plaetton:
My point exactly. You replace something old and redundant with something new and improved, especially in this case where the new nullified most of the old.
This is ok for humans, but for a perfect omno omni god, it's qsite suspicious and disappointing. It means that mini mini steady could see beyour his nose that his first testament would not stand the test time and was doomed to failure. As a matter of fact, it seems that his second testament or dispensation has also failed given that it has fractured into a thousand mangled and confusing pieces.
This thread is a testament to that fact.

There is never a place in the old testament that God said that the old testament is the complete and final books but in the new testament you ll see where we are asked not to add any other thing to what is written. Showing that its the final. God's plan was still in the process in the old testament but was completed in the new testament when Jesus came. That we are debating and arguing over the bible is not God's fault. It is purely human defficencies and it happens in every issue of life. We all don't have the same opinion about issues in life generally.

shdemidemi:

The Old Testament means old covenant, we are under a new covenant with God now at the death of Jesus. We are not saved by the same gospel that saved Abraham, neither are we saved by the gospel that saved Israel, we are saved by the gospel of Christ in this dispensation.

Hebrews 8

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Aha! dis fella doesnt pay tithe.

plaetton:
My point exactly. You replace something old and redundant with something new and improved, especially in this case where the new nullified most of the old.
This is ok for humans, but for a perfect omno omni god, it's qsite suspicious and disappointing. It means that mini mini steady could see beyour his nose that his first testament would not stand the test time and was doomed to failure. As a matter of fact, it seems that his second testament or dispensation has also failed given that it has fractured into a thousand mangled and confusing pieces.
This thread is a testament to that fact.

Deut 29
29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Col 1
26 Even the mystery (secrets) which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

bizmahn: @Alex, I agree 100%.But frosbel's case is peculiar.His subtle disguised steel hard arrogance while hiding behind believer derailing heresies as beliefs is baffling.Yet at the same time labeling wellmeaning rebutable men of God & churches like deeper life & apostolic faith as occult just because of minor shortfalls in teachings done in ignorance.Moreover you can evidently see many people he has derailed from truth with so called freedom gospel (Freedom to sin with nothing to loose).

Now in business, if you keep trying out a strategy that does not yield profit over and over, you ll end up losing totally. I always evaluate my strategies in business to be sure its yielding the desired fruits. If it is not, then I ve got to change strategy. We have traded accusations upon accusations on each other here which have not yielded any good fruit rather bad feelings towards one another and name calling. If we say we are going to heaven with such mindset then it wont work. Our main focus here is Jesus. Yes we can disagree with frosbel over some issues but let's do it lovingly. If he chooses to continue to make derogatory comment on our churches or pastors(which I doubt he will) then that's up to him. Do your own part of showing him love. Remember love is what brought about the salvation you and I are enjoying today. John 3:16 - "for God so LOVE the world....". We must not neglect the foundation of our redemption. Again Hebrews 12:14 says "follow peace with ALL men(not some men) and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord". Pls keep this in mind in whatever you are doing so as not to lose focus. Disagree in teachings you find not convincing but do it in love. We can't also say that all the teachings of frosbel are wrong. There are the ones that are really good which I ve also learnt from. Some of his observations about my church and Deeper life etc are actually true but my problem with him is the manner he is going about it. I would ve prefered he does it more lovingly than he is doing it so that it will yield better fruit. Honestly, I reasoned over some of his observations about our practices and has been trying to educate the minds of brethren who are just doing these things out of ignorance and things are getting better. For example, why should our members feel that we are more holy and knows the bible more than others? THIS IS VERY WRONG. Another thing I learnt from him is that it is better to spend money on poor brethren than spending hugely on church building. Infact, earlier this year we went on a retreat in one of our state headquarters and we saw a gigantic building they were building apart from the one they already have. People were praising their effort and I simply said that in my opinion, I would ve prefered using the money spent in this gigantic building to help the poor while they build a simple church that will cost less. One of the ministers replied me by saying that Mary magdalene used a costly ointment to rub Jesus and that people around made the same comment I made about using the money to support the poor. I told him that the body of Christ today is the brethren and not church building. So its still the same thing am saying that we should spend money on the body of Christ(which is the brethren) than the church building. Jesus is coming to rapture human beings and not building. By the time I finished, everybody around us agreed with my observation. This discussion was done lovingly, not as people fighting as we do here and you can see it yielded good result. We can actually learn from each other irrespective of our disagreements but we must humble ourselves and operate with LOVE. It is a command that Jesus gave to us to love one another, love your neighbour, love your enemies, love, love and love. Rebuke when neccessary but do it with love. God bless you.

frosbel:


I refuse to submit to you and your Nebuchadnezzars -

Not a good reply. Change style bros. I believe you can do better than this. God bless you.

What is what use to happen to an unwilling tenant when a landlord give him quit notice. Whatsoever that was not build on the foundation of truth will not stand the test of time. Church and mosque are tenants in Africa and the must go.

alexleo:

Now in business, if you keep trying out a strategy that does not yield profit over and over ....... Rebuke when neccessary but do it with love. God bless you.

-
Agreed & accepted.Love principle is required.And there is still love when a caring dad spanks or disciplines his obstinate child though he's bitter that moment.On thorough examination frosbel type of gospel will drag multitudes to eternal destruction & he leaves no room of possibly being wrong somewhere like any genuine christian will.Paul did not go soft on fellows that tried to corrupt the gospel.Satan last day strategy is not outright lies as before.He tells some truth & channel it to subtle lies that will nullify that truth & lead to destruction.Same does frosbel.Honestly it's wrong to count him a christian by these attributes.But however I agree love is key.Thanks

bizmahn:
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Agreed & accepted.Love principle is required.And there is still love when a caring dad spanks or disciplines his obstinate child though he's bitter that moment.On thorough examination frosbel type of gospel will drag multitudes to eternal destruction & he leaves no room of possibly being wrong somewhere like any genuine christian will.Paul did not go soft on fellows that tried to corrupt the gospel.Satan last day strategy is not outright lies as before.He tells some truth & channel it to subtle lies that will nullify that truth & lead to destruction.Same does frosbel.Honestly it's wrong to count him a christian by these attributes.But however I agree love is key.Thanks

Thanks dear. Also while praying for yourself, remember frosbel in your prayers too that God should perfect his ways. That's part of the act of love. Also pray for me that the Lord should perfect my ways. That I may not be ashamed to stand before Him on the day of His glorious appearing. God bless you.

Let me also make this point. What I pointed out in chosen is just an anormally that I feel shouldn't be part of our practice as christians. This does not in any way make Chosen church a fake church. All churches and individuals have their errors. We keep dealing with these things while on earth until we get to heaven where we ll be perfect.

alexleo:
remember frosbel in your prayers too that God should perfect his ways. That's part of the act of love.

Prayer for frosbel is for genuine salvation first of all before perfection.Yes, let us pray.

alexleo: Let me also make this point. What I pointed out in chosen is just an anormally that I feel shouldn't be part of our practice as christians. This does not in any way make Chosen church a fake church. All churches and individuals have their errors. We keep dealing with these things while on earth until we get to heaven where we ll be perfect.

Agreed and I too, failed to mention that Pastor Lazarus Muoka does not particularly preach praying for enemies to die or run mad rather that they should repent.Its easy to confirm this.
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It is mainly those pastors & members that crossed over to chosen from Mountain of fire (MFM) that have been pushing this enemy die approach which is nearly taking over the church now.The Chosen is a very very young church & filled with many pastors that are not really learned & have very poor knowlegde of scriptures.
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Pastor Muoka preaches sinless sanctity vigorously with result that no ministry has really ever recorded the number of prostitutes,hardened criminals & sinners publicly confessing,repenting & preaching with zeal.
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There is minimum requirement here on earth before we can ever make heaven.It is complete VICTORY OVER WILFUL SIN i.e the things God has shown an individual clearly in His word or by his spirit & our conscience too bearing witness that they constitute sin or disobedience to God.

bizmahn:

Prayer for frosbel is for genuine salvation first of all before perfection.Yes, let us pray.

Not many of us go round boasting about our salvation experience, and not many of us are presumptuous or arrogant like you to question the salvation of anyone for that matter. Only GOD knows those who are really his.

Besides, you seem to be so sure that your Pastor Lazarus Muoka is 100% infallible and holy, I suggest you follow JESUS , then you can never go wrong.

thanks.

frosbel:


Not many of us go round boasting about our salvation experience, and not many of us are presumptuous or arrogant like you to question the salvation of anyone for that matter. Only GOD knows those who are really his.

Besides, you seem to be so sure that your Pastor Lazarus Muoka is 100% infallible and holy, I suggest you follow JESUS , then you can never go wrong.

thanks.

You are not following JESUS.I have willingly decided to ignore you in response to requests to forbear, but don't count it as disability.Though I'm very busy, I can make it a full time occupation to expose you.So beware.

bizmahn:
You are not following JESUS.I have willing decided to ignore you in response to requests to forbear, but don't count it as disability.Though I'm very busy, I can make it a full time occupation to expose you.So beware.

The TRUTH ( word of GOD ), is always brave in the face of opposition.

Please do expose me, and I will use the scripture not Pastor this or that, to debunk your myths and educate you.

So far , you are a follower of MEN , my advice to you is to start reading your bible for yourself , though I will not be so presumptuous as to question your salvation or relationship with Christ.

Thanks.

frosbel:

The TRUTH ( word of GOD ), is always brave in the face of opposition.

Please do expose me, and I will use the scripture not Pastor this or that, to debunk your myths and educate you.

So far , you are a follower of MEN , my advice to you is to start reading your bible for yourself , though I will not be so presumptuous as to question your salvation or relationship with Christ.

Thanks.

Are you also willing that I expose you? Let me know if you're up for it.

OLAADEGBU:

Are you also willing that I expose you? Let me know if you're up for it.

wonders will never end, a cult member exposing others

alexleo: I went to see my elder sister and her hubby on tuesday evening. As I was there, a church(Lord's Chosen) on their street was holding a service and the speakers blasting around the area(as usual among Nigerian churches). I was baffled to hear the leading minister telling them to pray against all their enemies, that madness and poverty should befall them and their children's children up to their fourth generation. Come and hear the volume of prayers. What sort of rubbish is going on in churches? Now when they started singing, here are the words of their song- "the God of my pastor's power, answer me". This really got me worried and sad. Is this what Jesus said we should do? Brethren how do we arrest this ugly developments in the end time church? Things are getting out of hand. Meanwhile Jesus is coming soon.

Thats rubbish and its how religion is today... what if the god of their pastor is an idol... rubbish and ignorant people.

italo: What's wrong with that? I thought you were of the opinion that anybody can interpret the Christian faith any way they please. That's their own interpretation. Why do you declare it "bad?" Who made you a judge or authority over them?

it is Bad dude... there pastor is not recorded in the bible like elijah and others assuring us that his God is YHWH... what if his god is idol?

benalvino:

it is Bad dude... there pastor is not recorded in the bible like elijah and others assuring us that his God is YHWH... what if his god is idol?

Well, that's what you get if you believe every Christian has a right to interpret the faith in his own way.

Who then decides who is right or wrong?

italo:

Well, that's what you get if you believe every Christian has a right to interpret the faith in his own way.

Who then decides who is right or wrong?

I guess the Roman catholic fathers have the best interpretation!!! what do you think?

olodo

italo:

Well, that's what you get if you believe every Christian has a right to interpret the faith in his own way.

Who then decides who is right or wrong?

thats why you choose... do the right thing. test the spirit...

benalvino:

thats why you choose... do the right thing. test the spirit...

So how can you condemn a group that might have tested the spirit and are doing the right thing in their own eyes?

frosbel:

wonders will never end, a cult member exposing others

shdemidemi:

I guess the Roman catholic fathers have the best interpretation!!! what do you think?

Good teacher, you have said so.

alexleo:

Yeah I believe. I don't have a rigid stand about tithe since after our extensive discussions on it here. However, I choose to continue tithing since I am not convinced to stop it but I don't condemn those who don't rather as they are led too, let them do. I always take things I hear or read to God in prayer and ask him to guide my acceptance or rejection according to his will and God has been faithful. Even when I seem to be rigid, God keeps bringing back a message in various forms till I understand it fully and accept it. But the one I am not convinced to accept I leave it. One thing I ve always known is that I ll stand before the judgement throne of God alone that's why after receiving a teaching I take it to God(who will judge me at last) to guide me properly about it. My ultimate desire is to please God and make heaven at last. If you people can calm down and we keep studying the scriptures as students, not as all-knowing masters, we will all benefit from each other by God's grace. The bashing and mudslinging we are doing here is simply a tool of distraction by the enemy, fashioned to make us lose our focus which is Jesus and being with him forever at the end. Hebrew 12:2- looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.
Thanks dear.

thank u bro. Jst praying frobel takes ths advice

italo:

Good teacher, you have said so.

Chei bros you, you did a wuruwuru in quoting him, hence the wuruwuru reply you gave him . I know that the reason behind all your replies to this thread is not about Chosen church but all about defending your Catholic church. Hmmmmmmm.....I hope they ll make you a night or knight after all this defence you are doing for them?

italo:

So how can you condemn a group that might have tested the spirit and are doing the right thing in their own eyes?

thats why worshiping the queen of heaven is right in your eyes... because some group test it and you made your trust on what they tested... may God help you see that he didnt appoint any queen in heaven

alexleo:

Chei bros you, you did a wuruwuru in quoting him, hence the wuruwuru reply you gave him . I know that the reason behind all your replies to this thread is not about Chosen church but all about defending your Catholic church. Hmmmmmmm.....I hope they ll make you a night or knight after all this defence you are doing for them?

The reason I got on this thread is to highlight your hypocrisy.

You claim to believe everyone has a right to interpret the faith his own way. Then you assume a position of authority over people practising the faith in their own way.

That is hypocrisy.

benalvino:

thats why worshiping the queen of heaven is right in your eyes... because some group test it and you made your trust on what they tested... may God help you see that he didnt appoint any queen in heaven

Do you want to impose your interpretation on me now?

What if I tested the spirit and saw that God appointed Mary as Queen of heaven...and God thinks its good for us to honour her and seek her maternal love and intercession?

italo:

Do you want to impose your interpretation on me now?

What if I tested the spirit and saw that God appointed Mary as Queen of heaven...and God thinks its good for us to honour her and seek her maternal love and intercession?

when testing for temperature you have to use a thermometer... but you are using a speedometer to test temperature that's your problem...

you turn marry to mediator, you make her Queen, You believe God is a trinity which is Good... then you believe marry is the mother of God... setting her above God... Cause she is the mother of the father, son and holy spirit... after God said no one should worship him through carved image... you guys went and do the opposite...

you Call marry mother anything in Heaven. All i see you are using the wrong tool to test.

benalvino:

when testing for temperature you have to use a thermometer... but you are using a speedometer to test temperature that's your problem...

you turn marry to mediator, you make her Queen, You believe God is a trinity which is Good... then you believe marry is the mother of God... setting her above God... Cause she is the mother of the father, son and holy spirit... after God said no one should worship him through carved image... you guys went and do the opposite...

you Call marry mother anything in Heaven. All i see you are using the wrong tool to test.

But I think I'm testing with the right tool.

Who then has positioned you to condemn me and the people cursing their enemies by fire?

How are we to decide who is right and/or wrong?

Are you the one to decide?

italo:

But I think I'm testing with the right tool.

Who then has positioned you to condemn me and the people cursing their enemies by fire?

How are we to decide who is right and/or wrong?

Are you the one to decide?

Who told you am condemning you? am only telling you the truth. and you think but you dont know...
am i stoning you because of that? or am i shunning you? we all are ministers i have just ministered to you