Kobojunkie:

India (give or take 3 years). Do you really have a valid point to make on this? You do realize you are still loading us up with more excuses?

Omenani:

Really? Is India your example? India may be the world's largest democracy, but it is not very advanced and it still has a lot of problems. Just ask the Sikh of the Punjab Region. You do realize that your argument is null and void. Try again. . .

Kilode?!:

I quite agree. A worst scenario than the present realities will be one in which a bunch of lunatics motivated by money throws up a silly pseudo-revolution without any deep and workable ideology behind it. It will be years of foolish bloodletting.

I propose a more subtle, non-violent ideological battle for the hearts and minds of Nigerians, something you can contribute to within your own sphere of influence till we meet up in the larger public space to push for wider changes. I'm hopeful.

Kobojunkie:

India is currently ranked one of the world's best democracy as well. It is not about the number of flashy buildings and rivers, but about the government and it's operations. So again, why the excuses for our continued passive approach to getting our government right NOW?

Omenani:

India is ranked 84 out of 180 countries surveyed in Transparency International’s 2009 Corruption Perceptions Index. Their electoral system depends on “black money” obtained though tax evasion and other means. In addition, politicians and civil servants are regularly caught accepting bribes or engaging in other corrupt behavior, even though a great deal of the corruption in India goes unpunished.

Vote buying is also a major problem in India. However, I will concede the fact that India does have free elections.

No, one is making excuses, I am just saying you shouldn't expect much, because we already knew about this corruption. Nothing happened then, and nothing will happen now even though everything is out in the open. It will be the regular business as usual.

Nigerian people have nothing to blame but ourselves.

Ade2K8:



Yes indeed - more civic involvement by more of us is sorely needed. Too often, our demonstrations peter out so quickly. Gotta love those guys in Bangkok; maybe one day. we'll occupy Abuja airports and NASS building and never leave, just rotate people in and out. I dare to dream,    These so-called legislators have no fear or regard for  us at all.

Ade2K8:

@ Kilode,

No argument. Do keep in mind though, that at polling time, good plans and intentions can be highjacked by raw thuggery. We must also have a plan for the actual election day - to ensure that the leaders we get are actually the ones the people voted for.

Do we really think companies are here to change our country for us? They are business entities with selfish interests.

It's the duty of the government to checkmate any nonsense behaviors by individuals or companies, but when the government is composed of crooks, what do we expect?

I know someone who used to be a diplomat and at a time served in Cuba. He told me there was a time some Cuban government officials showed him a bit of their monitoring of Nigerian activities. These Wikileaks releases remind us once again of how easy it is for other governments to monitor us including our politicians. I wonder if you know how easy it would be for Cubans to infiltrate and perhaps even start a riot. I suspect that even South Africans, maybe even Ghana as well, monitor us.

Thus we can appreciate further why Nigerians are very much disregarded all over the world. Our leaders, politicians, armed forces, business men and women, civil servants, schools, contractors, those who travel out for holidays and launder our funds, even all of us who have been corrupt have so much brazenly dragged our name in the mud. Yet it seems they've been too dull to realize they are being watched.

So, why won't some people of other races continue to see the black man and indeed Nigerians as silly?

ROSSIKE:

ahf said:

Very poignant point. But something we fail to realise is that That inspiration for crookedness and graft, comes from us, the people.

The other day on one thread some guys were blowing hot and cold over ''our corrupt, useless leaders'', following which I threw them a poser, ie what would be your reaction if you got a phone call stating that your brother had just been appointed Vice President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria?

Would you not drop everything you're doing and start jubilating?

Why would you be jubilating?

You weren't the one appointed to the office, were you?

So why are you jubilating?

Isn't it because you believe ''your time has come'' to live large?

To own several houses.

A selection of top of the range cars.

Bank accounts screaming millions of dollars.

Even when your brother, as Vice Pres, fails to ''deliver'' the ''dividends'' of his appointment to you, your siblings etc, you will turn on HIM, and call him a fool for not 'utilizing his position' to make you a millionaire.

His own children and wife will scorn him.

The elders in his village will dismiss him as the fool who spat out a juicy morsel the gods had placed in his mouth.

Your kinsmen would adduce your honesty to a curse placed on you by your enemies.

So, WE are to blame for the crookedness of our leaders before the likes of Shell.

Our values are warped.

Be truthful. How many of us can sit here and say that they'd be in an office, say some NNPC office or something, on 100,000 Naira a month. Someone from Shell walks in, and offers to pay $5 million into your account just to undercount the number of barrels they shipped for the preceding month?


All they need is your signature.

Nothing else?

How many of us can sit here with a straight face and say, I'll tell him no?

Our problem is really very simple. We just love money too much.

We need to reduce our love for money.  

Kilode?!:

You are right bro, but that is why It's a process not an event. I will always fault the lazy opposition and so called progressives we have in Nigeria i.e ACN, Save Nigeria etc for treating opposition politics and election like an event -anyway what do I expect. It is a process that needs to start early and involve better propaganda and aim for people's hearts and minds. I'm more interested in a broader intellectual awakening than a particular election though.

Raw thuggery will always attempt to hijack because there is a big vacuum of inaction for them to occupy. Even those thugs are part of the target, we will not convince everybody but we need to get more people. It will not work if we are simply aiming for the next election, it will work better if we have a long term aim in mind.

ROSSIKE:

amor4ce

People like you always use anything you see to bash ''the black race''. Everything that happens must be ''evidence'' that something is wrong with ''the black race''. Do you never get tired of that stuff?

Do you really think multinationals only infiltrate black governments?

The US is the most infiltrated government in history.

The British, French etc are not too far behind.

The likes of South Korea, Iraq, Germany, Malaysia and co are not just infiltrated, but actually have US forces based on their soil and calling the shots almost directly.

Their politicians are mere fronts for the corporations.

That they enjoy high living standards serves the purpose of the infiltrators, or it wouldn't have happened.

And NO, Nigerians are not ''disregarded all over the world''. That has NOT been my experience or that of the thousands of responsible, law abiding Nigerians who populate the globe.

Nigerians abroad will tell you they are treated BETTER and with MORE RESPECT than other Africans/blacks  in their personal interraction with foreigners. I've experienced this myself.

So think of something better to do than imputing racist connotations on what is in fact a corrupt global network.

Omenani:

India is ranked 84 out of 180 countries surveyed in Transparency International’s 2009 Corruption Perceptions Index. Their electoral system depends on “black money” obtained though tax evasion and other means. In addition, politicians and civil servants are regularly caught accepting bribes or engaging in other corrupt behavior, even though a great deal of the corruption in India goes unpunished.

Vote buying is also a major problem in India. However, I will concede the fact that India does have free elections.

Kobojunkie:

You asked if there was evidence that it is possible to get Democracy right, I gave you more than 2 examples where it has been done.

Essentially, you excuse that rome was not built in one day and that Nigeria is still young in the game is OUT THE WINDOW at this point.

Transparency international does not have to rank India/Indonesia/South Africa at the top of the list for to establish that these democracies are so many years ahead of us.
In fact, the examples go to show that we do not have to get it PERFECT to at least get it right. What is STOPPING US, that remains the question.

amor4ce:

Would it be "safe" to recognize some sort of conflict between our cultural traditions and how they evolved over time on one hand, and democracy on the other? I ask this because of the attitude of respect for elders, non-questioning of elders, and placing pride/reputation before ethics and character.

amor4ce:

Kobojunkie, so the laughing bug has got to you! Me too I dey laugh small o.

On a serious note, at times it seems there is so much chaos in different directions going on within this country that I often wonder whether a anarchy is just a question of when.

Ade2K8:

You are an individual after my own heart; hopefully we can get like-minded people to collaborate over the long haul and get Nigeria on the move. I couldn't agree more that ACN and co have been abject failures as the so-called opposition.

Kobojunkie:

I won't disagree with you. It almost seems ,now more than before, that we are going in the wrong direction. The whole world is plagued with differences, so I don't see why ours should always be used as reason for non progress.

ROSSIKE:

ahf said:

Very poignant point. But something we fail to realise is that That inspiration for crookedness and graft, comes from us, the people.

The other day on one thread some guys were blowing hot and cold over ''our corrupt, useless leaders'', following which I threw them a poser, ie what would be your reaction if you got a phone call stating that your brother had just been appointed Vice President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria?

Would you not drop everything you were doing and start jubilating?

Why would you be jubilating?

You weren't the one appointed to the post, were you?

So why are you jubilating?

Isn't it because you believe ''your time has come'' to live large?

To own several houses.

A selection of top of the range cars.

Bank accounts screaming millions of dollars.

Even when your brother, as Vice Pres, fails to ''deliver'' the ''dividends'' of his appointment to you, your siblings etc, you will turn on HIM, and call him a fool for not 'utilizing his position' to make you a millionaire.

His own children and wife will scorn him.

The elders in his village will dismiss him as the fool who spat out the juicy morsel the gods had placed in his mouth.

His kinsmen would blame his honesty on a curse placed on him by his enemies.

So, WE are to blame for the crookedness of our leaders before the likes of Shell.

Our values are warped.

Be truthful. How many of us can sit here and say that they'd be in an office, say some NNPC office or something, on 100,000 Naira a month. Someone from Shell walks in, and offers to pay $5 million into your account just to undercount the number of barrels they shipped for the preceding month?


All they need is your signature.

Nothing else!


And $5 million in your account.

Not paid in tomorrow or next week, but this afternoon.


How many of us can sit here with a straight face and say, I'll tell him no?

Our problem is really very simple. We just love money too much.

We need to reduce our love for money. 

So, you are sensible, ROSSIKE? Good one from you, man.
You made some salient points.

What you didn't address is the issue of leadership. This is where leadership comes in. Besides, checks and balances.

We are not asking for 0% corruption in Nigeria, what we want is moderation. Even the West is not corruption-free.

Serve the people and let the rule of law be entrenched. Be a torch-bearer. Lead by example and leave a lasting and enduring legacy of service to humanity. The is the main hallmark of a good leader

ROSSIKE:

ola olabiy said:

Leadership? What can kind of leadership? You do realise that the main reason the US and co promote 'democracy' around the developing world is so as to make their governments easier to infiltrate? I think we need to redefine what 'leadership' means in the first place. Our entire political system must be overhauled and replaced by a genuinely homegrown system that ensures the interests of the people are paramount, and remain operational irrespective of who is 'in power' at any given point in time.


GEJ will argue he makes a good leader by your criteria. 

Leadership? What can kind of leadership? You do realise that the main reason the US and co promote 'democracy' around the developing world is so as to make their governments easier to infiltrate? I think we need to redefine what 'leadership' means in the first place. Our entire political system must be overhauled and replaced by a genuinely homegrown system that ensures the interests of the people are paramount, and remain operational irrespective of who is 'in power' at any given point in time.


GEJ will argue he makes a good leader by your criteria. 


ROSSIKE, learn how to comprehend, ok?
Leadership doesn't mean DEMOCRACY. A leader is selfless, proactive, public-oriented and pro-masses.

The system of government matters not.

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GAS ISSUES
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¶6. (C) The Ambassador said that the Mission was looking at performance measures for the economy, i.e. the linkage between the country's electricity output and gross domestic product (GDP). The Ambassador shared that the Mission feels strongly that gas for feedstock is the key to Nigeria's power production, which is only about 2,800 average megawatts for a country of 140 million people. Pickard agreed and added that the U.S. got it wrong on its domestic natural gas policies, which it took over 20 years to sort out. So it is not surprising that Nigeria has it wrong at this point. She said there is not adequate infrastructure for gas. Gathering plants and pipelines to carry the product to the power plants still have to be financed and built. The Nigeria Independent Power Projects (NIPP) were located where there is no gas and no infrastructure. In addition, the international oil companies were coerced into building a power plant each, something they have no expertise in, and they are scrambling to deliver gas to these plants.

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HOPES THAT OIL NATIONALISM CAN BE TEMPERED
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¶8. (C) The Ambassador asked how comfortable Shell was with the new appointment of Dr. Rilwanu Lukman as Minister of Petroleum Resources, and the appointment of Mohammad Sanusi Barkindo as the new NNPC GMD. Pickard sees the nationalism card cooling with the removal of former NNPC GMD Yar'Adua, given that new Minister of Petroleum Lukman is more "pragmatic" and will hold sway over deputy Minister Ajumogobia.(Note: Ajumogobia's technical assistant told EconOff in a meeting on January 14, 2009 that the State Minister was focusing on Gas, since before the mass cabinet change he was State Minster of Petroleum, with a separate State Minster for Gas.) End Note. She said she was also okay with NNPC chief Barkindo. She has worked with Barkindo several times over the past few decades, especially when they were both working climate change. She said Barkindo led Nigeria's technical delegation to climate change negotiations that produced the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC)and the Kyoto protocol to UNFCCC during while he served on its Bureau at various times. She indicated that although his undergraduate studies were in political science, he obtained his MBA from Southeastern University in Washington DC and did postgraduate work in petroleum economics and management at Oxford University. Although she also said terms like nationalistic and Chavez she however said that she thought he could be steered in the right direction on the petroleum sector.

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COMMENT
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¶9. (C) Although Pickard clearly seems frustrated with the way things are going in the maritime security, oil sector legislation, and corruption which affects Shell's bottom line, it was useful to hear that she has hopes for the new Petroleum Minister and NNPC chief. Septel on the Ambassador's meeting with new Petroleum Minister Lukman will address many of these same issues.

¶10. (U) This cable was coordinated with Consulate Lagos.

SANDERS