10.94 at the age of 13, Graig is one of the more prolific sprinters on this list. His time, recorded at the England U15 Championships in Bedford, UK, was the quickest time recorded in the competition and in the UK in 2017 for 13-14 year olds, sadly 0.04 outside the world age record of 10.90. He has won the South of England Indoor Championships in a blistering time of 7.16 seconds over 60m, to follow that up with a UK lead of 7.08 at the Essex Championships. He is definitely one to watch this season, and I will keep you updated.

ZACHARY NWOGWUGWU
While Graig keeps a tight hold on the proceedings in the East of England and Essex, Zachary has been tearing up the South East of England – Kent. Specifically Kent, as that is where he has completed an indoor and outdoor title win over both 60m and 100m, and in the latter recording a time of 11.39, which was the quickest time in the whole UK that day. 60m was also a place where he excelled, achieving the 2nd quickest time overall at the England U15 Indoor Championships. At 13 years he ran a 60m time of 7.36 which put him 9th in the UK for 14 year olds when he was a year younger than the rest of the competition! It also made him the 6th quickest 13 year old Britain has ever seen over 60 metres.
Updates on how his season goes will follow soon enough. You can also follow Zachary on his instagram handle @zacn01 for video recordings of his races. He will also be providing updates here on Nairaland.


REMI JOKOSENUMI
The quickest 13 year old over 200m in the country in 2017 rounds off our top three sprinters. With a personal best of 11.46 in 100m and 22.51 over 200m, Remi is easily the quickest sprinter in London by a mile. He has recently completed an indoor double over 60m and 200m where he fended off strong competition in both to assert his dominance in the indoor national competition. His season will be followed, stay tuned.


JOSHUA OGUNFOLAJU
We switch over to the field to view another great talent. Josh Ogunfolaju has recently won the Essex County Championships in his favoured event of triple jump, having jumped 13.44m, a leap that is the 18th best ever recorded for age 14 in the UK, in only his 2nd outdoor competition of the year. He is currently ranked amongst adults in the triple jump, #76 in the UK at his young age. He also is better than most U17s at triple jump – would be ranked 5th amongst 15-16 year olds. A talent to watch, his progress will be updated.

DOMINIC OGBECHIE
A little bit older than the rest of our athletes – however this just means the promise is more defined. With sprint PBs of 10.86 and 21.52 you would think this was another Nigerian sprint talent – however Dominic finds his feet in the field events, noticeably high jump and long jump. Dom broke the age 15 world record in high jump with a leap of 2.22m at the England U17 Championships whilst also breaking the British U17 long jump record with a jump of 7.53m. He already competes regularly for England and it is not known whether he will make the switch and compete for his home country of Nigeria.


Zachary writes from the U.K where he is a student at one of the Eton Group of Independent Schools. Videos will follow in subsequent updates.

How's the athletics season gone so far for you and the others, Zac - I'm aware that Craig, Remi and Dominic have broken some records recently. Why not update us on them?

Also well done on your new project on instagram #tracktalents19.

To have close to 2k followers in less than a week is quite impressive!

zacn01:
----
I think we can all agree that Nigerians are among the best athletes in the world. Athletes who have links to Nigeria compete for countries such as Qatar (Femi Ogunode), Bahrain (Kemi Adejoya), Norway (Ezinne Okparaebo), Italy (Ayorinde Folorunso), USA (Barbara Nwaba). On the relatively small archipelago of Britain there are quite a lot of athletes with Nigerian links who have competed for the U.K in recent times such as James Dasaolu, Tiffany Porter and C.J. Ujah.

In this article I have compiled some facts about some young, talented, under the age of 17 athletes with Nigerian links who are names to watch out for in the near future.

GRAIG ANYA-JOSEPH
With a personal best of 10.94 at the age of 13, Graig is one of the more prolific sprinters on this list. His time, recorded at the England U15 Championships in Bedford, UK, was the quickest time recorded in the competition and in the UK in 2017 for 13-14 year olds, sadly 0.04 outside the world age record of 10.90. He has won the South of England Indoor Championships in a blistering time of 7.16 seconds over 60m, to follow that up with a UK lead of 7.08 at the Essex Championships. He is definitely one to watch this season, and I will keep you updated.

ZACHARY NWOGWUGWU
While Graig keeps a tight hold on the proceedings in the East of England and Essex, Zachary has been tearing up the South East of England – Kent. Specifically Kent, as that is where he has completed an indoor and outdoor title win over both 60m and 100m, and in the latter recording a time of 11.39, which was the quickest time in the whole UK that day. 60m was also a place where he excelled, achieving the 2nd quickest time overall at the England U15 Indoor Championships. At 13 years he ran a 60m time of 7.36 which put him 9th in the UK for 14 year olds when he was a year younger than the rest of the competition! It also made him the 6th quickest 13 year old Britain has ever seen over 60 metres.
Updates on how his season goes will follow soon enough. You can also follow Zachary on his instagram handle @zacn01 for video recordings of his races. He will also be providing updates here on Nairaland.


REMI JOKOSENUMI
The quickest 13 year old over 200m in the country in 2017 rounds off our top three sprinters. With a personal best of 11.46 in 100m and 22.51 over 200m, Remi is easily the quickest sprinter in London by a mile. He has recently completed an indoor double over 60m and 200m where he fended off strong competition in both to assert his dominance in the indoor national competition. His season will be followed, stay tuned.


JOSHUA OGUNFOLAJU
We switch over to the field to view another great talent. Josh Ogunfolaju has recently won the Essex County Championships in his favoured event of triple jump, having jumped 13.44m, a leap that is the 18th best ever recorded for age 14 in the UK, in only his 2nd outdoor competition of the year. He is currently ranked amongst adults in the triple jump, #76 in the UK at his young age. He also is better than most U17s at triple jump – would be ranked 5th amongst 15-16 year olds. A talent to watch, his progress will be updated.

DOMINIC OGBECHIE
A little bit older than the rest of our athletes – however this just means the promise is more defined. With sprint PBs of 10.86 and 21.52 you would think this was another Nigerian sprint talent – however Dominic finds his feet in the field events, noticeably high jump and long jump. Dom broke the age 15 world record in high jump with a leap of 2.22m at the England U17 Championships whilst also breaking the British U17 long jump record with a jump of 7.53m. He already competes regularly for England and it is not known whether he will make the switch and compete for his home country of Nigeria.


Zachary writes from the U.K where he is a student at one of the Eton Group of Independent Schools. Videos will follow in subsequent updates.

I have watched the races you posted on your instagram page and can see that you're clearly a talented young man. Keep it up! I have a few questions for you though.

1. I notice that in addition to the U.K and Nigeria flags you also have the flags of U.S.A and Trinidad & Tobago on your profile. Do you have connections with those countries as well?

2. Do you see yourself actually competing for Nigeria one day, if you were to continue with athletics?

3. There's the general belief that foreign born athletes with Nigeria connections only remember Nigeria once they've not been able to make the teams of their countries of birth. What is your views about that observation?

zacn01:

----
I think we can all agree that Nigerians are among the best athletes in the world. Athletes who have links to Nigeria compete for countries such as Qatar (Femi Ogunode), Bahrain (Kemi Adejoya), Norway (Ezinne Okparaebo), Italy (Ayorinde Folorunso), USA (Barbara Nwaba). On the relatively small archipelago of Britain there are quite a lot of athletes with Nigerian links who have competed for the U.K in recent times such as James Dasaolu, Tiffany Porter and C.J. Ujah.

In this article I have compiled some facts about some young, talented, under the age of 17 athletes with Nigerian links who are names to watch out for in the near future.

GRAIG ANYA-JOSEPH
With a personal best of 10.94 at the age of 13, Graig is one of the more prolific sprinters on this list. His time, recorded at the England U15 Championships in Bedford, UK, was the quickest time recorded in the competition and in the UK in 2017 for 13-14 year olds, sadly 0.04 outside the world age record of 10.90. He has won the South of England Indoor Championships in a blistering time of 7.16 seconds over 60m, to follow that up with a UK lead of 7.08 at the Essex Championships. He is definitely one to watch this season, and I will keep you updated.

ZACHARY NWOGWUGWU
While Graig keeps a tight hold on the proceedings in the East of England and Essex, Zachary has been tearing up the South East of England – Kent. Specifically Kent, as that is where he has completed an indoor and outdoor title win over both 60m and 100m, and in the latter recording a time of 11.39, which was the quickest time in the whole UK that day. 60m was also a place where he excelled, achieving the 2nd quickest time overall at the England U15 Indoor Championships. At 13 years he ran a 60m time of 7.36 which put him 9th in the UK for 14 year olds when he was a year younger than the rest of the competition! It also made him the 6th quickest 13 year old Britain has ever seen over 60 metres.
Updates on how his season goes will follow soon enough. You can also follow Zachary on his instagram handle @zacn01 for video recordings of his races. He will also be providing updates here on Nairaland.


REMI JOKOSENUMI
The quickest 13 year old over 200m in the country in 2017 rounds off our top three sprinters. With a personal best of 11.46 in 100m and 22.51 over 200m, Remi is easily the quickest sprinter in London by a mile. He has recently completed an indoor double over 60m and 200m where he fended off strong competition in both to assert his dominance in the indoor national competition. His season will be followed, stay tuned.


JOSHUA OGUNFOLAJU
We switch over to the field to view another great talent. Josh Ogunfolaju has recently won the Essex County Championships in his favoured event of triple jump, having jumped 13.44m, a leap that is the 18th best ever recorded for age 14 in the UK, in only his 2nd outdoor competition of the year. He is currently ranked amongst adults in the triple jump, #76 in the UK at his young age. He also is better than most U17s at triple jump – would be ranked 5th amongst 15-16 year olds. A talent to watch, his progress will be updated.

DOMINIC OGBECHIE
A little bit older than the rest of our athletes – however this just means the promise is more defined. With sprint PBs of 10.86 and 21.52 you would think this was another Nigerian sprint talent – however Dominic finds his feet in the field events, noticeably high jump and long jump. Dom broke the age 15 world record in high jump with a leap of 2.22m at the England U17 Championships whilst also breaking the British U17 long jump record with a jump of 7.53m. He already competes regularly for England and it is not known whether he will make the switch and compete for his home country of Nigeria.


Zachary writes from the U.K where he is a student at one of the Eton Group of Independent Schools.

Excellent stuff!

Admin, @Mynd44 etc, let's encourage this young Nairalander and send his article to the front page!!

Though several international conventions reaffirm the right to self-determination, they also pledge to uphold the “principle of territorial integrity” – the right of existing states to prevent regions form seceding. “International law grows by practice,” says Thomas Grant, a senior fellow and legal scholar at the United States Institute of Peace (USIP), an independent institution established and funded by the U.S. Congress that tries to resolve international conflicts. “The legal situation adapts itself to the factual situation”.

Consequently, the international community’s response to de facto separatist states varies widely. For example, most of the world refuses to deal with the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, which has been punished with an economic embargo since 1973, when Turkish troops invaded Cyprus and permanently occupied the north, creating a Turkish-dominated de facto state there. Somaliland – which established a de facto state in northwestern Somalia in 1991 after the government in Mogadishu collapsed – has been largely ignored by the world community despite being a relative beacon of stability in the otherwise unstable horn of Africa. […]

Meanwhile, the island nation of Taiwan, off the coast of mainland China, is accepted as a global trading partner – the United States alone has 140 trade agreements with the Taiwanese – but not as an independent country. Few countries are willing to challenge Beijing’s “one-China” policy, which denies any province the right to secede and sees Taiwan as its 23rd province […]

Marino Busdachin – general secretary of the Hague-based Unrepresented nations and Peoples Organization (UNPO), which represents 70 nonviolent movements pushing for self-determination – rails against the U.N. for not upholding that right. “Self-determination exists on papers only. It is a trap,” he says. “We cannot apply to anyone for it. The U.N. member states block us.” Moreover, he say, seeking self-determination should not be confused with demanding the right to secede. “Ninety percent of our members are not looking for independence,” he says. […]

Fixing Fragile States author [Seth] Kaplan believes separatism makes sense in a few cases, such as Kosovo and Somaliland. “But, generally, the international community is right to initially oppose separatism,” he says.

So when should a group have the right to secede? “When you are deprived of the right to participate in government, and there are serious violations of human rights, such as genocide,” says the USIP’s Grant. […]

[Günter] Dauwen points out that the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has condemned countries for not respecting the rights of ethnic minorities, but the EU doesn’t force its members to comply with those rulings. […]

Busdachin of the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization says the EU “is helping to resolve separatist conflicts in many cases because it has the most advanced regime for protecting minorities.” For example, the EU has consistently pressured Turkey, which wants to join the union, to grant the Kurds the right to express their language and culture more freely. Such a move would quell some Kurds’ desire for full independence, he says, adding that he would like to see ASEAN, MERCOSUR and other regional organizations follow the EU model. […]

But independence does not always mean war. With a broadly homogenous population, its own currency, flag, army, government and airline, Somaliland is an example of how a people can effectively secede without causing chaos and violence. Somaliland’s isolation from the international community has not hindered its development – indeed it has helped, argues author Kaplan.

“The death of external involvement has kept foreign interference to a minimum while spurring self-reliance and self-belief,” he says. […]

In some cases – notably Quebec, Flanders, Wales and Scotland – separatist movements have not boiled over into violent conflict. In each, the central government granted some self-rule to the separatist region, preventing the situation from turning violent. In addition, the moments were able to argue their cases through elected political representatives in a functioning democratic system, which also reduces the likelihood of violence.
http://www.unpo.org/article/8023


Salient points from the article:

1. You have the right to secede as a group, “when you are deprived of the right to participate in government, and there are serious violations of human rights, such as genocide,”

2. The international community’s response to de facto separatist states varies widely. Most separatist regions are largely ignored like Somaliland – which established a de facto state in north-western Somalia in 1991 after the government in Mogadishu collapsed – despite being a relative beacon of stability in the otherwise unstable horn of Africa.

3. Self-determination, to a very large extent, exists only on paper.

4. In some cases – notably Quebec, Flanders, Wales and Scotland – separatist movements have not boiled over into violent conflict. In each, the central government granted some self-rule to the separatist region, preventing the situation from turning violent. In addition, the moments were able to argue their cases through elected political representatives in a functioning democratic system, which also reduces the likelihood of violence.


Take away message:

i) The International community is unlikely to support the breaking away of the Efik and other peoples of Bakassi to form a separate nation from Nigeria and Cameroun.

ii) The international community is also not likely to support any of the nations of Nigeria to go their separate ways peacefully.

iii) The international community will continue to support (either openly or covertly) whichever government in power that promises to uphold the ‘principle of territorial integrity’ or is assessed to be most able to continue doing so if there were to be increased political crises and social upheavals. This is in spite of the content of Article 1 (1) of the UN’s International Covenant on Economic, Cultural and Social rights that talks about each people’s rights to self-determination. So Goodluck Nigeria 2015 and beyond.

ayurdavid: Hi Dr beneli, i read ur post on ‘ur resident shrink‘ & i like it. Pls kindly refer me to a good doctor that can treat clinical depression. Thanks.

I think you should find a 'good' doctor at your nearest teaching hospital.

All the best

bisiswag: @Beneli. U are so God sent. Followed ur posts on medical doctors,lets know you. Pls pls n pls am just abt finishing my housejob n i really want to write primaries in psychiatry,pls where are the best centers to train in nigeria plus can i get materials from you or anyone u could direct me to. Thanks so much

My apologies for the late response.

1. Where are the best centers to train in nigeria?

I have responded to your post in the medical doctors forum. I am afraid I can't really say much when it comes to residency programmes in Nigeria.


2. Can i get materials from you or anyone u could direct me to

What kind of materials did you have in mind?


All the best . . .

ficoram: Good day,Beneli.
it's being a while I saw your post on this forum.
pls I ll like to make some enquiries.I am a doctor presently about to finish my youth service in few months.I have been nursing the idea of traveling abroad-to any country where I can practice for some years,if possible get a resident programme.I ll love if you can provide me informations about potential countries i should be considering,and their requirements. Pls what do you think about Australia.?

Sorry for the delay in responding.

The good thing these days is that with the internet it's become a lot easier to access information quicker . . .

You could start by deciding on which part of the world you'd want to end up in. Clearly the place to go if you must emigrate to practice would be North America. But it's also the most difficult place to get into because every one wants to go there for residency! For North America, you'd have to go down the USMLE route - or the Canadian exams equivalent. These are expensive exams, so you'd need to be able to raise the money for it. What some people do is that they make the journey in stages. This brings us to issues of where next?

The Caribbean countries have their own licensing exams now. I understand that it's usually done in Jamaica. These exams are not as tough as the USMLE or the PLAB. To get more information you'd have to google something like - working in Barbados or something. You could also just walk into any of their embassies for more up to date information. I am aware that a lot of people have used the Caribbean countries as their springboards to the USA . . .

Australia and New Zealand also have jobs going. A lot of these are facilitated through locum agencies. Again you can google things like job opportunities for doctors in those countries where you'd get information on agencies. There seems to be quite a lot of them trying to recruit people to come 'down under'. You might be slightly disadvantaged if your training and experience has been only in Nigeria, but it's still possible to get recriuted. Contact any of the recruitment agencies and talk to them directly.

In Africa there are a few countries that may offer something reasonable. I know that South Africa has become a bit unfriendly towards Nigerian doctors but places like Botswana may have things going. Again you could go to their embassies for up to date information. There may also be opportunities in countries in West Africa that have just come out of war situations - Liberia, Sierra Leone. But these would only make sense if the jobs are through International Agencies. You could check what's on offer through the Unjobs site. Google unjobs . . .

In most of these places, the jobs that are easily available are non-training posts. They're usually there to meet service needs, so individuals will get posted to rural areas etc, where the locals of these countries refuse to go. People who decide to embark on such adventures do so with the view to using those countries as transit points to USA/Canada or the UK . . .

The bad thing with this easier access to information is that more people have become informed, so the competition is a lot stiffer . . !

All the best.

bisiswag: Lovly thread,pls guys does anyone have any idea how psychiatry residency is Primaries,getting residency placement and all. Thanks y'all.

1. Does anyone have any idea how psychiatry residency is?

I think it really depends on where you do the residency.

In the UK it's now a 6 year programme to be able to get the Certificate of Specialist Registration (this allows you to start competing for Consultant jobs). The first 3 - 4 years is for basic specialist training, during which time you’d be expected to pass all your membership exams and then become a Member of the Royal College of Psychiatrists. You may decide to stop at this stage and start working as a middle grade Psychiatrist. If you want to continue your residency you’ll then spend the next 2- 3 years doing higher specialist training. During this period you’d be expected to focus on the subspecialty of Psychiatry that you’re really interested in. This could include Child and Adolescent, General Adult, Forensic, Rehabilitation, Psychotherapy, Addiction etc.

In the USA and Canada the training is slightly different. You spend 3 years in generic training. Some people stop at this point and then start working as General Psychiatrists. Those that want to continue training, spend another 1 - 2 years in Fellowship (almost like the higher specialist training in the UK) after which they become ‘specialists’ in the subspecialty of Psychiatry they did their fellowship in.

2. I don't know what residency placements etc. is like in Nigeria, so I won't be able to answer the rest of your questions.

All the best. . .

guysparrow: @beneli
After passing part 1 plab in Lagos,can someone be giving a visa just for part 2 in UK. What other countries can a doctor with GMC practice apart from England/Uk. What are the average monthly pay for doctors in TT, Grenada, Barbados. I also hear they are some uni courses one can take for 6mths to 1yr in TT or other carribean nations and is equivalent to a US med. Licence. can one get automatic residency spot in SA after PLAB and what is their monthly pay. I will be glad if you can clear the air on these issues.Tks

1. After passing part 1 plab in Lagos, can someone be giving a visa just for part 2 in UK?

To the best of my knowledge the answer is ‘Yes’. Here is a link for your reference:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/guidance/ecg/vat/vat15/

2. What other countries can a doctor with GMC practice apart from England/UK?

It really depends on how much UK experience you have and also on your immigration status.
If you have Full GMC registration but have limited UK experience, your options are not that many. Unfortunately you’ll only be able to practice within the UK and the British Isles.

If however you have UK experience, then you could also get jobs in places like Australia, New Zealand and some southern African countries (possibly SA, Botswana etc.). Of course these jobs would be outside the major cities and would not be ‘training posts’. To get into training posts (residency programmes) you’d be expected to pass their respective licensing exams.

If you don’t have restrictions on your visa (i.e. you have a British passport) then you’d be able to also work in most countries within the European Economic Area. You may also be able to work in some regions in Canada if you’re a General Practitioner (Primary Care Physician). I am sure that you’re aware that a General Practitioner is a specialist who has completed his residency in General Practice.

3. What is the average monthly pay for doctors in TT, Grenada, Barbados?

I am not quite sure what their average pay is. I do know however that while a lot of people move from the Indian subcontinent and African countries to those regions, a lot of people there move to America and the UK, in search of greener pastures!

4. I also hear they are some uni courses one can take for 6mths to 1yr in TT or other Caribbean nations and is equivalent to a US med. Licence.

I am not aware of this. I doubt it to be true . . .

5. Can one get automatic residency spot in SA after PLAB and what is their monthly pay.

It is not likely that you can get an automatic residency spot in SA after PLAB. I am not aware that the UK and South Africa have that kind of relationship. Having full UK registration may make getting a residency spot in South Africa a lot more easier though.

I hope i've helped clear a bit of the air . . .!

Best regards.

Ogugua88,
Great contribution! I think that the way you have compressed the categories is very sound. I however agree with FACE that the Eze should not be denied his voting privileges but should in addition to his one vote also have 'a swing/deciding vote entitlement/privilege.'

ogugua88: Beneli,

That's a bit much, don't you think? That's six levels of membership.

What about simply 3.) Affiliateship, 2.) Individual membership, and 1.) Founding membership? I don't think so many ranks or titles are necessary.

Affiliateship can encompass all you said about it, plus student membership. If fees are required, and a student cannot make them, then he or she will be an affiliate without voting privileges. If he or she can pay the fees, then he or she is an individual member with voting privileges. Plain and simple.

The same can be said about organizational membership. I'm assuming that people can be members of ENYI as well as other groups? In this case, I would think someone who is already a member of another organization should start at the affiliate level before being allowed to apply for individual membership. There are other groups who may not have ENYI's best interests in mind, so I think it would be wise if the group gets to know someone from another organization before that someone can join.
Why would an entire organization need its own membership? At best, if their notions are in line with those of ENYI, they can be affiliate groups or allies with which ENYI works closely.

What's the point of honorary membership if it doesn't come with any privileges that an individual member already has? I think this one should be scrapped altogether. If there are people who deserve recognition for work they've done in the east, ENYI members can all put money together and award him or her with an actual plaque or something of that sort, and then invite him to be a member of ENYI.

In a nation where we have Chief Engineer Doctor Mister and Senator Professor Minister Lolo Mrs, we don't need too many titles. The fewer the better.

Here's my take alongside that of Beneli (my own are bolded):

i) Founding Membership - Eze OnlyTruth and council. This would probably also include other individuals that are here from the very beginning. It would be subject to Eze and council’s approval… Some of the Founding members have already started to contribute time and money, so probably may not have to pay a defined membership fee; however I suspect that a lot of them would be happy to donate when necessary, to help the organisation during its teething period. The Founding members will have voting privileges and their votes will be weighted equally to that of votes from individual members. The only exception is OnlyTruth, who cannot vote unless there is a tie. He will make a final decision after he's heard from all sides.

ii.) Individial Membership - Individuals from the nationalities that make up Eastern Nigeria. How they will become members will be circumstantial. Those who have displayed outstanding character in the East (taken from beneli's Honorary Membership idea) can become members through invitation from a Founding Member. As most people will become members through affiliateship, there should be a process, which includes application and a membership fee. How much the fee is, when it will be initiated, and what the fee covers are discussions for another time, but there should be a membership fee eventually. Individual members will have voting privileges.

iii.) Affiliateship - Open to all friends/allies of ENYI and its cause. They will include non-Easterners, who are invited or convey interest in ENYI, as well as other Easterners, such as students, members of other organizations, or those who can't or do not wish to make payments yet. No fees or voting privileges as an affiliate.

PointB: Beneli has offered interesting proposition of stratification of membership, while noting Afam's opposition to the idea of 'paying' membership, I'd like to asked Beneli to put some flesh on the strata of membership he proposed.

@Afam,
indeed every Igbo man and woman are enjoined to join the group. And if the group is going to remain online, and anonymous, there certainly will be no need to even suggest members should pay.

However, if and when the movement goes offline and set up physical structures and offices, certainly some cost will be involved - either voluntary donation or otherwise. Without funding, the reach and effectiveness of the movement will certainly be curtailed. Then again funding, either by dues or donations, demands accountability and transparency. This surely will be discuss and established before anyone will be asked to part with funds. However, let's not rule out the possibility that a time will come when members of ENYI will be asked to 'put their money where their mouth is.'. Nothing good comes easy!

This is just an evolving idea. Umu nna should help flesh it out a bit more . . .

So the categories could include the following:

i) Founding Membership – Eze OnlyTruth and council. This would probably also include other individuals that are here from the very beginning. It would be subject to Eze and council’s approval… Some of the Founding members have already started to contribute time and money, so probably may not have to pay a defined membership fee; however I suspect that a lot of them would be happy to donate when necessary, to help the organisation during its teething period. The Founding members will have voting privileges… We will have to quantify the weight of their votes. The latter is necessary in view of Afam’s anxieties about wealthy people coming in to project their own ideas, and also given the fact that as the Organisation grows, members will join who have contrary visions.

ii) Honorary Membership – membership bestowed on individuals of outstanding character in the Eastern states of Nigeria. This will be in line with our vision to celebrate positive role models… In the not too distant future it will be a thing of honour to want to associate with us! This should not attract a voting privilege; however an honourary member will be encouraged to become an Individual member with voting privileges…

iii) Individual Membership – Individuals from the nationalities that make up Eastern Nigeria. We will have to debate HOW individuals become members, whether by invitation or not. Individual members would have voting privileges.

iv) Organisational membership – this will be open to already existing organisations that share our vision. Given that during elections, local government areas are divided into wards etc part of our organisational strategy would be to encourage youths at local government levels to come in as grassroots organisations. These organisations will have voting privileges. We will have to quantify the weight of the organisational vote…

v) Student membership – open to all students… This will probably always be non-paying… It may also not have voting privileges; however a student may decide to upgrade to the ‘Individual Membership’ status.

vi) Affiliateship – our friends who may come from outside of the East. This will not attract any fees or voting privileges. It should be by invitation. This would include Individual and Organisational Affiliate memberships.

As i stated in the beginning, this is an idea in evolution. It still needs fine-tuning . . .

I think that being an organisation that hopes to reach the 'grassroots' and also work with students, some of whom are often very poor and hardly able to feed themselves!, there should, without doubt, be a category of membership that is non-paying. But because it is also a Voluntary Sector Organisation that will have to spend money for 'logistics' there's also need for 'paying' membership. It is indeed a fact of life that there will be some 'serious-minded' people with great ideas and motivation, who may not be able to afford any membership fees!



So, being mindful of the above scenarios, it would be reasonable to have different categories of membership, which are either paying or non-paying members, each with their own responsibilities/privileges etc. I therefore suggest the following categories of memberships:





i) Founding/Honorary Membership




ii) Individual Membership




iii) Organisational membership




iv) Student membership




v) Affiliateship

remark D: I think membership is going to be a tricky one because this is an online forum. But a way to get the serious from the non-serious might be charging a fee. This might have a downside as people gravitate more to free stuffs… What do you guys think of a membership fee? And how can we verify who people are? Would people be willing to give out their credit card numbers? Any perks that the membership fee can be used for? …

Oh I got another idea for knowing those serious about this… perhaps filling an application form and having each person say why they want to become a member and ways they could possibly help the group can do it… also signing an agreement not to break the constitution or laws/rights etc of humanity and eNYI or something like that … that might not be perfect too, so maybe we should have a code of conduct too…again, i'm just throwing out ideas.This area is not my forte lol.

its not easy coming up with constitutions etc… I personally find them boring, but its important and we have to do it as the bedrock of our group… unu adala mba; lets keep it up, keep it moving, step by step, we'll get there - a better, fruitful, hopeful alaigbo.
nma nma nu.

PointB: Thank you Eze for setting the ball rolling,

I enjoin other participant to articulate their objectives for this movement especially now that the thorny issue of names and symbols have been dealt with. Let's put some life in this tread. Slow but surely we are making progress.

Over to you umunna.

I have tried to summarise FACE’s and Eze OnlyTruth’s posts in which they nudged us in the direction of the aims and objectives. I think that this gives us a bit of focus and something to debate . . .

1. Economic renaissance:
i) To act as a lobby group by pushing and applying subtle pressure for economic reforms with a view to pursuing economic revival and infrastructural development in the states of the former Eastern region of Nigeria .

2. Cultural renaissance:
i) To revive the Igbo language and culture as well as defeat other forms of social ills by challenging retrogressive attitudes that amplify the primacy of wealth-acquisition over sound traditional moral values, while celebrating positive role models.

3. Political awareness/empowerment:
i) To make endorsements depending on the political paradigm of the day while retaining our neutrality, non-affiliation and our principle of bringing pressure on misguided political decisions or political office holders.
ii) To help people at the grassroots to become interested and decisive in the choices they make during elections.
iii) To enforce mores and accountability in governance by holding local and national politicians accountable by the use of such tools as the FOI bill etc.

4. Civil Liberty:
i) To ensure that the rights to life, freedom of movement and dignity, of the peoples of the East are upheld, and where there is any suggestion that those rights are being abused, to ensure that the responsible person or persons do not escape justice.

Here's my vote for the records:

Name: ENYI
Motto: Reclaiming the future
Slogan: K'anyi bilie

Decisions that should be binding on those that recognise the spirit behind the forming of this group must not be based on individual preferences or prejudices. So while the argument for a strictly Igbo name is sound, at the end of the day, the will of the majority must prevail when it comes to the naming etc. That is the way we do things in Alaigbo.

I vote for ENYI. Though an acronym for the groups name, it is still an Igbo word and I, like so many others have stated, am happy with that. If we are in the majority then let the will of the majority settle this once and for all so that we can move on. Oga PointB over to you. This is already the 3rd day . . .

I also believe that the slogan; 'Reclaiming the Future' captures what this group is about. What we need to do is to perhaps fine-tune the details of 'how' to reclaim that future, and try to capture it in the aims and objectives of the group. Adding something like 'Nkulite' or 'Mbilite' or 'Ikenga' or some other Igbo phrase or sentence that captures the purpose of the group is fine if it will appease some people. But at the end of the day, let us not get distracted by chasing shadows while letting slip the substance. The 'substance' will be contained in the aims and the objectives of the group.

FACE has set the ball rolling . . .

FACE: Choosing a name becomes very difficult due to the fact that the focus of this group covers Ala Igbo in all geopolitical locations in Nigeria. ENYI sounds good, but I would add a star to represent a wildcard thus: E*NYI. Our people outside the eastern region should speak up now if they feel excluded by the name and propose a more suitable name.

Ala Igbo is in Nigeria, so focusing on Ala Igbo is also focusing on Nigeria. I also realise that there is more potential if we cooperate with our immediate neighbours and other Nigerians at large, but such cooperation must be based on mutually beneficial agreements/understandings. We must not grant concessions to those who are unwilling to reciprocate.

In order to avoid conflict of interest, I think we should focus inward for now while also participating in the national scheme of things. Our objective is more or less centred on liaising with our political leaders for economic and political prosperity while holding them to account and also enlightening our populace.

Nigerian psyche is quite complex and intentions/actions are often misconstrued and viewed from ethnic/religious perspectives. Holding our own to account and charting our own economic course should not be a problem for other ethnic groups. They can copy from us if they wish or form alliances on mutually beneficial concerns.

Therefore, I think that our objectives should be as follows:

1. Political/Economic renaissance: I am unable to separate the two because I think that economic growth is largely driven by political decisions. Government is the policy maker and biggest spender as well and those in government are politicians. I think that our engagements with government should be advisory and based on networking rather than confrontation on all issues. To this end, we must find a way to have the ears of those that matter, so that our advice/suggestions will enjoy the considerations they deserve. To this effect, we should act as a lobby group by pushing and applying subtle pressure for economic reforms.

However, there are some economic needs that will require more aggressive demands and I am sure that we will identify those projects as we progress. E.g upgrading of facilities at Enugu and Imo Airports; Niger Bridge and the river port in Onitsha.

2. Watchman-ship /Accountability: This will involve knowing all our elected officers at the federal and state levels. I suggest that we split the task among an agreed number of committees to make the task easier. We should use The FOI bill as a tool or vehicle to achieve this objective. I have used the UK version of the bill on three occasions and have also responded to FOI inquiries so I understand the fundamentals of the bill.

3. Education and Awareness: This will involve reaching as many people as possible and educating our people about mass action, using Imo state election as a reference point. I also hope that we expand the scope to cover reaching our high institutions to understand their needs and how to help them educate our young ones. The main focus of this objective will be to help our people become interested decisive on election days.

All those objectives are expandable with time, but whatever we do; we must not set ourselves up to fail. I should also suggest that we do not get sucked into giving a carte blanche support for any political party; however we can make endorsements depending on the political paradigm of the day while retaining our neutrality, non-affiliation and our principle of bringing pressure on misguided political decisions or political office holders.

Finally, our overall objectives should be strategic by design while deliberating on the tactics to employ in order to achieve our strategic goals.

Re: Motto; I think that “Reclaiming the future” is good, but I will like to add a slogan like “onye a-ghala nwanne ya” or “Igwe bu Ike” or “Ibu anyi danda” or “Ikenga”. They all mean the same thing, which is “strength in unity”.

Onlytruth: Let me grab the first spot in nominating a slogan: Reclaiming The Future


This slogan is born out of a thorough understanding of the past, an acknowledgement and acceptance of faults and blames where necessary, a firm commitment to change, and a vow to succeed.

As for the logo, I think I like some of the things in Sam_Ikenna's logo, specifically the handshake(friendship/consensus) and the palm tree (Eastern Nigeria). If we can throw in an elephant somewhere in the midst of it all, it may turn out superb.
I also want to enlighten more on the "Enyi" acronym. "Enyi" (of a different intonation) in Igbo also means a friend, so we are either extending friendship (a handshake) or we move forward without caring whose ox is gored- elephant (basically stampede our way forward ). Change is always resisted, so we must expect resistance.
I suspect that we may never need to use the latter tactic. It is good that the option stays there though.

The slogan is brilliant, Eze!

With regards to the Logo, I think that in order not to make the image too cluttered or too distracting, limiting it to two symbols would be good enough. I also think that the ‘elephant’ and the ‘handshake’ would be a natural choice, if the consensus is to go with the acronym ‘Enyi’.

For the colours, the green and red remain most significant when we reflect on the meaning of those colours - Red is not only the colour of the earth and of passion. It is also the colour of the blood that unites us all. Red is also the colour of strength. Green is the colour of Life. In the Pan African flag and even in the Nigerian flag, green was chosen because it also denotes abundant natural wealth . . .

I vote for Red and Green . . .

Symbol - The Phoenix.
The mystical bird that rises from its ashes . . . so is immortal. This would be an apt metaphor. There's quite a lot of brilliant images of the phoenix on google images.

Colours - Something red should be in there somewhere. And perhaps something fiery . . . golden perhaps. These would be colours of an unquenching passion to rise above all obstacles, to exist - a spirit that is not alien to peoples of that part of the world. While green, a more modest colour and the colour of life, should complement the fiery earth colours of gold and red . . .

In summary - Red and green with a fiery phoenix, emblozened on it . . .!

What exactly is 'a soul'?
. . . . And what is a human clone?

There is no evidence other than in the realms of science fiction that humans have been succesfully cloned - if we are to conceptualise 'human cloning' as a directed creation of a genetically identical copy of a human . . . or any living cell for that matter.

In other words, a clone is a copy of something . . . or someone. It is not an original.

Twins, triplets, quadruplets etc on the other hand are (naturally occuring) multiple births arising from a single cell. They are multiple originals - not copies. So they are NOT clones!

So would a theoretical human clone have a soul? That's the question right? To answer that question, one would need to clarify what constitutes 'a soul'.

Is 'a soul' a function of neuronal pathways and neurophysiology? Or is it something located outside of biology . . . a 'spiritual' entity, perhaps? If the soul is located in biology(i.e. a product of neurophysiology) then human clones would have one. If it isn't, then the question rages on . . .

. . . the CONMESS will be paid in full. Either now or in the near future.

It’s a pity that some people were taken in by the ridiculous propaganda of the LSG that the Doctors struggled to get re-instated. They certainly did NOT!

It was a foregone conclusion that ALL of them would have been re-instated, seeing that in this particular face-off, the Doctors ALWAYS held the upper hand . . . and they knew it.

Below is one of the first comments I made regarding this whole drama when it had only started . . . and I was spot on!

beneli: The scenario which is most likely to unfold over the next few days - or weeks - is that the sacked Doctors will all be recalled to their old jobs . . . that’s if Governor Fashola is as smart as people on hear make him out to be.

If this wasn’t so life threatening, I would have been laughing out loud at this moment! The reality on ground however, is that no matter how much we’d want to disparage the Doctors, NO state in Nigeria can afford to sack its Doctors, not when among those sacked are 2 US-trained brain surgeons, in a country where there are no more than 5! I suspect that amongst those sacked would also be many experienced Surgeons, Paediatricians, O&G specialists . . . and yes, even Psychiatrists! .

The cost of this misadventure is difficult to quantify but . . . let me state with a lot of confidence and possibly a bit of arrogance . . . I am sure that the costs will far outweigh any ‘superficial’ political short-term gains that our esteemed Governor Fashola thinks that he is making. I say ‘political’ because this decision is clearly not well thought through – there is no gain that can be made from sacking Doctors in a country where there is only 1 Doctor to every 4000 patients . . . especially when the only thing the Doctors are asking for is for the government to fulfil its part of an agreement!

What some supporters of this decision seem not to immediately realise is that those, employed to ‘replace’ the sacked Doctors are not going to be of the same level of experience or competence - a Consultant who is not already in government employment would most likely not be applying for these vacant posts, because the government will NOT be able to pay him even half of what he is used to earning! The gullible public should not be hoodwinked by the media into thinking that the government is doing the right thing. It isn’t . . .

The right thing to do is NOT to renege on what has already been agreed on. The right thing for the government to do is to go into a negotiation mode, if it thinks that it cannot fulfil its part of the agreement . . .

You see, in spite of whatever hypocrite’s oath that Doctors are supposed to have made at the point of graduation, which some erroneously misconstrue as a pledge to a life of poverty, Doctors are actually flesh and blood human beings. And like all flesh and blood humans . . . who are intelligent . . . they too have the inner dialogue that some also refer to as a conscience, so will submit to reason when it is presented to them without any threats! And because they are humans, they too need to eat, pay rent and phuck like everyone else . . . and none of these things are gratis . . .

To cut a long story short, if the sacked Doctors are not recalled to their old jobs then the Health sector in Lagos is going to be more phucked than it already is.

And in case I missed the most important point of this my Friday afternoon drivel, the sacked Doctors are not the ones who are going to come out of this whole drama worse off . . .

You see, those who think that, in a 3rd world country whose average IQ has been estimated to hover around an uninspiring 63 - in which the Doctor–patient ratio is on par with countries like Sudan - the Doctors are dispensable, are having a laugh . . . and one that’s at the expense of a terribly insipid joke!

The LSG should quit this offensive and quite frankly, rancid politicking already, and apologise to Lagosians. And then apologise to the Doctors that it betrayed. It was not in the least sophisticated to let down the poor and vulnerable people who mandated it to provide them access to a reasonable quality of healthcare. And then turn around to make out that those it reneged in its agreement with are the culprits.

It was in bad taste to have gone down this route. And only the ignorant are fooled . . .

Evil Brain: I'm a doctor and I haven't been paid for months either. I still go to work everyday even though I'm usually balls to the wall broke.

People don't really understand what these doctors are fighting for. It's not really about the small amount of money Lagos refused to pay. It's about the principle that your employer cannot tamper with your money no matter what, even if they are the government. It's to show that when you sign an agreement, you have to keep your end no matter who you are. Might is not right.

If you look at it in those terms, then the doctors are really fighting for all Nigerians.

For a single guy like me, it would be so easy to move to Ghana and get more money for doing less work in a far safer and saner environment. The reason I stay here is because money is not really the issue. The same applies to most doctors.

The bolded part is the gist of the matter from the perspective of the Doctors.

But I agree with Oyb's advice - leave while you can - It get's more and more difficult with each passing year.

I learnt the hard way that you can't afford to be 'charitable' and altruistic - in a society like Nigeria . . . not when you're frustrated, you can't.

When the curse lifted or whatever it was that held me bound 'serving humanity' as a ‘godforsaken and wretched Doctor . . . who believed that’ money is not really the issue'. . . I briefly visited the Gambia and also Ghana to check out things there, before deciding to jump ship completely and do something better with my life!

In those days . . . in the early 2000’s. . . it was still pretty easy to leave Nigeria for places like the Republic of Ireland, T&T, Barbados and even this UK where I have finally docked at to practice with a bit more dignity.

Now it's become increasingly more difficult to travel out as more and more people are shed of the shackles that bound them to whatever pledge of poverty they made . . . which certainly is not part of the Hippocratic oath, increasing by day the competition in practically every country that offers a semblance of respect to Doctors!

In my 'batch' that left when we did, at least 2 travelled to Bridgetown in Barbados, and are now Consultants. Then, there was no need for exams or 'primaries' before you could got into the residency programme there. And you were also paid way better than you got in Nigeria! You can Google Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Bridgetown and contact them to find out what their requirements are now. I suspect there’s an exam but i’m sure it’s still easier than PLAB and USMLE . . .

The bottom line - if you are still single, leave like yesterday . . . you're worth more than the nonsense being hurled at you in Naija. When you’re more comfortable and have the privilege due you as a Doctor, to want the finer things of life, you can then afford to say; ‘it’s not really about the money’ . . .

Wallie: How does one determine adequate remuneration? What does “adequate” mean?

I admit that without a ‘Gold standard’ to use to determine what constitutes 'adequate remuneration', one can only be left spewing up ‘conjectures’. To give us some kind of a benchmark, I tried searching for what Doctors in countries, similar to Nigeria in level of development, earn but so far it’s like opening up a Pandora box of doom and gloom! It appears that our cousins in Ghana have also been in the habit of striking and on the receiving end of curses from the rest of the population!

So to answer your question, I don’t know what constitutes ‘adequate remuneration’. What i do know is that before I left Nigeria a decade ago, the amount of money I was earning as a medical officer was not ‘adequate’ to meet my needs. On arriving the UK and becoming an SHO with a similar level of responsibility, the remuneration i was compensated with, was ‘adequate’ for me as a single young man with extended family in Nigeria. It has since continued to increase with my increasing experience and responsibility, such that now that I have family and kids, my remuneration is still ‘adequate’ for the quality of life that I want to give to my family!

Another thing that I can add is that the person who wears the shoe, knows where it pinches - so if the Doctors in Nigeria don’t feel adequately remunerated, then they’re not!

Wallie: Isn’t ‘adequate’ determined by supply vs. demand?

Absolutely!

Wallie: Exactly!!! If they’re not satisfied with their current employment, they’re free to go somewhere else but why hold the citizenry at ransom?

The phrase ‘hold the citizenry at ransom’ is one way to look at the situation that developed following the governments reneging of what it agreed to do. Somebody else may see things as the Doctors and the citizens becoming victims of a government’s lack of integrity and insensitivity to the plight of its citizens. Strike actions, as already stated, happen in so many other countries and in none of them have Doctors ever been sacked!

The situation is as bad as it is now because the government sacked the Doctors and not because they went on strike. . .

Wallie: Conjecture. Where did you get this from?

Not Conjecture sir!

As already stated above I actually have worked in Nigeria as a Doctor. I have also since then had cause to deal with Nigerians of different professional backgrounds in the course of trying to do business in Nigeria or whilst trying to sort out personal matters. So, I do have reasonable experience of people’s attitude to work in Nigeria!

You may want to dismiss the statement as based on some fringe anecdotal exposures, but indulge me a little and tell me which professions in Nigeria can be held up as exemplary in their attitudes to work? If you can then I will so gladly retract my statement!

Wallie: Why won’t I renege on an agreement that I signed under duress or wasn’t a party/privy to? If people are suffering and dying, and all I have to do to alleviate the suffering for a while is just to sign a contract, I would sign it.

Let’s not forget that the agreement was made in 2009 and that Lagos is a state that I am made to understand pays members of legal family more than the national average. It is also a state that can afford to spend up to a billion (?) on the birthday bash of one of its elders! So clearly sir an agreement made by such a party would not be in the same league as one made by an individual such as yourself. And I say this not to belittle you in any way, sir!

Wallie: If your loved one is seriously sick and in need of an immediate life-saving surgery but the surgeon won’t operate unless you write him a $1,000,000 check, would you write it knowing fully well that you don’t have the money?

That’s a tough one!

To be honest I don’t know what i would do in such a rather precarious situation, but I suspect I wouldn’t write a dud cheque though – I never did have the opportunity to acquire that somewhat inelegant Nigerian trait (we're supposed to laugh out loud at this point)!

Wallie: Here are the duties of a doctor, at least in the UK, which should be similar to Nigeria's.

http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/good_medical_practice/duties_of_a_doctor.asp

. . . and those Doctors are remunerated adequately to enable them fulfil their own part of the contract!

Doctors here are also not obligated to work more than 48 hours a week if they don't want to. For any extra hours worked, there is a built in mechanism within the system (locum opportunities) to ensure that they are adequately compensated.

Of course, we all understand that medical practice is supposed to be a vocation and not a means to becoming stupendously rich; however you have to bear in mind that to attract the right people into the 'vocation' you still have to ensure that they are at least adequately remunerated for their 'services to humanity'. Contrary to what some people have been saying, Doctors are indispensable! If they were not, they would not be among the highest paid civil servants in almost all countries of the world. In Nigeria more so, because in spite of the hype the Lagos government WILL NOT be able to replace most of the Doctors it has sacked!

And no matter what people on here are now saying to justify the positions they are taking, Nigerian Doctors are not inherently worse off in terms of their attitudes to work than their counterparts from other parts of the world. After all these same Doctors that are so maligned in Nigeria still go abroad and excel in their various specialities and are able to relate well with their patients. Does that then not suggest that the problem is a systemic problem, located somewhere else and not within the Doctors themselves?

The fact that there is hardly any profession in Nigeria that fairs better in terms of their attitude to work would indicate that this is a systemic problem and not the fault of the Doctors per se . . . so if people really do have that inclination to curse, I would honestly suggest that they start by cursing themselves . . .

At the end of the day, as long as you’re weighed down by the pervasive rot in all sectors in Nigeria, y'all in the same shit with the much maligned doctors, so you really can’t take the moral high ground. If you did you wouldn’t be able to escape being labelled a Hypocrite!

In all sincerity, I think that if people wanted to be fair, they should try to identify the real cause of this whole impasse - this is not the time to play politics or be prejudiced by the negative experiences some people have had with some Doctors. The fact remains that not all Doctors are bad, and in spite of the media's painting of Doctors as cold blooded and heartless creatures, the true villains here if any, are not the Doctors . . . who themselves are just victims of an inept and corrupt system.

People are too quick to forget that some of these same Doctors were still going to work and providing skeletal service to ensure that the lives of the critically ill were preserved during the so called strike where they were asking that the government do what it agreed to do.

If there were to be a villain in this whole thing, the real villain here would be the one that has reneged on its agreement and then gone ahead to use all the resources at it’s disposal to play some kind of macabre 'politics', while remaining impervious to the suffering of the many vulnerable and already broken people who elected it to serve and protect them.

But then, the matter has gone to court. So let the court decide . . .

Though I am not directly affected by what is going on, I can’t help finding a lot of the comments on here to be not only sentimental hogwash, but occasionally, outrightly ignorant!

The Doctors are not ‘begging’ to get their jobs back they are demanding that not only should their jobs be given back to them but also that the government should commence FULL implementation of CONMESS.

Here’s the press release from NARD stating their position clearly:

alajikineo: Rather than heed to the warning and speedily re-initiate processes towards resolution of the matter, the Government of Lagos state embarked on campaign of calumny and intimidation by issuing queries, use of thugs to harass doctors, publication of doctors salaries in newspapers thereby endangering their lives and that of their families, setting up of disciplinary panels and eventual mass sack of a record 788 doctors in its employment and forceful eviction of same from their residential quarters with only two days eviction notice, in clear violation of Lagos state tenancy laws.

The Nigerian Medical Association has taken up the gauntlet and is negotiating with the Government of Lagos state on behalf of the Medical Guild. We hope that the Government would have a rethink, rescind its anti labour decisions and commence full implementation of the CONMESS . The doctors deserve nothing less!

While we await the outcome of the intervention by the Nigerian Medical Association, we wish to state unequivocally that the present situation is completely unacceptable to NARD and therefore must not persist. For the avoidance of doubt, NARD shall not hesitate to employ all machineries at her disposal to protect the interest of her members in Lagos state, if the Government remains insensitive.

We therefore earnestly call on all well meaning Nigerians and the National Assembly to intervene towards resolving the impasse and prevent needless losses of lives of innocent downtrodden Nigerians.

Whilst we remain true to the oath sworn by every doctor to consecrate our lives to the service of humanity, what we ask of the society is to grant us that which is due onto us.

Thank you.


Dr C. J. Achonwa Dr U. S. Galadima
President Ag. Secretary General

What a lot of people on here don’t seem to be aware of is that a country of 160 million people served by only 22,000 Doctors is actually in a very desperate situation . . . and if it then goes ahead to sack almost 1000 of these Doctors then something is clearly wrong with the concerned government, which in this particular case is led by Governor Fashola. No amount of spinning the issues or playing to the sentiments of a largely ignorant population, by the few who understand the political implications of this error, will make it right – he’s screwed up big time on this one!

I doubt the Doctors will change their position. They are right and Fashola is wrong, so he should not try to run away from something he has agreed to. It’s not statesmanlike of him to continue doing so . . .

I do hope the court will do the right thing – reinstate the positions of the Doctors and if it’s within its powers to also MANDATE the government to do what it agreed it would do. Otherwise the brain drain will continue . . .

For now, Doctors don’t BEG for jobs. At least not in a country like Nigeria and certainly not in the UK or in the USA . . . If that sounds arrogant – deal with it!

The state of health care in Nigeria has been worsened by a physician shortage as a consequence of severe 'brain drain'. Many Nigerian doctors have emigrated to North America and Europe. In 2005, 2,392 Nigeria doctors were practising in the US alone, in UK number was 1,529. Retaining these expensively trained professionals has been identified as an urgent goal . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Nigeria

Laalamed: Dr u can limit them.i can remember that dr akinbami,consultant in Chew ,uch instructed that emergencies should not be accepted but refer cos ward is filled up.in standard practice there is limit to what doctors can do.but consultants are d problems,they could not tell d truth.also,call duty should be regulated.in uk and usa ,residents work for about 60hrs per week including call,any extra duty is extramoney.admin staff are living large and doctors are suffering.yeye call.NMA should rise and do right things

I agree with you there. . .

I don’t know the full coverage of the CONMESS thing that the government is now reneging on, but my hope is that it takes into consideration the issues you raise.

The fact is that Doctors also have the right to a proper work-life balance, in spite of their much vaunted obligations to ‘save lives’. Where they are not able to have this balance, due to peculiar conditions they may find themselves working in, attempts should be made as much as possible to adequately compensate them. If other professionals feel that they too are not adequately compensated, they also should be making representations to the government through their unions for better conditions of work.

To be frank, it is in poor taste to bemoan the agitation of Doctors, only asking to be treated with a little bit more respect . . .

In the UK, those in NHS training posts (the equivalence of Resident Doctors in Nigeria) are bound by what is called the European Working Time Directive (EWTD) that requires them to work not more than 48 hours in a week. This was fought for and won by the British Medical Association, which by the way performs pretty much the same role that the NMA performs.

Hospitals get around this EWTD by additionally employing extra Doctors, willing to take up non-training posts (usually desperate overseas Doctors) to fill up the slots left as a result of the restricted working hours. These restrictions also create opportunities for locum agencies that are not bound by the EWTD to sign up Doctors already employed by the NHS, but willing to work more hours (above the EWTD) as locums. Some junior Doctors working out of hours or doing locums in places like London have been able to earn an extra £1.2 - 1.5k every month (up to 18k per annum) on top of their salaries . . . which by the way was already way higher than the average salary earned by everybody else (except perhaps investment bankers working in the ‘city’)!

There is no getting around the fact that to get a functional health service, ALL health practitioners need to be adequately compensated. Nurses in the UK are able to achieve a reasonable income by doing extra shifts in their places of work and also doing ‘agency work’ . . . similar to the locums that Doctors do for their out of hour and weekend jobs.

To be honest, if Doctors here in the UK were paid the same kind of comparatively demeaning compensation that our colleagues in Nigeria are paid, I am sure that there would have been some sort of industrial action or temporary downing of tools! But the people who make the rules here are smart enough to recognise the role health professionals play in the proper functioning of their countries, so remunerate them commensurately. A lot of Doctors and GP’s in the UK earn way more than the legislators and the ministers here (MP’s)!

One can however understand the frustration of the general public, but I think that the anger from it, is misdirected. The public should not be venting its displeasures against overworked Doctors, who are only asking for the government to fulfil its pledges to pay them a wage somewhat more reflective of the work the Doctors put in. The rage should be against the politicians who have been squandering the common wealth of all Nigerians and still have the state of mind to pay themselves obscene wages for doing absolutely nothing . . . !

A Hypocrites Oath or a calling to be godlike . . . ?

It has been suggested that if a person lacks that innate sense of wanting to care for people and servicing humanity . . . in a morally upright way . . . then they have no business going into the medical profession in the first place. Doctors are believed to have taken an Oath that becomes their guiding principle, which keeps them on the straight and narrow path, whenever they are tempted to yield to those ‘baser’ human instincts of wanting to fend for self above others. . .

Some people even advise that as charitable morally upright professionals, Doctors should be wiling to always work, come rain or shine - without adequate remuneration - sacrificing the needs of their own family and friends because of that ‘Oath’ they took that has transformed them into some sort of godlike creatures, now impervious to pain, sorrow, hunger . . . or the need for intimacy and appreciation.

Below is a copy of the modern version of that ‘Oath’. What might strike a lot of honest readers is that it is just a call to be responsible in ones duty, while being aware of one’s limitations both as a human and as a member of society. It does not confer on the one who takes it the virtues of a god . . .

Hippocratic Oath: Modern Version

I swear to fulfil, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

—Written in 1964 by Louis Lasagna, Academic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University, and used in many medical schools today.

The scenario which is most likely to unfold over the next few days - or weeks - is that the sacked Doctors will all be recalled to their old jobs . . . that’s if Governor Fashola is as smart as people on hear make him out to be.

If this wasn’t so life threatening (pun intended), I would have been laughing out loud at this moment! The reality on ground however, is that no matter how much we’d want to disparage the Doctors, NO state in Nigeria can afford to sack its Doctors, not when among those sacked are 2 US-trained brain surgeons, in a country where there are no more than 5! I suspect that amongst those sacked would also be many experienced Surgeons, Paediatricians, O&G specialists . . . and yes, even Psychiatrists! .

The cost of this misadventure is difficult to quantify but . . . let me state with a lot of confidence and possibly a bit of arrogance . . . I am sure that the costs will far outweigh any ‘superficial’ political short-term gains that our esteemed Governor Fashola thinks that he is making. I say ‘political’ because this decision is clearly not well thought through – there is no gain that can be made from sacking Doctors in a country where there is only 1 Doctor to every 4000 patients . . . especially when the only thing the Doctors are asking for is for the government to fulfil its part of an agreement!

What some supporters of this decision seem not to immediately realise is that those, employed to ‘replace’ the sacked Doctors are not going to be of the same level of experience or competence - a Consultant who is not already in government employment would most likely not be applying for these vacant posts, because the government will NOT be able to pay him even half of what he is used to earning! The gullible public should not be hoodwinked by the media into thinking that the government is doing the right thing. It isn’t . . .

The right thing to do is NOT to renege on what has already been agreed on. The right thing for the government to do is to go into a negotiation mode, if it thinks that it cannot fulfil its part of the agreement . . .

You see, in spite of whatever hypocrite’s oath that Doctors are supposed to have made at the point of graduation, which some erroneously misconstrue as a pledge to a life of poverty, Doctors are actually flesh and blood human beings. And like all flesh and blood humans . . . who are intelligent . . . they too have the inner dialogue that some also refer to as a conscience, so will submit to reason when it is presented to them without any threats! And because they are humans, they too need to eat, pay rent and phuck like every one else . . . and none of these things are gratis . . .

To cut a long story short, if the sacked Doctors are not recalled to their old jobs then the Health sector in Lagos is going to be more phucked than it already is.

And in case I missed the most important point of this my Friday afternoon drivel, the sacked Doctors are not the ones who are going to come out of this whole drama worse off . . .

^^

Ok . . .

ikechiozo:

On a normal day i would ignore your post but for the sake of people that may not know what goes on within the health system especially as it applies to Nigeria, clarifications need to be made. Firstly, the issue under contention is not about superiority as docs have come to see themselves as demi-gods but about recognition of d independence of other healthcare professionals in exercising their duties. I don't need a radiologist to tell me when there is a bone fracture, a chest infection, tumour and so on. If you must know the training a radiographer receives in the five year training in the university is what a radiologist starts to learn during the residency training. A radiographer can take the radiographs but a radiologist cannot do that. In the UK radiographers are empowered to make interpretations.[b][/b]You need to be well informed.

Its obvious you dont know what is obtainable outside Nigeria. Do you think is everyone that is interested in studying to be a doctor? This is the rubbish they feed you with right from your school cos i can tell that you are still a student.

. . . but they still get paid way less than the radiologist!

Agreed that in civilised climes all health professionals work as members of multidisciplinary teams (MDT) - people on here have already exhausted the argument about working in teams and so on and so nauseatingly forth. But . . .

But . . . in the MDT, different professionals understand that they have roles to play, which they get on with, without fretting over who earns what. You see, though members of the MDT all get along on first name basis, everybody still understands that within it there is still a hierarchy of authority . . . and responsibility. A hierarchy in which the Consultant is still at the helm of affairs. This authority and responsibility is reflected in the take home pay of the members of the MDT!

I doubt anybody can seriously deny the fact that Nigerian Doctors are underpaid, overworked and clearly unappreciated, going by a lot of the posts on here. I can understand when people ask why Doctors demand to be treated different from other civil servants, but the reality is that in most sane societies Doctors are treated different - they are almost always the highest earning ‘civil servants’ and usually fall within the highest earning citizens, including the Junior Doctors . . . even when you include private and public sector workers.

Of course Nigerian Doctors in Nigeria should be asking for equipments and better training and all the other nice things that should enable them to work like sane people. They should be asking – nay demanding – that the politicians patronise them, so that they too can experience the unquenching joys of being patients in Nigeria. But for now, this agitation is about their remuneration – its about the good ol’ egokudiowo and the government has a responsibility to fulfil any promises it has made. Chikena!

I don’t know how to say this without coming across as callous but the truth is that the government should be held responsible for all the casualties of this strike - NOT the long suffering Doctors. . !

Most of us, Nigerian Doctors in the Diaspora, sympathise with the plight of our colleagues at home. Once upon a time, most of us were there in the trenches with them . . . tummies growling and all . . . so understand their hunger and their pains. . . .