How Joagbaje Became God - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by DeepSight(m): 6:36pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
^^^ It is amazing that Mr. Enigma is carpeted by his own words and not my words: and yet he reverts with stories about how pointless it is discussing with me? Haba. These are YOUR words, Enigma - NOT MINE -
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| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by PastorAIO: 6:44pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
Tonye-t: Exodus 7:1 And Yahweh said unto mosheh See I have made thee an Elohim to Pharaoh and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Check out the hebrew text analysis here http://biblos.com/exodus/7-1.htm This again convinces me that when I make enough money I should commission a translation of the bible that will leave all names/nouns intact. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Enigma(m): 6:44pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
@Toba Your response is interesting and mostly accurate but the premise you give your conclusion is at best weak. I will break your post into two parts. toba: Now, you say that the judges did not have a divine nature: I agree! you say that the judges had powers to sentence: I agree. you say that this is {me: in a sense} comparable to God's ability to make unquestionable pronouncements: I agree. You say that thus in a sense, these judges are 'gods': I agree. However, always remember they are not divine! So if I say the Chief justice of Nigeria is 'god' because he has powers to sentence etc, how will you understand the word 'god' in that context? toba: Men (i.e. specifically the judges) were referred to as 'gods' in a particular and peculiar sense --- which you yourselves limited to exclude divinity and confined to powers to sentence. Now regarding the Jesus' statement ----- remember that He was deliberately quoting the Jews' own scriptures back at them: ". . . is it not written in your own law?" He was saying to them in essence 'what is the big deal you are making that I call myself God when even your own scriptures called men gods?' He was not saying that because He had a divine nature the judges or 'gods' also had a divine nature ---- and you yourself agree with this when you say that the judges did not have a divine nature. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Enigma(m): 6:47pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
Deep Sight: Your shortcoming is simple: you are not wise enough to realise that I knew the impact and import of those words before using them ---- even when that was implicit in my post. That should have told you that there is more than meets the eye. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by PastorAIO: 6:52pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
Enigma: Tonye-t: TonyeT has a good point here. And is one of the reasons that I've taken a back seat from NL. There is too much intellectualism that is ego driven. This all demonstrates to me that dissecting text and rhetorical gymnastics is just going to get you going round and round and round in endless circles. Which is not bad if that is what you are into. But it it the stench of egotism that accompanies it that is particularly appalling. Now before I start pointing fingers let me raise my hand and confess that I fell into this trap too. I don't know at which point it started but I found myself deeply in it. that is why I've withdrawn from a lot of discussions. Mainly for my own spiritual welfare. It is one thing if it is light hearted fun but it is another thing when it just leaves you with a headache in the end. These debates do not edify us in any way. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by vescucci(m): 6:54pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
Lol. Nuke cracks me up as usual. I dunno who's the more neutron absorbing between Joagbaje and Deep Sight. I don't know the history of Nuclearboy's dissatisfaction with Joagbaje's God/god complex but with the tiny bit I've seen here, I'll have to disagree with Nuke. Joagbaje can only be accused of over-zealousness and making a big deal outta nothing. This thread is a witch hunt. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by DeepSight(m): 6:54pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
Enigma: ^^^ *sigh* Much too advanced and holier-than-thou to condescend to offer a simple explanation of what otherwise appears a wholesale concession on your part. Perhaps I should soon adopt your condescending attitude: for if you will make such blatantly contradictory remarks and consider yourself too exalted to offer a reasonable explanation, then perhaps it is apt that I also decide not to respond to your illogicalities. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Enigma(m): 6:59pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
@ Pastor AIO I see your point; but remember you can only assume a person's motive ----- you cannot fully know what drives them to certain position. Until recently, I would simply avoid Deep Sight's posts altogether for very good reason (which I will not state now due to his own expressed remorse). In the same manner, I generally try to avoid responding to some posters {as well as some snooty attitudes towards Christian doctrine} because I find greater peace that way. I find that when Deep Sight goes into his "conclusive conclusion" mode, it is better to leave him to it. It may come across to third parties as arrogance but I am at peace for I have my reasons. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by PastorAIO: 6:59pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
Deep Sight: With an explanation he ceases to be an enigma. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Enigma(m): 7:02pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
^^ Haha and I have just offered part explanation; should have remained inscrutable! Deep Sight: Honestly, the day you show a better attitude to Christian doctrine as well as a genuine desire to understand, rather than to undermine based on very weak knowledge, the day you will see a less condescending attitude from me.  |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by PastorAIO: 7:03pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
Enigma: I can't tell what your basic motivations are, you're right. Another point that I want to make is that it seems that Joagbaje has become the punching bag for the forum's christians. When anyone gets cast in such a mold it becomes difficult to appreciate them even when they in fact actually make good points or are right (as rare as such situations may be). |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by MyJoe: 7:05pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
Pastor AIO:Thank you. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Enigma(m): 7:06pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
@ pastor AIO True, and I have commended Joagbaje on one or two points in the past (I'm pretty sure, going by memory); only, he is quite exasperating! |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by DeepSight(m): 7:12pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
^^^ All true guys. But lets focus the discussion a bit - Biblically - the notion that man is made in the image of God - as well as several other references to the nature of man surely support the notion that man is at least "a god" of sorts. In this, I still await Enigma's response to my question - Can you please define what the term "god" or "gods" means for you and examples of such entities. Additionally, if you can manage it, please indicate if such beings which are "gods" are higher or lower placed than human spirits in creation. Now, the bible aside - is it not philosophically apt to deem the sentient nature of the human being as being a cast-form of the ultimate sentience - God - and as such is it really reprehensible to posit that there are attributes of ultimate sentience (God) which are necessarily reflected in human sentience, thus logically supporting the notion that. . . ye are gods . . .? |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by aletheia(m): 8:16pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
At topic: #1. I noticed a lot of cavilling about god and God: But the original Hebrew does not make any distinction between god and God. The upper-case is an English(and Greek) convention to distinguish between the True God and other pretenders #2. The word play in Ps 82:1 becomes evident when we consider the Hebrew: God standeth in the congregation of the mighty he judgeth among the gods(KJV) 82:1 Hebrew OT: Westminster Leningrad Codex[size=16pt] מִזְמֹ֗ור לְאָ֫סָ֥ף אֱֽלֹהִ֗ים נִצָּ֥ב בַּעֲדַת־אֵ֑ל בְּקֶ֖רֶב אֱלֹהִ֣ים יִשְׁפֹּֽט׃[/size] An analysis of the words: [table] [tr][td]אֱֽלֹהִ֗ים[/td][td]elohim[/td][td]God[/td][/tr] [tr][td]נִצָּ֥ב[/td][td]nitzav[/td][td]takes[/td][/tr] [tr][td]בַּעֲדַת־[/td][td]baadat[/td][td]congregation[/td][/tr] [tr][td]אֵ֑ל[/td][td]el[/td][td]God[/td][/tr] [tr][td]בְּקֶ֖רֶב[/td][td]bekerev[/td][td]the midst[/td][/tr] [tr][td]אֱלֹהִ֣ים[/td][td]elohim[/td][td]gods[/td][/tr] [tr][td]יִשְׁפֹּֽט׃[/td][td]yishpot[/td][td]judges[/td][/tr] [/table] YLT does renders the literal sense of the verse. YLT: Psalms 82:1.A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge. Consulting the dictionary shows us the 4 meanings of the word elohim: 430 'elohiym el-o-heem' plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:--angels So context determines what elohim means. Unfortunately the various nuances of this word are lost in translation. What the 82th Psalm is therefore saying is clearly shown by the YLT: Moreover that the gods (elohim) being judged is men (magistrates) is clear when we consider the verses that follow. It is not a justification to say that men are gods (as it is rendered in English). #3. The incident in John 10: KJV: John 10:33-36. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? What proponents of the I am god mantra fail to see is that[i] Ps 82 is not about them but about Jesus[/i]---it is a Messianic Psalm that shows that Jesus is God in much the same way as Ps 2 and 45; Station themselves do kings of the earth, And princes have been united together, Against Jehovah, and against His Messiah: Let us draw off Their cords, And cast from us Their thick bands.' He who is sitting in the heavens doth laugh, The Lord doth mock at them. Then doth He speak unto them in His anger, And in His wrath He doth trouble them: And I--I have anointed My King, Upon Zion--My holy hill.' I declare concerning a statute: Jehovah said unto me, `My Son Thou art , I to-day have brought thee forth. Ask of Me and I give nations--thy inheritance, And thy possession--the ends of earth. Thou dost rule them with a sceptre of iron, As a vessel of a potter Thou dost crush them.' And now, O kings, act wisely, Be instructed, O judges of earth (YLT) Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. In fact Ps 82 closely parallels Ps 2. The Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy because He said, I am the Son of God; so he directed them to the scripture in Ps 82 that spoke of Him; God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge (YLT). #4. This is just the original lie repeated again in a "Christianized" way: Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Sure they became as gods and they died. Exactly the verdict that God pronounces in Ps 82:6-7: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Enigma(m): 8:20pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
@ Toba You might find the two following links helpful; they are both relatively short and easy enough reads. http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/yegods.htm (even though apparently written by a Oneness pentecostal) http://exiledpreacher..com/2006/12/partakers-of-divine-nature-part-1.html (even though apparently written by an "exiled preacher" ) |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Enigma(m): 8:23pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
@ aletheia Or that if one even uses a basic concordance, one can see that even the pagan goddess Ashtoreth (among other people and things) is referred to as elohim! |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by aletheia(m): 8:25pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
^^But that is discouraged nah. . .because "the letter killeth"  |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Enigma(m): 8:28pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
Na wah oh!  |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by nuclearboy(m): 9:30pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
My motive for this thread is what seems to be called into question. Sincerely, I wanted him to come out and tell us his understanding of this "godship" and I have found (as I suspected with most of them) he apparently doesn't have a clue. Thus he's somewhere furiously leafing through the ROR manuals searching for the pages and statements that relate to his being a god that will not make him the usual butt of teaching from all and sundry. You guys might not get it but it is exasperating to have people speaking for you who know as it were, less than nothing and for whom, talk is business. And I will not take this back - this delusion of "godship" seems profitable to some who support it at any cost even when its effect is counter-productive even to the desire of the "deludee"! BTW, I wonder why Pastor_AIO used the term "the forum's Christians" when refering to those who have Joagbaje as punching bag. That singular sentence tells his status amongst Christians. I would state it thus - Joagbaje is to christianity what Abuzola is to CHRISTIANITY - all words deliberate! |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Nobody: 9:58pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
Enigma:interesting, i would have loved to extensively deal with this issue,but my chance this wk is deemed. Im starting a prof exam tommorrow in Yaba tech for a whole wk. I hope chance permits soon,cos now i can only be making short posts |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by newmi(m): 11:03pm On Sep 13, 2010 |
hey! if the lower cased letter 'g' was used other than the upper cased 'G' for the word God inasmuch as the realm of the spirit is in no way sensitive or attaches any bit of significance to letter casing, all these idea of upper case and lower case only exist in the realms of men for the benefit of easy understanding. Angels don't need that, neither do demons require that aid to inference the difference that would be mundane. if the claims of being verse and competent in issues regarding the bible by the people who are critizing this proclamation by joagbaje is anything to give credence to then they should know enough to blindly disagree with joagbaje's claimes Psalms 82:6-7 6 ¶ I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Even Jesus Christ Himself reaffirmed this truth John 10:34-35 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by PastorAIO: 12:21am On Sep 14, 2010 |
There would be a lot less confusion if in bible translations El was left as El, Yahweh was left as Yahweh, and Elohim was left as Elohim. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Tonyet1(m): 9:24am On Sep 14, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: Now am humbled by this guy's comment. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by Joagbaje(m): 7:52pm On Sep 14, 2010 |
I'm surprised a thread has to be opened for me on this. The issue of a Christian being a god is so simple. Being a god does not mean you have taken over Gods position. A god is a judge , administrator and enforcer on the earth. We enforce the will of almighty God on earth as his children. Satan became the god of this world through Adams fall. He stole adamic power. Adam delivered his authority to Satan through satan subtility. Look at the audacity with which he spoke to christ. Luke 4:6-7 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. Who delivered it to him ? Adam. What kind of authority ? "Deity" 2 Corinthians 4:4 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Christ has paid the price for mans restoration. And secondly a chritian has received Gods nature of "divinity" . So a Christian being a god is simply an expression of God the father through him. He is not trying to arrogate to himself what is not his. The word of God is God . If his word comes in you it makes you a god. John 10:35 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; We as Christian are born of the same word of God. "As he is , so are we" same nature. The Essence of Christian growth is to get to the place we can manifest his fulness which is our destiny. And grow up INTO HIM. Ephesians 4:15 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head,[ even] Christ: Ephesians 4:13 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: I don't need to get into too much details here we have dealt with this on the thread on "faith" But my question is " why is it easier to accept that Satan became god and yet hard to accept that God children whom he stole from are gods? Exodus 7:1 1 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by InesQor(m): 8:20pm On Sep 14, 2010 |
subscribing |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by aletheia(m): 8:45pm On Sep 14, 2010 |
Joagbaje:^^As always the plain unvarnished scripture must speak for itself not the interpretations we try to impose on it. Indeed one of the hallmarks of the Antichrist spirit is this: KJV: II Thessalonians 2:4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. But the word of God to us is plain no matter how men may seek to twist it to justify their false doctrines: KJV: I Corinthians 8:5-6. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. No matter how you try to spiel it; to us (Disciples of Jesus Christ) there is but one god. Simple. Even if other men proclaim themselves gods. "There is no sense in which. . .the ontological distinction between God and the creature has been abolished in the gospel." Joagbaje:^^Please answer these questions: who are the "them" that God is speaking to? Is it Christians? Who was Christ speaking to? Was it Pharisees? Joagbaje:^^I'm afraid you misapply the scripture: that he is described as the "god of this world" doesn't equate to "Satan became god." Why then does the term "false god" exist? I am sure he's chortling with glee at your post for that was ever his ambition: to be god. KJV: Ezek 28:2. Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: KJV: Isa 14:14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Joagbaje:^^Scripture interprets scripture: Exodus 4:16 explains the sense of 7:1. KJV: Exod 4:16. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by nuclearboy(m): 9:24pm On Sep 14, 2010 |
Joagbaje: Why are you suprised? You ASKED (infact practically pleaded to be recognised) if we didn't want to know how you became god! Joagbaje: Is 44:6 - "This is what the Lord says - Israels King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and the last; apart from me there is no God". Not on earth, in heaven, in chris embassy or anyplace God created! Joagbaje: Scriptural references please? AND HOW DO YOU ENFORCE THEM? Joagbaje: Aletheia has cancelled this rubbish you posted. Joagbaje: When Christ said these words you so eloquently quote, he added something - "Do NOT believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father" Jhn 10: 37 & 38 We believe Christ, who are you and why are your own works not the same? He loosed bonds, set captives free. You bind heavy burdens on men and think its about claiming stuff! Na mouth?  Joagbaje: Lets accept for a moment that satan actually was some sort of "god" which we know was false from Is 44 above. He at least exercised a modicum of authority by lying, scheming, manipulating! Is it those same practises you've honed and practice limited to CE that are making you feel "goddish"? Listen, all power belongs to Christ, not Joagbaje! You can't even earn a living without chris oyakilome for Christ's sake and you call yourself a "god" exercising "judgement", "administering and enforcing" delusions in Chris Embassy! Joagbaje: I told you before - its this Moses thing thats worrying you but that priesthood has been abolished. Come into the new covenant - Christ is the only High Priest (as painful as that may be to you). Stop looking at yourself like Joshua following Moses (oyakilome). Anyway, Aletheia has also stamped out this rubbish. |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by InesQor(m): 10:24pm On Sep 14, 2010 |
There are figures of speech in the Bible. When God said he made Moses a god to Pharaoh where Aaron was that god's prophet, he used a rich metaphor. All civilizations including Egyptians had false gods whose supposed actions spoke louder than their silence, where their priests covered up for their silence. Moses had a mission &Aaron was his mouthpiece. In essence, Moses presented a form that Pharaoh could relate with. And you really need to be able to appreciate sarcasm to see what Jesus meant when he quoted David at the Pharisees. David in turn spoke of men who had authority in other people's lives, abused it, and died like those were ought to help. Another rich metaphor, manifesting timelessly through the ages. The Scriptures are lovely. Ok now really whether u capitalize the g in God, or you dont, in essence its one and the same person. Any abstraction corruptly generated by men, is a false god. A mirage. Also, I believe a false god only exists because it is being worshipped. If all men cease to worship a god, it cant self sustain. It would cease to be a (false) god. Only GOD is self-existent, the I AM. I believe even Lucifer, first of them, had those angels who fell with him. Those that propelled his vain, as it happens in pride. So then 2 questions. Since Joagbaje is not GOD (thankfully), is he (not) a false god? And so who's worshipping him and made him a god? |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by newmi(m): 12:26am On Sep 15, 2010 |
l just have a simple question for those who claim to be erudite bible aquitance The bible reveals to us how that we as christians have been begotten in Christ Jesus by God- John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. For clearity, the grk word translated "sons" here is the word "teknon", which means child be it son or daughter it means "-as produced by" thus the christian by virtue of his trust and believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour is such been "as produced by God" Genesis 1:26-27 26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. God choose to make man in His own Image and likeness i.e man to look like him and function in the semblance of His similitude. Romans 8 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father Galasians 4: 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Galasians 3 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 1John 3 1 ¶ Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. The question of the christian being "god" is not in any respect to him taking God's place, its only a religious mind that would think that that the Pharisees, Sadusees and Scribes who lived in the days of Jesus. For instance nobody ever spoke like Jesus, He spoke differently at one instance in John 8:23 He made one of the profound statements l have ever heard- [i]Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Joh 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.[/i] it is in actual sense the christian functioning like God in character and personality thus having experiences that are consistent with with his origin (God) l just have a simple question for those who claim to be erudite bible aquitance the upspring of a goat is a "dog" se bi, or perhaps the upspring of a Lion is called a "Tiger"? if not then the upspring of God is called what ", ", let a brave gentle man kindly fill the blank space |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by newmi(m): 12:43am On Sep 15, 2010 |
Staying with the light of the "intent" of this thread, l would kindly endeavour to simply answer the simple question the thread seem to seek to know which is "How Joagbaje Became God", well from all l have explained on my last post, if Joagbaje is a christian by virtue of his confessed trust and believe in the Lordship and saving grace of Jesus Christ according to John 1 2 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. then Joagbaje "Became God" the moment he acknowledged Christ Jesus as his Lord and Personal saviour period!!! that brings this thread to a close, thank you |
| Re: How Joagbaje Became God by PastorAIO: 3:13am On Sep 15, 2010 |
thenk q o. molto gracie. o se pupo. can we bring this thread to a close now. |
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