People may also like to read the "In the Bible" section under this Wikipedia article, it discusses believed appearances of the Son of God in his pre-incarnate days:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophany

vs 6 "and hath raised us up together, and made us SIT together in HEAVENLYplaces in Christ Jesus

How on earth does this mean that joagbaje will sit at the right hand of God the father.

That is pure heresy ,this request was made by the mother of the sons of zebedee and was flatly denied by Jesus while here on earth.

Even this sitting in heaven applies to saints that has conquered sin while on earth and were able to make it to heaven.It does not refer to us that are still in the race to heaven.Pray for the grace of God to be able to make it to the end ,stop boasting

@Joagbaje:
I can see that you are far gone in your delusion of being god and are unwilling to repent of it. Confronted with several irrefutable scriptures; instead to taking time to ponder on them the demonic spirit pushing you forces you to utter further untruths. Thank the Lord that your true nature is exposed for people to see.

Joagbaje:

Don't push me,  what if I tell you Jesus wasn't there in the beginning?  It was the word of God that was there. The word was not a separate person. The word only became a separate person for salvation of man. The word became flesh

^Really? Jesus wasn't there at the beginning? The Theophanies of the OT were who? The scriptures are so clear, plain and unvarnished, that I wonder how you would suggest otherwise unless you are under a strong delusion.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Of the Word in verse 4, 9 & 10: it is written; "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." And "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.".
Who was in the world? The Word. Who is the Word? Jesus---"the same was in the beginning with God." "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
This is so elementary that a 5-year old could explain it to Joagbaje.

Joagbaje:

This is where you are missing it. I was the one who died, I was raised from the dead on the third day. 

^Words are important. Jesus is the One who died and resurrected from the dead. We identify with the Death and Resurrection in a vicarious fashion, not in the way you state it. Here is how the scripture states it.
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
A subtle distinction perhaps but makes all the difference for your words reveal that you are a proponent of the Copeland heresy which claims that he (Copeland) could have done what Jesus did on the cross.

Joagbaje:

If you bring water out of the ocean into a cup. Its still ocean water. If you put it back into the ocean , its inseparable. I am an eternal being. If you understand the eternal life I have in christ you will recognise. That a spirit is immortal. A spirit is what I am . I am only caged in human body. I transcend material realm of life.

Precisely that who I AM.

^Thank you for unveiling the Gnostic & New Age roots of your belief system. Your analogy of the ocean suggests panentheism which is an extreme heresy that impugns the character of God and makes Him more like a man.
#1. An eternal being has no beginning and is uncreated. But it plain and evident that not only does Joagbaje have a beginning but he also is a created being. God is Eternal. In Christ Jesus, we have eternal life, outside of Him, there is no life. Again a subtle distinction but it makes all the difference.
#2. You seek to create a dichotomy between body and spirit (something that you Gnostics delight in doing) by stating: "A spirit is what I am . I am only caged in human body.", conveniently forgetting that Man is a Body, Soul, and Spirit. We are not caged in bodies. That is part of what makes us man. And the promise of redemption and glorification includes our bodies..
#3. Precisely who you are is Joagbaje not the I AM. It is your panentheistic inclinations that drive you make that foul statement but God rebukes you in his word:

Isa 47:10-11. For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me. Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.

YLT: Psalms Chapter 50:21. These thou didst, and I kept silent, Thou hast thought that I am like thee, I reprove thee, and set in array before thine eyes.

Joagbaje:

I  was once casting a devil out of a person, and the demon spoke at me saying " this is my house , I'm not coming out"  I replied " you demon, I defeated you 2000 years ago, you are subject to my authority , COME OUT! "  guess what ? It came out! The person vomited phlegm out of her mouth and other substances and she was healed.
If you don't know who you are in christ, you can't cast out devils. The authority of Jesus is my authority. His name is my name. As I fellowship with this truth, I no longer see myself as joagbaje but as christ. ( I'm in him , he's in me) the same way Satan sees me, he sees light he sees christ in my eyes. He sees the one who defeated him.

#1. That you perform exorcisms does not in any way authenticate you. The sons of Sceva performed exorcisms, so did the Pharisees. Even some that claim to cast out devils in Jesus' name.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
#2. Your words plainly reveal that you follow another gospel not of Jesus. You can "cast out" as many devils as you wish but if your teaching does not align with scripture then the truth dwells not in you---it is a lying wonder. Simple
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"
#3. Your self-glorifying post above clearly shows how far gone you are into self worship. An examination of the book of Acts shows that the Apostles were careful to ascribe all glory to Jesus for whatever miracles they performed:
Acts 3:6. Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Acts 4:10. Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 16:18. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
^They certainly didn't go around claiming that their name is Jesus. And the stark contrast between what they did and your self-glorifying and convoluted shenanigans is evident.

Joagbaje:

You should study more the messages of Paul and John, then you can have deeper insight into pastor chris message.

^Yeah. You had to find a way to sneak in the name of your god; pastor chris. My answer to you:
2 Pet 3:15-17. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

You are of the party who wrest the scriptures unto their own destruction.

Joagbaje:

There were some scriptures altered to suit religious fathers, which I will not want to go into so as not to sound as discredit to the scriptures. I may rest my case here.

^^Yeah right, the scriptures were altered. And you are the ones in possession of the authentic scriptures, I suppose? Classic argument of cults. As I 've always maintained Christ Embassy is a cult. Today I'm vindicated.

Very recently I said Joagbaje is to Christianity what Abuzola is to Christianity. I should have said "Nopuqeater" - So the scriptures have been altered ehn? And God was unable to keep them AND Jesus wasn't "always" - no wonder it is ROR that is authentic and unfortunately, chris embassy has refused to show us the "authentic Bible". Any talk now would be considered as insults and abuse.

And of course, delusional idiotic moronic statements like these are the ones that have sound background to the apostle of infinity. Both of you fit perfectly anyway - delusion + abstraction!

@newmi:

Jesus wasn't always? Thats what you support that makes you expect me to cheer you on? Of course, Yahweh was lying when He said ALL other gods (including you, joagbaje and chris) are false gods? And it was Joagbaje that was referred to in Ps 82 as a "god", right? For if it was not a born-again christian, what does that tell you about your claim except that anyone and anything can make it? I did not insult you - I tried to call you to reason. As Enigma said (and I rephrase), this is about insanity thats gone cross-country.

@Inesqor:

Please come into this and where exactly is Viaro? He knew how to handle these people without losing it.

^^^ I just taya wen i read the pasiitor's latest bombshell.

By the way, I recall vaguely that newmi is connected to Joagbaje in some way like mabell and nuella.

Another BTW, nuc, I misread: it was Joagbaje who actually posted the gotquestions link --- I thought it was you which is why I playfully suggested the Yoruba link; incidentally, the Yoruba link may actually be helpful for our pasiitor.

^^ No wahala.

This "connection" thing you mention would be insane if true - jo, newmi, mabell, nuella, drmightie, kenyan22 ? Scary yet apt when one considers the motive is targeted adverts designed to fill the pews and the money coffers.

Make we all continue - one day, the chaff will be separated. Whats interesting is total disregard of "I never knew you" and the accompanying judgement. Also, cut to the chase and you'll find empty barrels with nothing solid down - the faintest breeze strips such naked which is why they're desperate to have acolytes who'll support them and fight to keep such in bondage

Really, i've being having laughs skimming through this page and the previous. On another note, it calls for tears. outrageous is child's play.

By the way,

You should study more the messages of Paul and John, then you can have deeper insight into pastor chris message.

Seems i've come across this quote before, perhaps in another thread. I'm like, is pastor chris in a sort of higher realm than Paul and John? Are they like pre-degree pre-requisites to understanding the said pastor or what? Joagbaje, abeg help me out here.

@Image:

I keep telling you - very soon, you'll be called babyteeth, roforofo fighter, degenerate etc with the way you're challenging pastor chris. PLEASE don't forget you're an ordinary chritian, Paul, James and John were ordinary apostles whist joagbaje and pastor chris are "god".

Moses, Enoch and Elijah are also watching and learning from them, by the way.

You better be careful.

@altheia

aletheia:

@Joagbaje:
I can see that you are far gone in your delusion of being god and are unwilling to repent of it. Confronted with several irrefutable scriptures; instead to taking time to ponder on them the demonic spirit pushing you forces you to utter further untruths. Thank the Lord that your true nature is exposed for people to see.

What irrefutable scriptures? This is Nonsense!

^Really? Jesus wasn't there at the beginning? The Theophanies of the OT were who? 

The theophanies and "christophanies " were workings of the holyspirit . He is the angel. Of his presence.

The scriptures are so clear, plain and unvarnished, that I wonder how you would suggest otherwise unless you are under a strong delusion.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Of the Word in verse 4, 9 & 10: it is written; "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." And "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.".

The word became flesh is not the same as Jesus became flesh. There was no jesus in heaven. References to Jesus has to do with mans salvation. If you find any scripture that say otherwise about Jesus , quote it out.

Who was in the world? The Word. Who is the Word? Jesus---"the same was in the beginning with
God." "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

No one is denying the fact that the word made flesh became Jesus. There was no person called Jesus in heaven. The word of God was part of God. And God said let there be light". Was there someones head sticking out of Gods mouth while he spoke. His word was part of him. God sends his word . To save to heal . When the word became flesh, did God loose his voice? He was still speaking from heaven , even to christ. I am also a product of Gods word. 

1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, --- by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


If you understand the mystery of Godliness , you will realise that Jesus is truly your brother. And he is not ashamed to call us brethren.

Hebrews 2:11
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified[ are] all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hey! Did you see that ? Jesus calls me his brother !. Altheia calls me ----- whatever. 

Jesus is the One who died and resurrected from the dead[/i]. We identify with the Death and Resurrection in a vicarious fashion, not in the way you state it. Here is how the scripture states it.
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

This just shows how much you don't really understand identification with christ. We became sin through Adam transgression. And we were destined to hell because he was mans representative.if you don't understand the doctrine of sin, you may not understand righteousness. He sinned in proxy for us.

Romans 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


We did not become sin because of what we personally sinned. You can't tell God "I didn't do anything wrong" Adam sinned on our account. We were identified with him. So even if you didn't do anything bad. You were a sinner.

Romans 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:  (in Adam )
   

A subtle distinction perhaps but makes all the difference for your words reveal that you are a proponent of the Copeland heresy which claims that he (Copeland) could have done what Jesus did on the cross.

Not  that he could have died on the cross, that's an  understatement ! He did! He died on the cross in christ. If you send viaro to make post with your I.D on Nairaland , who makes the post ? You. Because he or she did it on your account .
So if Jesus died on my account , I died. I'm not claiming his victory or glory , he gave me the cheque! Title deed. " go in my Name"  my representative. He had represented me, now I represent him. He is my brother.and we are one.

Romans 8:29 GWT
29 This is true because he already knew his people and had already appointed them to have the same form as the image of his Son. Therefore, his Son is the firstborn among many children.

^Thank you for unveiling the Gnostic & New Age roots of your belief system. Your analogy of the ocean suggests panentheism which is an extreme heresy that impugns the character of God and makes Him more like a man.
#1. An eternal being has no beginning and is uncreated. But it plain and evident that not only does Joagbaje have a beginning but he also is a created being. God is Eternal. In Christ Jesus, we have eternal life, outside of Him, there is no life. Again a subtle distinction but it makes all the difference.

I am a spirit , I dwell in a  body. I am immortal . I am eternal. This is a simple truth. Spirits don't die!

#2. You seek to create a dichotomy between body and spirit (something that you Gnostics delight in doing) by stating: "A spirit is what I am . I am only caged in human body.", conveniently forgetting that Man is a Body, Soul, and Spirit.

The bible orders it in the reverse, spirit, soul and body. When the body is destroyed man still lives on . His body is mere vessel for contact with the material world or realm of life.

We are not caged in bodies. That is part of what makes us man.

The human body is a limitation to our full expression.

2 Corinthians 4:7
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, ---

2 Corinthians 5:2-4
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found unclothed. 4 For we that are in[ this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

#1. That you perform exorcisms does not in any way authenticate you. The sons of Sceva performed exorcisms, so did the Pharisees. Even some that claim to cast out devils in Jesus' name.

Why dont you try it and see if you will survive it. Satan can't cast out Satan .

Mark 3:23
23 And he called them[ unto him], and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
#2. Your words plainly reveal that you follow another gospel not of Jesus. You can "cast out" as many devils as you wish but if your teaching does not align with scripture then the truth dwells not in you---it is a lying wonder. Simple
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"
#3. Your self-glorifying post above clearly shows how far gone you are into self worship. An examination of the book of Acts shows that the Apostles were careful to ascribe all glory to Jesus for whatever miracles they performed:
Acts 3:6. Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Acts 4:10. Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 16:18. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
^They certainly didn't go around claiming that their name is Jesus. And the stark contrast between what they did and your self-glorifying and convoluted shenanigans is evident.
^Yeah. You had to find a way to sneak in the name of your god; pastor chris. My answer to you:
2 Pet 3:15-17. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

You are of the party who wrest the scriptures unto their own destruction.

Verrry long rubbish!
[quote][/quote]

@Joegbaje, @aletheia, @Chukwudi44
For those involved with the heated debate of whether or not "Jesus" existed in the beginning, l think this might be of significant interest to you:

it is important to note that in almost of the instances where there's a reference of the naming of the baby "Jesus" we often see the use of the phrase ", and shall be called, ", not anything like ", as His name has been, "

Math 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Then in John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

he didn't say in the biginning was "Jesus" neither did it say ", three that bears records in heaven, the Father, Jesus[/b]and the Spirit, " particular references were made to the Word as independent entity.

In John 1, the bible says that ", and the word became flesh and dwelt amongst us" not ", and [b]Jesus became flesh, " so from this point we could say all that existed from the biginning was the Word

Acts 13
22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

The bible says that Jesus is ", the root and upsring of David, " in the beginning "as the Word" - the root of david
then in the flesh as Jesus- the upspring of david.

Question:
Yes "The Word", is not a name rahter it refers to a personality, "Jesus-Yhowshua(Hebrew) and Iesous(Grk)" is the name of the "Word becoming flesh", isn't this one and the same person without any discredence to the question of numenclature. Then be that as it may can't we also conclude that Jesus actually existed in the beginning thus negating joeagbaje's claims.
inasmuch as l am taking sides, l want the different sides to consider these scriptures and points and kindly endeavour to explain.
thank you

@newmi

Is it the name that matters or the entity, the person, the essence behind that name or appellation ----- whether it be "the Word", "Jesus", "the Christ", "the Morning Star" or "the Alfa and Omega"?

Is Jesus to be differentiated from the Word, the Christ etc?

I always seem to be fighting but this is all so easy it puzzles me how people can miss it. Jesus and the Word! Whats the difference?

Can anyone touch himself? Yep, you can touch your head or shoulder or nose or whatever! The only way YOURSELF IS EXPRESSED is when someone calls you and you answer! Who answered? YOU! ! ! You are your word! So what was Jesus? Was it the flesh or the essence, the spirit/Word behind the body? I'm sure if He fell down, he would bleed - can God bleed? Why does the Bible tell us God is Spirit yet we insist Jesus is flesh? What then separates you from muslims and aboriginals saying "Atanatu - God does not use the toilet"?

How can Christians say these things and feel happy with themselves when it is stated that the "word BECAME flesh". That word was the real person and it was that word that created all things!

How hard is that to comprehend?

Joagbaje:

What irrefutable scriptures? This is Nonsense!

^Respond to the scriptures which you hold in disdain and call nonsense.

Joagbaje:

The theophanies and "christophanies " were workings of the holyspirit . He is the angel. Of his presence.

^So you are a closet Muslim who believes that the "Ruuh Qudus" is an angel. I pity you. You would rather hold on to your delusions and remain in darkness rather than come into the glorious light of the Son. Your vain attempt to reduce the true God to your level is noted.

#1. So who did Abraham see and talk to in Genesis 18. "And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant"
You can try and twist the scriptures but every time the Word of God will refute you.
#2. So who did Jacob wrestle with in Genesis 32? "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved"

Joagbaje:

The word became flesh is not the same as Jesus became flesh. There was no jesus in heaven. References to Jesus has to do with mans salvation. If you find any scripture that say otherwise about Jesus , quote it out.

No one is denying the fact that the word made flesh became Jesus. There was no person called Jesus in heaven. The word of God was part of God. And God said let there be light". Was there someones head sticking out of Gods mouth while he spoke. His word was part of him. God sends his word . To save to heal . When the word became flesh, did God loose his voice? He was still speaking from heaven , even to christ. I am also a product of Gods word.

^Several things wrong with what you posted above. An excellent example of what Image123 calls ignorance laminated.
#1. There was no Jesus in heaven?
Firstly what is the meaning of the name Jesus (Joshua)? Jehovah is Salvation. From Genesis to Revelation the Bible emphatically declares that Jehovah is Salvation. Another name for Jesus is Emmanuel (God with us). In response to people like you God through John clearly shows that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." "And the Word [Jehovah---God] was made flesh, and dwelt among us [Emmanuel]"
Secondly,  If Jesus wasn't in heaven prior to His Incarnation why did He pray thus: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Please note He doesn't say: the glory I had in thee, but rather with thee.
Like I said this is so elementary that a 5-year old can explain it to Joagbaje.

#2. You said: God sends his word . To save to heal . When the word became flesh, did God loose his voice? He was still speaking from heaven; thereby advancing the same argument that Muslims advance when told that Jesus is the Word. You reduce Jesus to a word from God and on that basis seek to claim equality with Jesus. Didn't I say you are a closet Muslim?

Joagbaje:

This just shows how much you don't really understand identification with christ. We became sin through Adam transgression. And we were destined to hell because he was mans representative.if you don't understand the doctrine of sin, you may not understand righteousness. He sinned in proxy for us.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

We did not become sin because of what we personally sinned. You can't tell God "I didn't do anything wrong" Adam sinned on our account. We were identified with him. So even if you didn't do anything bad. You were a sinner.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:  [size=14pt](in Adam)[/size]

^^I have to admit that you excel at what you do; which is to deceive the unwary. You mix truth with error. If it was plain out and out lies, you would have been rooted out long ago.
The scripture makes quite clear that the soul that sins will die. You say Adam sinned in proxy for us whereas the scripture is quite clear that "by one man sin entered into the world" and as a consequence of that all men sin. Since the verses don't say what you are trying to force them to say you added your own words by saying all men sinned in Adam. Whereas the scriptures are clear that all men inherited the inclination to sin from Adam.
"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth"
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually"

Joagbaje:

Verrry long rubbish!

^^Yup. That pretty much sums up your post.

In any case it is evident that you are worse than the devils themselves. Why so?
James 2:19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Even the devils believe that there is one God, but Joagbaje says no he is also another god.

1 John 5:7. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

@Jesus: « #187 on: Yesterday at 01:47:06 PM »
[Quote]@nopuqeater has anything been mentioned on this thread that concerns islam?[/Quote]I am from the human race. We humans like to point out falsehood, if we can. This is one of the cases. I am trying to destroy the notion that you are the true God. beating it into your sense, if I can. Especially when you cant do nothing, of your own power.

nopuqeater:

@Jesus: « #187 on: Yesterday at 01:47:06 PM »I am from the human race. We humans like to point out falsehood, if we can. This is one of the cases. I am trying to destroy the notion that you are the true God. beating it into your sense, if I can. Especially when you cant do nothing, of your own power.

Are you sure that is true of you, that you like to point out falsehood if you can? You remember that you confess to committing Asabiyyah because you say that you will not wash your dirty linen in public? Can't you remember that?

There was no Jesus in Heaven? Am i drunk or is this real?
I thought this passage referred to Jesus, maybe just perhaps it was the entanal Joagbaje. Lemme go and meditate more on John and Paul to stand a chance here.
John 6v38 For I came down from heaven , not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

nuclearboy:

@Image:

I keep telling you - very soon, you'll be called babyteeth, roforofo fighter, degenerate etc with the way you're challenging pastor chris. PLEASE don't forget you're an ordinary chritian, Paul, James and John were ordinary apostles whist joagbaje and pastor chris are "god".

Moses, Enoch and Elijah are also watching and learning from them, by the way.

You better be careful.

Nahhhh, don't worry man. God has not given us the spirit of fear. As far as i know, Joagbaje hasn't got the features of omnipresence, i don't feel him around my room. The closest he can ever dare is the status of an ominipresent gourd.
I hear the re-echoes of a pal's words "there's nothing they can't make in china".

god joagbaje has spoken - "Jesus did not exist before He became Flesh" how dare all of you argue with him.

god has also told us it was him who died on the cross and therefore was the one who saved us all

Where's newmi, mabell, fyneguy and donnie AND pastor chris when you need them?

The beauty of this all is that the world is learning the truth about these teachings and the spirit behind them now!

@babyteethimage123:

who told you joagbaje is not omniscient? have you forgotten he is christ died and risen PLUS god?


Joagbaje = Ignorance laminated, framed and displayed for all to see

blastainy, blastainy! Na you talk am o, don't let them come for you roforofoly.

Image123:
. . .  "there's nothing they can't make in china".

[Old joke alert]

One young boy in a certain part of our country was asked in primary school class: What is the opposite of "original"?

Clever and experienced as he is he replied:




Taiwan!!!

[/Old joke]

Image123:

There was no Jesus in Heaven? Am i drunk or is this real?
I thought this passage referred to Jesus, maybe just perhaps it was the entanal Joagbaje. Lemme go and meditate more on John and Paul to stand a chance here.
John 6v38 For I came down from heaven , not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

So where did you come from? From Hell?.

John 17:16
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Philippians 3:20
20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Nuclearboy.

nuclearboy:

I always seem to be fighting but this is all so easy it puzzles me how people can miss it. Jesus and the Word! Whats the difference?

Can anyone touch himself? Yep, you can touch your head or shoulder or nose or whatever! The only way YOURSELF IS EXPRESSED is when someone calls you and you answer! Who answered? YOU! ! ! You are your word! So what was Jesus? Was it the flesh or the essence, the spirit/Word behind the body? I'm sure if He fell down, he would bleed - can God bleed? Why does the Bible tell us God is Spirit yet we insist Jesus is flesh? What then separates you from muslims and aboriginals saying "Atanatu - God does not use the toilet"?

How can Christians say these things and feel happy with themselves when it is stated that the "word BECAME flesh". That word was the real person and it was that word that created all things!
How hard is that to comprehend?

Can God give birth to anything less than himself?  He gave birth to Jesus. He gave birth to me.

Who is  the God of Jesus?  = Jehovah
Who is my God?                 = Jehovah
Who is the father of Jesus ?= Jehovah
Who is my  father?            = Jehovah

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


We all eternally existed in God. We are spirits. Or let me speak for myself. I am a spirit beng and not a body. God is a spirit also. If I am created in his image ,then I'm a spirit as well. I have a physical body to function in this material realm of life. The body is not the me ( as altheia erroneously believe.). I've been chosen from the foundation of the world.I eternally existed in the father.

Let me give an illustration Here. It's like when a Toyota engine knocks, and you put in it a Benz engine. It looks like a Toyota in the body. But it's a Benz. Because without the engine the car is dead. This new engine is the new creation in christ. His spirit is from God. In exact image of the father. I may look like any ordinary man. But I am not a man.

1 Corinthians 3:3
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas[ there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


Its worthy to note here that the greek word here for "men" is  which means , a human being. We need to understand how God sees us. A Christian is not a man! . He is deity in human flesh. As we grow into his fulness, we lay aside all human appetite. Christianity is putting off humanity and putting on divinity.I'm the embodiment of God. He lives and manifest himself through me.

2 Peter 1:4
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature---. 
 

Jesus once called Peter Satan. Because satan tried to use peter to stop Jesus from his assignment .

Matthew 16:22-23
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

The same principle applies to a man that has the spirit of God in him.

Jesus was born of God, I am born of God
Jesus was born of the the word, I was born of the word too.
Jesus needed the holyspirit to function, I received the same holy spirit to function.
He was crucified, buried , defeated Satan, resurrected and his is seated at the righthand of God. Likewise me.

Everything jesus achieved  was not for himself but for me. I am not his rival. I was created in him. Iam in him . I have his glory, his power, his fulness, his life. Christ is my life. He is divine , I am divine too. Jesus is my brother.

I think that the whole issue of this thread can be resolved if you all can accept that your various understandings and ideologies are so different that you are no longer actually following the same religionism.  I know you will all fight over the word christian and who really has the right to call himself so.  It really isn't necessary. 

To be honest I find myself agreeing with Joagbaje in his last post above.  Human beings are a composite of 2 natures.  The carnal and the spiritual, which you can also call the divine.  This, I believe, is the teaching of Jesus too although some might disagree.  However the case might be it is my experience and for me experience counts for more than anything that I'll ever read in any book no matter how 'God-inspired'.

Joagbaje:



1 Corinthians 3:3
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas[ there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


Its worthy to note here that the greek word here for "men" is  which means , a human being. We need to understand how God sees us. A Christian is not a man! . He is deity in human flesh. As we grow into his fulness, we lay aside all human appetite. Christianity is putting off humanity and putting on divinity.I'm the embodiment of God. He lives and manifest himself through me.

2 Peter 1:4
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature---. 
 

This duality between Sarx and pneuma is at the heart of christianity.  Sarx gives us the carnal appetites and yes they cause strife and envy.  The spirit awakened person (born again in the spirit) will feel the tug of war between these 2 natures.  Even Islam talks about this as the Jihad between Ruuh and Nafs.  The difference between these 2 natures is very profound.  There is a certain levity in the ways of the spirit while the ways of Sarx has a very 'by force by force, it  must to . . . , and fearful ' quality to it. 

Joagbaje:

Jesus was born of God, I am born of God
Jesus was born of the the word, I was born of the word too.
Jesus needed the holyspirit to function, I received the same holy spirit to function.
He was crucified, buried , defeated Satan, resurrected and his is seated at the righthand of God. Likewise me.

I find nothing wrong with what Joagbaje says here, except maybe that by saying 'I' he is identifying fully with the spirit nature and denying the sarx which however I know that all living human beings are a composite of both natures. A Christian is as much born of a woman, of flesh, as he is of God and will thus feel and experience the influence of the fleshly appetites. 
However, Christians are literally a new birth.  A new nature come/born from God is awakened in them.  The new nature is articulated by the Holy Spirit.  All christians undergo the passion, are crucified, buried and resurrected just like Christ.

Its obvious that Jo's mind is made up, even against the scriptures. One can make the Bible read anything they want. May I remind us all that the WOF argument by Joagbaje is intellectually appealing? All humans will like to claim some deity. The Bible nowhere calls us divine, as important as the topic is!

@Joagbaje: Jesus clearly said nobody has ascended into heaven except HIM who also came down from there. If we all came down from heaven, what makes his point and mission valid? Re-examine, what does "heaven" mean? Cos God knew us before birth doesnt mean we were in heaven!


@Pastor AIO: Nobody said man does not have a spiritual as well as carnal nature. Both natures are in one corporeal body. Claiming divinity is just wrong. I will illustrate.
A king throws a lavish 1-week long banquet for his son the prince, and invites some people. Not all attend, but for all that do, they are clothed like the prince, attended to by royal hands just like the prince, and they eat and drink all that the prince and king do. A stranger would think they are all royal children, cos they have been adopted for that time. They are the prince's brethren but would it not be foolish for one of them to rise to the king's face and demand his share of the will, forgetting that he is not royalty? Thats what these people do when each one calls themselves god or divine. Dont get it twisted. What you have is a rich introduction, courtesy of Christ, into God. You are NOT Christ. You are NOT God, whatever the character case. This rich introduction to His Majesty is what made the psalmist ask "WHAT is man that you are mindful of him?" and I guess Joagbaje's response would be "Im a god!". Smh.

Joagbaje:

Nuclearboy.
Can God give birth to anything less than himself?

Yes, absolutely - like a born again man! He is less than God; he is not God and he is not "a god"!

He gave birth to Jesus. He gave birth to me.

Did God give birth to you in exactly the same way he "gave birth" to Jesus?

Who is  the God of Jesus?  = Jehovah
Who is my God?                 = Jehovah
Who is the father of Jesus ?= Jehovah
Who is my  father?            = Jehovah

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

OK, let's say true enough but is this sufficient proof that you are a god, God or "divine"?

We all eternally existed in God.

OK: would you say you existed before Adam? Second, if we are following your presumed logic here what about the following, did they also exist "eternally" in God: Satan, demons, animals etc?

We are spirits. Or let me speak for myself. I am a spirit beng and not a body. God is a spirit also. If I am created in his image ,then I'm a spirit as well. I have a physical body to function in this material realm of life. The body is not the me ( as altheia erroneously believe.). I've been chosen from the foundation of the world.I eternally existed in the father.

Indeed God is a spirit; that you too are a spirit in a body --- is that enough to make you "a god", God or "divine"?

. . . . 1 Corinthians 3:3
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas[ there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


Its worthy to note here that the greek word here for "men" is  which means , a human being. We need to understand how God sees us. A Christian is not a man! . He is deity in human flesh. As we grow into his fulness, we lay aside all human appetite. Christianity is putting off humanity and putting on divinity.I'm the embodiment of God. He lives and manifest himself through me.

What exactly is "deity"? It is funny you use "appetite"; I imagine the day would come when as a "deity" you will not need to eat food or drink anything? Or is your own type of "deity" such that cannot do without food and water?

2 Peter 1:4
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature---. 
 

First, this passage talks of promises and by the promises you might be partakers ---- essentially a future event. However, granted that the Holy Spirit now given is given to the Christian as a deposit, with fulness yet to come, yes we can say that a Christian even now is a partaker of the divine nature. But does that make  him "a god" or God? Of course, you ignore the passages before and after 2 Peter 1:4 --- which is not surprising because you even ignore the first part of the verse itself.
Verse 3

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

See, God (i.e. the Trinity not you) is the one with divine power; the purpose of the promises to make a Christian a partaker of the divine nature is for the purpose of godliness as the verse above indicates. The passages after verse 4 then lists the things which are expected: virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, charity.

Do you even know what it is to live by the Spirit? Do you know what is to always be filled by the Spirit? Is it not in part to comply with the above? Does being filled with the Spirit make you "a god", "divine" or God?

Keep deluding yourself, o thou man of the flesh!

Jesus once called Peter Satan. Because satan tried to use peter to stop Jesus from his assignment .

Matthew 16:22-23
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

The same principle applies to a man that has the spirit of God in him.

If only you could be more clear on what you are driving at --- what same principle? I'll leave this until you clarify.

Jesus was born of God, I am born of God

Even if we agree that you are born of God, as I said before, was Jesus born of God in the same way as you? I know you WoFers say Jesus was born again; please confirm whether you personally believe that Jesus was born again.

Jesus was born of the the word, I was born of the word too.

Could you explain when and how Jesus was born of "the word"; I thought He Himself was the Word?

Jesus needed the holyspirit to function, I received the same holy spirit to function.

But are you part of the Trinity and do you have the same relationship to the Holy Spirit that Jesus and the Father have?

He was crucified, buried , defeated Satan, resurrected and his is seated at the righthand of God. Likewise me.

Of course he was crucified buried and resurrected and it is elementary that we died with Him and rose with Him ---- but then what is the basis of your deluded claim that you are also seated at the right hand of God? Of course you are so presumptive as blithely to claim to know better than Jesus Himself who said to "Mother Zebedee": ". . .but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.’”

See what is recommended in one of the epistles: Col 3:1 - If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Is this not what Peter was saying above about the power given to live unto godliness ---- wherein you only lay claim to a divine nature? If you already have it, then why should you be seeking the things which are above? Why does it only say that Christ sits at the right hand of God --- why does it not say that you or anyone else is already at the right hand of the Father. I realise you WoFers have a penchant for calling things that be not as though they (already) are; but it would do you well to be patient, to realise that some of these promises are not fully realised while we are still on this earth but after translation into glory.

Everything jesus achieved  was not for himself but for me. I am not his rival. I was created in him. Iam in him . I have his glory, his power, his fulness, his life. Christ is my life. He is divine , I am divine too. Jesus is my brother.

Thanks indeed to the Lord Jesus Christ for what He has done for us; however, I really don't think you realise the full meaning of "divinity" or what it is to be "divine". To be spiritual is not necessarily to be divine.

Joagbaje, you're working wonders here by shifting the goal post, right? You said "there was no Jesus in heaven", to which i responded by quoting where Jesus said I came down from Heaven . So why are you asking me if i came from hell, so much for your devinity.

He gave birth to Jesus. He gave birth to me.

Jesus said in John 3v18 that He is the only begotten Son of God, i believe Him not you.

I eternally existed in the father.

So you were before Abraham, how many prayers have you answered today, or you never get requests? Please, share with us some of your personal experiences from eternity.

Hebrews 13v9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Pastor AIO:

I think that the whole issue of this thread can be resolved if you all can accept that your various understandings and ideologies are so different that [i]you are no longer actually following the same religion[/i]ism.

^^I guess you are right on that.

InesQor:

Nobody said man does not have a spiritual as well as carnal nature. Both natures are in one corporeal body. Claiming divinity is just wrong. I will illustrate.
A king throws a lavish 1-week long banquet for his son the prince, and invites some people. Not all attend, but for all that do, they are clothed like the prince, attended to by royal hands just like the prince, and they eat and drink all that the prince and king do. A stranger would think they are all royal children, cos they have been adopted for that time. They are the prince's brethren but would it not be foolish for one of them to rise to the king's face and demand his share of the will, forgetting that he is not royalty? Thats what these people do when each one calls themselves god or divine. Dont get it twisted. What you have is a rich introduction, courtesy of Christ, into God. You are NOT Christ. You are NOT God, whatever the character case. This rich introduction to His Majesty is what made the psalmist ask "WHAT is man that you are mindful of him?" and I guess Joagbaje's response would be "Im a god!". Smh.

^^So on point.

InesQor:

A king throws a lavish 1-week long banquet for his son the prince, and invites some people. Not all attend, but for all that do, they are clothed like the prince, attended to by royal hands just like the prince, and they eat and drink all that the prince and king do. A stranger would think they are all royal children, cos they have been adopted for that time. They are the prince's brethren but would it not be foolish for one of them to rise to the king's face and demand his share of the will, forgetting that he is not royalty? Thats what these people do when each one calls themselves god or divine. Dont get it twisted. What you have is a rich introduction, courtesy of Christ, into God. You are NOT Christ. You are NOT God, whatever the character case. This rich introduction to His Majesty is what made the psalmist ask "WHAT is man that you are mindful of him?" and I guess Joagbaje's response would be "Im a god!". Smh.

Jo's not one of the guests. He's the stranger; a half drunk beggar who looked in, got a bottle of hard liquor and in lieu of food to eat, drank it all up, went to sleep dead drunk and in the haze, dreamt up this insanity about an imaginary christ-like capability.

I don't even know where to start but I praise God- serious christians are here stating truth and dispeling this insanity? I still wonder where the fyneguys are

Joagbaje:

We all eternally existed in God. We are spirits. Or let me speak for myself. I am a spirit beng and not a body. God is a spirit also. If I am created in his image ,then I'm a spirit as well. I have a physical body to function in this material realm of life. The body is not the me ( as altheia erroneously believe.). I've been chosen from the foundation of the world.I eternally existed in the father.

^False words. Nothing but eisegesis. Eternally existed? What verse in the bible supports the above assertion? I challenge you to produce it. Men are created. They have a beginning. The scriptures are clear as to the nature of man: body, soul and spirit. A man is not a man if any of this is missing. The account in genesis is clear: God breathed his Spirit into Adam's body and Adam became a living soul. The Bible talks about the spirits of men that comes from God but does not say "Man is a spirit" but rather "God is a Spirit."

You try to make it seem that the body is an inconvenience to be done away with, forgetting that the redemption of man encompasses body, spirit and soul.
Gen 2:7. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
1 Cor 15:47. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Joagbaje:

Let me give an illustration Here. It's like when a Toyota engine knocks, and you put in it a Benz engine. It looks like a Toyota in the body. But it's a Benz. Because without the engine the car is dead. This new engine is the new creation in christ. His spirit is from God. In exact image of the father. I may look like any ordinary man. But I am not a man.

^^Your analogy pulls the carpet from under your feet. Whether a Toyota or Benz engine, the vehicle still remains a Car.. You look like an ordinary man because you remain a man and you will die as a man.

The Bible describes the new creation in Christ as the new man not gods:
Eph 2:15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace
Eph 4:24. And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Col 3:10. And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

So tying it all together: Just as at the beginning God breathed His Spirit into Adam and Adam became a living soul, so similarly in the new birth/creation, the last Adam---a quickening (i.e. making alive) spirit (Jesus Christ) in us=>new man.
1 Cor 15:47-49. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
The promise of God is that we shall bear the image of the Heavenly Man: Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit has been given to us as a deposit guaranteeing that promise.

Another point that escapes you by your false assertion that you are not a man is that by so saying you deny that Jesus was fully Man. The scriptures demolish your claim.

Joagbaje:

Its worthy to note here that the greek word here for "men" is  which means , a human being. We need to understand how God sees us. A Christian is not a man! . He is deity in human flesh. As we grow into his fulness, we lay aside all human appetite. Christianity is putting off humanity and putting on divinity.I'm the embodiment of God. He lives and manifest himself through me.

^^What a silly statement: so human being means something different from the generic man? God sees us as men and women ransomed and reconciled to Him through the precious Blood of the Lamb. "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" He sees us as the purified Bride of His Son. ". . .Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." Jesus Christ is Deity in human flesh not Joagbaje: "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." I certainly know it isn't Joagbaje that was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, preached unto the Gentiles. It is Jesus.

Joagbaje:

I am divine too.

^^You are not divine. You are just a poor deluded man.

Some of you guys try to pity God and give an impression that someone is trying to steal Gods position . Go back to Gods original purpose. He had this truth in mind for us.

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Man was born to be like God on the earth.   god wants us to be like him. Is not complaining. If you can't accept Gods plan . Don't criticise me for daring to accept it.

Adam was in the his process of growth in God. The process was not yet complete. The complete process was to be in the eventual eating of the fruit. Which Satan made him eat in disobedience at the wrong time. The fruit contains mans perfection. But he fell out because he ate it prematurely .

Genesis 3:5
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods (Elohim), knowing good and evil.

The tree was not an evil tree . It contain knowledge. But it was not yet time for adam to eat of it.

God didn't deny what Satan said.

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Jesus completed the process for us.

John 17:22-24
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.


John 17:14
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
 
If it was blasphemy for man to be god why would Jesus justify such claim by quoting psalm 82:6

John 10:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Look back at verse 33 again, ---" 35 If he called them gods, "unto whom the word of God came" .  It is the word that makes a man god. Because the word is God.

What assured Jesus that the desciples were ready for the next level in union was the same word coming to them.

John 17:14
14[b] I have given them thy word[/b]; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


We are born of the same word of God. Christian are more than humans. We have divinity as a nature.