Kobojunkie:

Again, Shell and so many other oil companies you are here lambasting ALREADY contribute to the Nigerian economy, they have contributed to community development projects and pay billions already to your so called development projects. Stop prescribing the same solution to the problem -- IT IS NOT WORKING. None of your suggestions are new in this case - they have all been applied and shown not to work, why? Because the problem remains GOVERNMENT and GOVERNMENT ALONE. Focus on tackling with the main issues.

That is what we do more than anything else!

Just because it's not working doesn't mean they have to go scot free for their actions. . . how can that not make sense to you??
Feels like I'm speaking to a wall here.

I do not care how much they've put into our economy, they've done sumn wrong and they should be punished for it.
This is not some strategic roadmap or anything, it's simple common sense.

As I said, will the UK Government consider letting Sir Alan Sugar evade taxes because he creates jobs??

eldee (m)
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Re: Wikileaks Cables: Shell's Grip On Nigerian State Revealed
« #188 on: Today at 12:16:31 PM »
Quote from: Pataki on Today at 11:54:28 AM
Kobojunkie is nothing but an electronic junkie. She argues like as if she is being paid by the USG  to do so. Never stable in her arguments.

It's shocking, how can an learned person say this . . .'What about the over a billion dollars these companies have already been caused to pay to build the communities and schools?'.

It's like saying . . . 'Because Warren Buffet creates jobs in America, he should go scot-free if he's charged with tax-evasion'.
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And then the twister game begins !!! ROFLMAO!!! Again, Typical!!!

Has anyone on here so far said anything about allowing Shell continue as is? If reading is a problem, I suggest you go back and learn how it is done.

All I have asked is that you stop offering up solutions that have ALREADY been shown not to work why? Because these solutions do not tackle the main problems in our system that continue to create and give power to individual companies like Shell, the Dangotes, and so many others out there.

eldee:

J[b]ust because it's not working doesn't mean they have to go scot free for their actions[/b]. . . how can that not make sense to you??
Feels like I'm speaking to a wall here.

I do not care how much they've put into our economy, they've done sumn wrong and they should be punished for it.
This is not some strategic roadmap or anything, it's simple common sense.

As I said, will the UK Government consider letting Sir Alan Sugar evade taxes because he creates jobs??

Has anyone even mentioned anything about them going scot free?

I mean what is the heck is with you going on and on about non-issues here? Why do you find it hard focusing on this discussion without needing to inject non-issues?

What part of "You are too late with your solution profering there because that has already been applied and has yet to solve the problem"do you not get? 

GenBuhari:

QUESTIONS:

DO WE BLAME THE WEST OR SHELL?

OR

DO WE BLAME OURSELVES?

I am surprised but not shocked.

This is supposed to have been expected in a mono economy like ours, relying so heavily on crude oil exports. I think we should be thinking of how to leave this mess and move on stronger in the way forward.

The way forward is to reduce the lucrative nature of politics. A law should be passed to make the highest government official earn no more than twice the minimum wage. NLC has a major role to play. They are the closest to the voice of the people. When this law is passed, we won't have square pegs in round holes anymore. Only patriotic Nigerians truly interested in service will go for political offices. The next major step is to increase our production levels from sub zero.

Won't it be really interesting if we had 40 other products we export, if each of them generates more revenue than crude oil?

maro23:

I am surprised but not shocked.

This is supposed to have been expected in a mono economy like ours, relying so heavily on crude oil exports. I think we should be thinking of how to leave this mess and move on stronger in the way forward.

The way forward is to reduce the lucrative nature of politics. A law should be passed to make the highest government official earn no more than twice the minimum wage. NLC has a major role to play. They are the closest to the voice of the people. When this law is passed, we won't have square pegs in round holes anymore. Only patriotic Nigerians truly interested in service will go for political offices. The next major step is to increase our production levels from sub zero.

Won't it be really interesting if we had 40 other products we export, if each of them generates more revenue than crude oil?

I am not certain how you think this has to do with how much our politicians are paid.

Nigeria is not the only mono economy out there. Countries like Saudi Arabia depend to a great deal on oil, yet they have far more control over the situation than we do. So, I don't see how putting the blame all with the oil companies, for the umpteenth time, will help solve anything. The one factor that has remained same in all these decades is our Government's incompetent approach to handling it's duties.

Kobojunkie:

Has anyone even mentioned anything about them going scot free?

I mean what is the heck is with you going on and on about non-issues here? Why do you find it hard focusing on this discussion without needing to inject non-issues?

What part of "You are too late with your solution profering there because that has already been applied and has yet to solve the problem"do you not get? 

As I said, I didn't read the roadmap you wrote on how to change the mentality of Nigerian leaders and how to rid them of their corruption, but I do know that the most important to do in this case is to step up the sanctions we've applied before now.
You don't need a honest government to stop yourself from being slapped in the face.

Now if you're going to go into one of your 'I have a dream' speeches, then please don't quote me and say 'Nigerians' without actually saying anything else that actually makes sense.

Kobojunkie:

I am not certain how you think this has to do with how much our politicians are paid.

Nigeria is not the only mono economy out there. Countries like Saudi Arabia depend to a great deal on oil, yet they have far more control over the situation than we do. So, I don't see how putting the blame all with the oil companies, for the umpteenth time, will help solve anything. The one factor that has remained same in all these decades is our Government's incompetent approach to handling it's duties.

I quite agree with you, there is no point putting all the blame on the oil companies. In fact I never blamed the oil companies. You are right the incompetence of the govt. is the major problem.

That been said, I don't think you really understood my post. If being a political office holder is no more lucrative, then greedy incompetent politicians will have to look else where. When this happens we'd have a functioning powerful govt. So you see, I think we are saying the same thing.

maro23:

I am surprised but not shocked.

This is supposed to have been expected in a mono economy like ours, relying so heavily on crude oil exports. I think we should be thinking of how to leave this mess and move on stronger in the way forward.

The way forward is to reduce the lucrative nature of politics. A law should be passed to make the highest government official earn no more than twice the minimum wage. NLC has a major role to play. They are the closest to the voice of the people.  When this law is passed, we won't have square pegs in round holes anymore. Only patriotic Nigerians truly interested in service will go for political offices. The next major step is to increase our production levels from sub zero.

Won't it be really interesting if we had 40 other products we export, if each of them generates more revenue than crude oil?

Considering our population figures and our production levels (we are about 4 times the people in Saudi and I think we don't produce as much crude oil as they do), I think we have no business being a mono economy. I'm guessing that if SArabia had more options they certainly won't be a mono economy. Let's not forget that most of Saudi Arabia is desert.

It's no use playing the blaming game with no authority to punish. What I'm trying to do hear is sensitize people on the way forward. I'd repeat the question I asked earlier

maro23:



Won't it be really interesting if we had 40 other products we export, if each of them generates more revenue than crude oil?

eldee:

As I said, I didn't read the roadmap you wrote on how to change the mentality of Nigerian leaders and how to rid them of their corruption, but I do know that the most important to do in this case is to step up the sanctions we've applied before now.
You don't need a honest government to stop yourself from being slapped in the face.

Now if you're going to go into one of your 'I have a dream' speeches, then please don't quote me and say 'Nigerians' without actually saying anything else that actually makes sense.

I do not believe in changing the mentality of Nigerian leaders, neither do I believe in the disney dream of ridding the world of corruption. So I am sorry, I cannot help you there.

I do know for a fact that your so-called Sanctions idea has been tried, and I do not see the SENSE in solving the problem by increasing the amount these companies donate to development of communities and the nation. Rather than continuing to pushing about this same, again, I ask that you actually do some investigative work to understand why your idea is not new and has not worked before continuing to request we do the same yet again.

I don't have a dream for you and I don't believe in that crap either so please STICK TO DISCUSSING THE TOPIC, what I do know is that the approach you have taken to this debate is common place -- you get the same at most every beer palour/cyber cafe you pass. It is this BLAME THEM AND THEM ALONE mentality and No, it has not worked for us in the last 4 decades, why will it work/help us now.

maro23:

I quite agree with you, there is no point putting all the blame on the oil companies. In fact I never blamed the oil companies. You are right the incompetence of the govt. is the major problem.

That been said, I don't think you really understood my post. If being a political office holder is no more lucrative, then greedy incompetent politicians will have to look else where. When this happens we'd have a functioning powerful govt. So you see, I think we are saying the same thing.
Considering our population figures and our production levels (we are about 4 times the people in Saudi and I think we don't produce as much crude oil as they do), I think we have no business being a mono economy. I'm guessing that if SArabia had more options they certainly won't be a mono economy. Let's not forget that most of Saudi Arabia is desert.

It's no use playing the blaming game with no authority to punish. What I'm trying to do hear is sensitize people on the way forward. I'd repeat the question I asked earlier  

I do agree that our politicians are being paid more than they are worth. I just do not see that as being part this particular problem. It is possible for a well-paid politician to do the right thing, even when Oil companies are involved. I am of the mind that many of those in the pockets of the Oil companies do so, not because they are being paid so much but out of greed, and I doubt reducing their pay will help the situation.

Kobojunkie:

I do not believe in changing the mentality of Nigerian leaders, neither do I believe in the disney dream of ridding the world of corruption. So I am sorry, I cannot help you there.

I do know for a fact that your so-called Sanctions idea has been tried, and I do not see the SENSE in solving the problem by increasing the amount these companies donate to development of communities and the nation. Rather than continuing to pushing about this same, again, I ask that you actually do some investigative work to understand why your idea is not new and has not worked before continuing to request we do the same yet again.

I don't have a dream for you and I don't believe in that crap either so please STICK TO DISCUSSING THE TOPIC, what I do know is that the approach you have taken to this debate is common place -- you get the same at most every beer palour/cyber cafe you pass. It is this BLAME THEM AND THEM ALONE mentality and No, it has not worked for us in the last 4 decades, why will it work/help us now.

So basically you have nothing reasonable to say and your 'Nigerians' comment is the best thing you can come up with??

The key words "mental capacity, greediness and patriotism"

Kobojunkie:

I do agree that our politicians are being paid more than they are worth. I just do not see that as being part this particular problem. It is possible for a well-paid politician to do the right thing, even when Oil companies are involved. I am of the mind that many of those in the pockets of the Oil companies do so, not because they are being paid so much but out of greed, and I doubt reducing their pay will help the situation.

I think you'd agree that a lot of greedy people are in politics because of its huge financial rewards. I also think you'd agree that if this benefits where removed, they'd consider other ways to satisfy their greed. And lastly, I think you'd agree that if we had several other national export generating as much revenue as oil, then oil companies won't be as influential and arrogant.

We need the right leader to stir us out of this mess. And as long as politics remains a lucrative venture, so many greedy people will continue to contest. What we all want is true patriotism. I don't see how it's still patriotic if so much money is involved.

maro23:

I think you'd agree that a lot of greedy people are in politics because of its huge financial rewards.

Unfortunately, Yes!

maro23:

I also think you'd agree that if this benefits where removed, they'd consider other ways to satisfy their greed. And lastly, I think you'd agree that if we had several other national export generating as much revenue as oil, then oil companies won't be as influential and arrogant.

I agree but I think I would rather we accept for now that Oil is what we have now and maybe for the longest time to come.

maro23:

We need the right leader to stir us out of this mess. And as long as politics remains a lucrative venture, so many greedy people will continue to contest. What we all want is true patriotism. I don't see how it's still patriotic if so much money is involved.

I don’t believe in right leaders, I believe more in people doing the right thing.  Making politics non-lucrative might in the end work against us because the intelligent minds may choose instead to pursue private sector work than applying their skills to help in nation building. It is obvious our politicians are more thieves and dullards than intelligent professionals currently, so I don't see how making it less lucrative, as in, poor man's work will help the situation either.

Kobojunkie:

I do not believe in changing the mentality of Nigerian leaders, neither do I believe in the disney dream of ridding the world of corruption. So I am sorry, I cannot help you there.

I do know for a fact that your so-called Sanctions idea has been tried, and I do not see the SENSE in solving the problem by increasing the amount these companies donate to development of communities and the nation. Rather than continuing to pushing about this same, again, I ask that you actually do some investigative work to understand why your idea is not new and has not worked before continuing to request we do the same yet again.

I don't have a dream for you and I don't believe in that crap either so please STICK TO DISCUSSING THE TOPIC, what I do know is that the approach you have taken to this debate is common place -- you get the same at most every beer palour/cyber cafe you pass. It is this BLAME THEM AND THEM ALONE mentality and No, it has not worked for us in the last 4 decades, why will it work/help us now.

u r begining to piss me off u shell agent damn house nigger

9jarukus:

u r begining to piss me off u shell agent damn house nigger

Grow a brain!

Kobojunkie,

Madam Do Nothing, Hang Assange. Wave the Stars and Stripes, Sing America land of the Brave. Protect the IOC's, what can we do without them!. Take 1 Bud for my head.

[size=16pt]Long Live Wikileaks. Love Live Julian Assange. 21 Gbosas to you.[/size]

Kobojunkie:

I don’t believe in right leaders, I believe more in people doing the right thing.  Making politics non-lucrative might in the end work against us because the intelligent minds may choose instead to pursue private sector work than applying their skills to help in nation building. It is obvious our politicians are more thieves and dullards than intelligent professionals currently, so I don't see how making it less lucrative, as in, poor man's work will help the situation either.

When a level of success is reached, then it might not be so useful to have a leader. You might not need a driver when you've reached the promised destination. But in a country where majority of the people are living below the poverty line, right leaders are needed. The masses don't have access to the crude oil, they don't have access to moneys that can effect the change that we all desire.

Making political office less lucrative doesn't make it a poor man's job. It only personalizes the service. It is honorable to serve one's country regardless of the monetary benefits.

maro23:

I think you'd agree that a lot of greedy people are in politics because of its huge financial rewards. I also think you'd agree that if this benefits where removed, they'd consider other ways to satisfy their greed. And lastly, I think you'd agree that if we had several other national export generating as much revenue as oil, then oil companies won't be as influential and arrogant.

We need the right leader to stir us out of this mess. And as long as politics remains a lucrative venture, so many greedy people will continue to contest. What we all want is true patriotism. I don't see how it's still patriotic if so much money is involved.

I agree. If by "Lucrative" you mean -a way to become a Millionare/Billionaire, then I agree.

We need to make Public service less attractive to those who seek Wealth and financial freedom from it. They should go start a business if they are that keen on becoming wealthy. We actually need them in Business if they like money that much.

Public service and Policy making should be for those who are more concerned about pushing ideologies/policies -Nation building ideologies or policies- than they are about making money for themselves in Government.

Politics will remain attractive to those people even if they earn only a living wage from it, they can make money out of office if they are financially smart enough  

I actually will propose that Senators and Representatives do not earn more than a Minimum wage sitting allowance until Nigeria breaks into the TOP 10 economy in the world. if you are more interested about financial freedom then go start a company!

Candy Crowley of CNN was asking Former Florida Governor Jeb Bush about his presidential ambition the other day and he replied thus;

"I really have to stay focused on this goal of achieving some financial independence, financial security for my family," Bush said. Asked again later, Bush offered an almost verbatim response

Candy asked twice and Jeb Bush replied the same, That is a man Who realizes that he operates under a system that will not let him become a Billionaire in Public service, is Jeb bush a saint? Hell no! but he knows he's got to make his millions from private ventures -if he wants money- as opposed to getting rich in office.

Unlike David Mark, OBJ, IBORI or ODILI who are probably richer than a CEO of any Nigerian Bluechip company just because they got elected to office, even GEJ who reportedly declared about N300Million, a former Lecturer, Former NDDC director, former Governor. I mean 300M! c'mon people!


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/-1-2-republican-joe.html

What we should be asking are who are these people in the ministries that have sold many Nigerians birthright. The oil companies played their role, but it was Nigerians who sold themselves to them.

9jarukus:

u r begining to piss me off u shell agent damn house nigger

Kobojunkie, House Nigger! .

Now there's a thought

@Seun, Where do you get these from? You counter the argument of one of these and BOOM, a stalker is born. they follow you around insulting themselves like brainless i-diots unable to get over their self issues long enough to accept that it is OK for someone else to have an opposing view. This is really bad for politics!

Kobojunkie:

@Seun, Where do you get these from? You counter the argument of one of these and BOOM, a stalker is born. they follow you around insulting themselves like brainless i-diots unable to get over their self issues long enough to accept that it is OK for someone else to have an opposing view. This is really bad for politics!

dude i really dont get ur points are saying that we should do nothing but just hope and pray everything will be ok on it's own

I am, and continue to be, one of those who believe that we foolishly blame the West for problems that are 99.99% our own making. People are angry at Shell for planting moles in strategic ministries in Nigeria and God only knows what else they're up to. If you see the landscape as a "battlefield", made particularly more so in the chaos that is Nigeria, it's a perfectly logical move. Afterall, it's our First Lady, govt secretaries and AG (!!!) asking for bribes without risk of consequence. It's our own late, "incorruptible" president in cahoots with the so-called Mr Fix-it (Dahiru Mangal). The embassy officials have a "contact" who happily avails them of all the going-ons in govt offices, at least those he's privy to. I'm actually surprised they need him; I'm surprised ALL relevant govt offices have not been thoroughly bugged (or maybe it's just so we don't think they've done so). Where is our SSS (a name curiously close to the Waffen SS, but I digress). Oh yes, they're too busy harassing the general populace at every turn. And probably waiting impatiently in line to access their own "share".

The tip of the iceberg is what we see in Shell's success in running circles around us like the self-flagellating buffoons we are. The contest is between citizens of an organized state and the chaos and thoughtlessness that is our dear homeland.  The real problem (and shame) of Nigeria in particular, and Africa at large, is that we are a fundamentally immature people. We are unwilling to sacrifice for our country: we are unable to put ethnic and religious differences aside long enough to create a strong and fairly free center that can protect all our interests (even if somewhat  imperfectly as all countries have some problems); instead we tear each other apart like beasts and are stunned when saner, more methodical people (who also have internal differences) take advantage.  Germany, Britain, the U.S., indeed all Western countries, are countries created by men of the same color (like we are also of one color), usually from different regions of the same real estate (like we also are from different regions of the same country). They had civil wars, like we've had, have Protestants and/or Catholics (yes, we have an added flavor of Islam, but so what). They usually but not always came together voluntarily, but a fair center smoothed such issues out.  

The second real problem is what that jackass IBB is purported to have said - we are intellectually lazy. Our military personnel are constantly running off to Sandhurst, our cops have to be trained by Indians or this or that country, our ministires have to go to Singapore or wherever to see how they pick their noses over there. Why can't the leaders in these institutions devise a credible training plan? But no, estacode is too juicy. Instead, we "re-brand"! If it weren't so tragic, it might actually be funny. If I were in the movie industry, I'd make a movie  -  "Ganstaland - Re-brand this"

^^^^Thank you !


_{. . . waiting for the intellectually lazy brains to accuse you of being a SHELL lackey since you attempt to cause them to use their brains more critically than they are used to doing  . . . ROFLMAO!!}

Ade2K8:

I am, and continue to be, one of those who believe that we foolishly blame the West for problems that are 99.99% our own making. People are angry at Shell for planting moles in strategic ministries in Nigeria and God only knows what else they're up to. If you see the landscape as a "battlefield", made particularly more so in the chaos that is Nigeria, it's a perfectly logical move. Afterall, it's our First Lady, govt secretaries and AG (!!!) asking for bribes without risk of consequence. It's our own late, incorruptible  president in cahoots with the so-called Mr Fix-it (Dahiru Mangal). The embassy officials have a "contact" who happily avails them of all the going-ons in govt offices, at least those he's privy to. I'm actually surprised they need him; I'm surprised ALL relevant govt offices have not been thoroughly bugged (or maybe it's just so we don't think they've done so). Where is our SSS (a name curiously close to the Waffen SS, but I digress). Oh yes, they're too busy harassing the general populace at every turn. And probably waiting impatiently in line to access their own "share".

The tip of the iceberg is what we see in Shell's success in running circles around us like the self-flagellating buffoons we are. The contest is between citizens of an organized state and the chaos and thoughtlessness that is our dear homeland.  The real problem (and shame) of Nigeria in particular, and Africa at large, is that we are a fundamentally immature people. We are unwilling to sacrifice for our country: we are unable to put ethnic and religious differences aside long enough to create a strong and fairly free center that can protect all our interests (even if somewhat  imperfectly as all countries have some problems); instead we tear each other apart like beasts and are stunned when saner, more methodical people (who also have internal differences) take advantage.  Germany, Britain, the U.S., indeed all Western countries, are countries created by men of the same color (like we are also of one color), usually from different regions of the same real estate (like we also are from different regions of the same country). They had civil wars, like we've had, had Protestants and/or Catholics (yes, we have an added flavor of Islam, but so what). They ususally but not always came together voluntarily, but a fair center smoothed such issues out.  

The second real problem is what the naughty person' IBB is purported to have said - we are intellectually lazy. Our military personnel are constantly running off to Sandhurst, our cops have to be trained by Indians or this or that country. our ministires have to go to Singapore or wherever to see how they pick their noses over there. Why can't the leaders in these institutions devise a credible training plan? But no, estacode is too juicy. Instead, we "re-brand"! If it weren't so tragic, it might actually be funny. If I were in the movie industry, I'd make a movie  -  "Ganstaland - Re-brand this"

Well said!

Intellectual laziness may have actually helped us for once; as the embassy officials said (or was it Shell) - they don't currently think there's any wattage up there among the ranks to effect one. Thank Jesus. Because, as bad as it is now, we have to endure this period of immaturity (however painful and prolonged) to get to a better democratic, functioning space. Military coups truncate that and only set us back to square one.

Nigerians and Africans in general need to realize that it is going to take many years for Africa to get a liberal democracy. As the saying goes, "Rome was not built in a day." Do people think that Europe and the United States did not go through some growing pains. It would be naive to think that the U.S., as advanced as its democracy is did not have any problems. 200 years of slavery, coupled with Jim Crow segregation that ended during the 1960s, shows that the U.S. Democracy is still quite new. Nigeria's democracy is quite young, so lets stop kidding ourselves into believing that there will be a quick fix.

Omenani:

Nigerians and Africans in general need to realize that it is going to take many years for Africa to get a liberal democracy. As the saying goes, "Rome was not built in a day." Do people think that Europe and the United States did not go through some growing pains.

It would be naive to think that the U.S., as advanced as its democracy is did not have any problems. 200 years of slavery, coupled with Jim Crow segregation that ended during the 1960s, shows that the U.S. Democracy is still quite new. Nigeria's democracy is quite young, so lets stop kidding ourselves into believing that there will be a quick fix.

But sorry, this argument is a load of crap. Not all democracies out there had to spend as long of a time as America had to, to get to where they are today. Nothing of democracy implies IT TAKES A LONG TIME. Why do we keep giving this excuse for our continued resistance to common sense?

Seriously, what reason does a nation or even a whole continent have to not do things right, right now? We have had oen form of government or another since the very beginning. Why is it OK for us to act as if we have NEVER done this before?

Ade2K8:

Intellectual laziness may have actually helped us for once; as the embassy officials said (or was it Shell) - they don't currently think there's any wattage up there among the ranks to effect one. Thank Jesus. Because, as bad as it is now, we have to endure this period of immaturity (however painful and prolonged) to get to a better democratic, functioning space. Military coups truncate that and only set us back to square one.

Hate to break it to you,democrazy will never work in this part of the world.
Socialism is our best bet. Or something that combines the best attributes of both democracy and socialism, and the only way we can have that is through Military dictatorship, like we had under IBB.

Until we face reality, our politicians will continue to rub us blind, and because of their ineptitude, we shall continue to be ruled by proxy by Shell PLC.

Although, I'd rather have Shell rule us than have some gworo chewing, babariga wearing Aboki occupy the Asorock!

Ade2K8:

Intellectual laziness may have actually helped us for once; as the embassy officials said (or was it Shell) - they don't currently think there's any wattage up there among the ranks to effect one. Thank Jesus. Because, as bad as it is now, we have to endure this period of immaturity (however painful and prolonged) to get to a better democratic, functioning space. Military coups truncate that and only set us back to square one.

I quite agree. A worst scenario than the present realities will be one in which a bunch of lunatics motivated by money throws up a silly pseudo-revolution without any deep and workable ideology behind it. It will be years of foolish bloodletting.

I propose a more subtle, non-violent ideological battle for the hearts and minds of Nigerians, something you can contribute to within your own sphere of influence till we meet up in the larger public space to push for wider changes. I'm hopeful.

Kobojunkie:

But sorry, this argument is a load of crap. Not all democracies out there had to spend as long of a time as America had to, to get to where it is today. Why do we keep giving this excuses for what seems like it is not going anywhere fast?

Seriously, what reason does a nation or even a whole continent have to not do things right, right now? We have had oen form of government or another since the very beginning. Why is it OK for us to act as if we have NEVER done this before?

I am trying to be realistic. Name one country, whose democracy is flourishing after 50 years of independence? Give me an example of one democracy that did not have to spend as long as the United States. Do not mention Europe, because democracy took hundreds of years to arise in many of these countries. In England, it took almost 800 years, when the English Nobles forced King John to sign the Magna Carta. This is not an excuse, simply saying that Nigeria, like many African nations are going through growing pains. Remember that democracy is foreign to many African cultures, who do not have a history of democracy. Only a few African groups like the Igbo practiced a form of democracy. 50 years and you are expecting magic? I dey laugh. Africa has a long way to go, before they see the development and types of democracy found in industrialized nations.

Omenani:

I am trying to be realistic. Name one country, whose democracy is flourishing after 50 years of independence? Give me an example of one democracy that did not have to spend as long as the United States. Do not mention Europe, because democracy took hundreds of years to arise in many of these countries. In England, it took almost 800 years, when the English Nobles forced King John to sign the Magna Carta.

This is not an excuse, simply saying that Nigeria, like many African nations are going through growing pains. Remember that democracy is foreign to many African cultures, who do not have a history of democracy. Only a few African groups like the Igbo practiced a form of democracy.

50 years and you are expecting magic? I dey laugh. Africa has a long way to go, before they see the development and types of democracy found in industrialized nations.

India (give or take 3 years). Do you really have a valid point to make on this? You do realize you are still loading us up with more excuses?